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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
Im sorry if this seems like a rage post, but im done. I paid alot of money to make a comp to be able to play this game, I bought "collectors edition" and am now being told by blizzard when and how i should eat/breathe/sleep/shit. Im in full support of GSL. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
Anyways i hope they add it to ladder too since steppes and delta sucks. | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
As for the maps, I'm hoping that Blizzard comes out with something when they roll out patch 1.2. If they don't I'm just going to be stunned and completely confused as to what direction Blizzard wants SC2 to take. I really wish there was some kind of feature that allowed groups such as Gretech or iCCup to run their own ladder inside bnet with their own map pools so people can choose which ladder they want to compete on. I suppose it would be similiar to how there is an "MLG" version of maps/rules for Halo. It's very surprising this feature doesn't already exist considering the guy who made XBL/Halo multiplayer made the new bnet... | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:12 Looky wrote: this thread really did go off subject but to all the terran whiners, haveto remember in broodwar terran was the least mobile and the maps were way bigger. They won by slow pushing with tanks, turrets, drop harrass. Sc2 terran probably is the most mobile race. I dont see why they wont be able to adapt. Might change to mass mech tvp like broodwar with bigger maps. Anyways i hope they add it to ladder too since steppes and delta sucks. Im a terran, and I fully support larger maps. The terrans whining are the ones who popularized the 5 rax reaper, 2 rax all in, and have reached their "mid to high diamond" status that way and dont want to lose it. | ||
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monitor
United States2406 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:07 SubtleArt wrote: The obvious problem is the game has been balanced on really small, gimmicky maps so large maps might present a balance issue. Zerg should have a fun time next season, and I think ZvT is going to be especially one sided (you really can't 2 rax marine scv with these distances). Cross position metalopolis Zerg is already at a huge advantage vs T, this is pretty much going to be that and a little more for side positions. We'll have to wait though, predictions are, after all, just predictions. Haha yeah, predictions are just predictions. I think eventually bigger maps will work there way into SC2. Pros will decide they're more fun, and call for them in ladder. Then Blizzard will have to oblige and put them in. After that, the game will become balanced for large maps after feedback is collected. Everyone is happy! Well, almost everyone. The casuals who like shorter games won't be satisfied. One way to deal with them, which Blizzard might do, is to put in two map pools to choose from before you search. Whichever pool you pick, you are guaranteed to play your game on a map in it. One could be map pool "A" with maps like these: Steppes of War, Blistering Sands, Jungle Basin, Scrap Station, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, Metalopolis The other map pool could be pool "B" with maps like these: Auir Garden, iCCup Testbug, Tal'Darim Altar, iCCup Pawn, Biohazard, iCCup Starlight Breaker edit: Somehow a spoiler worked itself in there haha. | ||
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:12 Looky wrote: this thread really did go off subject but to all the terran whiners, haveto remember in broodwar terran was the least mobile and the maps were way bigger. They won by slow pushing with tanks, turrets, drop harrass. Sc2 terran probably is the most mobile race. I dont see why they wont be able to adapt. Might change to mass mech tvp like broodwar with bigger maps. Anyways i hope they add it to ladder too since steppes and delta sucks. mech's immobility inherently lends it self to make it better the shorter it is to your opponent, if you're ever going to see mech tvp again it's not going to be thanks to maps getting bigger that much is certain. TvP was played mech (aside from the odd timing build) because mech was a lot stronger and bio wasn't viable. Now blizzard added the marauder which can for some extent survive the toss aoe and boned mech pretty much instead. | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On January 10 2011 13:12 pzea469 wrote: Thats complete bull and i see no evidence for this. Why is protoss so much better off with a huge map? Does that mean that their attacks will be impossible to stop because they can warp in units right outside your ramp in a big map? NO, because protoss already does this in small maps too. Does this mean that a push from Terran wont stand a chance in a big map because toss has warp in? NO, because when protoss warps in to defend, he might as well not use warp in at all since the units will spawn in his own base. Please explain why warp in, ignoring defenders advantage, would be any different on a big map than on a small map? These arguments dont make any sense without some good amount of games played on it. I could just say that Terran will have the advantage because now they can drop harrass with their always available medivacs in a huge map where the opponents army will have to move way far to defend it, and then T can just load up and fly away, or drop somewhere else. Is this true? NO because I have nothing to back that up with so please don't spread that around as fact because people might actually believe you. The defenders advantage is the ability to get reinforcements much quicker than the attacker, since the attacker has to rally them cross map etc. In other words it is the attacker disadvantage. The point here is that with warpgatetech you can reinforce your army anywhere you have a pylon or a prism. It´s not an advantage per se, it is actually removing the disadvantage attackers usually have. Removing the disadvantage others have while attacking is in turn an advantage while you are attacking. Relating this to harass with drops quite a jump since harass gets easier the more bases the enemy has. Straight up attacking while reinforcing with a proxy pylon is pretty much indifferent to the number of bases of the enemy. Just my thoughts, though. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:26 hoby2000 wrote: I believe what should (and probably will) happen is Blizzard's "Grand Master" and "Master" leagues will feature the maps that are being played in the GSL (such as the new replacement maps) and everyone else not in those leagues (i.e. the n00bs) will be stuck with Blizzard's maps. Because in all honesty, you can only take advantage of the map situation once you have mastered the game. Until then, the Blizzard maps will do just fine. I think that will retire my SC2 "career"... lol | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:26 Grebliv wrote: mech's immobility inherently lends it self to make it better the shorter it is to your opponent, if you're ever going to see mech tvp again it's not going to be thanks to maps getting bigger that much is certain. TvP was played mech (aside from the odd timing build) because mech was a lot stronger and bio wasn't viable. Now blizzard added the marauder which can for some extent survive the toss aoe and boned mech pretty much instead. Wrong. Mech needs 3 base to be truly efffective. Mech has a very slow start, short maps let your oppenant get a decisive advantage or just downright kill you before you get your ball rolling. Back to the thread. I think a big thing people are overlooking espcially Terrans is that big maps make a safe third OC rather than being forced almost everygame (current map pool) with a 3rd PF. That 3rd OC is so nice. I was doing some iccup the other day and a 3 base T with 3 OC's and 6 facts going is just awesome and runs so much smoother since A) You can take your third faster and B) As said earlier the map is big enough to let you take an OC instead of a PF. I used to be all for the Terran big mape hate. But honestly with our aresenal and tactics im sure the top tier terrans will pave the way and show us how to adapt. | ||
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FrostedMiniWeet
United States636 Posts
Small maps are so volatile and produce such short games, that the chances of an inferior player defeating a superior one are much higher than they should be. | ||
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mookku
Finland39 Posts
On January 10 2011 15:26 hoby2000 wrote: I believe what should (and probably will) happen is Blizzard's "Grand Master" and "Master" leagues will feature the maps that are being played in the GSL (such as the new replacement maps) and everyone else not in those leagues (i.e. the n00bs) will be stuck with Blizzard's maps. Because in all honesty, you can only take advantage of the map situation once you have mastered the game. Until then, the Blizzard maps will do just fine. Really bad logic there... How on earth are you supposed to master the game with maps that lead to avg 7 minute games? I really think the problem here will not be whether Blizzard wants to give bigger maps to regular ladder-newbs or not, but rather the situation that taking maps in to the ladder pool this way would look like "ok, we know our map design sucks, and we're ready to admit that in public as the biggest tournament out there pointed it out for us". Instead of taking these maps in to the ladder I think we will see bigger, more macro oriented maps by Blizzard, with the excuse of "smaller maps were there to give newbs time to learn the game" or something similar. Obviously Blizzard cares deeply about the state of their games, Diablo2 still getting patched and ladder resets prove that in my eyes. But I still think they do not want to take maps from 'outsiders' this way - who knows, maybe if the GSL people would have negotiated with Blizzard before announcing the map pool change, the change might have happened in the ladder as well. Obviously they respect GSL and support/sponsor it, but there are other companies involved and they will be extra careful so that there won't be any chance for legal difficulties similar to BW/Kespa situation. I do HOPE that these maps get in the ladder pool - which by the way sucks at the moment, 3 downvotes is not NEARLY enough for this bs - but sadly I think it will still take some time before the ladder pool will get much better. And hey, like someone stated, they like LT to be in the pool, and there has to be at least 3 suckier maps there so that it will still get played (steppes, dq and jungle basin are filling my downvotes atm). And to the issue at hand; it would really _really_ suck if the pros start playing only these new, better maps at all tournaments and customs, and us regular folk would be left with bullshitty all-in favoring maps at ladder. Would probably drive me even more away from actually playing the game and just watching the streams. I often get very frustrated laddering as it is with all the 7 minute games (does not really even help if I manage to win most of them) and I really suck at finding customs, just a bit too much effort for me I guess. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
My opinion is that if ever the map pool is going to change and include larger more balanced custom maps then someone is going to have to take the first step and say "we hate ladder maps". And I mean that someone who is partnered with blizz (ie GomTV) will need to show that custom maps will lead to more interesting and more balanced maps. Hopefully, blizz will get the picture and decide to include these maps into the ladder rotation and even if its dictated by the Korean scene, new maps are great and will make this game run for a very long time to come. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
The ladder is not some extension of the GSL or any other tournament out there. Blizzard is not going to cater to the 1% of the "pro" scene and put large maps in there that scares most new players, your average Joe Modern Warfare who picks up SC2 at Gamestop. What could be the answer is if Blizzard allows different map sets in different divisions, so that Diamond and Master League (or was it Grand Master?) has a more hardcore, larger map pool and the newcomers have their Stepps of War in Bronze-Silver-Gold You satisfy everyone, and in essence you also make the divisions much different by the different map pool. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
I can hope... | ||
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Tiazi
Netherlands761 Posts
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
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dkim
United States255 Posts
if blizz fails at updating their maps, its about damn time someone took the mantle. thanks gom, I hope this gets implemented with time for players to practice on these maps. | ||
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