EPTThe phoenix build time just means get that ovie in their base to see if they are going stargate (sacrificing if needed) and get your lair a little early. I don't think it really changed pvz too much.
ZvP Changes Post 1.2? - Page 10
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HyDrO-NP-
United States56 Posts
The phoenix build time just means get that ovie in their base to see if they are going stargate (sacrificing if needed) and get your lair a little early. I don't think it really changed pvz too much. | ||
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TypeFake
United States121 Posts
Robo builds still seem like the best build for cost effectiveness against all races. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:06 arnold(soTa) wrote: when has mutalisks NOT been a harassment unit???? they have never beaten any unitcomp that could shoot up the air in a straight fight...they are not supposed to (not claiming that they should) they did / do against protoss in a large number with +2 attack upgrade | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:01 PiLoKo wrote: You could also kill them all with help of an Infestor. you cant kite corrupters with phoenixes, its not doable. Yes phoenixes are way faster than corrupters. but corrupters are practiclly imune to phoenixfire with their armor armored-type and very high hp. Look at the way julyzerg dealt with the phoenxiopening was very intressting, he opened up with a very quick spire and went corrupters and then made the switch to hydras when collosus was less than desireable because of all the corrupters with upgrades already out on the field. in short, corrupters may not be a hard counter (retarded term btw) but its a very good response to phoenixes _if_ you manage to get that spire up before he can wreck to much havoc in your base... | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:06 arnold(soTa) wrote: and mutalisks were always countered by 2gate phoenix, just not if you start your stargates after you notices mutas out on the field That's kind of the point. What if colossi didn't counter hydras if you built your robotics bay after you saw hydras on the field? Protoss had relatively limited scouting options at the period in the game when the spire was being built. It was virtually impossible to get 2 gates up before you actually saw mutas on the field, so it was totally BS that spamming mutas would counter 2star phoenix if the stargates weren't constructed until the mutas were out. Why do you think 6gate was so popular? It was just too difficult to anticipate mutas and respond in time. It was way better to just try and end the game before the unstoppable muta deathball got to critical mass and you couldn't ever leave your base. I think it was absolutely ridiculous that even if a protoss player was able to fend of harassment with stalkers he could still lose to mass muta while pumping their counter unit out of 2 stargates. | ||
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Warlock-X
Canada37 Posts
On January 14 2011 03:16 PulseSUI wrote: this is actualy wrong. a chronoboost does not double the production speed (100% -> 200%), it adds 50% to the production speed (100% -> 150%). a single chroboost only shaves of 6 seconds from a research/unit. a chronoboosted Phoenix takes now 29 ingame seconds, not 25 seconds. Hi you seemed to have failed basic math. 200% of 20 seconds is 40 seconds. 150% of 20 seconds is 30 seconds. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:12 arnold(soTa) wrote: you cant kite corrupters with phoenixes, its not doable. it's more difficult than some other kiting situations but it's still possible since shields regenerate faster than zerg health | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:21 Warlock-X wrote: Hi you seemed to have failed basic math. 200% of 20 seconds is 40 seconds. 150% of 20 seconds is 30 seconds. What does that have to do with his post? He's talking about speed and you give some figures for time. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:21 Drowsy wrote: That's kind of the point. What if colossi didn't counter hydras if you built your robotics bay after you saw hydras on the field? Protoss had relatively limited scouting options at the period in the game when the spire was being built. It was virtually impossible to get 2 gates up before you actually saw mutas on the field, so it was totally BS that spamming mutas would counter 2star phoenix if the stargates weren't constructed until the mutas were out. Why do you think 6gate was so popular? It was just too difficult to anticipate mutas and respond in time. It was way better to just try and end the game before the unstoppable muta deathball got to critical mass and you couldn't ever leave your base. I think it was absolutely ridiculous that even if a protoss player was able to fend of harassment with stalkers he could still lose to mass muta while pumping their counter unit out of 2 stargates. it was never close to impossible to get two stargates out before spire, dont know where that gem came from. stargate tech isnt a loss either if Z doesnt go mutas, phoenixes and voidrays are super good vs zerg even if he goes the straight counter (hydras) because he will lose mapcontrol, all overlords will be shot down that are outside his mainbase and he will be contained in a similair manner in which protosses are against mass mutas... only close to the end of the last patch did the good tosses really start to abuse stargate tech against zerg and it clearly showed good promise-> then blizzard goes and gives BOTH phoenixes and voidrays a buff, even temporarily removing fungals ability to hit air ..blizzard WOW. close call. Imo stargate tech is the best choice against zerg, because hydras are such an investment for such a defesive unit, especially considering how TERRIBLE they are off creep. mounting any sort of spontaneous attack or counter attack with them is practiclly impossible, hit'n'running/microing them, withdrawing is impossible, they are a A-move unit off creep basiclly. the best thing about going stargate tech is you pre-empt spire to so hard, it forces zerg down this narrow easily countered techpath we dont want to go...little bit of rant but your post confused me....... | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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DIRESTRAIT
Canada155 Posts
 . The change IMO is mostly voiced by people that used mutalisks in their comps alot. | ||
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bramapanzer
83 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:12 arnold(soTa) wrote: you cant kite corrupters with phoenixes, its not doable. Yes phoenixes are way faster than corrupters. but corrupters are practiclly imune to phoenixfire with their armor armored-type and very high hp. Look at the way julyzerg dealt with the phoenxiopening was very intressting, he opened up with a very quick spire and went corrupters and then made the switch to hydras when collosus was less than desireable because of all the corrupters with upgrades already out on the field. in short, corrupters may not be a hard counter (retarded term btw) but its a very good response to phoenixes _if_ you manage to get that spire up before he can wreck to much havoc in your base... It definitely is possible to kite corrupters with phoenixes (phoenixi? whats the plural form of phoenix...) Phoenix is faster and can shoot while moving, corrupters need to stop to shoot, although they do have longer range. But since the phoenix is faster and can shoot while moving, it can kite the corrupters across the map. The corrupters don't HAVE to follow, but they won't get any kills either, so I don't see how corrupters are a good solution to phoenixes EDIT: I'm trying to get into your head here so I may be on the wrong track, but are you thinking of using a cpl corrupters are each expo and using them as mobile spore crawlers? I assumed you wanted to kill the phoenixs, not just stop harassment, which corrupters would do. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
2. 2 Gate Zealot Rush (make 2nd gate before Core or Gas), always makes a great wall off for your natural too when they try to Baneling Bust or all in Ling you and gives you the ability to pressure/force Roaches or Spines in a FFE build. 3. SURPRISE! Two Stargate Phoenix Harass while they frantically make Hydralisks and/or Spore Crawlers 4. Meanwhile, take third Base while making Colossus/Voidray. Two Star Voids along with Cannons and Warpgate reinforcements should be quite enough to stop any kind of Roach bust. 5. Zerg death sometime later... make sure to have good macro and get lots of upgrades as well as add Stalkers to your unit composition to stop Corruptors. Recipe for success in 1.2 PvZ (Coming soon: Recipe for success in 1.2 ZvP: Build Infestors) | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
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Trite
United States6 Posts
Either way, Having corruptors out already will greatly lower the threat of the protoss collosi. | ||
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RivalryRedux
United States173 Posts
On January 14 2011 03:16 PulseSUI wrote: this is actualy wrong. a chronoboost does not double the production speed (100% -> 200%), it adds 50% to the production speed (100% -> 150%). a single chroboost only shaves of 6 seconds from a research/unit. a chronoboosted Phoenix takes now 29 ingame seconds, not 25 seconds. No he's right, if he was incorrectly assuming chrono doubled the production speed he would get 35/2 = 17.5 seconds. | ||
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