EPTIf you can memorize the "speed" of different units as they show up and move over the minimap it will infact be a fullblown maphack, which would make it nearly impossible to play against...
Terrans Have Highest Skill Ceiling - Page 3
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PurpleCrack
Norway12 Posts
If you can memorize the "speed" of different units as they show up and move over the minimap it will infact be a fullblown maphack, which would make it nearly impossible to play against... | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
I was under the impression (from listening to streams, sotg, that kind of thing) that alot of pros feel that protoss has the highest "potential" or skill ceiling, meaning that if everyone played absolouty perfectly, protoss would win. the way protoss works is that if you make even a tiny mistake, (miss a ff, get wrong unit composition, get caught out of position) then you lose the game (at top level play,) as protoss doesnt have the same ability that the other races to do play from behind. terran can put 4 marauders into a medivac and snipe a nexus, zerg can do a total tech switch or sneak expansions more easily then protoss, and send speedlings to harrass all over the map, while protoss needs to keep their army together to maintain effecctiveness. also, the protoss lategame is probably the strongest. fullt upgraded collosus death ball with storm is almost unstoppable, and more toss players are starting to incorporate void rays into the mix. its generally accepted that if toss survives til lategame on equal footing with terran, (and to a lesser extent zerg) then they have an advantage. to summarise this (way too long) post, if toss loses a game its normally because toss made a mistake, as opposed to the other player doing something brilliant. if a toss played perfectly there would not really be any way they would lose. there are protoss users getting first place in major tourneys around the world against terrans who macro perfecly, and yet the toss normally barely uses their chronoboost past the opening phase of the game. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:02 mizU wrote: Your mining time would be reduced with that pylon placement. @OP, I agree with your post. Terran's abilities seem a little more developed and synergetic than the other races. Repair as an ability, seems like a pretty big advantage as an OPTION rather than zerg's heal or protoss' shield, which reduces their fluidity. You can do this placement without losing mining time, you just have to tell the probe on the far right right to build it. ![[image loading]](http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7083/screenshot2010112822102.jpg) | ||
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klauz619
453 Posts
I was under the impression (from listening to streams, sotg, that kind of thing) that alot of pros feel that protoss has the highest "potential" or skill ceiling, meaning that if everyone played absolouty perfectly, protoss would win. Protoss has the lowest skill cap by a large margin. Auto losing early on when you do a trashy force field off the ramp(not exactly a difficult feat) just means it's unforgiving for them if they mess up. | ||
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PurpleCrack
Norway12 Posts
Overseer were given the ability to contaminate, like SCV's were given repair, but if I remember correctly contaminate was nerfed in the beta for being too cheap which would make it very easy to contaminate every building. How is this different from nerfing a thor to a smaller size so scvs can't repair it as effectively? | ||
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Lush
United States657 Posts
Terran has the most options by far. I just feel I have so many viable options in every match up, even mirrors. While in other match ups, I feel there a fewer viable strategies if the opponent plays standard unless I'm Terran. Example. PvT, if I don't open some sort of 1 or 2 gate Robo I just get raped by banshees. I know there are possibilities, I'm just saying it is difficult sometimes for other races. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:13 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:You can do this placement without losing mining time, you just have to tell the probe on the far right right to build it. And how is that Protoss supposed to wall? Terrans don't lose the ability to wall, or wall quickly, by building Depots next to their gas. What it comes down to is what I've been saying all along -- not that Protoss is UP, but that the Protoss player is missing basic options that are available to the Terran. The Terran doesn't have to choose between walling and keeping his Depots safe. The Protoss does. | ||
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TehForce
1072 Posts
2) Most of the things terran can do are already explored. Yes there will be some new amazing things people will find, but alle the things you talked about are pretty obvious. And really you only talked about late-defensive-planetry-fortresses and the mule beeing able to repair. bringing scvs to the front to repair and build bunkers and acting as a meatshield is really nothing new 3) Protoss and Zerg have many unexplored things too. Burrow is widely underused, Carriers rarely make an appearance, Nydus worms arent used in todays games (if there is no island). 4) Only because a race has not so many obvious options like terran, it doesnt mean they are shallow. With zerg your unit production alone is extremly deep (do i make units [which ones], drones, both or save some larvae, alle depending on your current knowledge about the game). With protoss you really have to care about your army movement and pylon placements over the map because terrans and zerg are so much more mobile than you. => Zerg and Protoss are not as shallow as you think and Terran not as versatile as you describe them in your article | ||
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Danze
Australia219 Posts
Whilst Terran may have the highest skill ceiling, Protoss can certainly brag about it's fancy furniture paired with the swirling remnants of chronoboosts and a general theme of "shiny stuff". They truly are the occupants of a glass house who can throw stones. Meanwhile in the house of Zerg; have you ever wanted to just come home and sit down on a couch that is constantly throbbing and morphing beneath your very ass? Well shit, zerg is the race for you. You really just can't go past the organic, earthy, back to your roots, smelly, holyshitmytvjustevolvedintoacat appeal. Sup china | ||
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chasfrank
Gambia59 Posts
On November 29 2010 14:20 pure.Wasted wrote: Try as they might, Protoss can't place their Pylon in the middle of their mineral line, although that would be just as resource efficient. Viewing this as a completely isolated case and ignoring the fact that Terrans have 1 supply more than P or Z, Protoss are actually considerably more efficient because they don't have to build those buildings. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:18 pure.Wasted wrote: And how is that Protoss supposed to wall? Terrans don't lose the ability to wall, or wall quickly, by building Depots next to their gas. What it comes down to is what I've been saying all along -- not that Protoss is UP, but that the Protoss player is missing basic options that are available to the Terran. The Terran doesn't have to choose between walling and keeping his Depots safe. The Protoss does. Is this argument for Terran having the highest skill ceiling? If it is, I don't see it. What does diversity have to do with skill? You don't answer that anywhere in your post with sufficient backing. You're whole post seems like you are saying something, that everyone generally agrees with: "Terran are the most diverse/developed race" and trying to twist it into an argument for skill ceiling. They simply are not the same thing. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On November 29 2010 14:52 .Aar wrote: Cool in theory, but I don't think I've actually seen a Zerg doing that yet. At least not in the GSL. It's pretty cool in practice too. Fruitdealer proxy'd a tech structure (probably a spire I think) in the GSL Season 1 Grand Final against Rainbow on Desert Oasis. Funny coincidence that Fruitdealer used to be called Cool too ... haha. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:18 pure.Wasted wrote: And how is that Protoss supposed to wall? Terrans don't lose the ability to wall, or wall quickly, by building Depots next to their gas. What it comes down to is what I've been saying all along -- not that Protoss is UP, but that the Protoss player is missing basic options that are available to the Terran. The Terran doesn't have to choose between walling and keeping his Depots safe. The Protoss does. A terran who doesnt build a supply at the wall is as delayed as the toss who doesn't build the pylong at his if not more so due to the extra mining time lost | ||
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PurpleCrack
Norway12 Posts
 I deny to believe this doesn't happen in most games at the GSL | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:15 PurpleCrack wrote: OP please tell me the difference between using the overseer to stop certain builds and using SCVs to repair a thor? Overseer were given the ability to contaminate, like SCV's were given repair, but if I remember correctly contaminate was nerfed in the beta for being too cheap which would make it very easy to contaminate every building. How is this different from nerfing a thor to a smaller size so scvs can't repair it as effectively? The difference lies in the "synergy" portion. Because Repair is an established fundamental part of the game, everything else that is introduced will in some way revolve around it. The relationships grow more and more complicated naturally, which means Blizzard doesn't have to foresee every single aspect of what they add, the players will come up with ideas all on their own. That's why MULEs, which were not created for the purpose of Repairing Thors (when have we seen/heard Blizzard talk about this?), can do so. Natural synergy of existing mechanics. There is no synergy involved in the Overseer's ability. It exists in a vacuum, doing one thing because it can do one thing, without any relationship to other Zerg mechanics. That means that its uses are entirely predictable, since they can be immediately forseen when the ability is created. The more complex a system, the more interesting it is, the easier it is to find new relationships between different parts of it. Terrans have just such a complex system. It's kind of a theoretical answer but I hope it helps to understand. If not, I'll be happy to clarify once more.. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:12 killerdog wrote: I was under the impression (from listening to streams, sotg, that kind of thing) that alot of pros feel that protoss has the highest "potential" or skill ceiling, meaning that if everyone played absolouty perfectly, protoss would win. . I've heard this be said as well but you are misinterpreting the meaning. They mean "perfect protoss wins", not "protoss players have so many ways to improve". Zerg and Terran definetly have the most ways to improve. As Zerg you're macro tasks run on timers, and then you expand and focus on the battle. As Terran you manage independant timings. Terran has the ability to choose between controlling the game and reacting to his or her opponent. At first, Terran armies could overpower the enemy with sheer force, but now that rarely happens. While I am told that this is still true against Protoss my personal feelings disagree. These days, Terran overpowerment is typically in the form of unstoppable siege tank fire. Perfect Terran is pretty hard to pull off. Marines continue to be one of the most microable units in Starcraft. I play Terran because Terran is my favourite race. I feel like Protoss should be my second favourite but I think I need HuK to show the world what-the-fuck-is-up-with-protoss by becoming a fucking champion for GSL4. When HuK starts to get angry, his APM shoots to 380+... watching his replays you can just tell he's a Sith Lord. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:21 keV. wrote: Is this argument for Terran having the highest skill ceiling? If it is, I don't see it. What does diversity have to do with skill? You don't answer that anywhere in your post with sufficient backing. You're whole post seems like you are saying something, that everyone generally agrees with: "Terran are the most diverse/developed race" and trying to twist it into an argument for skill ceiling. They simply are not the same thing. I'm a little upset that people are getting caught up on the "skill ceiling" phrasing, which I think is causing a lot of confusion unfortunately. While I admit it might not be ideal, I did explain precisely what definition of 'skill ceiling' I was using for my purposes in paragraph 2. I am not talking about the skill ceiling of players, but of the race as a whole. If it makes more sense to think of this as versatility, go right ahead. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On November 29 2010 15:26 Techno wrote: I've heard this be said as well but you are misinterpreting the meaning. They mean "perfect protoss wins", not "protoss players have so many ways to improve". Zerg and Terran definetly have the most ways to improve. As Zerg you're macro tasks run on timers, and then you expand and focus on the battle. As Terran you manage independant timings. Terran has the ability to choose between controlling the game and reacting to his or her opponent. At first, Terran armies could overpower the enemy with sheer force, but now that rarely happens. While I am told that this is still true against Protoss my personal feelings disagree. These days, Terran overpowerment is typically in the form of unstoppable siege tank fire. Perfect Terran is pretty hard to pull off. Marines continue to be one of the most microable units in Starcraft. I play Terran because Terran is my favourite race. I feel like Protoss should be my second favourite but I think I need HuK to show the world what-the-fuck-is-up-with-protoss by becoming a fucking champion for GSL4. When HuK starts to get angry, his APM shoots to 380+... watching his replays you can just tell he's a Sith Lord. Huk can't play in GSL 4. (Correct me if I am wrong) He has to ladder in Korea and be top 16 and then beat the A-class gamers. After beating the "lower tier" A-class gamers he then spends the following season playing in A-class and following this up if he is in the top of the A-class then proceeds into a tournament vs lower tier S-class. Only, and if only he beats the S-class players then he will be able to "what-the-fuck-is-up-with-protoss" as you might say. So maybe GSL 6 he will be able to pwn | ||
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