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On January 23 2011 09:50 eveo wrote:
What people don't realize is that, 3gate > 4gate.
yea, i am like 50-5 these lase two days doing awesome 3 gate attacks. You dont need to cut probes at all and can transition to whatever (if you dont completely destroy them causing rage quits and cheating accusations). The 3 gate build take alot more multitasking and micro to pull off but nothing is better than assaulting someone's base and them not understanding why you have 2-3 times as many units without proxy or all-in.
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On January 23 2011 15:13 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 15:08 Healingproof wrote:
People making threads like this are just poisoning the ladders down... How so? It's a well known build, so people should be very adept at spotting it and dealing with it adequately. Don't make a biased statement just because of your own personal experiences.
Well. I just find it retarded. I am the kind of guy that loves scouting and I have extremly little problem with cheeses, but cheese games are really boring and time wasting. Making threads promoting players to "4gate/3rax scv allin/6pool" on ladder 100 games in a row is just dumb and pointless. If your goal is to make players rage, fine, but otherwise it's pretty pointless.
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On January 23 2011 10:45 Thenno wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 09:50 eveo wrote:
What people don't realize is that, 3gate > 4gate. Dropping a very conditional statement without it's conditions is just plain misleading. Three gating is stronger early because you have the minerals to get the gates up earlier and pump out some units pre-warpgate. Obviously a fourgate is gonna surpass a threegate pretty fast, I would say around the 7 minute mark (depending on execution of course). However, a threegate does transition a whole lot better. Also, most fourgates just simply die vs. very early timing attacks when you have a zealot and a stalker out with 3 gates warping in and wg-tech on the way. A three gate can usually hold an early push.
I modified the 3gate into a 4gate and I believe it's the most powerful 4gate out there right now. Tested against other fours and it holds amazingly.
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On January 23 2011 19:30 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 10:45 Thenno wrote:On January 23 2011 09:50 eveo wrote:
What people don't realize is that, 3gate > 4gate. Dropping a very conditional statement without it's conditions is just plain misleading. Three gating is stronger early because you have the minerals to get the gates up earlier and pump out some units pre-warpgate. Obviously a fourgate is gonna surpass a threegate pretty fast, I would say around the 7 minute mark (depending on execution of course). However, a threegate does transition a whole lot better. Also, most fourgates just simply die vs. very early timing attacks when you have a zealot and a stalker out with 3 gates warping in and wg-tech on the way. A three gate can usually hold an early push. I modified the 3gate into a 4gate and I believe it's the most powerful 4gate out there right now. Tested against other fours and it holds amazingly.
I support this statement. I've been testing the 3 gate myself both on ladder and in custom games and it owns!
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On January 23 2011 19:44 Arnstein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 19:30 eveo wrote:On January 23 2011 10:45 Thenno wrote:On January 23 2011 09:50 eveo wrote:
What people don't realize is that, 3gate > 4gate. Dropping a very conditional statement without it's conditions is just plain misleading. Three gating is stronger early because you have the minerals to get the gates up earlier and pump out some units pre-warpgate. Obviously a fourgate is gonna surpass a threegate pretty fast, I would say around the 7 minute mark (depending on execution of course). However, a threegate does transition a whole lot better. Also, most fourgates just simply die vs. very early timing attacks when you have a zealot and a stalker out with 3 gates warping in and wg-tech on the way. A three gate can usually hold an early push. I modified the 3gate into a 4gate and I believe it's the most powerful 4gate out there right now. Tested against other fours and it holds amazingly. I support this statement. I've been testing the 3 gate myself both on ladder and in custom games and it owns!
what is 3 gate? >__>
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The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe.
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On January 23 2011 19:58 Subversion wrote:
The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe.
I disagree, scouting includes checking a natural in my opinion. You're right that 4gate would certainly incite more panic and defense, but I feel like if the person is actually good at scouting they will also check to see if you have expanded or not. For example, how many Zerg player are good enough to remember to sac an overlord but then don't park a ling outside of your natural or at a xel naga tower?
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On January 23 2011 14:03 Subversion wrote:
where is drunken jedi 's points?
Are you asking about the points before and after I did the challenge? If so:
Points before: 1989 (11 bonus pool)
Points after 20 games: 2119 (0 bonus pool)
Final score: 2268 (0 bonus pool)
If you're asking about right now, I'm ~2.6k in masters.
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Four gate is extremely potent because of warp-gates. they ignore defenders advantage.
I would like to say to the original thread maker in his main post he notes about people whining about 4 gate.
First of all, yes I agree people shouldn't go around whining about it, but being 'outplayed'? I disagree strongly. By no means is 4gating someone outplaying them.
You utilized little to no macro management skills, little multitasking ect.
You did a cookie-cut build order and used minimal micro.
Once again, I agree people have to stop whining about it, but 'outplayed' part is just false.
There is a huge difference between defeating someone and outplaying them.
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On January 23 2011 19:58 Subversion wrote:
The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe.
Yup that and you get a FUCK ton of more units as well as probes if you execute the build perfectly. I tested this build on my buddies account (bronze) and got 55 wins, 1 loss ahaha, was just perfecting it.
I hit all my timings right and got : 7 zealots 5 stalkers, sentry with 24 probes mining at 6:30 and an expo. If I do the 4gate I made based off the 3gate I can like 1 less unit, but just an extra gate.
It's SO beast.
On January 23 2011 20:31 Smigi wrote:
Four gate is extremely potent because of warp-gates. they ignore defenders advantage.
I would like to say to the original thread maker in his main post he notes about people whining about 4 gate.
First of all, yes I agree people shouldn't go around whining about it, but being 'outplayed'? I disagree strongly. By no means is 4gating someone outplaying them.
You utilized little to no macro management skills, little multitasking ect.
You did a cookie-cut build order and used minimal micro.
Once again, I agree people have to stop whining about it, but 'outplayed' part is just false.
There is a huge difference between defeating someone and outplaying them.
DERP DERP DERP is what I read on your post. Know why? Because being outplayed has nothing to do with opinion, just game mechanics. Somewhere along the way the opponent didn't defend the 4gate because of many factors, simply means he got outplayed by a 4gate.
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On January 23 2011 20:59 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 19:58 Subversion wrote:
The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe. Yup that and you get a FUCK ton of more units as well as probes if you execute the build perfectly. I tested this build on my buddies account (bronze) and got 55 wins, 1 loss ahaha, was just perfecting it. I hit all my timings right and got : 7 zealots 5 stalkers, sentry with 24 probes mining at 6:30 and an expo. If I do the 4gate I made based off the 3gate I can like 1 less unit, but just an extra gate. It's SO beast. Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 20:31 Smigi wrote:
Four gate is extremely potent because of warp-gates. they ignore defenders advantage.
I would like to say to the original thread maker in his main post he notes about people whining about 4 gate.
First of all, yes I agree people shouldn't go around whining about it, but being 'outplayed'? I disagree strongly. By no means is 4gating someone outplaying them.
You utilized little to no macro management skills, little multitasking ect.
You did a cookie-cut build order and used minimal micro.
Once again, I agree people have to stop whining about it, but 'outplayed' part is just false.
There is a huge difference between defeating someone and outplaying them. DERP DERP DERP is what I read on your post. Know why? Because being outplayed has nothing to do with opinion, just game mechanics. Somewhere along the way the opponent didn't defend the 4gate because of many factors, simply means he got outplayed by a 4gate.
all I read on your post was DERP DERP DERP.
Wanna know why? Because you didn't outplay or outperform your opponent, your opponent just failed at stopping the A+click all-in.
The protoss All-ins the player, its the player whos getting 4 gated who stops it or doesn't. It has nothing to do with the person whos doing the 4 gate all-in.
Sure the Protoss could somewhat micro his units to be slightly more efficient, but at the end of the day your relying on the other player to mess up, not on your macro management or mechanics in order to win.
Please be competent or atleast use your head before you post.
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On January 23 2011 20:59 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 19:58 Subversion wrote:
The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe. Yup that and you get a FUCK ton of more units as well as probes if you execute the build perfectly. I tested this build on my buddies account (bronze) and got 55 wins, 1 loss ahaha, was just perfecting it. I hit all my timings right and got : 7 zealots 5 stalkers, sentry with 24 probes mining at 6:30 and an expo. If I do the 4gate I made based off the 3gate I can like 1 less unit, but just an extra gate. It's SO beast. Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 20:31 Smigi wrote:
Four gate is extremely potent because of warp-gates. they ignore defenders advantage.
I would like to say to the original thread maker in his main post he notes about people whining about 4 gate.
First of all, yes I agree people shouldn't go around whining about it, but being 'outplayed'? I disagree strongly. By no means is 4gating someone outplaying them.
You utilized little to no macro management skills, little multitasking ect.
You did a cookie-cut build order and used minimal micro.
Once again, I agree people have to stop whining about it, but 'outplayed' part is just false.
There is a huge difference between defeating someone and outplaying them. DERP DERP DERP is what I read on your post. Know why? Because being outplayed has nothing to do with opinion, just game mechanics. Somewhere along the way the opponent didn't defend the 4gate because of many factors, simply means he got outplayed by a 4gate.
errm okay, so if you 6 pool a 14 hatch, that is still "outplaying" according to your books? Saying 4 gating a player = outplaying is like saying you "outplayed" somebody in a game of rock paper scissors ~_~
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On January 23 2011 22:51 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 20:59 eveo wrote:On January 23 2011 19:58 Subversion wrote:
The strength of a 3-gate is that if its scouted, people expect a 3-gate expand build.
When someone scouts 4-gate, they know exactly whats coming and immediately start massing defense. If you scout 3-gates you feel a lot more safe. Yup that and you get a FUCK ton of more units as well as probes if you execute the build perfectly. I tested this build on my buddies account (bronze) and got 55 wins, 1 loss ahaha, was just perfecting it. I hit all my timings right and got : 7 zealots 5 stalkers, sentry with 24 probes mining at 6:30 and an expo. If I do the 4gate I made based off the 3gate I can like 1 less unit, but just an extra gate. It's SO beast. On January 23 2011 20:31 Smigi wrote:
Four gate is extremely potent because of warp-gates. they ignore defenders advantage.
I would like to say to the original thread maker in his main post he notes about people whining about 4 gate.
First of all, yes I agree people shouldn't go around whining about it, but being 'outplayed'? I disagree strongly. By no means is 4gating someone outplaying them.
You utilized little to no macro management skills, little multitasking ect.
You did a cookie-cut build order and used minimal micro.
Once again, I agree people have to stop whining about it, but 'outplayed' part is just false.
There is a huge difference between defeating someone and outplaying them. DERP DERP DERP is what I read on your post. Know why? Because being outplayed has nothing to do with opinion, just game mechanics. Somewhere along the way the opponent didn't defend the 4gate because of many factors, simply means he got outplayed by a 4gate. errm okay, so if you 6 pool a 14 hatch, that is still "outplaying" according to your books? Saying 4 gating a player = outplaying is like saying you "outplayed" somebody in a game of rock paper scissors ~_~
Actually there's a huge difference between MC doing a 4 gate and random silver level toss doing a 4 gate (or even average master toss). And as for your question, yes beating a 14 hatch with a 6 pool can be considered outplaying since it is in fact possible to win with 14 hatch against 6 pool. It mainly comes down to your zergling micro and your opponents drone micro.
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Um, being outplayed has nothing to do with how shitty a build is. If that build beat you, you got outplayed by a shitty build.
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The 3gate 6:30 attack with 7 zeal/5 stalkers has been around for awhile, I picked it up when HuK mentioned he had a lot of problems with it on the Korean ladder.
I've had reasonable succes with it in PvP, smashing most early zeal and robo builds, and also the occasional 4gate. However, the recent 5:45 1 zeal/5 stalker with a additional +4 zealot following soon is pretty hard to hold since they can contain you if you don't establish map control and switch into robo or blinkstalker tech, or expand. If you can establish early map control you can hold it of, but the 4gater usually gets a sentry and turtles up to collossi when he can't get the proxy pylon up.
Personally I only use the 3gate nowadays on Macrolopolis (and sometimes DQ) close position, and Steppes of War. On bigger maps, your zealots just have to walk too far before warpgates finish and it'll delay your attack too much (critical point is the first immortal from robo builds, if they have a sentry to cut you on the ramp, that's usually around 7:00, if they get the immortal earlier you can usually win because they cut too much gateway units and will simply be overwhelmed).
Transitioning from 3gate to fourgate works well though, if you're trading units with the oppo get an additional gateway asap or you're going to lose. Robo doesn't cut it usually for me.
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Just an update on my status:
21 games in 697 points on silver (just got promoted  ) I'm going really slow on this, but I'm trying to make up a new build order on my SEA account.
Also as I said before, if you aren't interested in doing this challenge, or think 4 gate is gay, please shut the fuck up and get out of this thread, we don't give a shit what you think and none of your bitching is ever going to change that. You are all just begging for attention, and trying to show off how good you are. If you can't handle 4 gate, you don't deserve to even be playing macro games, any idiot can mass up units and "play well" when he has resources coming off 4 bases.
Also, 4 gaters, if you can't ignore the troll posts by people here, i suggest you also get out of this thread, you are also part of the shit that is clogging this tread. Please mods, we need you now more than ever!!
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the new build is....
4-gate robo!!!!
I swear thats all i see from people, get 1 or 2 immortals from the robo then go pure gateway units....so glad 2-gate > 4-gate 
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On January 24 2011 10:27 Lorken wrote:Just an update on my status: 21 games in 697 points on silver (just got promoted ) I'm going really slow on this, but I'm trying to make up a new build order on my SEA account. Also as I said before, if you aren't interested in doing this challenge, or think 4 gate is gay, please shut the fuck up and get out of this thread, we don't give a shit what you think and none of your bitching is ever going to change that. You are all just begging for attention, and trying to show off how good you are. If you can't handle 4 gate, you don't deserve to even be playing macro games, any idiot can mass up units and "play well" when he has resources coming off 4 bases. Also, 4 gaters, if you can't ignore the troll posts by people here, i suggest you also get out of this thread, you are also part of the shit that is clogging this tread. Please mods, we need you now more than ever!!
so this is somehow "your" thread and we can't post our opinions on it? Sounds a bit arrogant to tell people to get out of a thread isn't it? If you don't like that discussion, then don't respond to it. No need to throw a psyche...
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On January 24 2011 10:40 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 10:27 Lorken wrote:Just an update on my status: 21 games in 697 points on silver (just got promoted ) I'm going really slow on this, but I'm trying to make up a new build order on my SEA account. Also as I said before, if you aren't interested in doing this challenge, or think 4 gate is gay, please shut the fuck up and get out of this thread, we don't give a shit what you think and none of your bitching is ever going to change that. You are all just begging for attention, and trying to show off how good you are. If you can't handle 4 gate, you don't deserve to even be playing macro games, any idiot can mass up units and "play well" when he has resources coming off 4 bases. Also, 4 gaters, if you can't ignore the troll posts by people here, i suggest you also get out of this thread, you are also part of the shit that is clogging this tread. Please mods, we need you now more than ever!! so this is somehow "your" thread and we can't post our opinions on it? Sounds a bit arrogant to tell people to get out of a thread isn't it? If you don't like that discussion, then don't respond to it. No need to throw a psyche...
I'm pissed because only 1/10 of the posts here are relevant to the topic, and I have something against people being off topic, this thread is about the 4 gate challenge, in the Starcraft General forum, if somebody want's to discuss why 4-gating is an illegitimate way of playing starcraft, then I suggest they make a thread about that in the strategy forum.
On topic:
I know this is kind of stupid, but 6 pool is usually easy to fight off with a 4 gate build, but it's pretty hard to scout on large maps if you scout after putting the gateway down, and sometimes you don't see it, which is still fine because you have a zealot there, and the dumber ones back off (even though imo they shouldn't). But of the ones that push and kill the zealot, most of them go on to attack the probes, but the smarter ones (I guess) stay and start killing a pylon, am I supposed to sacrifice probes to kill them or wait for the stalker to spawn? Because sometimes they are lucky and kill the pylon which is basically gg.
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On January 24 2011 10:27 Lorken wrote:
any idiot can mass up units and "play well" when he has resources coming off 4 bases.
Try it and show us the results please.
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EPT
