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On December 04 2010 18:41 Scorch wrote:
I seriously can't take that "no more holding down a key to macro" change. What an annoyance! Why would they force mindless hotkey spamming? You could already do that before if you wanted to, but now you have to. It is unacceptable to take away a convenience feature from players when they're used to it. It makes me rage when I have to fight against the UI more than against my opponent.
This change makes zerg annoyingly inconvenient to play, and that takes away the fun for me. I might switch to another race just because of this change, although I love zerg.
I feel exactly the same way. It's disheartening. I seriously hope they don't go through with it. Zerg already requires enough apm.
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On December 04 2010 18:40 Contagious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 04 2010 18:02 Bluetea wrote:
Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.
What?! Does this mean 2 zerglings in my mineral line = all my probes attacking those zerglings? Jesus, you wont be able to run workers away from any harassing units now -- Fucking bullshit change. exactly... this change is so fucking stupid. The patch notes are retarded... and I'm a protoss player. They made the most stupid changes.. and the chat channels. to put it in iNcontroL words... OH MY FUCKING GOD... so fucking embarassing on what they did. Seriously I hope they have something that comes out soon and says december fools cause this is terrible.
LOL *facepalm* someone cant figure out sarcasm.
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On December 04 2010 18:44 andrewwiggin wrote:
Okay fine.
Im tired now of zerg whining about how protoss are now unbeatable.
Let's see how this settles in a month, then talk.
Why dont you test the game first then talk? Till then I'm happy that you've silenced yourself.
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On December 04 2010 18:44 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:41 Rflcrx wrote:On December 04 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:
Explain how a zerg player now can kill phoenix. If you can't please be silent. You attack them with your units, such as hydras. You can also make sounds irl while your hydras shoot them down. Such as saying "pew pew pew" and watch the phoenix explode once they reach 0 hp from the damage you do to them.
This might work in bronce league, however, normaly players don't a move the phoenix, a very fast unit, into a bunch of hydras, a very slow unit.
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On December 04 2010 18:36 ZergInfestedJesus wrote:
When I tried logging on to the PTR, I got a "We can not find a version of starcraft 2 attached to this battle.net account". Any Help?
And yes, im NA
Having the same problem.
The only problem I can think that is on my end is I switched the e-mail account I use to log in two months ago.
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On December 04 2010 18:46 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:44 andrewwiggin wrote:
Okay fine.
Im tired now of zerg whining about how protoss are now unbeatable.
Let's see how this settles in a month, then talk.
Why dont you test the game first then talk? Till then I'm happy that you've silenced yourself.
Why dont you post up those awesome 2k replays first then talk? Till then I'm happy for you to keep whining about how you can't beat phoenix at all.
It's really quite entertaining.
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On December 04 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:37 Arckan wrote:On December 04 2010 18:32 andrewwiggin wrote:On December 04 2010 18:31 Arckan wrote:On December 04 2010 18:19 andrewwiggin wrote: How fast do you think a spore kills a phoenix? The poster you quoted was perfectly accurate in his assessment. You aren't arguing an opinion at this point, please go and test it yourself if you insist on this being the case. 6+ Phoenix can kill several drones and a queen before a single one falls if you have a three-point spore setup.
Then build more than 3 spores if you suspect heavy phoenix play, and have more than 1 queen at your main (like most zerg)? Seriously. Nubs be nubbing. Do you see Terran building 15 missile turrets at their mineral line because the Zerg is going Muta? Does Toss build 15 photon cannons when Zerg is going Muta? No, because it is completely ineffective and non-viable. What if I have two bases? Or three? How many spores should I have per base in your opinion? Let's say 5 spore spores per base on two bases: ((75+50) * 5) * 2) = 1250 minerals. Scouting a Stargate that's building Phoenix should force me to spend in excess of 1200 minerals? Is that what you would call a viable counter? Oh, but you wanted to stack Queens as well, let's assume that the bases are connected with creep and we have a total of 5 queens: (150 * 5) = 750 minerals. So we're at 2k minerals just to counter your 4-5 Phoenixes? No, that math isn't all-encompassing, you'd surely have at least 3 Queens even if the P wasn't building air. This doesn't change the fact that Z defending against Phoenixes without FG is an extremely volatile obstacle. I'll repeat myself: Go test it if you're so confident. Okay. Sorry, I didn't know the patch removed hydralisks AND corrupters also. My bad. Keep ignoring the points everyone is making, ignore the fact that no one in this thread has agreed with you. I'm done feeding the troll that thinks Corruptors are a viable counter to Phoenix play. LOL. You can whine all you want. But if what you're basically saying is that Phoenix have no counters and are now imba... then protoss are unbeatable! That IS what you're saying right? And you call ME the troll. ha.
I'm really getting the feeling you've never played Zerg.
First, you say get lots of Spores. Ok, so I have 4 at each base, and 2 queens at each base, just to stop the POTENTIAL harass.
Next, I get very slow Hydras since I had to invest so much in Spores.
And now, by your logic, I just win?
I don't think this change is going to be gamebreaking, but do you have any idea how much money 4 spores to a base is? And how bad that hurts the economy? At that point the Toss can do whatever he wants. And when a fight comes, he can just lift units to stop them from attacking.
Again, I don't think pheonix are impossible to beat. I know they can, and will be stopped. But how you're explaining it sounds like a bronze player...
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On December 04 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:37 Arckan wrote:On December 04 2010 18:32 andrewwiggin wrote:On December 04 2010 18:31 Arckan wrote:On December 04 2010 18:19 andrewwiggin wrote: How fast do you think a spore kills a phoenix? The poster you quoted was perfectly accurate in his assessment. You aren't arguing an opinion at this point, please go and test it yourself if you insist on this being the case. 6+ Phoenix can kill several drones and a queen before a single one falls if you have a three-point spore setup.
Then build more than 3 spores if you suspect heavy phoenix play, and have more than 1 queen at your main (like most zerg)? Seriously. Nubs be nubbing. Do you see Terran building 15 missile turrets at their mineral line because the Zerg is going Muta? Does Toss build 15 photon cannons when Zerg is going Muta? No, because it is completely ineffective and non-viable. What if I have two bases? Or three? How many spores should I have per base in your opinion? Let's say 5 spore spores per base on two bases: ((75+50) * 5) * 2) = 1250 minerals. Scouting a Stargate that's building Phoenix should force me to spend in excess of 1200 minerals? Is that what you would call a viable counter? Oh, but you wanted to stack Queens as well, let's assume that the bases are connected with creep and we have a total of 5 queens: (150 * 5) = 750 minerals. So we're at 2k minerals just to counter your 4-5 Phoenixes? No, that math isn't all-encompassing, you'd surely have at least 3 Queens even if the P wasn't building air. This doesn't change the fact that Z defending against Phoenixes without FG is an extremely volatile obstacle. I'll repeat myself: Go test it if you're so confident. Okay. Sorry, I didn't know the patch removed hydralisks AND corrupters also. My bad. Keep ignoring the points everyone is making, ignore the fact that no one in this thread has agreed with you. I'm done feeding the troll that thinks Corruptors are a viable counter to Phoenix play. LOL. You can whine all you want. But if what you're basically saying is that Phoenix have no counters and are now imba... then protoss are unbeatable! That IS what you're saying right? And you call ME the troll. ha.
i wish if you have a mate with some micro skill goes phoenix and you go mutas, the phoenix needs not to outnumber your mutas and i promise his phoenix will rape all your mutas and will never die unless he stupidly let them fly above alot hydras. (and NO, no toss will ever use their phoenix face to face with corruptor) you want some evidence of pro phoenix raping mutas?? checkprime showed us even pros cant do shit when they see a certain amount of phoenixes.
Phoenix will have no counter from zerg (unless you smartly fly all of them on MASS hydras, phoenixes will rape small amount of hydras anyday), YES.
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On December 04 2010 18:46 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:44 zeru wrote:On December 04 2010 18:41 Rflcrx wrote:On December 04 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:
Explain how a zerg player now can kill phoenix. If you can't please be silent. You attack them with your units, such as hydras. You can also make sounds irl while your hydras shoot them down. Such as saying "pew pew pew" and watch the phoenix explode once they reach 0 hp from the damage you do to them. This might work in bronce league, however, normaly players don't a move the phoenix, a very fast unit, into a bunch of hydras, a very slow unit.
You seem way too biased. As a Zerg player, I don't have problems versus Phoenixes. 1-2 spores per base, 3-4 Queens with transfusion micro and Hydra tech isn't difficult.
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the Void ray and Phoenix buff is gonna affect PvZ by a huge amount. its gonna swing PvZ balance to the P side by a lot. this is not a good patch
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WOW!
-- Phoenix
Build time decreased from 45 to 35.
AND
No more fungal on air....
My go to response against mass phoenix was muta infestor.... WTH DO I DO NOW!
Also Mutas will be OP in ZVZ?
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On December 04 2010 18:43 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:18 Ghazwan wrote:It's the same thing every patch  One race gets nerfed. That race's players mass whine on forums, while the other two races' players tell them to give it some time (possibly with a happy grin on their face). The funny thing is this: they're right. Everyone who says to give it time has been right. When Blizzard announced the whole Supply Depot before Barracks, Terrans were up in arms. Terrans acted like Terran gameplay was dead. It's fine. It didn't ruin their ability to apply early-game pressure. It didn't stop them from entering the mid-game or going Banshees or anything else. Terran play is fine, borderline over-powered in the early-game. The VR nerf was supposed to make them useless, but they still had value and were still used in 1.1.2. People have said similar hyperbolic garbage about other changes, and in virtually every case, they've been wrong. Balance has gotten better in each patch.
I would like to state my agreement with this. Every patch that nerfs / buffs a particular aspect of gameplay is always cried about, but those players that are good learn to adapt their playstyle. Of course, if you disagree with something, you should voice your opinion, but with evidence such as replays to reinforce your point, rather than unfounded theorycrafting.
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On December 04 2010 18:46 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:44 zeru wrote:On December 04 2010 18:41 Rflcrx wrote:On December 04 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:
Explain how a zerg player now can kill phoenix. If you can't please be silent. You attack them with your units, such as hydras. You can also make sounds irl while your hydras shoot them down. Such as saying "pew pew pew" and watch the phoenix explode once they reach 0 hp from the damage you do to them. This might work in bronce league, however, normaly players don't a move the phoenix, a very fast unit, into a bunch of hydras, a very slow unit.
fast phoenix means delayed robo tech. since you should be making more queens anyway your creep spread (in all directions) will be much faster. big timing window for roach/hydra attacks before colossi can come out.
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On December 04 2010 18:47 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 18:46 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 04 2010 18:44 andrewwiggin wrote:
Okay fine.
Im tired now of zerg whining about how protoss are now unbeatable.
Let's see how this settles in a month, then talk.
Why dont you test the game first then talk? Till then I'm happy that you've silenced yourself. Why dont you post up those awesome 2k replays first then talk? Till then I'm happy for you to keep whining about how you can't beat phoenix at all. It's really quite entertaining.
It's relieving to hear that no one here agrees with you considering you don't even play zerg and haven't even played the game with the changes. you have zero credibility, so what's the point in even listening to you? good bye
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I am a 1800 diamond zerg in the 1.1.3 but a bronze player on 1.2, maybe its my attitude, or the nerfs, but I haven't been able to win once...
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On December 04 2010 10:50 greve wrote:Please god say it isn't so
I hate that change so much. Medivacs and Phoenixes will be so obnoxious.
Mutas in ZvT won't be a choice, it will be a necessity.
Edit: And muta wars in ZvZ 
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So...
Zerg have to deal with a mass of fast flying air units that are great at harassing masses of probes/drones/scvs.
.... wait a minute...
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Honestly, the hyperbole in this thread is miiiiiind blowing. Sure there are some choice changes, but that's ok, it's the PTR, it's not live. The fungal patch I don't quite agree with sure, but no this does not mean you'll never use infestors again or that pheonix are now overpowered. Maybe people should chill out a little bit. But on a side note, YAY for customizable hotkeys.
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EPT
