EPTCan't wait actually.
Also have to get Sc2rar working for it, not manually saving 100 4-gate replays
The 100 Four Gate Challenge - Page 8
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jmack
Canada285 Posts
Can't wait actually. Also have to get Sc2rar working for it, not manually saving 100 4-gate replays | ||
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NoMicro
Canada69 Posts
I currently have around a 1300 bonus pool in 1v1, and will be laddering the crap out of this 4-gate. I hope it will improve my micro, and macro mechanics, as well as making me feel more comfortable, because I already know what I'm going to be doing for the next 100 matches. Yeaahhh. Time to warpgate. Oh, and is it cheating if say, you scout early cloaked banshees and get a robo, or forge? Currently: 405 Points. Bonus Pool: 1262 | ||
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SamGC
United Kingdom3 Posts
After 3 weeks or so of active play i've reached 1600 plat, almost 100%of games using the 4-gate build. It's working, but the game is usually won or lost based on my first aggressive push around 8 minutes.As a result of this dependence on my push, my micro has improved greatly but my macro is lacking - as i tend to lose games that go on for a longer time period (partly because I'm so weakened if the push fails) Am I playing the game the wrong way, relying on just one build? When I win 5 in a row doing almost exactly the same thing every time, I almost feel as if I'm cheating. My win ratio is dropping off compared to what it was at lower leagues, will I soon hit a brick wall where everybody knows how to stop a 4 gate? | ||
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
maybe make a challenge that actually requires skill or help lead into something more, instead of further exhausting an already exhausted strat. edit: On November 25 2010 03:37 SamGC wrote: As a reasonably new player choosing protoss the 4 gate was the first strategy I learnt, and I have stuck with it in 99% of my games - as it has had considerably more success than anything else i've tried. After 3 weeks or so of active play i've reached 1600 plat, almost 100%of games using the 4-gate build. It's working, but the game is usually won or lost based on my first aggressive push around 8 minutes.As a result of this dependence on my push, my micro has improved greatly but my macro is lacking - as i tend to lose games that go on for a longer time period (partly because I'm so weakened if the push fails) Am I playing the game the wrong way, relying on just one build? When I win 5 in a row doing almost exactly the same thing every time, I almost feel as if I'm cheating. My win ratio is dropping off compared to what it was at lower leagues, will I soon hit a brick wall where everybody knows how to stop a 4 gate? people already know how to stop a 4 gate. which is why at any higher level of play, 4 gate is almost always stopped... the reason why you feel like you're cheating is probably some part of you realize how easy it is to pull this off even though you blindly go 4 gate every game. proof? read the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2010 00:51 Spiegel wrote: I'm 6 games into the challenge, and I'm being placed against 1800 point diamond players. I am nowhere near that good of a player. maybe 4 gate is too good for newbs  hopefully ill get promoted soon enough tho. what differentiates between better players from worse ones is their ability to adapt and learn... if you 4 gate every game, what're you ever going to gain other than a few empty victories? your macro is lacking because a 4 gate is supposed to end the game early. the shorter the games, the less demanding it is on your mid-late game mechanics, simply because there is barely any mid game, and no late game to speak of. therefore, you have less experience/practice with macro, and later game stages. | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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SkyDiDeLY
Netherlands51 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
1. When i was copper i made a lot of buildings and tried to make the high tech units as fast as i could. My army composition off of one base (usually with about 12 probes) consisted of carriers, void rays, zealots and the occasional mothership. 2. Someone posted a thread about day9 dailies. Watched about 10 of those during the beta and then started actually practicing. I learned about the 4 gate. Someone said, make some probes and 4 warpgates and go kill your opponent. So I did. 3. When the game came out I had been practicing with the multitasking trainer a little and against a friend so I 4 gated my way to gold during initial placement. 4. I kept doing 4 gate because I kept winning and by learning micro I was actually doing well. 4 gate got my into platinum. 5. 4 gate doesn't work so well in platinum so i started losing a bunch of games to things like FE and roach rushes. Time to learn another build. This is when I saw an old game of someone using blink stalkers. So i made 3 gates, got blink and killed my opponents. I won 20 games in a row with blink stalkers using really intense micro (microing individual stalkers back to keep em alive). Blink stalkers was less effective though once everyone saw tyler use it against idra and my blink stalkers were getting countered pretty hard, now i'm back to 2 gate robo with a focus on immortals. Instead of making stalkers, i make zealots sentires and immortals which tends to work a lot better against t1 unit compositions as long as you have forcefields. This build got me to diamond. Of course, i'm not just diamond because of a build. I scout a lot better, my macro rarely slips, my micro is a lot better. 4 gate is a good starting build though because eventually you will hit a point where it doesn't work and then you have to start fine tuning stuff. I still 4 gate on occasion, especially against zerg hatch before pool builds, but i've been playing with a lot more FE builds. Don't rely on 4 gate to be an end all build. It's a good way to learn early pressure though. The equivilent might be a 3 rax rush or a roach all in. Again don't rely on them too much. | ||
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SamGC
United Kingdom3 Posts
When you switched up to 2 gate robo, did you find alot of your games were lasting much longer..or were you still winning with aggressive early pushes? My play style suits being the aggressor where possible so i'd be looking for builds which complement that style of play. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
A forward pylon is CRUCIAL, many times 4gate pressure turns into gg with reinforcements or allows you to maintain a big enough army to retreat without getting slaughtered. If they fast expanded you MUST do serious damage and probably wont win unless it goes down. The best 4 gate attack timings are after your 2nd wave of warp ins IMO. To hit this point with maximum economy you will need some Force fields to stop any earlier rushes. If they didnt fast expand or you just killed it and they pull back to their main, you DO NOT have to push any further (up the ramp). Just contain and expand. Get 3 sentries and every time they poke down the ramp FF them and screw up any break out timing they had. It is a good idea to make them fight their way down the ramp with an army you cut in half. If you've done all of these things above there is really only one transition that makes sense except in rare circumstances. Expo and get an obs asap. Just pump units and get that 2 base econ going vs 1 base. Make a few immortals after the obs if your worried. Then you just have to defend for a little bit while the tech you choose gets going. The fun thing for me about 4 gate is the situation I'm describing is pretty typical so at this point I get to transition however I want. I can go colossus, air(carriers and motherships are fun!). Or I can just go for a bad ass gateway army, 2 forge double upgrades, get twilight upgrades charge,blink, add a bunch of gates,take a 3rd. Just go straight for 200 supply. If your 4 gate fails hard and your like WTFOMGSIEGE just contain and expand and don't suicide your army. This is why I highly prefer 3gate robo over 4 gate. The obs is so helpful in making all these decisions in the game. (Like when to expand and how hard you can get away with pressuring) I'm not trying to start any discussion, this is just how I play 4 gate. It's fun for me because of the fact that I often get to transition however I want. The attack does so much damage early. Thought I'd share this with any players who are unfamiliar with toss and are going to try this challenge. It seems like many people think 4 gate is a pure all in. Maybe it is for most people but not for me. For me it's just a way for an early gateway army not to get rofl stomped by MM or roach ling aggression. Allowing me to dictate the pace of the game a little. | ||
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MICHELLE
Korea (South)199 Posts
On November 24 2010 15:38 KillerPlague wrote: 4 gates are pretty much nullified at higher levels, but if you're low enough i'm sure you can gain tons of points and master it quite well after 100 games what the hell are you talking about? nullified? there is still PLENTY of 4 gate protoss by the top players and it's even scarier, since most of them can hide their play pretty well until they hit you | ||
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haegN
Norway533 Posts
On November 25 2010 00:00 Scrimpton wrote: Man, just checked your replay, you destroyed the Z without using any hotkeys for your army? and you and he apparently are diamond level players? :O I thought people hotkeyed as soon as they got out of bronze? - Damn i watched a day9 about hotkeys before the game finished download :O I use hotkeys lol, usually about 4-5.. If you want O can upload more replays. | ||
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phamou
Canada193 Posts
just my own opinion | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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SkyDiDeLY
Netherlands51 Posts
On November 25 2010 04:11 MICHELLE wrote: what the hell are you talking about? nullified? there is still PLENTY of 4 gate protoss by the top players and it's even scarier, since most of them can hide their play pretty well until they hit you Yeah this is true.. If they hunt down your overlord before you see the 3 remaining gates, are you still going to plant down those 3 crawlers? I dont think so.. | ||
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Titilisk
96 Posts
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DingeR
United States12 Posts
cella showed you can be rather effective with only 13 gates | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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mvpAKAenvyME
Canada179 Posts
Hate to break it to you guys, but if you lose, you got OUT PLAYED, and you have NO reason to whine and cry over the internet and talk trash to players who just BEAT you. After all, when you beat someone, you don't look back and go "oh wow I was such a dick in that game for seige pushing all the way accross the map with missle turrets" no. That's what you do to win. Now, this 4 gate build is actually quite good, either way you look at it, its a very strong opening, one of the strongest you can do with protoss. The reason is: Most people make the 4 gate "push" but why not just do a 4 gate "feint"? You do your usual "cheesey" 4 gate build, but instead of pushing up your opponents ramp, or into there defended (hopefully, if they scouted you at all and have any game sense whatsoever) natural...you just contain them and take map control while you make an expansion, and continue to macro your "4 gate death squad" into an unstoppable ball. I'd say you throw down your nexus at your nat as soon as you push out, and then continue to produce gateway units and probes for the rest of the time until your nexus is done. As soon as your nexus finishes, you throw down a forge, and a twilight council and get some upgrades going. You can choose charge or blink its really up to you what you want to get. Also get a robotics bay for immortals and collossi and detection if you need it, you can easily defend your natural this way with cannons as you have your forge, and you'll also have been macroing up a pretty beastly army while your opponent is scared of you and is throwing up bunkers/spine crawlers/cannons at his nat/ramp. The way I see it, 4 gate is a build that you can do to put yourself ahead, without even attacking. Even though you may sacrifice economy early in the game, you gain the lead after you contain/take map control. From that point on you are pretty much ahead if not even with your opponent and you haven't even had to make any defense because you are the one putting on the pressure. 4 gate build is not a cheesey build, it takes advantage of the protoss strengths: being able to macro out units pretty quickly because of warp gates and chrono boost, and having a decently strong army without tons of units. It seems extremeley powerful in my eyes and looks like a great opening for protoss players of all levels. As well as being able to catch your opponent off gaurd if he doesnt see that much pressure coming early on. You just have to be careful not to over extend yourself as we see ALL too often these days. Thankyou. P.S. I'm not trying to encourage this 4 gate play everyday, as there are also plenty more opening that you can do that are just as good as this one. You don't want to put yourself into a situation where you lack the skills/know how to adapt with the game as it progresses. | ||
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haegN
Norway533 Posts
On November 25 2010 04:52 mvpAKAenvyME wrote: I love how people are split down the middle on this 4 gate build. Some people love it and swear by it, others HATE it, and consider it the cheesiest build out there, and talk trash about players after they lose to it. Hate to break it to you guys, but if you lose, you got OUT PLAYED, and you have NO reason to whine and cry over the internet and talk trash to players who just BEAT you. After all, when you beat someone, you don't look back and go "oh wow I was such a dick in that game for seige pushing all the way accross the map with missle turrets" no. That's what you do to win. Now, this 4 gate build is actually quite good, either way you look at it, its a very strong opening, one of the strongest you can do with protoss. The reason is: Most people make the 4 gate "push" but why not just do a 4 gate "feint"? You do your usual "cheesey" 4 gate build, but instead of pushing up your opponents ramp, or into there defended (hopefully, if they scouted you at all and have any game sense whatsoever) natural...you just contain them and take map control while you make an expansion, and continue to macro your "4 gate death squad" into an unstoppable ball. I'd say you throw down your nexus at your nat as soon as you push out, and then continue to produce gateway units and probes for the rest of the time until your nexus is done. As soon as your nexus finishes, you throw down a forge, and a twilight council and get some upgrades going. You can choose charge or blink its really up to you what you want to get. Also get a robotics bay for immortals and collossi and detection if you need it, you can easily defend your natural this way with cannons as you have your forge, and you'll also have been macroing up a pretty beastly army while your opponent is scared of you and is throwing up bunkers/spine crawlers/cannons at his nat/ramp. The way I see it, 4 gate is a build that you can do to put yourself ahead, without even attacking. Even though you may sacrifice economy early in the game, you gain the lead after you contain/take map control. From that point on you are pretty much ahead if not even with your opponent and you haven't even had to make any defense because you are the one putting on the pressure. 4 gate build is not a cheesey build, it takes advantage of the protoss strengths: being able to macro out units pretty quickly because of warp gates and chrono boost, and having a decently strong army without tons of units. It seems extremeley powerful in my eyes and looks like a great opening for protoss players of all levels. As well as being able to catch your opponent off gaurd if he doesnt see that much pressure coming early on. You just have to be careful not to over extend yourself as we see ALL too often these days. Thankyou. P.S. I'm not trying to encourage this 4 gate play everyday, as there are also plenty more opening that you can do that are just as good as this one. You don't want to put yourself into a situation where you lack the skills/know how to adapt with the game as it progresses. QFT, A lot of wise words here! | ||
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mvpAKAenvyME
Canada179 Posts
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