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On November 24 2010 20:19 Joementum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:08 FetTerBender wrote:On November 24 2010 19:49 Joementum wrote:On November 24 2010 18:53 haegN wrote:On November 24 2010 18:25 Spiegel wrote:On November 24 2010 18:20 haegN wrote:On November 24 2010 18:11 beef42 wrote:On November 24 2010 18:06 hugedong wrote:
Out of all the pointless posts I've read on this site, this one takes the cake as the worst thread I have ever seen. The only thing it will do is get every bronze player to diamond in a few games, and absolutely suck after they try any other strategy.
Maybe if this was a 15 nexus for 100 games it would actually be beneficial to someone's play and not be the most boring thing you have ever done. Please stop this build snobbery. First of all, 15nexusing anywhere other than PvZ is instant lose. Secondly, if 4gate wins games, why is it a bad build? Why are only macro builds "beneficial to someone's play"? I agree, people saying you dont learn a lot from 4 gating is wrong, you definately learn to micro! Its a good build for having quick micro battles. If you are winning 75% of games with 4 gate are you better or worse than someone who wins 60% of games with a macro oriented play? I got 3 words for you brother. Play To Win LOL. If you really think 4-gating your way to the higher skill levels is the way to go, then please, keep wasting your time. I can't wait until you get to the point where all your 4-gate all ins are getting held off and you get roflstomped. Not wanting to be a smartass, but a 4-Gate is just a valid opener. Its aswell as i 6-pool (i think i even saw a replay of TLO doing a 6-pool versus Toss recently, where he did damage his opponents eco so hard that he was ahead in Drones after the Attack...) It teaches you to micro, you can macro up / expand! while you attack and reinforce. As long as you execute it in a good way, there is nothing to criticise a 4-Gate toss for. I dont tech and try to cripple / kill my opponent early on. If it works, i am at least ahead in eco and can tech up, if a timing push fails you are (in most cases) behind, at least a little. So... Why not do it? Opening with just a 4-gate all the time is going to cripple you in the long-run. Most people don't know how to properly defend against a 4-gate and it's just going to get you up higher in the ladder than you should be. If you ever decide to transition out of just doing the 4-gate build all the time, then you're going to get roflstomped. Sure, you can do a 4-gate and then learn how to transition out of it, but chances are your opponent left and gg'd out before you even got a chance to transition out of the 4-gate, so when you start playing against people who defend the 4-gate build you won't know what the hell to do.
The thing is to use the 4 gate, and be able to have a transition out of it if it does not kill your opponent! Thats at least what i ment by using it as an "opener". Given the fact that not so many people know how to defend against it properly, it even makes it a very strong opener.
But the trick of it comes afterwards, really. You have to look at the situation you are in after you 4 - Gate (not all-in ish) has been repelled. How much have i been able to kill? What are my next steps? Will i do a HT / DT transition? Grab a 3rd? Thats where the real game begins, for the opener has been finished.
And if your opener doesnt even get repelled but you manage to pull off a victory with just barely playing off your whole potential, even better.
Most players tend to practise something over and over again, without realising: I might reach a point in some game which i have never reached during my practises before, they lose their head and, in most cases, the game. A very good executed 4-Gate should leave you with a lead into the late Mid / Endgame, because you should be able to do serious damage to your opponent.
So its not that 4-Gate is bad, but most people lose the game when they dont know how to continue afterwards.
Just my 2 Cents =)
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We zergs should do a 7RR challenge.
On November 24 2010 15:25 haegN wrote:
Then upload your 100 replay packs
Just a heads up. You can have more than one replay in a replay pack. 
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Another reason to hatch before pool... it is the best counter to 4 gating by the way :/
And naw, it isn't worth 7rr since it's viable only on 1-2 maps Dx
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why do people say terran pieces and protoss pieces
this isn't chess
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On November 24 2010 22:26 Coraz wrote:
why do people say terran pieces and protoss pieces
this isn't chess
tell that to day9
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surprisingly enough.. in response to the 6 pool challenge  i did about 10 games.. and man I had no idea so many ppl 10gated etc. and i barely won 50% of my games 7 pooling blindly.
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On November 24 2010 16:36 haegN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 16:32 PraetorianX wrote:
Does it count if I've already done it? My last 100 games have been in this fashion and I've won maye 55-60% of them.
I always, always push at ~6 minutes with 4 stalkers, 4 zealots and 2 sentries. Wins me most games. Especially as I also always warp in a round of zealots on their high ground as I'm pushing up their ramp. Very solid strategy.
I basically only lose to 3rax fast marauder builds and good zerg players who 15hatch and then go roaches + spines just in time to defend. If you haven't noted your point gains and such theres not much I can use :p thats kind of the point really, but nice, I'll try that strat  Do you one gas or two gas?
One gas, always one gas. Those extra last minute in-their-base zealot warp ins are gonna tip the scales, last minute sentries are worthless. Zealots are great units, tanky and effective vs marines and zerglings, both of which you will be facing a lot when 4gating.
Just my 0,02€.
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might as well have the 7 roach rush challenge and the 3 rax push challenge
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I propose a better challenge. Do 100 ladder games and DON'T 4 warpgate rush. A much more difficult challenge.
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Ok, for everyone taking this up, you have to play the music
"Shine on you crazy diamond" in EVERY game you play.
(after the challenge you have to play the album "love over gold" by dire straits)
Only issue i have with this build is that 2thor counters it SO hard, and pretty much every PvT i play is vs 2Thor
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On November 24 2010 22:26 Coraz wrote:
why do people say terran pieces and protoss pieces
this isn't chess
I want to down-vote this post so bad.
ON-TOPIC: I might give this a shot despite being a Zerg player.
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Man, just checked your replay, you destroyed the Z without using any hotkeys for your army? and you and he apparently are diamond level players? :O
I thought people hotkeyed as soon as they got out of bronze? - Damn i watched a day9 about hotkeys before the game finished download :O
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oh all the poor guys on ladder  don't do this, op. 4gate is terrible. i never did it and i never will.
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Someone tell this elfi...
Ohwait, apparently he's been doing this since day1 andhasn't learnt another BO yet.
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On November 25 2010 00:00 Scrimpton wrote:
Man, just checked your replay, you destroyed the Z without using any hotkeys for your army? and you and he apparently are diamond level players? :O
I thought people hotkeyed as soon as they got out of bronze? - Damn i watched a day9 about hotkeys before the game finished download :O
Most do but some don't. I've played 2000+ players that didn't have their army hotkeyed. I guess it fights the urge to 1a.
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On November 25 2010 00:05 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 00:00 Scrimpton wrote:
Man, just checked your replay, you destroyed the Z without using any hotkeys for your army? and you and he apparently are diamond level players? :O
I thought people hotkeyed as soon as they got out of bronze? - Damn i watched a day9 about hotkeys before the game finished download :O Most do but some don't. I've played 2000+ players that didn't have their army hotkeyed. I guess it fights the urge to 1a.
hmm, i could see that, but not being able to 11 to jump straight to my army, or 33 for air etc, would seem clumsy.
but to each their own i guess
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I'd do it just so we can get warpgate pushed back or tweaked and have our tier 1 units buffed so that those of us that don't like 4 gate pushing/all-ining can feel like we're not gimping ourselves by skipping one of our strongest timing attacks
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if there's money on the line I'd definetly use the stronger build. otherwise it's boring and repetitive and I don't fucking like it.
This little experiment is just masturbatory since we all know it'll improve many people's ladder score because it IS effective, but it doesn't mean much.
You can score on an open net, doesn't mean you're a talented player.
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Any advice on what to do when you stumble across that terran that double bunkers or even just 1 bunker + SCV's? i presume once scouted, its better to just expand at nat and tech up to collosus?
or is there someway of doing damage to a T who's walled off + bunker?
thx in advance.
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EPT
