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On December 05 2010 03:00 syllogism wrote:
I've yet to see a high level ZvZ that even went to t3
That was never an issue, ZvZ in brood war was always about 5 minute games anyway.
Biggest change is definitely to fungal. Drops will be a lot more viable versus zerg again.
I like the cheaper observers, but I think they should've made the robo bay itself cheaper so you could afford to build one as an aside on your way to templar tech, if that was your choice.
The ultralisk slight buff acts a bit like small range upgrade, that should be nice.
Faster phoenixes is fantastic, maybe now phoenix harass will be a great early game strat... popping ovies, lifting queens... force zerg to put down a hydra den, delay the roach rush, etc.
Strange changes, in my opinion. I always felt TvZ and PvZ were pretty even, I just felt PvT was slightly terran-favoured.
Oh, and zergs complaining about the hold-down key fix? Chill, winston. At least you don't have to manually place units on the field each and every time you build units. No queues? Cry me a river.
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On December 05 2010 03:17 arsenic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 03:13 Deadlyfish wrote:I really think that zergs are going crazy over this, without even having tried it first. I think that you don't understand the current state of the game and how ridiculously powerful double stargate openings will be if Zerg can't use FG on the Pheonix.
how did you ever manage to use fungal growth on a double stargate opening anyways. it takes a while to get to infestors
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Like many zerg players said before:
Just adapt.. maybe it takes time but it is fine, just adapt 
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On December 05 2010 03:18 lowercase wrote:
On December 05 2010 03:00 syllogism wrote:
I've yet to see a high level ZvZ that even went to t3
Strange changes, in my opinion. I always felt TvZ and PvZ were pretty even, I just felt PvT was slightly terran-favoured.
Yeah, I think they said that PvT was imbalanced and they are about to change that Terran is weaker early on and Protoss weaker later on. I don't think this patch will help PvT's situation at all. PvZ is good change since Inferstors just owned up Phoenixes and I think it will be very even mu now on.
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On December 05 2010 03:13 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:54 lariat wrote:
Everyone here seems to think that Corrupters somehow magically destroy Phoenixes. No, they don't. Phoenixes are a LOT faster than corruptors so in reality you can never engage the P air army unless he wants you to. Which he won't without stalker/VR support. This is exactly what it is like being a Terran/Protoss against muta, you cant ever engage him unless he wants to. I realize that the races arent the same, and you cant just compare, but really i think zergs will learn to build a few more queens, get a few spore crawlers. Honestly what is a phoenix going to do against a spore crawler? I really think that zergs are going crazy over this, without even having tried it first.
Uhhh.... You can't do anything vs. muta harass?
Maybe Terran has to be more passive, but last time I checked phoenixes were faster, had longer range, could move-shot, were higher damage and higher life (for more minerals, granted) than mutalisks? Mutalisks can't run away from phoenixes, so if you catch the muta ball then they basically all die unless the mutas are in the Z's base, at which point you have completely nullified muta harass. With a bit of micro, you shouldn't lose more than a couple phoenixes while being able to kill huge muta balls due to superior range/attack cooldown/speed.
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Actually, thinking about it, as much as I think this helps "buff" warp prisms versus zerg, I worry that this will make Z much, much weaker versus medivac drops. In fact, I know this will be very tough.
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Oh, and zergs complaining about the hold-down key fix? Chill, winston. At least you don't have to manually place units on the field each and every time you build units. No queues? Cry me a river.
One huge difference.
You don't lose at least 25 stalkers and 40 or so zealots in EVERY battle.
If we win a battle without massive losses on our part, it's a fucking miracle, or you made a really stupid and horrible mistake.
If we win a battle without massive losses, if usually ends the game, cause our army comes back faster, we'll be 200/200 before you're 120/100.
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On December 05 2010 03:18 lowercase wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 03:00 syllogism wrote:
I've yet to see a high level ZvZ that even went to t3 Oh, and zergs complaining about the hold-down key fix? Chill, winston. At least you don't have to manually place units on the field each and every time you build units. No queues? Cry me a river.
holding down z and clicking around in a pylon aura is not hard at all...
and if you find it so difficult, just keep gateways instead of warpgates
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I've never macro'd units by holdin down the key, I've known of this being possible, but it always felt normal to me to just button spam in late game so I'm genuinly suprised how much everyone else is raging. It doesn't drastically alter your production speed, and it's not that difficult, just a bit more tedious. Every patch has people fearing change and running from their respective races "inevitable apocalypse".
I also rarely use Infestors...Just hydras with creepspread for things like Phoenix and Voidrays. So when I saw the creepspread 'buff' I was quiet pleased. Seeing as I'm only plat I don't see the ridiculous imbalances Diamond players see...
Damn I'm noob.
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A middle ground on fungal growth would be allow it to damage but not immobilize air. However I think it is a good change as is.
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Somewhere in GSL heaven, GuineaPig is smiling.
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wow GREAT PATCH (I dont want to be commenting balance, since this should be an own thread):
Blizzard really implemented so many things, that people were asking for.
- Stalemate
- safe all replays
- Hotkeys
- Chatchannels
and more more more
I know many of those have been normal in earlier games, still Blizzard listens. Props to them
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On December 05 2010 03:27 King of Blades wrote:Show nested quote +Oh, and zergs complaining about the hold-down key fix? Chill, winston. At least you don't have to manually place units on the field each and every time you build units. No queues? Cry me a river. One huge difference. You don't lose at least 25 stalkers and 40 or so zealots in EVERY battle. If we win a battle without massive losses on our part, it's a fucking miracle, or you made a really stupid and horrible mistake. If we win a battle without massive losses, if usually ends the game, cause our army comes back faster, we'll be 200/200 before you're 120/100.
Hahaha, I love this "we" versus "you" talk, where "we" means "us zerg" and you means "you protoss." 
And while these changes will certainly make phoenixes even better versus zerg (they were already good in the first place, really), I don't think it will affect PvT much at all. If anyone can convince me otherwise, please do.
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While I'm super pumped Blizzard is finally adding chat channels, is anyone else upset with their implementation? I was kind of hoping they'd take up the main bulk of the screen, not a tiny chat window.
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Sorry if I missed it somewhere around these 106 pages but did anybody check to see if the space colossus bug was fixed?
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On December 05 2010 03:37 ch4ppi wrote:
wow GREAT PATCH (I dont want to be commenting balance, since this should be an own thread):
Blizzard really implemented so many things, that people were asking for.
- Stalemate
- safe all replays
- Hotkeys
- Chatchannels
and more more more
I know many of those have been normal in earlier games, still Blizzard listens. Props to them
for a 2010 game. all of that shud be default features.
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On December 05 2010 03:38 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:
While I'm super pumped Blizzard is finally adding chat channels, is anyone else upset with their implementation? I was kind of hoping they'd take up the main bulk of the screen, not a tiny chat window.
Yeah, can't say I'm very impressed with the chat channels. I thought they would show the division icons too, especially since they're making them change based on how many points you have.
Don't see why it took them so long to release something this plain.
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On December 05 2010 03:44 fnaticAugury wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 03:38 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:
While I'm super pumped Blizzard is finally adding chat channels, is anyone else upset with their implementation? I was kind of hoping they'd take up the main bulk of the screen, not a tiny chat window. Yeah, can't say I'm very impressed with the chat channels. I thought they would show the division icons too, especially since they're making them change based on how many points you have. Don't see why it took them so long to release something this plain.
when did they say they will make em change based on how many pts?
any previews of what they would look like?
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After reading the patch notes over again I do think some zergs, including myself initially looked over some good changes when we saw the fungal change. Repairing SCVs now assuming the same threat priority as the unit they're repairing is quite nice. Not being able to be blocked in my two pylons is also quite nice. Also the ultralisk change seems like it'll be a sizable buff. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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On December 05 2010 03:48 MementoMori wrote:
After reading the patch notes over again I do think some zergs, including myself initially looked over some good changes when we saw the fungal change. Repairing SCVs now assuming the same threat priority as the unit they're repairing is quite nice. Not being able to be blocked in my two pylons is also quite nice. Also the ultralisk change seems like it'll be a sizable buff. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Zergs should be cheering, now their mutas are more likely to stay alive in ZvZ.
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EPT
