EPTI used to play DotA with about 3-4 girls and they were...decent. They played it for fun, never to get competitive.
Discussing the lack of top female starcraft gamers - Page 3
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
I used to play DotA with about 3-4 girls and they were...decent. They played it for fun, never to get competitive. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On November 20 2010 00:25 Najda wrote: I think it's just because of the way society pushes people towards pre-determined roles. When a boy grows up he is generally urged to do things like join a sports team, which starts the competitive drive from a very young age. So to speak, when a boy wants to become a pro gamer, he's just going with the flow (or rather, the real battle starts long down the road). But when a girl wants to go into anything competitive, she has to walk against the current from the very start. This means that when a guy and a girl put in the same amount of effort into pro gaming, the guy will almost always come out on top just because the girl will have a lot more battles to face along the way starting from the beginning. On the other side of it though, when a girl achieves half the feats of a male gamer, she gets twice the attention. As an example, one of my friends (girl) got an expense free invite to go to quakecon and play some show matches with Fatal1ty and such (it was her and like 7 other girls vs Fatal1ty), but she is hardly good at the game. I picked up Quake Live and in 2 or 3 days (with some previous FPS expirience, no quake though) I could beat her in a duel (though it was very close). A guy with my level of skill though would never get any attention at all though, because there are so so many people who are way better than me. TL;DR : Guys are driven to be competitive, when girls are given no such push. I don't think it is mainly society that is driving boys and not girls. Especially not in western world. It is our biology that manifests itself in societal rules. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I don't think its a matter of natural disadvantages, in terms of coordination and spatial reasoning or anything like that. I think that, if as many women played these games as men, and if they practiced as hard, they could be just as good. But that's the thing. Fewer women play, and those that do tend to play much less. I mean, let's face it, if you play Starcraft as much as IdrA, its going to be very, very hard to have much of a life beyond the game. I just think that there are more male nerds who are willing to completely forego having much of a social life/other hobbies to obsess over a game than there are female nerds willing to do the same. I know a lot of female nerds. They love the same shit guy nerds do, but they tend to be a bit more balanced about it. They'll collect comics, for instance, but they generally won't spend all of their time in a basement somewhere obsessively pouring over them in lieu of having an actual life. They'll get into games, but they won't be the sort who stop bathing because they spend so much damn time playing those games. In general, i think this is actually an advantage for women. being passionate is one thing, being obsessive is another, and it usually isn't healthy to be obsessive about anything, let alone a game. However, if you want to be the absolute best in the world at something, obsessiveness is likely what it will take. Put another way, there's never been a woman as good at chess as Bobby Fischer was. But Bobby Fischer went completely nuts because he was so obsessed with chess. Being an emotionally imbalanced obsessive with no life may be helpful in one very small area, but it is detrimental in life at large. At a certain point, refusing to give up your entire life just to play a game isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of maturity and emotional health. Women just aren't silly enough to see "give up my entire life to get good at a video game" as being a worthwhile tradeoff. Not all guys are, either--Liquid.Tyler for instance used to be kind of an obsessive IdrA type, and then he grew up and got a life beyond the game. He probably won't even be the best Starcraft player in the world, but he's still damn good, plus he's got a life that's a lot more fulfilling in other ways. | ||
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Pitsot
Russian Federation20 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
it lies deep down in our genes/biological roots that a man´s primary role is that of the warrior. competition is used to determine the hierarchy of the males, to separate them into winners and losers. the winners are rewarded with respect from the whole society and with sexual interest from the females. this competitive nature of men translates into all their hobbies. who builds the fastest model car, who is the best in [insert any sport here], who is the strongest, the best fighter, the best in school, the best in his job, and so on. whatever men do, they compare themselves to their environment and make a fight out of it, trying to be the best in whatever they do. as this stuff comes subconsciously, men even tend to be competitive in hobbies that neither grant them acceptance from society nor success with girls, like trading card games, video games, unpopular sports, and so on. the typical "nerd stuff". women lack this kind of default competitiveness. women are rated by their looks and their social competence, not by their success in competition of any kind. therefore, it lies in the nature of females to tend to not make a competition out of any generic hobby they pursue. they just dont get the same amount of respect from other women and interest from men for being good at any hobby that men do get. therefore, the investment of free time and mental resources (determination etc.) into competing at hobbies that dont fit into the typical female role agenda doesnt provide women the same payoff as it does for men. thats why there are less women who are into competitive gaming. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
You also have to realise, what do we men do when winning sc2? I can only speak for myself, and it goes like this: "FUUUUUUUUUCK YEEEEES, hell yeh bitch, take that motherfucker". I scream this, and it arouses me so much to win. I think you connect with your strong sexual energy when competing, and especially winning. Women may connect to their sexual energy in a different way, or just react different to winning then men. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On November 20 2010 00:42 crappen wrote: I have a sister who plays fotball, and I really dont buy the "women are raised and stereotyped into being non-competive" part. My father just dont get it why she is kind of afraid of the ball, going 1on1 with the ball etc. He tries to encourage her, but it's like she just dont want to 1v1 with the ball. You also have to realise, what do we men do when winning sc2? I can only speak for myself, and it goes like this: "FUUUUUUUUUCK YEEEEES, hell yeh bitch, take that motherfucker". I scream this, and it arouses me so much to win. I think you connect with your strong sexual energy when competing, and especially winning. Women may connect to their sexual energy in a different way, or just react different to winning then men. A lot of women (who already play games) would say that same line as well. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I have a sister who plays fotball, and I really dont buy the "women are raised and stereotyped into being non-competive" part. My father just dont get it why she is kind of afraid of the ball, going 1on1 with the ball etc. He tries to encourage her, but it's like she just dont want to 1v1 with the ball. You also have to realise, what do we men do when winning sc2? I can only speak for myself, and it goes like this: "FUUUUUUUUUCK YEEEEES, hell yeh bitch, take that motherfucker". I scream this, and it arouses me so much to win. I think you connect with your strong sexual energy when competing, and especially winning. Women may connect to their sexual energy in a different way, or just react different to winning then men. You get off on Starcraft? I say this as a dude who loves Starcraft and plays it waaay too much. That is fucking wierd, and I don't think its typical of anyone, male or female. Next thing you'll be asking your girlfriend to dress up like a Zerg queen so you can "spawn some larvae".... | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
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zeeQue
United Kingdom184 Posts
On November 20 2010 00:47 awesomoecalypse wrote: You get off on Starcraft? I say this as a dude who loves Starcraft and plays it waaay too much. That is fucking wierd, and I don't think its typical of anyone, male or female. Next thing you'll be asking your girlfriend to dress up like a Zerg queen so you can "spawn some larvae".... Last line was amazing :D. In all seriousness, I used to play CSS with a few girls and they were just as competitive as the lads were in matches, to the point it would be them screaming and shouting at us, I also have friends that play the likes of COD, they may not be as good as people who play it 12 hours a day, but they enjoy it. I guess Starcraft doesn't have any appeal unless they know someone who plays it or their boyfriend/husband plays it, the amount of times I've tried to get my girlfriend to watch games, and she's not having any of it  | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
2 - Women generally prefer different occupations and pasttimes (EG: few are interested in mechanical engineering) 3 - ^ What Stuv said. 4 - Let's be honest. You want more female gamers so you can fantasize about having a relationship with a woman with passable looks and personality that is weird enough to like Starcraft 2. It will probably never happen. =) | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
Female sports are plenty competitive. If you have ever seen Women's soccer, those girls are viscous. I would imagine that if a female dominated game such as the Sims had a competitive scene, it would be dominated by women. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 19 2010 23:50 Floundering wrote: Having said that, used to play WoW (a lot) and guilded with/knew some awesome lady gamers. Not sure what makes WoW different from SC2 in that regard? I know a lot of females who play WoW (my wife included), but very few of them are interested in PvP. I do know a couple of really good female PvPers. I asked my wife to be healer in 2v2, she was good at it but she didn't enjoy the adrenaline levels at all. | ||
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Gingerninja
United Kingdom1339 Posts
On November 20 2010 00:57 0neder wrote: 1 - Women are generally wiser and realize that other avenues in life are more meaningful/fulfilling 2 - Women generally prefer different occupations and pasttimes (EG: few are interested in mechanical engineering) 3 - ^ What Stuv said. 4 - Let's be honest. You want more female games so you can fantasize about having a relationship with a woman with passable looks and personality that is weird enough to like Starcraft 2. It will probably never happen. =) My girlfriend loves mechanical engineering as a matter of fact.. she was an aeroplane technician and loves engines and how they work. But even from 6000 miles away currently.. if i ever mention Starcraft I can hear her eyes rolling. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
My former Aion guild of about 50 members was about half females. And they are competative as hell. My 65 year old mother is a healer in an Everquest2 raidguild since 2005 My ex-gf, still a good friend, tries every new mmo and plays a lot of games like lol, hon, diablo. But at birthday parties or other occasions where a lot of non-gamers are neither of them will talk about their gaming, because they are ashamed of talking about it because they think people will find them weird. Another story: Me, a guy, not bad looking, 36, placed a photo of me on a datingsite, I had a lot of flirts within a day. Then I added some more info to my profile, which among a lot of other more social hobbies also had internet/computers/gaming. The day after I had 0, zero, flirts. So next day I didn't change anything besides removing "internet/computers/gaming" and the next day I had like 20 flirts again.... That was pretty astounding. Are women really that single minded? I have 1 hobby they don't like and because of that I fail as a potential candidate? So I have to lie and not mention my hobbies or females won't like me? But what about my ex with whom I played many mmo's for years and we both loved it? And what about all the female gamers I know? And what about trends like this? http://webtrends.about.com/b/2010/02/17/more-women-play-social-games-than-men.htm But still, when I do a search on the most popular dating site in my country about 10 of the 100000 women say they have gaming as hobby.... I'm so sure there are so many female gamers out there, but they are somehow ashamed of it, still in the closet. Somehow gaming is still seen as not done by the female population. | ||
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out4blood
United States313 Posts
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Rea-Rea
United States42 Posts
I have plenty of girlfriends who all play starcraft with me. We play to have fun and also to be competitive (especially on iCCup). I dislike farmville, I dislike WoW. And I mean, really dislike it. Couple of my friends will play that crap, but it's whatever. We still play StarCraft. I'm not saying we win most of our games, but it's ridiculous that some of you think that we're not competent enough. Seriously. We feel that we're competitive. Whether or not that we decide to be in tournaments or try to be 'someone' in the 'pro-scene' is another ball game. It's sad that a lot of people think girl gamers do not exist, or do NOT have a fair chance to becoming a competitive/professional player. Oh, the sexism too. Can't forget about that. I don't give a crap about statistics. I'm stating based on my own personal time to gaming and friends. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:09 out4blood wrote: We don't see a lot of pro females because we don't see a lot of female gamers. With a much smaller sample, large deviations from the mean (i.e. pro skill) are less likely to show up. But even if there were equal numbers of female gamers, would top females be able to compete with top males? Male and female physical capabilities are different. Why should we assume that their mental capabilities are not different as well? We don't assume that their mental capabilities are different because there is no evidence of it. Women currently outperform men in the US at most levels of education. There are less women in science and engineering, but the women do not under-perform compared to their male peers when external factors are accounted for. | ||
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