|
On December 05 2010 02:00 Falcon_NL wrote:
but the ONLY and I repeat, the ONLY viable counter toss has vs mutas is phoenix. if those get shut down by infestor play, what could toss possibly do? toss cant do robo AND stargate, thats way to gas intensive.
help me out on this one.
Storm and clean up with Archons and Stalkers - which at the same time works against the typical Muta support ground units (Speedling/Baneling).
|
Corruptors are pretty cost effective against phoenixes, especially if you use corruption. 3 corruptors beat 4 phonixes and 4v4 they win with three still remaining. Of course phoenixes can just disengage whenever they want.
|
On December 05 2010 02:06 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:00 Falcon_NL wrote:
but the ONLY and I repeat, the ONLY viable counter toss has vs mutas is phoenix. if those get shut down by infestor play, what could toss possibly do? toss cant do robo AND stargate, thats way to gas intensive.
help me out on this one. Storm and clean up with Archons and Stalkers - which at the same time works against the typical Muta support ground units (Speedling/Baneling).
Archons and HT are both pretty slow so they are good for your big push against Z they aren't nearly as good at preventing you from being harassed to death.
|
On December 05 2010 02:09 Gudeldar wrote:
Archons and HT are both pretty slow so they are good for your big push against Z they aren't nearly as good at preventing you from being harassed to death.
If you push, he has to fight you. It's the same thing as with terran and marines + thors.
You delay the mutas from your eco line with 1-2 towers to buy your forces time to get there and defend and as soon as you got critical mass, you push.
|
On December 05 2010 02:00 Falcon_NL wrote:
Guys, lets be sane.
OK, infestor change may be bad for zvz and tvz, but the ONLY and I repeat, the ONLY viable counter toss has vs mutas is phoenix. if those get shut down by infestor play, what could toss possibly do? toss cant do robo AND stargate, thats way to gas intensive.
help me out on this one.
That's not true at all, on either count.
1. Many players use a gateway heavy army to deal with mutas. They actually split and control their units well to minimize losses until they get blink at which point they can use some opportunities to push and force mutas back.
2. Many players go stargate -> robo by making some phoenixes, then cutting production to focus on robo. If their opponent gets out corruptors they can use their stargate again to get enough forces to strain the corruptors. Corruptors vs colossi is SIGNIFICANTLY more gas intensive for the zerg player than it is for the Protoss. You generally need 10-12 corruptors (1k-1.2k gas) to deal with a 3+ colossi count (600 gas) if there's a notable # of supporting gateway units*. It's even worse if phoenixes are around. You have to remember that the zerg player doesn't need to kill the colossi. They need to kill the colossi almost instantly or before engaging with ground forces. If an even remotely even battle goes on for as little as 10 seconds where there are 3+ colossi up positioned well and firing the zerg player is probably going to lose it.
*Plus you need gas for the units to deal with the gateway units while the protoss player can mix in zealots to add more HP to their force.
|
Holding down the keys change seems a bit strange. It affects zerg a lot, protoss a bit and terran not at all. I don't see the reason for it. Zerg already has what most people agree to be the least forgiving macro mechanic in the queen's larvae spawn. Making macro harder won't really affect the top tier of players who have 200+ apm anyway but really impact those struggling with macro anyway.
Really don't like the change.
|
On December 05 2010 02:04 Quotidian wrote:
About FG not hitting air, It's not like we don't know what it will be like, even if this patch isn't out yet. There was a period in the beta when they didn't hit air, and it didn't seem unreasonable when they couldn't. And then it made absolute gameplay sense when they gave them the ability to hit air, even if the infestor became so much more powerful because of it.
I basically don't see why blizzard are flip-flopping on the issue.
That was NP that couldn't hit air for a while. According to the wiki FG has always hit air units.
In my experience the holding key thing was maybe .1-.5 seconds faster than having a good spam. Only in some extreme cases (replacing a 200/200 army) would you maybe save a notable amount of time. It was just nice because it let you not mash your keys like a madman.
|
On December 05 2010 02:14 theSAiNT wrote:
Holding down the keys change seems a bit strange. It affects zerg a lot, protoss a bit and terran not at all. I don't see the reason for it. Zerg already has what most people agree to be the least forgiving macro mechanic in the queen's larvae spawn. Making macro harder won't really affect the top tier of players who have 200+ apm anyway but really impact those struggling with macro anyway.
Really don't like the change.
So you want to dumb down the game?
See it as a challenge to get better.
|
On December 05 2010 02:14 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:04 Quotidian wrote:
About FG not hitting air, It's not like we don't know what it will be like, even if this patch isn't out yet. There was a period in the beta when they didn't hit air, and it didn't seem unreasonable when they couldn't. And then it made absolute gameplay sense when they gave them the ability to hit air, even if the infestor became so much more powerful because of it.
I basically don't see why blizzard are flip-flopping on the issue. That was NP that couldn't hit air for a while. According to the wiki FG has always hit air units. In my experience the holding key thing was maybe .1-.5 seconds faster than having a good spam. Only in some extreme cases (replacing a 200/200 army) would you maybe save a notable amount of time. It was just nice because it let you not mash your keys like a madman.
I dont think thats what they were talking about when they were talking about holding down the keys as zerg. It still works on the PTR.
|
On December 05 2010 02:25 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:14 Logo wrote:On December 05 2010 02:04 Quotidian wrote:
About FG not hitting air, It's not like we don't know what it will be like, even if this patch isn't out yet. There was a period in the beta when they didn't hit air, and it didn't seem unreasonable when they couldn't. And then it made absolute gameplay sense when they gave them the ability to hit air, even if the infestor became so much more powerful because of it.
I basically don't see why blizzard are flip-flopping on the issue. That was NP that couldn't hit air for a while. According to the wiki FG has always hit air units. In my experience the holding key thing was maybe .1-.5 seconds faster than having a good spam. Only in some extreme cases (replacing a 200/200 army) would you maybe save a notable amount of time. It was just nice because it let you not mash your keys like a madman. I dont think thats what they were talking about when they were talking about holding down the keys as zerg. It still works on the PTR.
According to the first post they are saying "You need to hit D 10 times to make 10 drones.". Which implies it is exactly what they were talking about and my points are the same.
So you want to dumb down the game?
See it as a challenge to get better.
It doesn't dumb down the game. No one will ever have trouble mashing the keys to make multiple units. It's just more uncomfortable.
|
w00000t praactice league is sooo awesome xD
|
the master league won't affect me but it's cool none the less
|
On December 05 2010 02:23 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:14 theSAiNT wrote:
Holding down the keys change seems a bit strange. It affects zerg a lot, protoss a bit and terran not at all. I don't see the reason for it. Zerg already has what most people agree to be the least forgiving macro mechanic in the queen's larvae spawn. Making macro harder won't really affect the top tier of players who have 200+ apm anyway but really impact those struggling with macro anyway.
Really don't like the change. So you want to dumb down the game? See it as a challenge to get better.
That argument is old and tired and not even appropriate here.
Having a key repeat itself when you hold it is basic UI functionality. Open notepad, hold down the T key and see what happens. If you are saying that including very standard control functions is dumbing down the game, let's also remove the ability to move the mouse diagonally. After all, it would be more skillful to have to move it horizontally at first, then vertically. Free mouse movement is dumbing down the game!
There is literally no real reason why I should have to press Z 20 times instead of just holding Z for a second or two. After all, there is a tradeoff: holding the key removes the flexibility of inserting an overlord somewhere in between.
|
if you were on 3 base then mutas were unable to be dealt with with just gateway units. they could just move on to a different base if you group your units together or kill your units if you spread them out. phoenix are pretty necessary for 3 base or even two base when the natural and main are in awkward positions
|
On December 05 2010 02:23 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:14 theSAiNT wrote:
Holding down the keys change seems a bit strange. It affects zerg a lot, protoss a bit and terran not at all. I don't see the reason for it. Zerg already has what most people agree to be the least forgiving macro mechanic in the queen's larvae spawn. Making macro harder won't really affect the top tier of players who have 200+ apm anyway but really impact those struggling with macro anyway.
Really don't like the change. So you want to dumb down the game? See it as a challenge to get better.
so mashing a button like a monkey is less dumb then holding down a button and in the meantime doing other stuff?
With this change zerg macro will be harder to reproduce the second wave of units after the first falls since we can't queue up.
so in a fight you are basicly gonne mash a key rather then actual focusing on whats going on.
if that is dumbed down, yes dumb it down plz.
|
On December 05 2010 02:23 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 02:14 theSAiNT wrote:
Holding down the keys change seems a bit strange. It affects zerg a lot, protoss a bit and terran not at all. I don't see the reason for it. Zerg already has what most people agree to be the least forgiving macro mechanic in the queen's larvae spawn. Making macro harder won't really affect the top tier of players who have 200+ apm anyway but really impact those struggling with macro anyway.
Really don't like the change. So you want to dumb down the game? See it as a challenge to get better.
And by better you actually don't mean better.
|
did anyone get a name change?
|
i personally reduce my keyboard repeat rate to play zerg in sc2. now this is gone. FML.
|
On December 05 2010 02:35 omgbbq2 wrote:
did anyone get a name change?
name change?
|
I'd take these changes as is today just to get chat channels. I think almost all of them are pretty good though. For Zergs worried about losing the balance of power you may have missed the bug changes.
• The Ultralisk’s arc-shaped damage area is now centered at the front of the Ultralisk instead of at its center.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
