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On January 10 2011 01:29 NoXious90 wrote:
just out of curiousity, in what way does day9 refuse to accept sponsorship? because if he does refuse it and alternatively seeks to extract money from the community in order to pay his bills, then that is a direct contradiction to his entire speil about 'allowing money to flow into esports rather than forcing people to pay for it'
I sort of think the same way, but I feel that it's still a step in the right direction. I would like to see him take a sponsorship of some variety to top it all off.
I'm not quite sure I understand the fear of sponsorships, given that he held the Razer King of the Beta tournament and pushed Razer all throughout. The only thing I can imagine is that the dailies are a lot more informal than a tournament where, in many ways, its about business. However, if the goal is to put more money in to e-sports, then I hope he still has an open mind regarding sponsorships. Regardless to whether or not the donation aspect is appropriate, more money is more money. So long as the show doesn't suffer from "sell-out syndrome" then I'm sure everybody would appreciate and embrace it.
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On January 09 2011 21:56 Stark1 wrote:
Did anyone else just lose a lot of respect for Day9? I'm fine with him taking donations, but when he says he doesn't want fans paying for e-sports then immediately moves on to ask for money, my jimmies get rustled. This from a guy who just got an entire semester of school paid for by the community (at least $2k), and who surely makes decent bank from casting gigs and Ustream adverts.
But, you say, "now he's going to put money he's being given from other sources (back) into e-sports!" This, I imagine, is true. However, all this statement does is distract from the fact that he's now actively begging the community to ease his ride on the gravy train that SC2 is fast becoming (not to mention that "e-sports" may well mean "you all just bought me a trip to -blank- event which I am most likely being paid to attend anyway").
P.S.
I really do hope I end up with egg on my face; Day9 comes off as quite nice, and it won't be a surprise to me if we see him channel his growing monetary resources into a large-scale event sometime in the future. If anything, he's now quite obligated to do so.
Somewhat, I got mixed feelings about this. It makes no sense to say things the way he did. Considering he received a lot of money from fans only a while ago, it makes it look even worse. I'm not going to donate, simply because I almost never donate to anything lol, I'll have faith in day9 though, he looks like a cool guy, and seems to have lots of energy for whatever he's planning.
Deeper into the issue however, I don't know how e-sports will ever fly, if SC2 dies in korea that'd be the nail in the coffin for e-sports around the world, be it in whatever media you want to think of (TV, inet stream, whatever), I don't know, sometimes the dedicated e-sports communities (TL, GG, ESL) fail a little bit in the perspective department, failing to see that beyond them, nobody really cares. Well, maybe that will change in around 10-15 years, I just wouldn't expect it do so anytime soon, since the whole gaming thing carries a rather important stigma attached to it.
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On January 10 2011 01:29 NoXious90 wrote:
just out of curiousity, in what way does day9 refuse to accept sponsorship? because if he does refuse it and alternatively seeks to extract money from the community in order to pay his bills, then that is a direct contradiction to his entire speil about 'allowing money to flow into esports rather than forcing people to pay for it'
But he's not forcing people to pay for it, its a choice.
I think the reason he refuses sponsership for the Daily is because when you get a regular sponsor it can open a lot of legal issues with contracts and brand exposure time (listen to how often Tasteless and Artosis plug the GSL sponsors for an example), plus he may find he has to do a certain amount of shows to satisfy the criteria of the contract with the sponsors. A regular gig is a lot different than a one-off like the King of the Beta tournament was since its on-going.
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I totally donated. If anybody deserves to do what he does full time and not worry about how to pay the rent, and cover all of his expenses, and also buy meat ...
... it's this guy.
Oh, and I didn't read the entire thread. But I know internet people:
To all those who are overanalyzing this and blah blah blah ...
Cheeeeeee-zus. Will you just send the guy $5 or $10 or $20 in appreciation for all of the entertainment, hard work, and honestly just plain good vibes he churns out constantly for your benefit?
Cheeeeee-zus already ...
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On January 10 2011 02:10 Darkong wrote:
But he's not forcing people to pay for it, its a choice.
I think the reason he refuses sponsership for the Daily is because when you get a regular sponsor it can open a lot of legal issues with contracts and brand exposure time (listen to how often Tasteless and Artosis plug the GSL sponsors for an example), plus he may find he has to do a certain amount of shows to satisfy the criteria of the contract with the sponsors. A regular gig is a lot different than a one-off like the King of the Beta tournament was since its on-going.
You bring up a good point indeed regarding sponsorship. That might very well be the reason he doesn't like it that much.
I think Day[9] is awesome. For this game and its community for sure. I believe his intention to be true, and find the way of approaching this a good one. He will happily accept any donations, but won't say anything like: "Well Whizon, no donation this month? NO DAILY FOR YOU". For that last part it might be best to imagine the soup nazi from Seinfeld screaming it, for extra effect.
The signal regarding the development/rise of e-sports Day[9] gives, is one that says "we're going to do it together, all of us" (he said something like that literally I believe). If we (read: you) want it to happen, there's a way to contribute. Be it through a donation, or participation of a community project.
Looking at the bigger picture of things, I think the way he picked is the way to go. It's also a kind of check to see how many people within the community are really feeling it at the moment to give e-sports some (more serious) attention. But generally speaking, if you want to create something (good/cool/interesting/etc) for a certain group of people, leaving influence at that group of people is a good way to keep the goal you want to reach realistic. If the group decides it's not worth it, it will fail. In a way this reminds me of politics. Which isn't a good thing per say, but let's not go there!
I find it enjoyable and nice to see how much cool and good stuff Day[9] provides for the SC2 community with his casts. I am very curious about what he has in store for us this year with the projects he mentioned. And even more so as to how SC2 as a game and its community will develop in the future.
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For everyone saying he should just accept sponsorship, you're not really thinking about how he probably feels about the issue.
He created the daily and has seen it grow from its infancy, and it seems to me that he doesn't want to have to open with "Welcome to the Day[9] Daily brought to you by Doritos!" or "Welcome to the Pizza Hut Day[9] Daily!" every single day.
If it gets to the point where he'll either have to cancel the daily to support himself or accept sponsorship, I'm sure he'll probably accept sponsorship.
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I think a better way to ask for donations would of been to not ask at all and instead to thank the people who gave donations. See Will Wheaton's radio show for example.
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On January 09 2011 12:11 WhoDoYouThink wrote:
I'm not sure you guys understand the whole deal being him not accepting a sponsorship.
OF COURSE if he accepts one he'll get tons of money. OF COURSE if he gets one it shows progress in the eSports scene.
But Day9 won't do that because he doesn't want eSports to be a game of money - it's a game of entertainment, and interactivity. eSports will be where players and the community interact and have fun, not where the community is kickin' back with a bottle of Coca-Cola.
Personally, I say Day9 should accept the sponsorship. I admire, adore, and hope to aspire to him for taking the community over the money. It's an amazing feat that everyone person hope they can do.
That's what I got out of his State of the Union.
I don't really feel up to writing a 100+ page report on why sponsors are essential to e-sports, but I will comment that this whole notion that "Day[9] doesn't want e-sports to be a game of money" sounds better on paper than it does in practicality.
If you remove sponsors from e-sports, you simply don't have e-sports and, in reality, you don't really have shows like the Day[9] Daily existing for very long. Day[9] (and his cronies) seems to think that involving a sponsor somehow decreases the integrity or credibility of the show. It seems to be a consistent theme that he expresses and I have to say...that speaks to his lack of experience with sponsors, brands, and how effective marketing actually works within new media platforms.
Just as an example: 9 out of the 10 most recent blockbusters you've seen have probably had some form of product placement in them. You probably don't recall what they were now, but when watching the movie you may have noticed the "GEICO" logo on the wall behind the actor or the fact the camera zoomed into that Mountain Dew bottle for some reason. If done properly, it's very easy to incorporate a sponsor's messaging/products without hindering the quality and integrity of the program. It's not as black and white as Day[9] and his avid viewers seem to imply.
I'm sure I could continue on this, but I would need much more space and time to do so. I hope this helps you understand a bit more of how you can actually have both a community interacting and having fun and a community kickin' back with a bottle of Coca-Cola at the same time without conflict.
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I am for sure going to donate... but i dont see why he doesnt take sponsors. Its not selling out. When i watch anyother sport ANY other sport the ads are in my face 100% of the time. If we want the money flowing into esports.... ads in our face are the way to go, and i am ok with that.
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Why not just use the money to host more esport events/tournaments in NA?
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If he just thanked people to donate, he would appear much better and maybe even receive more donations.
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Awesome, i hope this will work.
FUCK YEAH E-SPORTS 
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On January 10 2011 03:43 betaV1.25 wrote:
I am for sure going to donate... but i dont see why he doesnt take sponsors. Its not selling out. When i watch anyother sport ANY other sport the ads are in my face 100% of the time. If we want the money flowing into esports.... ads in our face are the way to go, and i am ok with that.
It's not selling out, but some of their requirements or what they want when they sponsor may deter the quality of his stream or generally just be too much.
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Day9 really needs to try and can his Dailys put on the battle.net news page when you log into the game.
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On January 10 2011 03:43 betaV1.25 wrote:
I am for sure going to donate... but i dont see why he doesnt take sponsors. Its not selling out. When i watch anyother sport ANY other sport the ads are in my face 100% of the time. If we want the money flowing into esports.... ads in our face are the way to go, and i am ok with that.
I think his mentality is more like, he'd rather give us the choice of whether or not to donate instead of forcing us to have ads thrown at us. He wants to keep the control in the hands of the community.
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On January 09 2011 05:36 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 04:31 mufin wrote:
People need to do more then throwing money at Sean and expecting him to carry esports. Getting involved in the community and starting your own projects is 100 times more effective then paying Sean's electric bill. Thats where JP started with SotG, thats where Sean started with his daily, and countless others who are well known in the community.
Some people have more money than time. It's much easier for me to drop $1,000 into Day9's bank account than it is to spend 100 hours on my own esports projects. It's also much cheaper to boot since I own my own business and time is money. I also expect Sean will put it to good use in ways I never could, just because he has such a huge following already. Not everyone who plays SC2 is a broke college kid. Some of us are overloaded on time commitment but can easily help pay to help promote our favorite pastime.
Well said. People are good at projecting their own situation upon everyone. I agree that those of us who have more time to give than money could best serve in that fashion, and simply throwing money at a problem doesn't help unless someone is willing to give of their time...
But Sean is. "Throwing" money at him will give him the ability to devote his workday hours to this project, rather than having to promote SC2 in his free time, when he's not working. That's a steep mountain for anyone to climb, much less have some random job on the side at the same time. Furthermore, if he gets so much money he can't spend it in a lifetime, perhaps he can "hire" more people for their time to devote to this (Not that I feel he should spend it how I tell him to, of course, he can do it however it works for him, so long as he helps e-sports happen, even if spent on mental sanity endeavors such as a trip to the Carribean to "idea-ate" :p ). Yes, we can "throw" money at this. However, not to diminish Muffin's point, we should also volunteer time where we can, but rather than argue on the optimal route to making our goals reality, let's agree to do what's optimal for each of us, on an individual basis, whether it be participating, devoting time, denotaing, etc.
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On January 10 2011 03:29 REM.ca wrote:
I think a better way to ask for donations would of been to not ask at all and instead to thank the people who gave donations. See Will Wheaton's radio show for example.
I think you are being a needless dick to perhaps the greatest member of the SC2 community. Either donate or don't, but stop nitpicking Day9's 100% justified and understandable donation "request".
'm not quite sure I understand the fear of sponsorships, given that he held the Razer King of the Beta tournament and pushed Razer all throughout. The only thing I can imagine is that the dailies are a lot more informal than a tournament where, in many ways, its about business. However, if the goal is to put more money in to e-sports, then I hope he still has an open mind regarding sponsorships. Regardless to whether or not the donation aspect is appropriate, more money is more money. So long as the show doesn't suffer from "sell-out syndrome" then I'm sure everybody would appreciate and embrace it.
Well, "sell-out syndrome" is nice and vague, huh. Nice advice, haha.
People complained connnnstantly about Day9's constant plugging of Razer and Razer's gear during the tournament. There was tons of ragging on him every time he stopped to plug Razer shit. It's not like everybody just accepted it. There was tons of arguing about it, and people had to make the point that it's a TOURNAMENT, so there would be no prize money without Razer.
At the end of the day, this community is anti-advertising, and accepting a sponsorship would cause a lot of debate about whether he's selling out or not. That, in itself, is bad for his image. You have people hating on him now just for asking for donations! Can you believe these people?
So this is a smart thing for him to do. Stop thinking and give him money.
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On January 09 2011 21:56 Stark1 wrote:
Did anyone else just lose a lot of respect for Day9? I'm fine with him taking donations, but when he says he doesn't want fans paying for e-sports then immediately moves on to ask for money, my jimmies get rustled. This from a guy who just got an entire semester of school paid for by the community (at least $2k), and who surely makes decent bank from casting gigs and Ustream adverts.
But, you say, "now he's going to put money he's being given from other sources (back) into e-sports!" This, I imagine, is true. However, all this statement does is distract from the fact that he's now actively begging the community to ease his ride on the gravy train that SC2 is fast becoming (not to mention that "e-sports" may well mean "you all just bought me a trip to -blank- event which I am most likely being paid to attend anyway").
P.S.
I really do hope I end up with egg on my face; Day9 comes off as quite nice, and it won't be a surprise to me if we see him channel his growing monetary resources into a large-scale event sometime in the future. If anything, he's now quite obligated to do so.
He spent maybe a minute of that 12 minute segment about taking donations, he spent like 5x more time about people and their time/ability to expand things. If you dont want to donate but have a skill you can offer, try and utilize that skill.
Are you a good organizer? Do you know people? Contact Day9, see if hes got an idea that you can help him with.
Can you make epic fan videos and help try to make SC2 and/or esports more popular?
Can you get a list of companies that are willing to sponsor events?
Maybe you are a good writer and want to write a fan column, or write a letter to TV stations to try and convince them that they can and should air SC2/esports.
Hell, maybe you can just convince a few more people around you to try out watching esports, explain to them what is going on and get them hooked.
There are tons more things in which people can do to help SC2/esports/day9/everybody, and it would just require your time. These are the things in which day9 spoke of way way way more than he spoke of donations. Donations are there so that he can further utilize his time. If he doesnt have to work to stay alive, he can invest more of his time to help promote/organize whatever.
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I didnt read all posts, so sorry if this was allready noticed.
The picture in OP, the letter J on the keyboard has a star around it, maybe this has something to do with the "number J"episode?
Just thought it was funny and maybe coincidental
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"Stop thinking and give him money"? Sorry, no. To both commands. I really can't understand why Day9 is some sort higher individual who will lead us into the promised land. He's a good caster, for sure, and the dailies are good (although I'm far too busy to watch them, usually). I can't see why he deserves donations to do things that are basically serving his own interests as much as they are those of esports. He's not some monk with an alms bowl who only eats before noon and then spends the rest of the day meditating on proper drone timing.
He's a business-man and a brand. Get an agent. Get paid well for casting tournaments. Coach for three hundred bucks an hour. Go be a success! Day9 does not need to martyr himself or live on ramen so that esports can get big, because it getting big will ultimately enrich a lot of people. I hope he's one of them. I cannot see why he needs my five bucks to get there, though. Other people have climbed the ladder without asking for handouts, he should, too.
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EPT
