Here's the story. my AKA is tQsKuLLz and I was personally invited by Brandon, aka "FireFlash" to his cash prize $500 XBLGaming tournament. I felt quite privileged to be invited to this 64 player invitational and was looking forward to it. Finally, the ro64 began a week after the original participant list was announced here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171449
So my first round was vs player "Kizu" and he was a no show. I told this to Brandon who kept his status set on "busy" while casting each match one by one. I asked him how long we were to wait for late opponents but he did not give me a response for many hours. I saw a message from Brandon asking if my opponent had shown but couldn't respond since he had already logged off before I got to it. I checked the brackets and saw that my name had advanced to the ro32. So the day ends with everything in order.
But then, today, I hop on SC2 and start gaming. I see a broadcast from Brandon that the ro32 will begin in 10 minutes. I go to look at the bracket and am shocked to see eGLZGamer in my spot and my name removed from the bracket. I immediately message Brandon on SC2 asking why am I removed from the bracket. He didn't respond. I then went and opened the stream that he was casting on to check out the games and so I could see what he did with my message. I ask him again shortly thereafter am I still in the tourney? No response. I then say to him
"dude i see you ignoring my messages on ur stream. stop wasting my time and tell me if i'm in or not" His reply "yes"
Me, "ok i will b waiting ty"
So now I feel a little better but still confused as he goes on to begin casting the next game. I watch the stream and stuff without feeling too sure I was going to play or not. Brandon then broadcasted "everyone who hasnt played yet message me". So I go ahead and message him "yo, haven't played yet and a little confused. am i surely still in this thing?"
His reply, "yes"
Me, "ok. on standby then"
So I watch the rest of the games on the stream not at all convinced that I'm actually going to be playing still as I heard Brandon aka "FireFlash" talking about remaining matches and results without mentioning my name. The last game ends and Brandon closes out the stream. My name is not mentioned. I message him again asking why did I get removed from the tournament? He didn't respond and removed me (real iD) from his friends.
So here I am feeling confused, disappointed and mislead. I ask here for Brandon to come forward with a reason for why I was removed from the bracket while other players were added in who were not part of the original roster. Those players are:
Skillet Vansetsu Zelniq
Thanks for reading and may this never again happen in sponsored tournaments that involve cash prizes. Thanks for reading.
Sounds like a sucky situation to me, but still, what do you expect to happen now? Was there a buy in where you lost money or something? Shit happens and it just does not really seem like that big of a deal to make a whole thread about it.
Obviously Brandon was under a lot of stress trying to organise a 64 man tournament and stream it. I can empathise with his position, especially dealing with people who are trying to message him while streaming >< However this is no excuse to be a complete douche.
No doubt that LZ would bring in more viewers and activity to the stream, the tournament, and the tournament organizer, but doing this in order to get said activity is pretty bogus. I hope that he gives some sort of response, even if it what I said, the truth. Sorry to hear it, but like Chiss said, try to brush it off and do the best next time!
brandon is a slimey lil monkey aint he...damn you brandon!!!!! i play u think quick peeps so much on ladder its nUTs... btw wuts up w/ ur id on TL.. "tricksare4figs"... sounds uber gayzorz
edit: why the hell are you guys siding with brandon... clearly he's an asshole... if theres one thing ive noticed about posters on TL, is that once 1 person starts saying things like "no point in making a whole thread over this" EVERYONE else starts doing it too... its sickening rly... srsly if i was an attorney, id get hired by skullz and pwn brandons bitch ass in court
User has been warned for a history of poor posting
Since Round 64 was over and Round 32 started there is 0 excuse for him replacing you after the first round of the tournament. If everything in your post is true... then yeah... that's really messed up
Thats really bad behaviour and really not good mannered. I hate people running away from their bad behaviour just ignoring everything and not be able to stand their man and treat other people with the respect they deserve. hopefully he will learn from that and will improve
On December 01 2010 14:13 BobbyPG wrote: No doubt that LZ would bring in more viewers and activity to the stream, the tournament, and the tournament organizer, but doing this in order to get said activity is pretty bogus. I hope that he gives some sort of response, even if it what I said, the truth. Sorry to hear it, but like Chiss said, try to brush it off and do the best next time!
Well here's the thing, LZGaMer and I were both in the original roster which I linked to in the OP. Did he lose in round 1 and get a second chance? I don't know.
Yeah replacing players mid tournament is very unprofessional. I would like to hear a statement about this. If we don't hear some explanations I don't think it's right for this tournament to be featured on TL any longer.
On December 01 2010 14:14 donut boi wrote: brandon is a slimey lil monkey aint he...damn you brandon!!!!! i play u think quick peeps so much on ladder its nUTs... btw wuts up w/ ur id on TL.. "tricksare4figs"... sounds uber gayzorz
edit: why the hell are you guys siding with brandon... clearly he's an asshole... if theres one thing ive noticed about posters on TL, is that once 1 person starts saying things like "no point in making a whole thread over this" EVERYONE else starts doing it too... its sickening rly... srsly if i was an attorney, id get hired by skullz and pwn brandons bitch ass in court
What is this?
No one is siding with anyone. One guy has posted an unsubstantiated anecdote in a thread. For all we know this was a mere oversight by the tournament admin or maybe the whole story was made up. Or maybe Brandon is a total jerk who bumped a guy out of his tournament for no good reason Until we have heard the other side of the story or some proof is offered up it would be an ill step to condemn anyone to the depths of internet hell.
that's really malicious. completely removing you from the tourney likely because you're not a big name, and then removing you from his friends list for... bothering him or something? there is no reasonable explanation for it. he owes you an apology, and that tournament needs better people running it.
I don't think this is the type of thing the TL community should represent. It is never "ok" no matter the "circumstances" to make another person waste his/her time sitting online over a game that he will inevitably not get a fair chance to participate in. The thought of him misleading you into wasting more time is even more sickening. If I were the other players I would boycott the tournament.
Just my opinion though. Good luck in future tournaments and I hope we don't see any more like this.
It's not much of a tournament if the admins don't run it fairly . that sucks if you really got removed for no reason but i would not fret over it. if the tourney is rigged in such a way it might not of been worth investing more time into.
Sounds to me like some "known" players decided they wanted to play midway through this tournament and some "exceptions" were made for them.
That being said, making those exceptions already puts this guys integrity in question, but being a total douchebag about it and making this poor guy waste half his day waiting to play some games takes the cake.
On December 01 2010 14:24 Plexa wrote: Yeah replacing players mid tournament is very unprofessional. I would like to here a statement about this.
Uh oh Plexa you used the wrong form of the word "here" . I think you meant the homonym form " hear " Also "mid tournament" needs a hyphen . What happened its only one sentence !!! . ( just joking .... I couldn't resist because you are admin
Yeah man that blows big-time . Completely unreasonable . If he was going to screw you over , he at least could have expedited the process .
On December 01 2010 14:24 Plexa wrote: Yeah replacing players mid tournament is very unprofessional. I would like to hear a statement about this.
fixed for you :3
On topic: that really sucks man; it's especially unprofessional if he's added well known gamers to replace other people. It almost seems like a ploy to get more attention to his tournament. Whatever his reasons may be, I feel that it's unacceptable for him to do this without even giving you a reason.
^I'm believing your story here plz don't turn out to be a troll
On December 01 2010 14:14 donut boi wrote: brandon is a slimey lil monkey aint he...damn you brandon!!!!! i play u think quick peeps so much on ladder its nUTs... btw wuts up w/ ur id on TL.. "tricksare4figs"... sounds uber gayzorz
edit: why the hell are you guys siding with brandon... clearly he's an asshole... if theres one thing ive noticed about posters on TL, is that once 1 person starts saying things like "no point in making a whole thread over this" EVERYONE else starts doing it too... its sickening rly... srsly if i was an attorney, id get hired by skullz and pwn brandons bitch ass in court
What is this?
No one is siding with anyone. One guy has posted an unsubstantiated anecdote in a thread. For all we know this was a mere oversight by the tournament admin or maybe the whole story was made up. Or maybe Brandon is a total jerk who bumped a guy out of his tournament for no good reason Until we have heard the other side of the story or some proof is offered up it would be an ill step to condemn anyone to the depths of internet hell.
uhh, its definitely not an unsubstantiated anecdote, maybe you should read the post and the links. TQskullz is clearly listed in the players in tournament section then is mysteriously absent from the bracket, at least this much is easily verifiable, he was indeed removed from the tournament.
First, let me say I know nothing of this situation besides what is in the original post and what I found clicking the tourney link. My post is in essence a summary.
1. The original poster says "my AKA is tQsKuLLz " 2. TQsKuLLz is listed as a player on the tournaments forum page on the TL boards. 3. The original poster says he was to play "Kizu" in the first round. 4. The tournament's bracket says Kizu lost 2-0 to EGLzGamer in the first round 5. TQsKuLLz is not listed on the tournament's bracket. 6. There is one no show listed on the tournament bracket.
Once again - I know nothing about the actual truth of any of the above statements. Those are things I found in the original post and the links to other information on the tournament.
the OP mentions that he checked his stream and saw Brandon ignoring his messages. Perhaps the video of the stream at that particular time can be viewed to confirm?
On December 01 2010 14:21 Sanasante wrote: Since Round 64 was over and Round 32 started there is 0 excuse for him replacing you after the first round of the tournament. If everything in your post is true... then yeah... that's really messed up
this; i dont understand why some people are supporting the streamer here
On December 01 2010 14:14 donut boi wrote: brandon is a slimey lil monkey aint he...damn you brandon!!!!! i play u think quick peeps so much on ladder its nUTs... btw wuts up w/ ur id on TL.. "tricksare4figs"... sounds uber gayzorz
edit: why the hell are you guys siding with brandon... clearly he's an asshole... if theres one thing ive noticed about posters on TL, is that once 1 person starts saying things like "no point in making a whole thread over this" EVERYONE else starts doing it too... its sickening rly... srsly if i was an attorney, id get hired by skullz and pwn brandons bitch ass in court
What is this?
No one is siding with anyone. One guy has posted an unsubstantiated anecdote in a thread. For all we know this was a mere oversight by the tournament admin or maybe the whole story was made up. Or maybe Brandon is a total jerk who bumped a guy out of his tournament for no good reason Until we have heard the other side of the story or some proof is offered up it would be an ill step to condemn anyone to the depths of internet hell.
uhh, its definitely not an unsubstantiated anecdote, maybe you should read the post and the links. TQskullz is clearly listed in the players in tournament section then is mysteriously absent from the bracket, at least this much is easily verifiable, he was indeed removed from the tournament.
Yes he was removed from the tournament, but that doesn't prove that this was done solely to seat a more well know player.
I'm not saying I think he's a liar, or that such an occurrence is impossible. But for all we know the admin removed him for a completely legitimate reason. Or maybe not, but that's why we need more info on what happened. I think we should let the tournament admin tell his side of the story before we break out the e-torches and e-pitchforks.
On December 01 2010 14:40 Smurphy wrote: First, let me say I know nothing of this situation besides what is in the original post and what I found clicking the tourney link. My post is in essence a summary.
1. The original poster says "my AKA is tQsKuLLz " 2. TQsKuLLz is listed as a player on the tournaments forum page on the TL boards. 3. The original poster says he was to play "Kizu" in the first round. 4. The tournament's bracket says Kizu lost 2-0 to EGLzGamer in the first round 5. TQsKuLLz is not listed on the tournament's bracket. 6. There is one no show listed on the tournament bracket.
Once again - I know nothing about the actual truth of any of the above statements. Those are things I found in the original post and the links to other information on the tournament.
I added Kizu as a character friend. Anyone can add him by going to the list of original participants in the OP link. Kizu did not play LZGamer in this tournament. His last game played was 2v2 three hours before check in of the ro64. I was waiting for him to log on and he still hasn't logged on since.
On December 01 2010 14:14 donut boi wrote: brandon is a slimey lil monkey aint he...damn you brandon!!!!! i play u think quick peeps so much on ladder its nUTs... btw wuts up w/ ur id on TL.. "tricksare4figs"... sounds uber gayzorz
edit: why the hell are you guys siding with brandon... clearly he's an asshole... if theres one thing ive noticed about posters on TL, is that once 1 person starts saying things like "no point in making a whole thread over this" EVERYONE else starts doing it too... its sickening rly... srsly if i was an attorney, id get hired by skullz and pwn brandons bitch ass in court
What is this?
No one is siding with anyone. One guy has posted an unsubstantiated anecdote in a thread. For all we know this was a mere oversight by the tournament admin or maybe the whole story was made up. Or maybe Brandon is a total jerk who bumped a guy out of his tournament for no good reason Until we have heard the other side of the story or some proof is offered up it would be an ill step to condemn anyone to the depths of internet hell.
uhh, its definitely not an unsubstantiated anecdote, maybe you should read the post and the links. TQskullz is clearly listed in the players in tournament section then is mysteriously absent from the bracket, at least this much is easily verifiable, he was indeed removed from the tournament.
Yes he was removed from the tournament, but that doesn't prove that this was done solely to seat a more well know player.
I'm not saying I think he's a liar, or that such an occurrence is impossible. For all we know the admin removed him for a completely legitimate reason. Or maybe not, but that's why we need more info on what happened. I think we should let the tournament admin tell his side of the story before we break out the e-torches and e-pitchforks.
From being there it was pretty much inexcusable. He simply replied with "yes" and/or ignored him. Check it out on the vod before he edits it out. All he had to do was tell him he thought he wasnt playing anymore.....instead he didnt so that obviously wasnt the case. Pretty bogus. Then to f remove is ROFL
From what I saw watching the stream earlier, i did see Brandon delete multiple Real ID friends mid tournament, and simply exiting chat conversations without responding or hardly looking at them.
Whether he actually meant for this to happen, had too much on his hand or whatever, just PLEASE if YOU are running a tournament, YOU need to run that tournament and NOT be the caster/streamer at the same time. ESPECIALLY when players have to wait around 2/3 hours just to play their game. This is absurd if you think this is how you run a tournament.
Whatever the outcome of this, just take the above advice please... it will allow for tournaments to run far smoother.
man that really sucks bro. i hope that never happens to me or anyone I know. that really sucks man... If what you stated is true, I think that the players should boycott the tournament until Brandon responds and tells his side of the story.
My best guess is that they made a mistake somewhere, accepted more people into the tournament than can hold, and had trouble resolving it. Running a tournament is not an easy task. It requires far more multitasking than sc2, and when you have too many things to deal with, sometimes you may be forced to ignore people. I don't think they were deliberately trying to be unprofessional, they probably just had poor planning combined with unanticipated complications. When this happens, the best thing you can do is to be as cooperative as you can. If that means that you no longer have a spot in the tournament, then you have to accept it. Even though you don't get the tournament experience that you came for, do your best to make sure that everyone else in the tournament does.
On December 01 2010 14:51 skYfiVe wrote: From what I saw watching the stream earlier, i did see Brandon delete multiple Real ID friends mid tournament, and simply exiting chat conversations without responding or hardly looking at them.
Whether he actually meant for this to happen, had too much on his hand or whatever, just PLEASE if YOU are running a tournament, YOU need to run that tournament and NOT be the caster/streamer at the same time. ESPECIALLY when players have to wait around 2/3 hours just to play their game. This is absurd if you think this is how you run a tournament.
Whatever the outcome of this, just take the above advice please... it will allow for tournaments to run far smoother.
Yeah I saw that too. There were people msg'ing him asking him a question about opponents or something but he exited the convo instead of answering :S
On December 01 2010 14:24 Plexa wrote: Yeah replacing players mid tournament is very unprofessional. I would like to hear a statement about this. If we don't hear some explanations I don't think it's right for this tournament to be featured on TL any longer.
Hell yeah. I agree completely with this. And love seeing TL stand up against this kind-o-shit.
Sorry bro about hearing that. Dont get too caught up in it and make sure to keep your head up!
that is really tough for you man. I know as a tourney organizer that it is almost impossible to do everything BUT that does not excuse this sort of behaviour. If this is really how it went down, there is some serious problems with the organizers and they really need to look at how they are going about this
To be honest I wish Teamliquid had a "tournament guideline" that people tournament hosts must adhere to in order to be featured on the tournament page. Or even be able to advertise it on the TL forums.
On December 01 2010 14:52 Chairman Ray wrote: My best guess is that they made a mistake somewhere, accepted more people into the tournament than can hold, and had trouble resolving it. Running a tournament is not an easy task. It requires far more multitasking than sc2, and when you have too many things to deal with, sometimes you may be forced to ignore people. I don't think they were deliberately trying to be unprofessional, they probably just had poor planning combined with unanticipated complications. When this happens, the best thing you can do is to be as cooperative as you can. If that means that you no longer have a spot in the tournament, then you have to accept it. Even though you don't get the tournament experience that you came for, do your best to make sure that everyone else in the tournament does.
Did you fully read the post?? It wasn't some random tournament, this was an "invitational tourny for money". Also, he was very cooperative as he said and other witnesses confirmed this through the stream. The bracket was already made and there is no changing it past the first round far as I'm concerned.
Bad move by Brandon, Sorry to hear it but you're probably not going to get a statement. He saw EG and I guess figured you didn't show along with Kizu and you were replaced. Obviously this wasn't the case. But he felt like ignoring the matter. Clearly he needs help running the tournament so it can stay organized.
how exactly was my post poor... is it cuz i dont capitalize the first word of my sentences? just to save milliseconds? srsly that came from the heart, u cant prohibit true emotion... grammar nazis these days...
On December 01 2010 14:59 adrenaLinG wrote: To be honest I wish Teamliquid had a "tournament guideline" that people tournament hosts must adhere to in order to be featured on the tournament page. Or even be able to advertise it on the TL forums.
Not all guidelines need to be written down, honestly. Common sense dictates that if you run your tournament poorly, the community will shit all over it and you won't be featured for long.
There are 6 hours of Ro64 VODs posted on the tournament's TL forum post page. Perhaps there is a moment where the messages pop up somewhere? I have no personal desire to dig through them all.
What an asshole, I'll be sure to never watch that stream again.
Unless adequate explanation is given it would actually please me greatly to see this guy banned from tl.net. This is much worse than some shitty posting.
(I tend to believe everything the OP says just based on how well he explained himself)
In the fighting game scene I remember some players would host a tournament while competing in it. Similar to hosting a tournament while casting, it just plain doesn't work at all. People will have questions and they'll have to wait for you to finish. It makes for a very unprofessional tournament. You just need to get someone to help you run it.
It sounds like that's what happened here. He just wanted to get through the round without pausing to deal with everything because he was needed to cast every match. This should have been avoided.
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
Nov 30, 00:06 EST XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for TQsKuLLz.964 over Kizu.505.
lol... This is pretty blatant that he messed up and wont respond, most likely, trying to avoid the subject.
I still want to know if TL will let him post tourneys etc ehre anymore after this..
I'm not going to do anything until I see a statement, I've sent him a PM requesting one. If he doesn't respond then it's probably best to defeature his tournament until he does, and if the allegations are true then I don't think it's right for him to have his tournament featured on TL ever.
On December 01 2010 14:52 Chairman Ray wrote: My best guess is that they made a mistake somewhere, accepted more people into the tournament than can hold, and had trouble resolving it. Running a tournament is not an easy task. It requires far more multitasking than sc2, and when you have too many things to deal with, sometimes you may be forced to ignore people. I don't think they were deliberately trying to be unprofessional, they probably just had poor planning combined with unanticipated complications. When this happens, the best thing you can do is to be as cooperative as you can. If that means that you no longer have a spot in the tournament, then you have to accept it. Even though you don't get the tournament experience that you came for, do your best to make sure that everyone else in the tournament does.
Ray, I know you personally and respect you but your analysis of the situation is completely off-base. I have run tournaments and it's not as difficult as some people make it out to be, Challonge pretty much takes care of the work for you. Your attitude of "suck it up" may be appropriate if it was an online weekly tourney with no prize, but an invite-only tournament when the organizer personally invites you, gives you a bye when your opponent doesn't show, and then replaces you is a completely different matter.
On December 01 2010 14:59 adrenaLinG wrote: To be honest I wish Teamliquid had a "tournament guideline" that people tournament hosts must adhere to in order to be featured on the tournament page. Or even be able to advertise it on the TL forums.
second that . but how could they keep that observed consistently , and still maintain a constant variety of favoritism , elitism , and hypocrisy
EDIT : still, seems rather obvious now that you said it .
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players.
no it's not
wtf are u talking about
anyone can make a page that records brackets, and a simple txt file of players names with real ids
From what I understand he did this in his previous tournament, too (someone in the tourney was telling me about it at the time). I was surprised that no one complained.
On December 01 2010 14:50 habbey wrote: @toast sure, i just took your initial post as saying everything he was saying was conjecture which isn't true, perhaps i misunderstood.
It's cool, I'm just glad that you understand my point, people sometimes are too quick to jump to conclusions.
On December 01 2010 15:04 Smurphy wrote: There are 6 hours of Ro64 VODs posted on the tournament's TL forum post page. Perhaps there is a moment where the messages pop up somewhere? I have no personal desire to dig through them all.
Several people have mentioned this including the OP, they may be able to narrow down where this was located.
But it would still be nice to hear from the tournament admin.
despite the pressure...I've never heard something of this proportion, with the lack of response and ID deletes from Brandon, from any other admins of any other tournaments featured on TL.net. If what OP says is accurate...definitely never watching his stream.
On December 01 2010 15:06 travis wrote: What an asshole, I'll be sure to never watch that stream again.
Unless adequate explanation is given it would actually please me greatly to see this guy banned from tl.net. This is much worse than some shitty posting.
(I tend to believe everything the OP says just based on how well he explained himself)
I was about to post this. I see how there is a lot of pressure on tournament organizers especially if they are streaming at the same time but that is no excuse if the original poster is being completely truthful about what happened. After some of the posts in this thread it appears that his story is true as it has been established that Brandon both removed real.ID friends during the tournament that were asking him questions and the match between LZ (it was LZ right?) and the player who didn't show up were never played.
This is disappointing to say the least and I would really like to hear from Brandon about the situation. I certainly won't be watching the rest of the tournament.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
True, but all the guy had to say was "hey, sorry, complications came up and i had to mix up the tourney a bit, and a few people got removed, yourself being one"
Instead of "yes" twice when asked if he was still competing.
99% of the players out there would understand, and not be upset (disappointed, yes, but wouldnt make a deal of it), HOW he handled it is why a lynching is happening :p
Professionalism is a requirement for running a tourney, even if youre overwhelmed, hes WATCHING A GAME, not playing it. Its REALLY easy to respond (even when livecasting)...
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
Its still a dick move to basically ignore someone, mislead them/not inform them as to whether they are still going to have to play a game--wasting their time, and then not so much as apologize, removing a guy from your real id list and ignoring him.
OP, you could always try and contact his sponsors about the way he mishandled this event if you feel that badly wronged. It probably won't do much for you now, but it will certainly make them reassess the people that they let dole out their money.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'm making the assumption in this post that the original poster was originally scheduled to play against player K, K didn't show, the original poster was in the proper place at the proper time and messaged the proper people, the original poster was dropped and LzGamer was then given a 2-0 "bye" against K. I can understand being overwhelmed and making mistakes. However, changing the brackets, giving a player a bye, and dropping a player for no reason CANNOT be acceptable for mere "convenience" from ANY perspective.
Once again I'd like to add the "I assumed that" CMA statement.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
True, but all the guy had to say was "hey, sorry, complications came up and i had to mix up the tourney a bit, and a few people got removed, yourself being one"
99% of the players out there would understand, and not be upset (disappointed, yes, but wouldnt make a deal of it), HOW he handled it is why a lynching is happening :p
?? No, the players would still be pissed. It's an invitational which he already made into the ro32... then he was removed and replaced. It would still be fucking retarded if the admin "mixed up the tourney a bit."
Boycotting tournaments/stream/website until further notice. I hope this gets resolved peacefully. Honestly, by avoiding the problem he is making an enemy of the TL community. If he just admits his faults or explains himself, it would make things a lot easier on him.
I severely doubt LZ would take a "free win" just because the admin gave it to him. I'm sure it was a human error, and not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
No. I recently helped run a $700 tournament. We had some fuck ups, but we would NEVER replace a player mid tourney. That has nothing to do with being overwhelmed, that has to do with being an immoral hack. This couldn't happen accidentally as far as I see. There's a paper trail showing Skullz as a player, the event runner new this. You can't blame it on workload, it was intentional.
On December 01 2010 15:16 Malpractice.248 wrote: Professionalism is a requirement for running a tourney, even if youre overwhelmed, hes WATCHING A GAME, not playing it. Its REALLY easy to respond (even when livecasting)...
This.
Although you shouldn't be chatting while watching a game, at least get a co-host so you can watch and they can reply to people. I play in pretty small tournaments ($25 prize), and they have like 2 mods per division, which helps out a lot. But, really, you shouldn't be overwhelmed if you decide to run a tournament, ESPECIALLY if you've run one before.
That really sucks. (I am Skillet btw.) I originally applied for the tour and was even on the confirmed list. Then I was left out of the brackets and message'd Fireflash (Brandon) about it and he said he'd get me in and that it was just a mistake.
While running a tournament isn't easy, things like this shouldn't happen. I think the best solution is to make a thread on TL notifying players of the tournament well ahead of time. Once brackets are made (obviously) nothing should be changed except for substitution for no shows. Trying to cater to known players is fine when it comes to accepting players and making the order for the replacement list for no-shows, but you can't toy with someone's spot when they've been selected and done nothing wrong...
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
Nov 30, 00:06 EST XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for TQsKuLLz.964 over Kizu.505.
I made sure to check the thread beforehand, and when I checked, TQskullz was listed as a player.
Yeah I will also support the op by not watching his stream. That is just a low level move and just because the op is not some high level pro doesn't mean he doesn't deserve common courtesy of at least notifying him that he has been removed instead of just leading him on thinking he is still in the tourney, then following up by the cowardly move to remove him from friends and ignoring him
On December 01 2010 15:16 Malpractice.248 wrote: Professionalism is a requirement for running a tourney, even if youre overwhelmed, hes WATCHING A GAME, not playing it. Its REALLY easy to respond (even when livecasting)...
This.
Although you shouldn't be chatting while watching a game, at least get a co-host so you can watch and they can reply to people. I play in pretty small tournaments ($25 prize), and they have like 2 mods per division, which helps out a lot. But, really, you shouldn't be overwhelmed if you decide to run a tournament, ESPECIALLY if you've run one before.
i watched his tournament for a while he had co-hosts the entire time i was watching
(response and Vansetsu[the guy the OP says was added to the brackets])
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
Its still a dick move to basically ignore someone, mislead them/not inform them as to whether they are still going to have to play a game--wasting their time, and then not so much as apologize, removing a guy from your real id list and ignoring him.
exactly , I agree 100 percent . ( granted the OP is correct , which it sounds like it is so ) , giving the organizer the benefit of the doubt initially is not a problem for me . However, if the OP is correct , proceeding to string him along , then ignore him after stringing him along , and removing him from your friends list , becuase even THAT was too much work ; well that is just absurd. Here is an outlandish idea . I know its radical ,but bare with me guys . DO NOT try to do an unfeasible amount of work at once to the point of it radically-interfering with the way you treat the participants , and if you do mistreat someone , an apology is always an option , just a thought .
EDIT: ( It seems he decided the inertia was already moving in that direction, so may as well be as freaking rude as possible , way to be consistent bro )
On December 01 2010 15:25 DiracMonopole wrote: The fact that he very recently edited his thread means he is aware of this thread, and choosing not to respond.
(Plexa pmed him, so if he was on here to edit, he received the PM)
Last edit was 13:20, this thread was created at 14:00. And he's still on the TL.net list.
My bad, I was confused by the posts talking about how Tqskullz wasnt listed - I assumed it was on the thread here where he wasnt listed(where is is in fact still listed) and therefore the thread must have been edited.
Serves me right for not checking for the edit myself.
I thought it suspicious that he hadn't responded in 5 pages until I realized that this thread was only made an hour and a half ago. Hold your horses and see if he responds, kids.
I just find it funny that he hasn't posted yet. Just be mannered and at least respond to the kid. You took the responsibility to run the tournament - run the tournament. I hope this gets fixed.
On December 01 2010 15:12 Plexa wrote: I'm not going to do anything until I see a statement, I've sent him a PM requesting one. If he doesn't respond then it's probably best to defeature his tournament until he does, and if the allegations are true then I don't think it's right for him to have his tournament featured on TL ever.
Agreed. This is a very professional way of handling this.
Although, there's a great chance that the host will just respond: oh i messed up, forgot this, forgot that. totally wrong on my part. will make sure not to let that happen again ... which I think is complete BS.
On December 01 2010 14:52 Chairman Ray wrote: My best guess is that they made a mistake somewhere, accepted more people into the tournament than can hold, and had trouble resolving it. Running a tournament is not an easy task. It requires far more multitasking than sc2, and when you have too many things to deal with, sometimes you may be forced to ignore people. I don't think they were deliberately trying to be unprofessional, they probably just had poor planning combined with unanticipated complications. When this happens, the best thing you can do is to be as cooperative as you can. If that means that you no longer have a spot in the tournament, then you have to accept it. Even though you don't get the tournament experience that you came for, do your best to make sure that everyone else in the tournament does.
Ray, I know you personally and respect you but your analysis of the situation is completely off-base. I have run tournaments and it's not as difficult as some people make it out to be, Challonge pretty much takes care of the work for you. Your attitude of "suck it up" may be appropriate if it was an online weekly tourney with no prize, but an invite-only tournament when the organizer personally invites you, gives you a bye when your opponent doesn't show, and then replaces you is a completely different matter.
another very well thought out post . this logic is undeniable ,and I agree wholeheartedly . If you cant do the work , dont have the tournament , or get more help , it is real simple .An open tournament for a mouse-pad is one thing , but a tournament you were invited to with 5 bills on the line , and several hours of YOUR time waiting for nothing more than to be rudely blown off , is completely unreasonable to be profusely- euphemistic . Given the fact he showed no remorse , offered no apology , and intentionally ignored the issue after wards is beyond fail . Well I hope you do not want this to be standard practice in an invite only tourney to put it simply . The industry is already designed to prop up those with names , and make it easier for them to make money at e-sports , without having poeple sabotage unknowns chances to get known
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a scam appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the scammer to find more victims?
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Little extreme comparison, this isn't nearly the same as a rape scenario.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Doing something like this would make it not a tourney but paying for publicity. Tournaments have rules, rosters, and stick to them. Paying for publicity means you have money and you do whatever you can to get people to know you/your product using your money. Throwing some guy out for someone more famous means you're using your money to just try and get whoever is more famous on your stream for more viewers. Call it a showmatch if you will, or a series of showmatches, but that's definitely not a tournament.
I hope all of this ends up not being true but he sure has a lot of damning evidence to explain away.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
On December 01 2010 15:06 travis wrote: What an asshole, I'll be sure to never watch that stream again.
Unless adequate explanation is given it would actually please me greatly to see this guy banned from tl.net. This is much worse than some shitty posting.
(I tend to believe everything the OP says just based on how well he explained himself)
This right here , which I kinda eluded to with an earlier post . I personally have been banned for grammar issues alone , or being somewhat rude to a worshiped member . Yet this somehow is ok . Someone try to make sense of that
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
Often extreme examples are used to denote what actually happened... but I think that's a bit too far as well : P that said, I am curious about what mr. FireFlash has to say about this.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
yeah... Godwin's Rape Law? Just saying, you might have gone a little too far with that. We get your point though, but watch it a bit since there's a line you may have crossed for some people. Rape has some bad connotations that I don't think we need to pull into this. It doesn't seem like you were trying to incite hate or anything fierce of that sort, so I think you may want to tone it down a bit .
skYfiVe December 01 2010 14:51 From what I saw watching the stream earlier, i did see Brandon delete multiple Real ID friends mid tournament, and simply exiting chat conversations without responding or hardly looking at them.
Whether he actually meant for this to happen, had too much on his hand or whatever, just PLEASE if YOU are running a tournament, YOU need to run that tournament and NOT be the caster/streamer at the same time. ESPECIALLY when players have to wait around 2/3 hours just to play their game. This is absurd if you think this is how you run a tournament.
Whatever the outcome of this, just take the above advice please... it will allow for tournaments to run far smoother.
blade55555 December 01 2010 14:53 Yeah I saw that too. There were people msg'ing him asking him a question about opponents or something but he exited the convo instead of answering :S
Yeah i could confirm this one too.
adrenaLinG Canada. December 01 2010 14:59 To be honest I wish Teamliquid had a "tournament guideline" that people tournament hosts must adhere to in order to be featured on the tournament page. Or even be able to advertise it on the TL forums.
Agree.
OP, what doesn't kill you makes you a stronger SC player! yeah! Watching the stream i didnt notice your messages but for sure fieflash was dodging everyone. I wish he releases a statement on this.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
NO , he compared ignoring a rape that happened , to ignoring any given wrong doing that happened in general , He merely used an extreme to illustrate the point ; extremes are often useful this way . Easier to keep an extreme out of the Grey areas of relative morality , there isn't a lot of play morally to use as a saving grace where a brutal rape is concerned , thus is makes the logic stand out more .
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Little extreme comparison, this isn't nearly the same as a rape scenario.
Yes you're right. What I was referring to was a similarity how a victim might not speak out for whatever reason, which might cause more victims to appear, and the fact that raping can occur from a totally innocent motive, like inviting someone to your house (invitational tournament). Except the consequence is in a totally different level.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
You know this type of thing happens all the time at tourneys, If I was you I would just get my tourney fee back and talk trash so nobody will go to his tournaments again. I played at a TF2 and a Cod4 tournament and this team that knew the organizer lost their games or would just win 1 game (instead of the regulation 3 required) and they would still go into the next round. It pisses me off a lot when this shit happens but even more so since I hold Starcraft in a higher regard than lower popularity FPS tourneys. Its just depressing to see some guy get away with bs like this when everyone is just trying to have a good time.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
Sure, you can always be a douche if you have the money. I glad the OP spoke out, from the information in this thread it seems this wasn't the first time it happened.
What we merely trying to do is to confirm and warn other people in the community, if what OP said was true. This is same as what you would normally do when a rapist appeared, unless you prefer the victim to suck it up and let the rapist to find more victims?
Did you...did....did you just compare being booted unfairly out of a 500$ SC2 tournament with....with rape?
yeah... Godwin's Rape Law? Just saying, you might have gone a little too far with that. We get your point though, but watch it a bit since there's a line you may have crossed for some people. Rape has some bad connotations that I don't think we need to pull into this. It doesn't seem like you were trying to incite hate or anything fierce of that sort, so I think you may want to tone it down a bit .
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
I'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
yeah because adding a completely new player in is soooooo convenient when youre juggling in so many things at once, right?
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
Nov 30, 00:06 EST XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for TQsKuLLz.964 over Kizu.505.
I made sure to check the thread beforehand, and when I checked, TQskullz was listed as a player.
I looked at the player list, and I'm pretty sure tqskulls is no longer listed.
Well done Sherlock Holmes! I checked your information, the entry you mention is still there and it's obvious to me that the substantial part of the OP is true.
Seeing in different threads how Teamliquid is temp banning even renowned players, I have faith in TL taking the proper steps to punish the TDs behavior. This would also strengthen the OPs beliefe in justice, as the warmhearted responses of the TL-Forum-Members in this thread allready do. Dont let the cynical attitude win.
On December 01 2010 15:10 TheGiftedApe wrote: lol you guys are acting like its the end of the world, I'm not saying what brandon did was right. But it sounds like he was just overwhlemd trying to run the tourney and made a couple mistakes. It's easy to forget a player or two when your dealing with 20+ players. You should give him a break, it's not like you paid to enter or anything, he offered you a spot and he got sidetracked and let someoen else play cause it was probably more convenient. This guy does not deserve the death sentence for trying to put on a decent sc2 tourney.....Give him a break, try looking at a situation from more than just your own perspective, he wouldnt have invited you if he didnt want you to play, but obviosuly no shows made the scheduling difficult.
i'd like to see any of the haterz in this thread put on a 500$ sc2 tourney.
still not an excuse. he invited them. its not like the OP or the other players forced themselves into the tournament. its about being responsible. well he could still come out and explain, and apologize if indded it was error in his part. so far we have none of those, hence all this flak on him
I think the fairest solution would have been just to replace the no-show player with the new player (in this case lzGamer) and it would have been a win-win for both sides. Ofc. OP would end up meeting a tough opponent very early on, but its much better than being removed summarily from the tournament.
Edit: Just checked the logs on challonge
Nov 30, 00:36 VET XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for TQsKuLLz.964 over Kizu.505
Skullz gets a bye over kizu.
Now here is the funny part, The participants list still lists
39 GosH.412 - 40 Kizu.505 - 41 Zelniq.473 -
But out of nowhere TQsKuLLz is removed from the list and someone else ( LZgamer) is added in his place? I mean, this looks like the most retarded solution ever.... Any guy with half a brain would just replace the no-show (Kizu) in this case with a new player. Its JUST SO FREAKING OBVIOUS.
Hey, I think I found where he just x'ed out the chat windows, it's a bit after 1:07:09 and 1:54:40. You can see him read it then just close them really quick. http://www.justin.tv/xblgaming/b/274908235
Wow my condolences tQsKuLLz. I'm really digging how battle.net 2.0 leaves a "paper trail" for these situations. Also for all the other responders saying how most people are "overreacting"... a simple "oops... i messed up and apology and probably a solution made" would alleviate the situation. It is very likely that tQsKuLLz would not mind rejoining the tournament in some fashion or given a seed spot in a future tournament however there has been no response from the runner of tourney. Its just like most jobs or careers... you going to mess up at some point but the true professionals man up to their mistakes instead of trying to ignore or pass the buck.
On December 01 2010 15:56 Piledriver wrote: I think the fairest solution would have been just to replace the no-show player with the new player (in this case lzGamer) and it would have been a win-win for both sides. Ofc. OP would end up meeting a tough opponent very early on, but its much better than being removed summarily from the tournament.
He probably meant to do something like that, but when he did it accidentally removed the OP instead of removing the no show player, causing this problem.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say it was a noshow for NGry in r64
Wow, I didn't notice that. I only noticed the tqskullz log. Could there be any other discrepancies in the logs vs brackets? It doesn't seem so, since there's only one no-show spot, but who knows.
On December 01 2010 15:02 gurrpp wrote: The funny thing is FireFlash is trying to cover it up. He's edited the player list so tqskulls is no longer there. However, if you look at the log:
Nov 30, 00:06 EST XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for TQsKuLLz.964 over Kizu.505.
lol... This is pretty blatant that he messed up and wont respond, most likely, trying to avoid the subject.
I still want to know if TL will let him post tourneys etc ehre anymore after this..
I'm not going to do anything until I see a statement, I've sent him a PM requesting one. If he doesn't respond then it's probably best to defeature his tournament until he does, and if the allegations are true then I don't think it's right for him to have his tournament featured on TL ever.
It's good to see something is being done about this, I would be really angry if this happened to me.
On December 01 2010 15:56 Piledriver wrote: I think the fairest solution would have been just to replace the no-show player with the new player (in this case lzGamer) and it would have been a win-win for both sides. Ofc. OP would end up meeting a tough opponent very early on, but its much better than being removed summarily from the tournament.
He probably meant to do something like that, but when he did it accidentally removed the OP instead of removing the no show player, causing this problem.
The gist of the problem is he was a douche and didnt respond and try to cover shit up then f removed.
On December 01 2010 15:59 a9arnn wrote: Hey, I think I found where he just x'ed out the chat windows, it's a bit after 1:07:09. You can see him read it then just close them really quick. http://www.justin.tv/xblgaming/b/274908235
Good work. I might add that the exact moment is 1:07:19. Pause there and you can clearly see the OP asking why he is not in the bracket.
Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
Exactly , this is a non-profit tourney , probably receiving tax breaks for Best Buy , etc. This actually is a legal issue now that you have mentioned , he clearly violated fair play . IMO not something that is just " oh well crybaby , get over it " That kind of apathy here , would have been the last place I expected it by the way .
maybe he removed you cause you kept messaging him and bothering him while streaming, you can only do so much to get someones attention before you annoy them. I still side with you tho.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
On December 01 2010 16:10 AgresticRage wrote: maybe he removed you cause you kept messaging him and bothering him while streaming, you can only do so much to get someones attention before you annoy them. I still side with you tho.
um when you are running a tournament, a player has every right to bug the guy hosting it, if he isn't sure whats going on with his games. I mean if he didn't wanted to be bothered while casting he should've had somebody help him with coordinating the players.
It's pretty messed up he kicked you out so he could get a more well-known player (LZGamer) into his tournament.
It's extremely unprofessional; I don't think his tournaments should be streamed on TL anymore. He probably wanted a famous player in his tournament so as to attract more viewers. How tacky.
On December 01 2010 14:59 adrenaLinG wrote: To be honest I wish Teamliquid had a "tournament guideline" that people tournament hosts must adhere to in order to be featured on the tournament page. Or even be able to advertise it on the TL forums.
second that . but how could they keep that observed consistently , and still maintain a constant variety of favoritism , elitism , and hypocrisy
EDIT : still, seems rather obvious now that you said it .
Well, the admin will have to review the tournaments to detect such misdemeanor (if OP is truthful) committed by organizers like the Brandon guy.
Unprofessional conduct --> will not be featured in TL ever!
On December 01 2010 16:10 AgresticRage wrote: maybe he removed you cause you kept messaging him and bothering him while streaming, you can only do so much to get someones attention before you annoy them. I still side with you tho.
Maybe he shouldn't run tournaments then or have another person dealing with all the organizing? This is some horrible reasoning, don't host a tournament if you can't do it.
Oh and just for the sake of it, casting every single game like that is horrible, horrible to do. You're making the players wait for forever just because you want to cast everything. It'd be much smoother to cast replays. Another possibility would be to just schedule every game to be played at like, say, 1 hour intervals and then you cast that set and wait for the next set. This way the players wouldn't have to wait and so on.
This makes me so sad, that an tournament organizer would ruin his own name in something that can be as easily tracked as this. Good work OP, for telling us this.
On December 01 2010 15:02 donut boi wrote: how exactly was my post poor... is it cuz i dont capitalize the first word of my sentences? just to save milliseconds? srsly that came from the heart, u cant prohibit true emotion... grammar nazis these days...
User was temp banned for this post.
Hey, maybe this is Brandon in disguise? ~XD~ juz kidding.. totally not serious.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time , basically a subset of collusion
Yeah makes sense, I just am not aware of all the laws of other countries.
It is important for players to know that the tournaments they participate in are legitimate.
They also need to know that the prize money is given fairly to whomever performs better. If they can be dropped apart from the rules, then the tournament is completely fake, and the competition is completely invalid.
This doesn't surprise me...when an Asian guy he was casting on his stream went AFK he made a remark saying "He probably went to get some rice". That was my first impression of the guy and this thread confirms my thoughts.
omg, now you guys want to sue him, that will sure help build e-sports in north america, now that sponser's will fear being sued by the players lmao.
This guy messed up and did a horrible job organizing his tourney, He didnt commit murder. The OP even states that when brandon asked him if he ever got to play his game, that the OP DID NOT RESPOND! that right there is grounds for removal from the tourney.
brandon should be scolded and warned, but anything beyond that is ridiculous.
On December 01 2010 16:26 TheGiftedApe wrote: omg, now you guys want to sue him, that will sure help build e-sports in north america, now that sponser's will fear being sued by the players lmao.
This guy messed up and did a horrible job organizing his tourney, He didnt commit murder. The OP even states that when brandon asked him if he ever got to play his game, that the OP DID NOT RESPOND! that right there is grounds for removal from the tourney.
brandon should be scolded and warned, but anything beyond that is ridiculous.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
Yea, I think this kinda proves to be what everyone already assumed. LZGamer didn't show up for the Ro64 vs his opponent NGry. Now what should have happened, if LZGamer had a good reason for not making it to ask NGry if he would play LZGamer and let NGry decide to take the Bye or not. But, instead Brandon just replaces a guy he probably thought was disposable. He made a very poor decision and should have kept everything in fair play. Especially when money is on the line.
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
Mods can see a list of people who are "active" on TL... and Plexa's said that he was active on TL so should have gotten the PM already.
this isn't "messing up". this is being a dick. he didn't accidentally remove someone from a tourney, ignore said person, and then add a more known person
In his defence, my first impression of him was positive @ zeles. I also don't know if he was joking when he said what you heard. Let's not turn this into a thread bashing him because his mom might be ugly or anything else speculative and unrelated. He needs to answer an accusation of illegally eliminating an active player in a tournament that has a monetary prize pool that would open him up to civil lawsuits with demonstrable damages in the United States (not sure about other nations or where he is from).
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
Yeah we better hurry before the two years is up for the civil suit to be filed hehe
I hope this issue gets resolved and Brandon has a damn good reason for doing what he did. Yeah props to him for putting together a cool tournament but throwing fair play out and dropping an invited player without telling him in advance is a really douche move.
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
Mods can see a list of people who are "active" on TL... and Plexa's said that he was active on TL so should have gotten the PM already.
I didn't say that I'm watching his activity like a hawk
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
He has until the next broadcast for his tournament, that seems fair in my eyes.
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
Mods can see a list of people who are "active" on TL... and Plexa's said that he was active on TL so should have gotten the PM already.
Thanks for pointing that out. Just because he is active doesn't prove he will have received a message, but hopefully he will see it before he goes to sleep! I know that sometimes I just leave my computer on. Obviously I think this is a pretty bad situation, but if I have to I will start defending him because he does deserve not to be quickly judged.
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
Mods can see a list of people who are "active" on TL... and Plexa's said that he was active on TL so should have gotten the PM already.
I didn't say that I'm watching his activity like a hawk
On December 01 2010 16:05 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
He has until the next broadcast for his tournament, that seems fair in my eyes.
That sounds very fair. I sure hope this is all untrue. For once I really appreciate the active MODS on TL! Thnx Plexa.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
Yeah we better hurry before the two years is up for the civil suit to be filed hehe
it might be upgraded to a hate crime now, making it a criminal prosecution, because of his derogatory comments[1].
On December 01 2010 16:26 TheGiftedApe wrote: omg, now you guys want to sue him, that will sure help build e-sports in north america, now that sponser's will fear being sued by the players lmao.
This guy messed up and did a horrible job organizing his tourney, He didnt commit murder. The OP even states that when brandon asked him if he ever got to play his game, that the OP DID NOT RESPOND! that right there is grounds for removal from the tourney.
brandon should be scolded and warned, but anything beyond that is ridiculous.
I think your sequence of events is a tad bit warped here . Um first of all he didn't respond the first day (R64) and was advanced in the field regardless as his opponent did not show . The problem with the OP happened the following day AFTER he was advanced through the brackets into the Round of 32 . So let me get this straight , I am still painfully attempting to follow your thought process . From what I can gather your point is ; " he could have been booted the day before , therefor he is justified in mistreating him the following day ." Please clarify , becuase this makes absolutely no sense to me .
Besides reading the thread didn't anyone actually watch the stream? I spent a good hour of torture trying to watch my favorite NA players being unprofessionally cast throughout the entire night. I had enough and turned off the stream for state of the game/HuK. There was no synergy amongst casters and the fact that they kept overlapping and interrupting each other was annoying. Then he goes on a rant about how he is doing it for the love of the game and refusing donations but then asks for them?
I am sure running a tournament is an enormous headache, but even watching this one being cast was an absolute travesty and there should be no reason as to why it is on featured team liquid. Its crazy how many top players were training all day for this tournament and how poorly it was ran from organization to the actual live stream of matches.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
FYI, this isn't close to accurate. This isn't really collusion. The poker site issue is when people play together. Brandon's not doing this to make Lz gamer win. He's not doing this for a slice of the winnings, and his motive in keeping Lz isn't to upset competitive balance, it's to draw viewers. Not trying to sidetrack the thread, but I'd like to quash the baseless legal speculation.
Everyone else is already covered it, 99% sure he's hosed and if so I've been very impressed with your response Plexa. Nice to see you quickly stand up for the guy here.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
FYI, this isn't close to accurate. This isn't really collusion. The poker site issue is when people play together. Brandon's not doing this to make Lz gamer win. He's not doing this for a slice of the winnings, and his motive in keeping Lz isn't to upset competitive balance, it's to draw viewers. Not trying to sidetrack the thread, but I'd like to quash the baseless legal speculation.
Everyone else is already covered it, 99% sure he's hosed and if so I've been very impressed with your response Plexa. Nice to see you quickly stand up for the guy here.
FYI It is 100 percent correct , as I said it violated fair competition laws , then proceeded to state in which collusion is the more known subset member used by poker sites . Here is a tip , You may try to understand something before you disagree with it . Yes collusion is a form of fair competition laws . nothing I stated was incorrect , please demonstrate if it is . lol your speculation as to what the English words I used in the specific sequence, and their meaning is way off ; speaking of speculation . Now back up reread my post . then reread your response , and try to find where I say all forms of fair competition are forms of collusion .Or where I imply this was collsu8ion , or where I imply they are mutally exclusive or inclusive . Fail big-time . I can see you are trying to put words in my mouth . Try again , unlike you I have this bad habit of preferring to understanding something before I choose to disagree with it .I know I dont fit in real well here as a result .
On a side note the motives do not have to be singular for it to be collusion . Lz gamer can merely going for money , where Brandon is trying to attract more popular people , both have to be aware they are violating fair competition however . ( that is irrelevant however to my first point as I stated it violated fair competition , and merely added as a side note collusion is the more known member of this set of definitions . but the fact of the matter is . it DOES a violate fair competition laws . And I never said this would fit the poker sites form of collusion , you very unskillfully took what I said out of context . I merely said it falls under fair competition laws , just as this does . lmao some people like to argue so much , they look for them where they do not even exist . too funny
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
FYI, this isn't close to accurate. This isn't really collusion. The poker site issue is when people play together. Brandon's not doing this to make Lz gamer win. He's not doing this for a slice of the winnings, and his motive in keeping Lz isn't to upset competitive balance, it's to draw viewers. Not trying to sidetrack the thread, but I'd like to quash the baseless legal speculation.
Everyone else is already covered it, 99% sure he's hosed and if so I've been very impressed with your response Plexa. Nice to see you quickly stand up for the guy here.
You sound like someone skilled at the art of lawyering. Can you tell us a bit about the impending hate crime prosecution because of his insensitive racial comments and how it will relate and affect the civil suit?
Hahaha Nothing escapes the E-Detective Keepers of Justice known as TL!
To be fair, I want to hear the other side of the story before I boycott or have any personal opinions. I feel everyone should also be doing the same. Big Props to Plexa for taking something like this seriously, I'm curious to see what Brandon's explanations are.
On December 01 2010 16:41 dopesauce wrote: Besides reading the thread didn't anyone actually watch the stream? I spent a good hour of torture trying to watch my favorite NA players being unprofessionally cast throughout the entire night. I had enough and turned off the stream for state of the game/HuK. There was no synergy amongst casters and the fact that they kept overlapping and interrupting each other was annoying. Then he goes on a rant about how he is doing it for the love of the game and refusing donations but then asks for them?
I am sure running a tournament is an enormous headache, but even watching this one being cast was an absolute travesty and there should be no reason as to why it is on featured team liquid. Its crazy how many top players were training all day for this tournament and how poorly it was ran from organization to the actual live stream of matches.
I watched a lot of the stream. It wasn't great but it wasn't terrible either. Do we need to flame him for that here? If you have a general complaint about his streaming post it here:
Hopefully this is all untrue and he will improve as a streamer to the benefit of us all. If it is true hopefully he will own up, make things right, and TL will forgive him and we can all move on.
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
FYI, this isn't close to accurate. This isn't really collusion. The poker site issue is when people play together. Brandon's not doing this to make Lz gamer win. He's not doing this for a slice of the winnings, and his motive in keeping Lz isn't to upset competitive balance, it's to draw viewers. Not trying to sidetrack the thread, but I'd like to quash the baseless legal speculation.
Everyone else is already covered it, 99% sure he's hosed and if so I've been very impressed with your response Plexa. Nice to see you quickly stand up for the guy here.
You sound like someone skilled at the art of lawyering. Can you tell us a bit about the impending hate crime prosecution because of his insensitive racial comments and how it will relate and affect the civil suit?
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
The USA has something called Fair competition laws . They are implied in all money competitions
and for those who doubt collusion is a from of antitrust laws ,
( This is for the person r that seems to think collusion is not fair competition laws from what I could gather from his response , well he wasn't real clear as he took everything I tried to say out of context , but here you , heres a simple wiki link , gives a brief history on antitrust concepts go educate yourself ...
I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
On December 01 2010 16:52 Brandon33470 wrote: This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
Isn't the RO32 over already? What about the removal of the RealID friend? What about the complete lack of responses?
So many unanswered questions right now, I'm sure mine are just the tip of the iceberg.
On December 01 2010 16:52 Brandon33470 wrote: This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
Busy isn't the best excuse to ignore the players in your tournaments. But who am I to judge right?
On December 01 2010 16:54 Lz wrote: I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
-Jacob LzGaMeR Winstead~
Lz is so manner!
Sounds like the guy thought you were a no show (forgot he communicated with the OP) and isn't man enough to admit his mistake.
On December 01 2010 16:54 Lz wrote: I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
On December 01 2010 16:52 Brandon33470 wrote: This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
This seems like a very unsatisfactory response. Feels to me like someone trying to weasel out of something that they fucked up big time, without repercussions.
Like i stated in my other post as well, I am currently a manager of TQ as well and making them a website. As well as working with Zander for Tournamnet mods. I had 64+ whispers and streaming non stop and was just misunderstood at the time. I thought TQ was a no show from the Round of 64 when it was the other person who was the no show. Bracket has been corrected
Lz December 01 2010 16:54 I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
-Jacob LzGaMeR Winstead~
Brandon33470 December 01 2010 16:52 This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
On December 01 2010 16:54 Lz wrote: I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
I just read this entire thread, just because I felt sorry for tQsKuLLz and was trying to find an excuse for the organizer (Brandon) his behavior. Sadly, there was nothing really helpful and there were many posts from users who better did not post.
The fact that Plexa is on this matter makes me happy for the OP. But my bet is that Brandon will come up with a lame excuse in an attempt to shuffle this under the table.
Also, there is only so much you can do when you are a player in somebody his tournament. I have a feeling people are forgetting that. What I remember from this: 1) OP had a free win in r64 and notified Brandon. Brandon was busy and didn't answer this immediately. After a couple hours Brandon saw this message and asked to confirm. 2) In r32 OP got removed, maybe because he didn't confirm his freewin. But this would be unacceptable because he stated his freewin already, he simply didn't confirm it later. And he didn't confirm it because Brandon asked him several hours after he stated the freewin. 3) Extreme douchebaggery today from Brandon, ignoring the player completely. And this is what upsets me the most. If there was an exception, then Brandon should have answered (the screenshot) the OP immediately instead of closing the chat window. But Brandon told the OP that he would play later on in the r32. Thus, if OP really got kicked out then Brandon should be punished.
On December 01 2010 16:42 Broodwich wrote: Everyone else is already covered it, 99% sure he's hosed and if so I've been very impressed with your response Plexa. Nice to see you quickly stand up for the guy here.
Totally agree! I am also very impressed by TL's willingness to support the often ignored downtrodden!
You gotta give a better response than that. So what, you're gonna put him back in his place and pretend that he moved on through a couple rounds? That doesn't even make sense.
Running things by yourself was the exact advice this thread was trying to give you, and your response is 'I should have kept it to myself' ... Somehow I find this really ironic.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
The USA has something called Fair competition laws . They are implied in all money competitions
No, we don't have anything called "Fair competition" laws. That's a non-US term. We have antitrust laws. Please stop, you're sidetracking talking about something you don't really know much about.
On December 01 2010 16:52 Brandon33470 wrote: This was all a huge misunderstanding and TQSkullz will be put back into the actual Bracket. I had 2-3 Mods this time with me and I should of kept it to myself and ran things by myself. I will add TQSkullz back to the Bracket where he belongs.
I am sorry about the delayed response tonight TQSkullz as I was very very busy tonight.
Exactly what misunderstanding was there? You told Lz that you would give him a spot that was apparently available due to neither player showing up, then proceeded to ignore TQSkullz. There is a log of you reporting a 2-0 win for TQ? You say that you confused TQ for his opponent who didn't show, then you told Lz neither player showed up?
I seem to be missing something, so I would appreciate some explanations here.
On December 01 2010 16:48 bokeevboke wrote: Why $500 XBLGaming tournament is still on upcoming events? Why TL is still supporting those douchebags?
Read the thread yo. They're giving the tournament a chance to respond before acting.
however, this is an international event[1] and such a crime[2] would constitute a shock of the conscience and could be classified under peremptory norms, allowing for the use of preemptive action by way of opinio juris.
[1]: Streaming to global viewers a Korean e-sport that is widely popular across many nation-states in the international community [2]: It is even comparable to rape, see: furymonkey (2010, November 30). Removed without reason, beware!. Teamliquid Forums. Retrieved November 30, 2010 from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7145579
I actually stopped watching this tournament because of the way Fireflash was treating the players. He would completely ignore so many different people (I can understand ignoring random people , but not the players in the tournament he is hosting).
This may not be the right place to rant about this tournament, so I apologize if this is out of line. However, There was one specific instance which caused me to close the stream out of frustration. Fireflash was going to cast the game between AllAboutYou and Alej. He invited both of the players to the game telling them it would be cast. Allaboutyou requested to play later because he had homework. Fireflash tells him that's fine...and without letting Alej know of the situation he kicks him from the game, invites kawaiirice and streams his match. Alej messages fireflash asking what happened. Fireflash reads the message, then closes it without a reply. To me, that was completely unacceptable. He left one of the players entirely in the dark and confused about his match, right after saying he was going to cast the game. I'll never watch another tournament hosted by him. Maybe I'm being too extreme, but the way he treated the players bothered me to no end. This situation with the OP just enforces what I thought before.
Again, I apologize if this is the wrong place to rant...feel free to delete my post if it is out of line.
Yea there is still the question of him responding and telling the guy he was still in the bracket during the whole thing then ignoring and removing him.
I'd just like to say Thanks to Brandon for taking his time to run tournaments like this and be a presence in E-sports.
As for this thread, I'd be willing to let it all slide really, just take this as constructive criticism. We can all do some things better, perhaps in this case you should be more vigilant with the players in the tournament and how they are taken care of.
On December 01 2010 14:24 Plexa wrote: Yeah replacing players mid tournament is very unprofessional. I would like to hear a statement about this. If we don't hear some explanations I don't think it's right for this tournament to be featured on TL any longer.
On December 01 2010 17:04 Dog22 wrote: There was one specific instance which caused me to close the stream out of frustration. Fireflash was going to cast the game between AllAboutYou and Alejo (not sure if I have this name right). He invited both of the players to the game telling them it would be cast. Allaboutyou requested to play later because he had homework. Fireflash tells him that's fine...and without letting Alejo (again, not sure if this is the correct name) know of the situation he kicks him from the game, invites kawaiirice and streams his match. Alejo messages fireflash asking what happened. Fireflash reads the message, then closes it without a reply. To me, that was completely unacceptable. He left one of the players entirely in the dark and confused about his match, right after saying he was going to cast the game. I'll never watch another tournament hosted by him.
This basically sums up the poor quality of this tournament and FireFlash's illegitimacy.
I remove everyone after I see they are not on the bracket anymore. Its just something I do, this was just brought to my attention about TQSkullz. I apologize sincerely and actions were taken and Skullz has been added back to the bracket.
people we should all learn to forgive and let go. brandon already explained his side. He may be lying or not, bm, irresponsible, and unprofessional, but that's on HIM. just forgive (and mark for future reference). we are made of better stuff.
if i were OP, id say thanks brandon, it's no sweat. thanks Lz that was dude gesture. But it's yours now and i have moved on already. xd
On December 01 2010 16:54 Lz wrote: I dunno what to say about this.. I was contacted.. asked why i didnt show (and i wasnt sure what he was refurring too..) there is so many tournaments in sc2 its hard to keep track of everything you get invited too / signup for.. so he told me which tournament and i told him "oh sorry i guess i forgot" and he said there was alot of people who didnt show up.. and asked if i wanted to (take somone's place.. where both players didnt show up). So it seemed ok.. since it would have ment somone would have got a bye in the RO32. But After reading this.. I had no idea I replaced somone who did show up/expected to play in this tournament.
So i just wanna say I'm sorry this happend.. I will gladly Give you my spot which is actually your's in the first place. If you so wish
-Jacob LzGaMeR Winstead~
At least we can count on the players to act with integrity , way to go LZ
Our $1000 Invitational went perfectly fine last week with all these players in it as well. There was not one problem and the only problem of this entire tournament this time was the TQSkullz issue which was just brought to my attention and fixed instantly.
Yes I messed up, you have to understand one person running a 64 man tournament while live streaming the entire thing by myself and getting everyone lined up on a scheudle as well as casting can be very stressful. I made a mistake I admitted I made the mistake and I fixed my mistake
On December 01 2010 17:07 Slardar wrote: I'd just like to say Thanks to Brian for taking his time to run tournaments like this and be a presence in E-sports.
As for this thread, I'd be willing to let it all slide really, just take this as constructive criticism. We can all do some things better, perhaps in this case you should be more vigilant with the players in the tournament and how they are taken care of.
Let it slide as he's a "presence in E-sports", are you kidding me? If fans of the game can't even take this tournament seriously because of how unprofessionally it was run everyone should just move on because he's 'helping e-sports'?
This whole situation is beyond unaccapteble, and the 'clarification' Brandon provided is hardly adequate. "Oops, glad you told me you were left out of the tournament again, I was busy the other few times" is not bloody enough.
I recall you stating on your stream that you are basically the only one moderating and running this tournament, with the occasional assistance of a few moderators and casters alongside. Perhaps you can save yourself of issues and headache by investing into multiple moderators with segregated duties that can mandate certain portions of tournaments (i.e, bracketing issues, disputes, scheduling) so as to have a smooth tournament. I know of almost no successful tournament in any venue of life that is run by one person only.
(And feel free to correct me if I am wrong in saying that you are the only one with a gigantic majority of responsibility in this tournament).
ya... he is so clearly lying and trying to cover himself... so many things point to that. I mean why would you put on your bracket that a no show wins 2-0 over another no show? What in the world made you pick skullz as the "no show" that won? And the excuse "i confused him with his opponent" makes even less sense as the log shows he put skullz through originally on the bracket...
Along wit the other issues I sincerely hope TL doesn't allow the rest of this tournament or any future ones to be put on the calendar and especially not featured.
Our $1000 Invitational run last week with 64 top tier players went flawless with not one problem and I did the entire thing and streamed/casted myself untill the semi's
On December 01 2010 17:14 qosu.tQ wrote: Friend removes everyone in tQ, claims to still be a part of us, and then acts like he didn't remove skullz intentionally.
This really is hilarious.
Sounds like there is more to this story than what brandon is letting on.
I agree with Plexa that this tournament seems to be being run very unprofessionally. Brandon's posts so far have been extremely unprofessional, and showcase his personality as someone who just doesn't care about other people but still wants to look good in the public so he can continue to cast his tournament. I've never heard of this tournament until today, but after reading this "Brandon33470"'s posts, I have lost all respect for him and any tournaments he may run.
I can understand the outrage over this, but everyone with nothing constructive or helpful to add should just stop posting and making a big deal out of it. It's not helping flooding the thread with useless posts.
If you were watching the stream and have some helpful comments/evidence, then talk about it.
If you are one of the participants and have some comments about the tournament, post.
If you are one of the organizers, please explain.
Mods, well mods will do their job.
Everyone else, if you have nothing helpful to add, stop making the issue more confusing. Stop flooding the thread with useless posts. It's just making things worse.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
The USA has something called Fair competition laws . They are implied in all money competitions
No, we don't have anything called "Fair competition" laws. That's a non-US term. We have antitrust laws. Please stop, you're sidetracking talking about something you don't really know much about.
LMAO , YOU ARE ABOUT 3 PAGES Too LATE GENIUS , here try my second post or so , where I equate fair competition laws to antitrust laws , and by the way collusion and fair competition are a subset of antitrust , get a brain please , the difference iw purely semantic ( which ironically enough I already pointed out ) You remind me of my 5 year old niece walking into an adult movie way over her head mid-way through , and she pretends she knows what is going on . The semantic turn you just took is absurdly incorrect , lol , as I ALREADY USED THAT TERM LIKE 3 PAGES BACK . On a side Note I think a comic could get endless human behavior material at these forum type sites . The type of responses I see here never cease to amaze me . Please do not stop however, if you were to stop this type of nonsensicality , where would I get my daily explosion of sympathetic laughter .
On December 01 2010 17:07 Slardar wrote: I'd just like to say Thanks to Brian for taking his time to run tournaments like this and be a presence in E-sports.
As for this thread, I'd be willing to let it all slide really, just take this as constructive criticism. We can all do some things better, perhaps in this case you should be more vigilant with the players in the tournament and how they are taken care of.
Let it slide as he's a "presence in E-sports", are you kidding me? If fans of the game can't even take this tournament seriously because of how unprofessionally it was run everyone should just move on because he's 'helping e-sports'?
This whole situation is beyond unaccapteble, and the 'clarification' Brandon provided is hardly adequate. "Oops, glad you told me you were left out of the tournament again, I was busy the other few times" is not bloody enough.
Look man, the simple matter of fact is you can analyze and draw conclusions however you want them, at least he's organizing and running the show I'll give him credit and it's probably not as easy as it looks(hell if I'd know.) He's trying to make amends with every post, It can be that there was an ulterior motif to the actions but I doubt anybody can really "prove" any of it. Best thing to do is let it slide, if anyone is to be the judge let it be Plexa.
(For example, is it mere coincidence that Lz posted such a mannerly post nullifying the situation moments after Brandon made his post? Or is it Brandon getting Lz to help cover up the problem? Does it really matter?)
On December 01 2010 17:11 Brandon33470 wrote: Our $1000 Invitational went perfectly fine last week with all these players in it as well. There was not one problem and the only problem of this entire tournament this time was the TQSkullz issue which was just brought to my attention and fixed instantly.
Yes I messed up, you have to understand one person running a 64 man tournament while live streaming the entire thing by myself and getting everyone lined up on a scheudle as well as casting can be very stressful. I made a mistake I admitted I made the mistake and I fixed my mistake
I honestly don't see how you this issue was just brought to your attention. TQSkullz clearly tried to contact you but you ignored him and removed him from your friends list. It would appear you're only attention to this now because your name has been tossed into the open. But that stuff is not that important now. Point is if you're going to run a tournament of this magnitude you should be prepared for it right?
Alright. He really screwed up. But at this point jumping all over the guy won't improve the situation more than simply letting plexa look over what happened with all of this pointless ranting. In fact not clouding the waters is the best thing we can do at this point.
On December 01 2010 17:16 Brandon33470 wrote: If you don't want me here thats fine and I understand and I accept my punishment. I honestly made a mistake and corrected it. Thats all I can say
Not really, because things like this are bound to happen in a 1 man show with over 128 players to communicate with and organize. Why in the name of god are you against having help? AS stated above me, bring in other admins to do the behind the scenes work, contacting players about estimated times to show up, updating brackets, reviewing reps etc. I find it ludicrous to manage this beast of a tournament with $500 on the line all by yourself. You claim you can do a good job, but from all evidence that's not what has happened so far. I was a fan of yours in the beginning (for the $1000 tourney) but the arrogance and also disrespect for participating players has really driven me away.
I thought I was after running our $1000 Tournament with no problems what so ever
ROOTQXC won 1st Place Duffman won 2nd Place AllAboutYou won 3rd place
anyone who has played in my tournament I have ran or still running can vouch I do a very good job and I am always trying to answer questions on battle.net its just hard to answer all the whispers while live streaming a match / casting.
I think everything has come to light of the situation and the thread might derail into a bash on the tournament host (not that he doesn't deserve it) but it might be best to lock/close the thread now.
On December 01 2010 17:14 qosu.tQ wrote: Friend removes everyone in tQ, claims to still be a part of us, and then acts like he didn't remove skullz intentionally.
This really is hilarious.
Sounds like there is more to this story than what brandon is letting on.
Plexa, I'm curious what you expect of Brandon in order to fix this in the eyes of TL? It seems to me that if he fixes his bracket he should at least be allowed to continue on probation. Obviously we will all be watching him closely. I accept Brandon's apology, does skulls? Thank you LZ for being an awesome pro.
I think the point TL is trying to get at is why the confusion occurred in the first place, because it seems that there have been recommendations to have a staff for this tournament. Just because one tournament ran successfully last week, that does not mean that no adjustments should be made to future tournaments operations.
On December 01 2010 17:11 Brandon33470 wrote: Our $1000 Invitational went perfectly fine last week with all these players in it as well. There was not one problem and the only problem of this entire tournament this time was the TQSkullz issue which was just brought to my attention and fixed instantly.
Yes I messed up, you have to understand one person running a 64 man tournament while live streaming the entire thing by myself and getting everyone lined up on a scheudle as well as casting can be very stressful. I made a mistake I admitted I made the mistake and I fixed my mistake
All respect for you running a tournament, but this is hardly about that. You removed 1 player and replaced him with another one just to increase the esteem of the tour. And didn't even tell him, just trying some casual ignoring to see if he would go away?
You can't really claim you accidently removed a person from the bracket and put in lzgamer without realising it because you were under stress...
Imo you're spineless and an utter disgrace for in e-sports.
On December 01 2010 17:07 Brandon33470 wrote: I remove everyone after I see they are not on the bracket anymore. Its just something I do, this was just brought to my attention about TQSkullz. I apologize sincerely and actions were taken and Skullz has been added back to the bracket.
On December 01 2010 17:14 qosu.tQ wrote: Friend removes everyone in tQ, claims to still be a part of us, and then acts like he didn't remove skullz intentionally.
On December 01 2010 17:14 qosu.tQ wrote: Friend removes everyone in tQ, claims to still be a part of us, and then acts like he didn't remove skullz intentionally.
This really is hilarious.
Sounds like there is more to this story than what brandon is letting on.
Plexa, I'm curious what you expect of Brandon in order to fix this in the eyes of TL? It seems to me that if he fixes his bracket he should at least be allowed to continue on probation. Obviously we will all be watching him closely. I accept Brandon's apology, does skulls? Thank you LZ for being an awesome pro.
I just see Brandon posting about running successful tournaments and saying people have been restored to the bracket - that doesn't magically fix the situation. There are multiple issues to be addressed here (him supposedly removing everyone from tq from his friends list, other accusations of poor player treatment etc) and further I am interested to see what skullz has to say. To clarify, his event is still listed on the calendar and I haven't taken any action yet. I simply believe there is more to this story that what's been said and I'm not just going to close it because Brandon replied.
As well I agree with you Gulati. Like I said I was under a lot of pressure and stress tonight and I made a mistake and did my best to fix it here. I fucked up big time. Yes I accept the actions that will be taken against me and I agree with the way this is being handled. 100% even with the people who are bashing me. They all have very valid points. At this point there is nothign I can do besides fix the bracket like I did and try to move on.
We can speculate about the tournament organizers intentions all we like, but in the end we can't prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm reminded of a situation in my life where an employer, after working for them for 6 months, stopped paying me but all the while promised my payment was coming. Naturally I could only take the lies for so long before quitting. After their continued refusal to pay what I was owed I had to hire a lawyer, file paperwork with the state labor people etc etc. only to find that this was not the first time that this company hadn't payed one of their employees. In then end I did get the money I was owed but there were no repurcussions to the company. A man should not have to fight for something that is rightfully theirs. There should be consequences to those that take something of yours willfully or otherwise but the world is what it is. I'm glad to hear the "mistake" was fixed.
I could've sworn I've seen people like wysley for example, run 128 man tourneys alone? Maybe trying to find pros to replace people and all that money takes up all of Brandon's time?
Props to skullz for posting this information. I hope this encourages other players to speak out and not be internet bullied. The TL community has your back!
On December 01 2010 17:26 Tasty.280 wrote: I could've sworn I've seen people like wysley for example, run 128 man tourneys alone? Maybe trying to find pros to replace people and all that money takes up all of Brandon's time?
Cmon there's no need to make posts like these. Mindless speculation isn't good for anyone.
After reading through a lot of this thread i dont know how it can be written off as a mistake when there is a screenshot of you clearly ignoring the dude?
I'm still having a hard time believing that it was a mistake. There are inconsistencies between what Brandon says and what TQSkullz and Lz have said so far pointed out by several posts here.
Also, you are willing to contact Lz for not showing up, yet your response to TQ "not showing up" and asking for an explanation is ignoring him and removing him from your list?
On December 01 2010 17:25 Brandon33470 wrote: As well I agree with you Gulati. Like I said I was under a lot of pressure and stress tonight and I made a mistake and did my best to fix it here. I fucked up big time. Yes I accept the actions that will be taken against me and I agree with the way this is being handled. 100% even with the people who are bashing me. They all have very valid points. At this point there is nothign I can do besides fix the bracket like I did and try to move on.
You could address the issue of flat-out ignoring OP's inquiries, after (as the screenshot reveals) reading it. Stress or not, if a player is asking you why he got kicked out of a bracket you tell him, or fix the mistake ASAP. Would he even have been back in the brackets if he never made this thread? Your last posts have said "I ran tournaments, I made a mistake", but not actually anything specific.
I realize you will get a lot of whispers, but that's part of it. No organizer in anything will say "Well, I ignored phone calls and e-mails because there were so many!", it's just not enough. If there is too much to handle maybe you shouldn't be doing it on your own. Organizing an event that you can't run isn't anything to brag about, if anything you should see to it that you have enough manpower to run it in one way or another.
On December 01 2010 17:14 qosu.tQ wrote: Friend removes everyone in tQ, claims to still be a part of us, and then acts like he didn't remove skullz intentionally.
This really is hilarious.
Sounds like there is more to this story than what brandon is letting on.
Plexa, I'm curious what you expect of Brandon in order to fix this in the eyes of TL? It seems to me that if he fixes his bracket he should at least be allowed to continue on probation. Obviously we will all be watching him closely. I accept Brandon's apology, does skulls? Thank you LZ for being an awesome pro.
I just see Brandon posting about running successful tournaments and saying people have been restored to the bracket - that doesn't magically fix the situation. There are multiple issues to be addressed here (him supposedly removing everyone from tq from his friends list, other accusations of poor player treatment etc) and further I am interested to see what skullz has to say. To clarify, his event is still listed on the calendar and I haven't taken any action yet. I simply believe there is more to this story that what's been said and I'm not just going to close it because Brandon replied.
Plexa, I completely agree. Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully we will all hear from skullz and TQ. I did also hear him apologize, say that it is his fault, and that he will fix it. Anyhow, I'm going to nap till GSL, you're awesome Plexa.
Honestly I am done. I will let the mods / admins here at TL take whatever actions they must. I fixed the issue that was announced and all I can say is I will make a better effort in running the tournament properly. I am sorry to everyone in the starcraft 2 community for this.
Zerothegreat December 01 2010 17:21 I think everything has come to light of the situation and the thread might derail into a bash on the tournament host (not that he doesn't deserve it) but it might be best to lock/close the thread now.
agree. 1. close thread 2. admin organize some sort of inquiry involving the right people into the snafu (if only to determine whether the it deserves a feature on TL) 3. admin (or someone) mediate a discussion between skullz, lz, and brandon to sort out what to do (if it still matters)
So instead of telling him "hey wait ill talk to you soon" you lead him on to think hes going to play. I don't think this was a mistake. Why lead him on ? That was just mean.
Yeah I smell a lot of domesticated male Oxen dung in the area . But at least it is getting repaired after the fact . Still makes one wonder if anything would have been done if the community didn't throw such a stink .
On December 01 2010 17:30 Sein wrote: I'm still having a hard time believing that it was a mistake. There are inconsistencies between what Brandon says and what TQSkullz and Lz have said so far pointed out by several posts here.
Also, you are willing to contact Lz for not showing up, yet your response to TQ "not showing up" and asking for an explanation is ignoring him and removing him from your list?
exactly this whole thing really isn't making much sense
TL is here to help; I am quite certain you will be able to find an array of candidates begging to help moderate tournaments for you. Trust is a hard thing to find online (as evident by the problems going on in this thread), but it's always best to hedge your exposure by incorporating more administrators to run a tournament, because there is far higher minutia of detail with respect to accountability for actions, whereas with one person in charge, you can't kick him, because... then you kick out 64 other people competing for a prize pool.
To TL: I don't think it's fair to bash Brandon to the ground because of this incident, however I also don't think that he should be given a slap on the wrist and let free. The best way to handle this situation from my standpoint is to incorporate a staff to manage your tournaments, and to reply to Plexa's requested information.
In my eyes, doing the above-stated actions will exonerate you from anything I can think of.
On December 01 2010 17:32 PanN wrote: So instead of telling him "hey wait ill talk to you soon" you lead him on to think hes going to play. I don't think this was a mistake. Why lead him on ? That was just mean.
Because he was in the bracket. I have to talk with my mods and see what exactly happen. He was in the bracket when we started.
On December 01 2010 17:25 thecarmelizer wrote: We can speculate about the tournament organizers intentions all we like, but in the end we can't prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm reminded of a situation in my life where an employer, after working for them for 6 months, stopped paying me but all the while promised my payment was coming. Naturally I could only take the lies for so long before quitting. After their continued refusal to pay what I was owed I had to hire a lawyer, file paperwork with the state labor people etc etc. only to find that this was not the first time that this company hadn't payed one of their employees. In then end I did get the money I was owed but there were no repurcussions to the company. A man should not have to fight for something that is rightfully theirs. There should be consequences to those that take something of yours willfully or otherwise but the world is what it is. I'm glad to hear the "mistake" was fixed.
Doesn't have to be beyond resonance doubt in a civil case, only preponderance of truth hehehehe
On December 01 2010 17:32 PanN wrote: So instead of telling him "hey wait ill talk to you soon" you lead him on to think hes going to play. I don't think this was a mistake. Why lead him on ? That was just mean.
How much effort did you exactly put in before switching LZ in? Did you even try to see what the deal is with a no-show in an invite tournament?
Brandon... to solve all this and stop any undue hate it is very simple. Answer why you ignored a player in your tournament when he was specifically asking about his removal.
Mistakes happen. But trying to gloss over a mistake without a proper explanation will not help people trust you. Answer that question and hopefully everything will be roses again.
On December 01 2010 17:25 Brandon33470 wrote: As well I agree with you Gulati. Like I said I was under a lot of pressure and stress tonight and I made a mistake and did my best to fix it here. I fucked up big time. Yes I accept the actions that will be taken against me and I agree with the way this is being handled. 100% even with the people who are bashing me. They all have very valid points. At this point there is nothign I can do besides fix the bracket like I did and try to move on.
Heh you're not very good at being slick, although I guess you are putting in your best effort. It's pretty clear that Plexa is asking you to address the other allegations of misconduct which you are ignoring by stating that you've been successful in the past, and your attempt at apologetic humility isn't really convincing to anyone. I think in the eyes of the community here, you are guilty until you presume yourself innocent from the complaints. So... can you please go through the allegations if you want to clear your name? Starting with why you would try to remove skullz from your friends list or why you ignored that player who you kicked from the game without explaining your reasoning for its postponement (or even the postponement itself).
Because from a business perspective, you're obviously trying to keep your tournament with as much publicity and views as possible, and being featured on TL is a huge part of that. And as a TL member I would hate to see mishandled tournaments featured and would hesitate to click on tournaments as a whole if they were, which means featuring such a tournament would be a detriment to the site itself.
Most people only go the speed limit if police are around. It doesn't mean they all lose their drivers license. Let's be ready to forgive, and glad that the tournament hasn't ended already.
Locking the post and stating the course of action that Admins are planning to take might be wise.
I contacted Lz during the day asking him if he still wanted in because I had a no show advancement last night as Lz missed as well. I was simply there to cover incase of a no show and I believe I mixed the players up when changing the bracket. Like I said I have to talk with the mods as well.
I was stressed out tonight cuz comcast going down, response having to leave early and having a couple no shows.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
The USA has something called Fair competition laws . They are implied in all money competitions
No, we don't have anything called "Fair competition" laws. That's a non-US term. We have antitrust laws. Please stop, you're sidetracking talking about something you don't really know much about.
LMAO , YOU ARE ABOUT 3 PAGES TOo LATE GENIUS , here try my second post , where I equate fair competition laws to antitrust laws , and by the way collusion and fair competition are a subset of antitrust , get a brain please You remind me of my 5 year old niece walking into an adult movie way over her head mid-way through , and she pretends she knows what is going on . The semantic turn you just took is absurdly incorrect , lol , as I ALREADY USED THAT TERM LIKE 3 PAGES BACK . On a side Note I think a comic could get endless human behavior material at these forum type sites . The type of responses I see here never cease to amaze me . Please do not stop however, if you were to stop this type of nonsensicality , where would I get my daily explosion of sympathetic laughter .
Just stop. One of the two of us has passed the bar and is a corporate lawyer, and actually knows what they are talking about.
You, on the other hand, made rambling arguments that completely missed the point of my critique of your semantics and then hilariously bad mannered me in a way that's liable to get you warned.
So yeah, I'm not going to waste my time discussing this further or sidetrack the thread.
shit happened. brandon apologized and admitted his mistakes. lesson is learned. eventhough he hasn't the best personality in my eyes I think he can continue what he was doing, for the sake of esports.
Jesus christ you guys, leave the guy alone, he probably made the mistake.... it's even fixed now, why does everyone keep bashing him, it's not like he's ripping anyone off of their money or anything
he isn't doing anything wrong at all
and nobody bothered to ask themselves what would brandon gain from deliberately doing all of this..?
I feel people are just trying to stir up drama, not really wanting this situation to be fixed
Lz has earned exalted reputation with Lostshard. Well its good to hear that the tourney runner responded, however I agree with most not leaving a paper trail as a runner leaves a lot of questions for players and viewers alike. The good that came out of this is that Lz truly is a baller for offering to give up his spot and that Tqskullz helped point out things to avoid if one plans to run a tourney in the future. Also love the TL team for upholding standards ^_^
On December 01 2010 17:36 Brandon33470 wrote: I contacted Lz during the day asking him if he still wanted in because I had a no show advancement last night as Lz missed as well. I was simply there to cover incase of a no show and I believe I mixed the players up when changing the bracket. Like I said I have to talk with the mods as well.
I was stressed out tonight cuz comcast going down, response having to leave early and having a couple no shows.
Be sure to update us with what your mods said (I thought you were running this alone?)
On December 01 2010 17:34 Bobgrimly wrote: Brandon... to solve all this and stop any undue hate it is very simple. Answer why you ignored a player in your tournament when he was specifically asking about his removal.
Mistakes happen. But trying to gloss over a mistake without a proper explanation will not help people trust you. Answer that question and hopefully everything will be roses again.
If it was a mistake, he might actually not know why he did it. He may not have realized what he was doing. Sometimes I answer my wife and later realize I don't even know what she said: especially while playing Starcraft2...sorry honey
I had 2 mods tonight, Zoia in chat and Vansetsu in chat / casting after response left. I have to chekc with Zoia about the chat logs and see exactly what was going on.
On December 01 2010 17:39 Brandon33470 wrote: I had 2 mods tonight, Zoia in chat and Vansetsu in chat / casting after response left. I have to chekc with Zoia about the chat logs and see exactly what was going on.
Uh dude, the screenshot of you specifically ignoring your player occurred in the chat of the Starcraft II game client. Something tells me that's not going to appear in your stream chat.
On December 01 2010 17:37 Fayth wrote: I feel people are just trying to stir up drama, not really wanting this situation to be fixed
Somewhat agree at this point. The only relevant people here now are people with legitimate information. Here's what I'm going to do 1) I would like to hear from brandon about the other allegations, once he clarifies this I will.. 2) Lock the thread 3) PM skullz about what's gone on and see what he has to say about it, reopening the thread is there is still an issue 4) PM brandon to send me the information once he gets it from his mods, which I will post in this thread as an update 5) If anyone has an relevant information to this please PM me and we can go from there
On December 01 2010 17:37 bokeevboke wrote: shit happened. brandon apologized and admitted his mistakes. lesson is learned. eventhough he hasn't the best personality in my eyes I think he can continue what he was doing, for the sake of esports.
shit happened indeed. the only thing left is to find whether it was really just a innocent mistake or is there more behind it. honestly his way of handling the tournament makes so sense to me whatsoever but that's just my opinion. up to the mods to decide on this one.
On December 01 2010 17:27 OwMyGroin wrote: uhh yeah also you gave incontrol a walkover vs me when i couldnt add him maybe cause his identifier is wrong or something and he also did not contact me and when i messaged you i had got no response.
Yet another allegation needing to be answered. Were you too "stressed"?
Guilty or not this could serve as a warning to work better at setting up tournaments or about dropping players. I feel like this thread is beating a dead horse, lets give him the benefit of the doubt as he has hosted multiple tournaments on teamliquid. The issue is fixed for now and perhaps if a similar situation happens again then take action?
On December 01 2010 17:37 Fayth wrote: I feel people are just trying to stir up drama, not really wanting this situation to be fixed
Somewhat agree at this point. The only relevant people here now are people with legitimate information. Here's what I'm going to do 1) I would like to hear from brandon about the other allegations, once he clarifies this I will.. 2) Lock the thread 3) PM skullz about what's gone on and see what he has to say about it, reopening the thread is there is still an issue 4) PM brandon to send me the information once he gets it from his mods, which I will post in this thread as an update 5) If anyone has an relevant information to this please PM me and we can go from there
InControL was trying to contact him a week before the actual start date, to play. InControL could not play the night of the Round of 64 so I told him to play the week before and informed OwmyGroin. InControL said he tried day after day to get ahold of him and he wouldnt respond/wasn't on. Follow up with InControL if you would like.
On December 01 2010 17:27 OwMyGroin wrote: uhh yeah also you gave incontrol a walkover vs me when i couldnt add him maybe cause his identifier is wrong or something and he also did not contact me and when i messaged you i had got no response.
Yet another allegation needing to be answered. Were you too "stressed"?
InControL was not on tonight for his matchup so yes, I advanced without him. Didn't show up till almost 11:30 PM Eastern. Didn't leave a message on my facebook which he has or anything. I had to conclude it as a no show.
Why did you remove tqskullz from your friendlist? and if it was during the tournament, no idea how you could find the time to do that considering how stressed out you were
It was after the tournament round was over, I take the players who are not in the bracket and remove them because I am at my Real ID Friends List Limit.
I would simply call for better treatment of participants in tourneys from now on. It is ridiculous for me to sit there and think that I'm annoying Brandon or something when I have no choice but to message him to ask why in the world I'm not in the bracket.
as for the tournament, I am not interested in this particular tournament anymore because I did get brushed off by Brandon in a very rude manner. The ro32 was over and after it was over I asked why I got removed and his response was to remove me from his real ID friends with no explanations given to anything. On top of that he mislead me into thinking I would still be playing which is just even more disrespectful and then ignores me completely after its all over. Sorry but that's DISRESPECT to other people and their time.
Also, it's a good idea to let some wild card players into the invitational tournaments. Not being known doesn't make them a poor player. Unknown skill needs opportunity. This closed circuit stuff is frustrating for a lot of players.
I think you guys should give him a break. Yeah he fucked up, but everyones human and obviously he has proven to have the dedication for success in previous events. So he's doing the best he can to remedy the situation - what do you guys want from him? Skullz, I feel for you man and I would be really pissed if that happened to me. But what you originally asked for and wanted was just for things to get back to what they were supposed to, and you got it. Does he really need to beg and grovel at TL's feet asking for forgiveness? I think us as a starcraft community should be more forgiving - and this attitude would encourage others to run their own tournaments and promote the esports community.
This is just my two cents, I don't know either guy, but this is honestly what I feel after reading (okay, im on page 12/15) this thread. Cheers
Honestly Skullz I am sorry. I really mean that. I mean't no disrespect to you and I am very sorry for wasting your time tonight because of my mental error / mistake. I also apologize to the entire Team Liquid staff for the frustration in this topic. I am very honored to be a featured tournament here at Team Liquid and I will do whatever it takes to fix my image/ prove myself to the members here at TL that I will change.
On December 01 2010 17:52 Brandon33470 wrote: Honestly Skullz I am sorry. I really mean that. I mean't no disrespect to you and I am very sorry for wasting your time tonight because of my mental error / mistake. I also apologize to the entire Team Liquid staff for the frustration in this topic. I am very honored to be a featured tournament here at Team Liquid and I will do whatever it takes to fix my image/ prove myself to the members here at TL that I will change.
The issue I am seeing is that you are only talking about one of SEVERAL problems being brought up, over and over.
We get it, you removed him by "mistake". We get it, you were "stressed".
Now answer the remaining questions to "do whatever it takes to fix your image".
I still would like to hear about 1) the tQ stuff (removing people from your FL etc) - Tournament players who are no longer on the bracket I remove from my Real ID to free up space for futrue tournaments and events - I am currently at the max pretty much.
2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
On December 01 2010 17:47 Brandon33470 wrote: It was after the tournament round was over, I take the players who are not in the bracket and remove them because I am at my Real ID Friends List Limit.
No offense at all, but I highly doubt that. Reason being: You have me on your RealID, I did not play in this tournament and have never played in your tournaments. We were RealID when you became one of the managers for our team, as you were RealID with sKuLLz, DanTe, ox since we are all on the same team. You didn't add skullz to play in the tournament, you guys were RealID friends long before that.
I know that you have removed sKuLLz and ox from your list, have you removed any others from tQ?
We watched you ignore skullz on Bnet as you were casting. Once he called you out for ignoring him (I can see you ignoring me on your stream) you replied that he was still in the tournament, and proceeded to ignore him until you stopped casting. At that point, you removed him with your friends list without ever answering him.
I would also like to know why there are logs indicated you moved Skullz through the tournament as a W.O victory and then replaced him with LZgamer? Something just doesn't add up here. The post above mind also makes me suspicious of your actions.
brandons posts are pretty much total bullshit and I really hope people don't actually believe a word he's saying. yep, you ignored someone for hours and replaced them with a more well-known player then removed them from your friends list, but you can explain it all!!!
Brandon, your apology is appreciated. I'm sorry it had to come to this to get this ironed out and I'm not like "oh it's all about me!" kind of guy. I thought it was a really nice gesture to invite me and I hope to participate other tournaments.
LZGamer may continue in the tournament. I appreciate LZ's reply to the situation as well. I'd appreciate a spot in one of the next tourneys instead.
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: I still would like to hear about 1) the tQ stuff (removing people from your FL etc) - Tournament players who are no longer on the bracket I remove from my Real ID to free up space for futrue tournaments and events - I am currently at the max pretty much.
From the sounds of things, you have a deeper connection to the tQ members than just a tourny. In fact, you (apparently) removed skullz as he was messaging you about being in the tourny still.
2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
There is already a SS of you closing a PM window from Skullz on the menu screen, not in game, so you're dodging the question again.
If you can't run your tourney while streaming, you shouldn't be streaming.
LzGamer was supposed to take the spot for Kyhol not TQSkullz and I put them in the wrong spot and then Zelniq ended up going to play ROOTCatz but forfeited because Kyhol was not on. The whole thing got mixed up
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: I still would like to hear about 1) the tQ stuff (removing people from your FL etc) - Tournament players who are no longer on the bracket I remove from my Real ID to free up space for futrue tournaments and events - I am currently at the max pretty much.
2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
I thought you said he was still in the bracket? Plus, when you saw his message about whether or not he is still in the tourny (then proceeded to close the chat box), it was during a brief break and not during a game being played.
pi_rate_pir_ate December 01 2010 16:05 Plexa, he might not be on until Thursday. He said he was spending tomorrow with his fiancee. Seems fair to give him at least until then to respond.
I hope somehow this isn't true because I enjoy the tournament, but I don't really want to watch tournaments that drop people. It is definitely a legal issue when money is on the line. Anytime prize money is offered the people offering it are responsible to their government's laws about honest and fair practices.
fireflash's lawyer? but to be fair to him also, give him reasonable time to respond to this.
yes but we must sue him before the statute of limitations runs out
XBLFireFlash reported a (2-0) win for NGry.791 over EGLzGamer.327.
and the brackets say NGry's opponent was a no show in r64
Yes I know Ngry we talk on vent and last night he waited 3 hours for lzgamer but he never showed up so he told the admin and the admin at first said that if he doesn't show he gets the walkover. Ngry talked to him a little later and he did give Ngry the walkover but yeah guess he just decided to switch him out for another for whatever reason.
Hopefully he resolves this or something ^^
So instead of having Ngry play vs LZGamer later on(even though this would be really bad as well but at least almost makes sense), he's going to replace a random player with LZGamer?
Yeah, seems like I fully support closing the tournament thread,banning organizer, unfeaturing etc. This is totally messed up and might be illegal as well, you have his realID so that can be handled as well if it turns out to not be legal.
No might about it , it is illegal . It is called fair competition : or otherwise known as collusion , poker sites deal with these types of laws all the time
EDIT . IF this was legal , tourney directors could sell seats for a percentage of winnings , and just boot out poeple , by waiting to sell them as the tournament gets later in field , they can charge a higher percentage etc. this is just an example of where one could take this type of collusion . One could narrow brackets as they saw fit to give the players they are "invested in " more of winning chances . Basically tournaments such as these are supposed to be based on the accepted standards of fair competition laws , and this most assuredly does not conform to those standards .
it depends. OP did you have some sort of contract or did they send you tournament by-laws?
The USA has something called Fair competition laws . They are implied in all money competitions
No, we don't have anything called "Fair competition" laws. That's a non-US term. We have antitrust laws. Please stop, you're sidetracking talking about something you don't really know much about.
LMAO , YOU ARE ABOUT 3 PAGES TOo LATE GENIUS , here try my second post , where I equate fair competition laws to antitrust laws , and by the way collusion and fair competition are a subset of antitrust , get a brain please You remind me of my 5 year old niece walking into an adult movie way over her head mid-way through , and she pretends she knows what is going on . The semantic turn you just took is absurdly incorrect , lol , as I ALREADY USED THAT TERM LIKE 3 PAGES BACK . On a side Note I think a comic could get endless human behavior material at these forum type sites . The type of responses I see here never cease to amaze me . Please do not stop however, if you were to stop this type of nonsensicality , where would I get my daily explosion of sympathetic laughter .
Just stop. One of the two of us has passed the bar and is a corporate lawyer, and actually knows what they are talking about.
You, on the other hand, made rambling arguments that completely missed the point of my critique of your semantics and then hilariously bad mannered me in a way that's liable to get you warned.
So yeah, I'm not going to waste my time discussing this further or sidetrack the thread.
Just stop what correcting your ridiculous posts , not as long as you continue to make them . I guess since the last post you made has been clearly shown to have absolutely no relevance to anything I said in the post history , I guess you will invariably move to ,well poisoning and academic measuring to prove your point now , since logic has clearly failed you . At this point I might expect someone with at least marginal social skills, and no limited ego-mania issues coupled with a comical splash of insecurity to apologize followed by some humorous non sequitur. With you however we just get the non sequitur without the humor .
I will spell it out for you since you seem to be a little slow today .
1. you criticize me for my terminology , or lack there of 2. I used the very terminology in a previous post , thus your post is irrelevant , you were working from an incomplete post history . 3 . have I made the previous two points too complected for you to understand , becuase I will keep restating them over and over until you address them if you respond as if you are still correct in your criticism being anything other than semantics ( in which I preemptively have used in correct form to your criticism , really you dont have an argumentative leg to stand on , do yourself a favor , and the forum , just retreat to your cave ) My points here are quite simple and no amount of educational measurement , will erase your mistake
at this point you might want to just say you were wrong , becuase I dont care how many degrees you have , it doesn't change the fact you made a mistake , and it is in the post history , I can re-post the very part I state it is called antitrust in the USA many pages before your criticism . NOW DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING EVEN MARGINALLY RELEVANT TO ADD . OR MORE APPEALS TO IGNORANCE IS ABOUT ALL i CAN EXPECT
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: 2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
You are clearly more concerned with satisfying your stream viewers rather than being courteous to the participants in your tournament, without whom your tournament would be impossible.
If what skullz said is true(i'd print screen the bnet chat if i were you):
it is worse than 'mistake' or 'stressed' after you replied Skullz many 'yes' (wasting his time and giving him false hope at the mean time), you decided to ignore him and remove him. i mean, you surely have the bracket map in your hand when you replied him 'yes,you're still in', right???
i smell something fishy there, could it be the worst thing they do a match fixing in this tourney. hope skullz gets a proper compensation.
This has been an interesting read, however I think that the tournament organizer probably made a somewhat honest mistake that has now been corrected. I feel bad for the OP since his time was wasted. However, I didn't see the stream and have no real evidence or input. If it was an intentional malicious act, I highly doubt brandon will ever pull that shit again after this thread.
This is starting to feel a little like a witch hunt. Brandon seems very sorry and apologetic for his mistake. Running tournaments is difficult, and it sounds like he had a tough night. Even an upstanding community member like Day9 had some issues with his tournament when he ran it (not that he ever faced this kind of allegation or this level of apparent issues). I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt until we get all the facts straightened out. Obviously there were some issues with how this tournament was run. But from Brandon's comments it doesn't seem like he had bad intentions. Maybe Plexa's idea to lock the thread isn't so bad after all.
On December 01 2010 17:59 TricksAre4Figs wrote: Brandon, your apology is appreciated. I'm sorry it had to come to this to get this ironed out and I'm not like "oh it's all about me!" kind of guy. I thought it was a really nice gesture to invite me and I hope to participate other tournaments.
LZGamer may continue in the tournament. I appreciate LZ's reply to the situation as well. I'd appreciate a spot in one of the next tourneys instead.
Id be glad to have you back skullz as well as Dante.
Most of TQ is still on my friends list and you can confirm that as well.
TricksAre4Figs December 01 2010 17:59 Brandon, your apology is appreciated. I'm sorry it had to come to this to get this ironed out and I'm not like "oh it's all about me!" kind of guy. I thought it was a really nice gesture to invite me and I hope to participate other tournaments.
LZGamer may continue in the tournament. I appreciate LZ's reply to the situation as well. I'd appreciate a spot in one of the next tourneys instead.
Skullz has forgiven him so I hope everyone else can just drop it. All this bashing is unproductive. Let the mods, tournament organizers, and persons involved handle it.
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: 2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
Get another person to help you manage the actual tournament if you're going to be casting it. It's really annoying to the players if they don't even know when they're going to play. There's been no set order of players so far and that makes us sit around until you get to responding (usually vaguely, like "soon", after a game).
It would be awesome if you just staggered the games and assigned each series a start time or something.
Anyway, thanks for the tour and looking forward to tomorrow.
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: 2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
You are clearly more concerned with satisfying your stream viewers rather than being courteous to the participants in your tournament, without whom your tournament would be impossible.
Your priorities are out of line.
No, they aren't. Name any caster that doesn't set himself to Busy mid-cast. Seriously, that's standard. What are you on about? What happens when he isn't casting is another issue entirely, but you're just being silly.
On December 01 2010 17:59 Brandon33470 wrote: LzGamer was supposed to take the spot for Kyhol not TQSkullz and I put them in the wrong spot and then Zelniq ended up going to play ROOTCatz but forfeited because Kyhol was not on. The whole thing got mixed up
So wait, you advanced Skullz and then accidentally replaced him in the Ro32?
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: 2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
You are clearly more concerned with satisfying your stream viewers rather than being courteous to the participants in your tournament, without whom your tournament would be impossible.
Your priorities are out of line.
No, they aren't. Name any caster that doesn't set himself to Busy mid-cast. Seriously, that's standard. What are you on about? What happens when he isn't casting is another issue entirely, but you're just being silly.
LOL. You honestly believe he should be more concerned with his viewer count rather than his participants? What are YOU on about?
Yes, Skullz was advanced and then accidently replaced. He was on the bracket slated to face cheese and I misadded LzGamer to that match instead of the Kyhol / Catz matchup.
On December 01 2010 17:56 Brandon33470 wrote: 2) Ignoring other players - I only really ignore players while I am casting / live streamign a match I find it rude to the viewers as well to be chatting and missing events going on in the real game, hense why I set myself to "busy"
You are clearly more concerned with satisfying your stream viewers rather than being courteous to the participants in your tournament, without whom your tournament would be impossible.
Your priorities are out of line.
No, they aren't. Name any caster that doesn't set himself to Busy mid-cast. Seriously, that's standard. What are you on about? What happens when he isn't casting is another issue entirely, but you're just being silly.
No, what's silly is trying to manage a tournament while casting.
EPT
. that sucks if you really got removed for no reason but i would not fret over it. if the tourney is rigged in such a way it might not of been worth investing more time into. 
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/OKHUw.jpg)
I'm watching his activity like a hawk
