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On November 24 2010 10:49 Jeffbelittle wrote:
"You can just mass roaches and straight up win"
Stopped reading right there. Are you serious? The TIER 1 UNIT, 50 MINERALS, starting unit for Terran in equal mineral sized armies past like 6 I think the number was beats roaches WITHOUT combat shield NOR stim pack. P.S.: Roaches have less dps, less overall health when counting shields, and less range than the stalker. Use them with sentries to fight roaches in smaller numbers and have fun. Also: if you're opponent is stupid melee heavy, there's no reason not to get void rays. That's like refusing to build banelings against mass marine because you don't want to seem like baneling bust is the only route.
But as others have said: Tier 1/1.5 units are suppose to be the bread and butter of each race. And they are. Gateway units are needed to win games, plain and simple. If you don't have zerglings and banelings in your army than you best have roaches else you lost. Plain and simple. And if you don't have marines OR marauders than you're just going to get magic boxed.
This is not true.
Marines vs Roach measurements were done in a 2:1 ratio and Marines need shield to be competitive. Stim doesn't help all that much, and of course, the larger the army favors the terran.
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As a 2k+ protoss I think mass roach is very strong however you don't need to worry about muta harass which allows you to get the robo. From there you can spam sentry stalker immortals with just enough zealots to nullify any lings. You must make your force fields count and split the roaches in half, but you should be able to deal with them effectively.
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On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap.
What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost.
When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit.
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Terran are so imba, using their tier 1 units for the majority of their army composition. Protoss are so imba, using stalkers and zealots and sentries for the majority of their army composition.
Roaches are hard countered by marauders and immortals. Also by mutalisks in zvz.
I don't understand the post.
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If anything, the race that can just mass one unit and win epically is terran.
Hell, FoxeR went to the GSL finals just making marines.
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On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit.
you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you?
they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder.
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Your general game play in the early game was not bad. I really liked the massive damage you did with those phoenixes, supply blocking your opponent and delaying his push and his drone production.
You might want to work on your late game decision making though. Collosi would have worked great since you saw so many zerglings early on, you had those 4 phoenixes to deal with any more mutalisk shenanigans.
The weirdest thing I saw was when you saw lots of roaches you made more zealots and teched into high templar. In my opinion storm is not that great against lings unless your opponent decides to just a-move you the entire time. Collosi also would have fixed that.
I assume that your mindset was that he was going to continue to make a lot of roach + ling. Might have been able to assume more map control + scouting with those really fast phoenixes.
In all honesty you should have won this game. Your macro was decent and his resources were in excess of 3k.
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did you just describe zerglings as DPS?
Upgraded Zerglings do r-tarded amounts of dps with a full surround.
Especially with Adrenal Glands upgrade.
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On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder.
Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade).
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On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade).
i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder?
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On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder?
Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps.
Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective.
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On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective.
"yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots.
i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras?
do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be?
replace hydras with any unit if you want.
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On November 24 2010 12:06 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective. "yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots. i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras? do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be? replace hydras with any unit if you want.
I really hope you're trolling and not actually this obtuse.
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If there's one unit in the game that I would label DPS, it's the zergling...
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On November 24 2010 09:47 Bandino wrote:
The air units that protoss have at their disposal are void rays, phoenix, and carriers.
Void rays many would consider cheesy, and even if they were voids are easily shutdown by corruptors because he can pump out a few before you reach a certain mass, or if needed he can build hydras.
Wait, so....
Void rays don't counter roaches because the Z player can make other units?
wat.
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I do think that there's something wrong with zvp, but roaches aren't the problem. Roaches are pretty easily countered in a number of ways that are not all too taxing macro or micro wise for toss. One you don't need 4 robos to go immortals to counter the roaches. Mix like 1 immortal with a couple of stalkers and you can take down MASS amounts of roaches. Also getting a void ray isn't cheesy if you know what you're doing and don't commit to air too much. You always want to leave yourself a way.
I think that the actual problem in zvp is that protoss has a hard time dealing with tech switches because the protoss tech tree is divided into 3 sections (stargate, council, and robo tech) once you fully commit to one branch of the tree it is extremely economically taxing to transfer out of it. The zerg and to some extent even the terrans by way of different addons can tech switch pretty easily comparably. For example: zerg can easily plop down a spire and switch right from roach to mutaling without too much effort. The things that counter mutaling ie blinkstalkers, sentries require a large amount of gateways. If the protoss had been spending the entire game building up robos to fend off roaches, then toss has a hard time dealing with mutaling.
Toss units were very strong at the beginning of the beta, but it's been nothing other than nerfs after nerfs and even though I think the game is fairly balanced, i think that toss needs one final small buff that gives toss players just an oh so small boost. But then again blizzard is not going to do that because they balance for all levels and toss is winning all the time in bronze and silver league 
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On November 24 2010 12:13 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 12:06 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective. "yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots. i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras? do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be? replace hydras with any unit if you want. I really hope you're trolling and not actually this obtuse.
good comment, constructive criticism. i like it!
i seriously don't know how no one is reading what i'm typing. it's not exactly revolutionary that zerglings are a cannon fodder unit. i never said they don't do damage.
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On November 24 2010 12:28 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 12:13 sob3k wrote:On November 24 2010 12:06 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective. "yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots. i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras? do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be? replace hydras with any unit if you want. I really hope you're trolling and not actually this obtuse. good comment, constructive criticism. i like it! i seriously don't know how no one is reading what i'm typing. it's not exactly revolutionary that zerglings are a cannon fodder unit. i never said they don't do damage.
When a unit is described as being "DPS" or "cannon fodder" or "tank", you are saying that the units primary purpose is to do one of the following things: deal lots of damage compared to cost, eat lots of damage compared to cost, or... well... eat lots of damage compared to cost? Cannon fodder and tank are technically the same thing, except fodder are high number low health units and tanks are the opposite.
Zerglings have one of the highest DPS to cost ratios in the game. They also melt in five seconds to a lot of lategame army compositions. Therefore, they are DPS. Sure, you can use them to tank damage in certain situations, but they aren't very efficient at it.
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On November 24 2010 12:43 GreatestThreat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 12:28 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 12:13 sob3k wrote:On November 24 2010 12:06 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 09:58 pfods wrote:
did you just describe zerglings as DPS? they're cannon fodder, even late game their role is simply cannon fodder and distraction for actual DPS units.
you got outplayed is all. you suicided your army a couple of times. when you saw his mass ling, you should have made a couple of colossus and some more sentries. you wasted your sentries went you went guardian shield that one time. when he went mass roach, collo would have still helped, with the aid of sentries, etc. even if he burrowed having an observer would have just raped him.
i don't see how what the zerg player was imba or cheap. What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost. When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective. "yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots. i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras? do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be? replace hydras with any unit if you want. I really hope you're trolling and not actually this obtuse. good comment, constructive criticism. i like it! i seriously don't know how no one is reading what i'm typing. it's not exactly revolutionary that zerglings are a cannon fodder unit. i never said they don't do damage. When a unit is described as being "DPS" or "cannon fodder" or "tank", you are saying that the units primary purpose is to do one of the following things: deal lots of damage compared to cost, eat lots of damage compared to cost, or... well... eat lots of damage compared to cost? Cannon fodder and tank are technically the same thing, except fodder are high number low health units and tanks are the opposite. Zerglings have one of the highest DPS to cost ratios in the game. They also melt in five seconds to a lot of lategame army compositions. Therefore, they are DPS. Sure, you can use them to tank damage in certain situations, but they aren't very efficient at it.
they do have a high DPS per cost ratio, but i don't make zerglings to deal totally sick damage to my opponent. i make them to surround, hold, and distract for my other units to deal totally sick damage.
i guess i've just been playing zerg wrong for the last 6 years, but it works for me
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On November 24 2010 12:47 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 12:43 GreatestThreat wrote:On November 24 2010 12:28 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 12:13 sob3k wrote:On November 24 2010 12:06 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:43 fdsdfg wrote:On November 24 2010 11:32 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:30 MaGariShun wrote:On November 24 2010 11:10 pfods wrote:On November 24 2010 11:03 fdsdfg wrote:
[quote]
What on earth are you talking about?? Why would you use zerglings as cannon fodder and not DPS? You can get more HP for their cost in Roaches, and you can't get more DPS for their cost.
When their dps:health ratio is the highest in the game... they're not a tanking unit, they're a dps unit. you don't exactly pull zerglings when you send them in for the surround, do you? or micro individual zerglings to keep them alive mid/late game, do you? they're fodder. any unit you make 40 or 50 of and 1a is fodder. Because you dont micro a unit it is a tank? You dont micro lings, because they are impossible to micro in high numbers, not because you don't care. It doesnt change the fact that they do sick DPS with upgrades (don't quote me on this, but I reckon to have read somewhere around here that they even surpass hydras with glands upgrade). i'm not saying they're tanks. i'm saying i don't consider them DPS like hydras. yes, they do damage per second because they are in fact a combat unit. but they're still cannon fodder. zealots mid/late game are still DPS, but would you argue in a 200/200 food army, they're anything but cannon fodder? Why are zealots DPS and Zerglings aren't? That's completely arbitrary. Look at DPS:COST. Hell, compare it vs the hydra and zerglings still do way more dps. Ever have a pack of mutalisks engage stalkers, then 40 zerglings come in and start attacking the stalkers? That's effective. If you did it the other way, zerglings first, then the mutas, it'd be a LOT less effective. "yes, they do damage per second". what is DPS short for? i just said they are DPS, because by definition they have to do damage per second. just like zealots. i don't understand how this is getting screwed up. they have to do damage per second. even scvs do damage per second. but why do you send them in before, say, your hydras? do you actually do it because they have high DPS for cost? or do you do it to be cannon fodder so your hydras don't have to be? replace hydras with any unit if you want. I really hope you're trolling and not actually this obtuse. good comment, constructive criticism. i like it! i seriously don't know how no one is reading what i'm typing. it's not exactly revolutionary that zerglings are a cannon fodder unit. i never said they don't do damage. When a unit is described as being "DPS" or "cannon fodder" or "tank", you are saying that the units primary purpose is to do one of the following things: deal lots of damage compared to cost, eat lots of damage compared to cost, or... well... eat lots of damage compared to cost? Cannon fodder and tank are technically the same thing, except fodder are high number low health units and tanks are the opposite. Zerglings have one of the highest DPS to cost ratios in the game. They also melt in five seconds to a lot of lategame army compositions. Therefore, they are DPS. Sure, you can use them to tank damage in certain situations, but they aren't very efficient at it. they do have a high DPS per cost ratio, but i don't make zerglings to deal totally sick damage to my opponent. i make them to surround, hold, and distract for my other units to deal totally sick damage. i guess i've just been playing zerg wrong for the last 6 years, but it works for me
Well arguably using them to surround and hold the enemy in position is a totally different class than "cannon fodder" or "DPS", something more akin to crowd control, but... this discussion is all semantics anyway, really.
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