EPT(Internet----------------------------------------Girls)
Discussing the lack of top female starcraft gamers - Page 4
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
(Internet----------------------------------------Girls) | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
That's it. It has nothing to do with competitiveness or anything else. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Why should we assume that their mental capabilities are not different as well? Because there isn't much evidence for it, and what evidence there is actually points to women having slightly higher IQs on average. | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:09 out4blood wrote: We don't see a lot of pro females because we don't see a lot of female gamers. With a much smaller sample, large deviations from the mean (i.e. pro skill) are less likely to show up. But even if there were equal numbers of female gamers, would top females be able to compete with top males? Male and female physical capabilities are different. Why should we assume that their mental capabilities are not different as well? wow, what century are you from? | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:14 hmunkey wrote: It's more socially unacceptable for women to play video games than for men. the same applies to children -- girls don't grow up wanting to play games like boys do. That's it. It has nothing to do with competitiveness or anything else. My wife, and a good number of other women I know play a ton of games. There's nothing "socially unacceptable" about it. They just don't seem to enjoy certain types of games. Racing games come to mind. It doesn't help that most games are heavily marketed towards men. It's all testosterone-laden giant biceps swinging giant guns, and any women are either damsels in distress or soft-core porn scenery. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:14 hmunkey wrote: It's more socially unacceptable for women to play video games than for men. the same applies to children -- girls don't grow up wanting to play games like boys do. That's it. It has nothing to do with competitiveness or anything else. And you have anything to prove that other than I said so. There is a lot of research, mechanisms to explain why it is a biological thing, is there anything that really points to it being because it is socially unacceptable ? In many countries in a lot of social groups it is not unacceptable any more, yet girls still do not play games competitively as much as boys. Problem is the rate of emancipation highly exceeds the rate of increase in women's competitiveness. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10981 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:08 Zandar wrote: friend, tries every new mmo and plays a lot of games like lol, hon, diablo. But at birthday parties or other occasions where a lot of non-gamers are neither of them will talk about their gaming, because they are ashamed of talking about it because they think people will find them weird.. Uhm... If you are talking about gaming at a party around people that probably have no clue of the game... Then your doing it WRONG. Or would you discuss the latest Football results with someone that has absoluetly no interest in football? | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On November 19 2010 23:40 vicariouscheese wrote: because the swedish womens curling team is too amazing to watch to be ruined by men playing alongside. Word! :D | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:17 awesomoecalypse wrote: Because there isn't much evidence for it, and what evidence there is actually points to women having slightly higher IQs on average. Mental capabilities do not equal IQ. There are different aspect to your psyche, and a lot of them is more important than IQ as far as RTS goes. There is a lot of evidence for women having different average abilities in a lot of areas, in some better, in some worse. I am not sure how this affects SC, but it definitely could, but I think it is unimportant compared to women's unwillingness to actually play the game. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On November 20 2010 00:40 Fa1nT wrote: Men have competitive hobbies, women are competitive in the real world and learning =/ This and everything awesomoecalypse said is also my opinion. My opinion about ideas about different biology of the brain and mental capability: Nowadays women go to university more than men and have overall better academic success (I think... I hope I'm not remembering wrong). This stems from the success of whatever feminism movement there was. From the time before that I heard stuff like: in the 1950s in Germany, the husband could quit the wife's job without her approval. A society with rules like that must have been pretty demotivational for a woman looking to accomplish something. And with academic results being behind men's, consensus could have been, that women's brains just weren't as good as men's for academics. I believe a "different biology" argument is idiotic. On November 20 2010 00:38 Black Gun wrote: women lack this kind of default competitiveness. women are rated by their looks and their social competence, not by their success in competition of any kind. therefore, it lies in the nature of females to tend to not make a competition out of any generic hobby they pursue. they just dont get the same amount of respect from other women and interest from men for being good at any hobby that men do get. therefore, the investment of free time and mental resources (determination etc.) into competing at hobbies that dont fit into the typical female role agenda doesnt provide women the same payoff as it does for men. thats why there are less women who are into competitive gaming. I think women are very much competitive in everything they deem important. Not any less than men. Also, I have the feeling, the rules for girls growing up, what behaviour is allowed and what is deemed unacceptable, are harsher than for boys. Playing BW every day after school for 10 hours and past midnight leads to "discussions" with the parents, and I'm betting a girl would hear more or a different, harsher type of nagging than a boy. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:20 mcc wrote: And you have anything to prove that other than I said so. There is a lot of research, mechanisms to explain why it is a biological thing, is there anything that really points to it being because it is socially unacceptable ? In many countries in a lot of social groups it is not unacceptable any more, yet girls still do not play games competitively as much as boys. Problem is the rate of emancipation highly exceeds the rate of increase in women's competitiveness. There's research on there being more innate competitiveness in males than females? Please give your sources on these research and mechanisms. I CAN tell you that you're probably 99% wrong regarding biological coding for competition behaviour, but maybe I've missed something  | ||
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Energin
Canada89 Posts
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:12 Rea-Rea wrote: I think most of you are a joke. I have plenty of girlfriends who all play starcraft with me. We play to have fun and also to be competitive (especially on iCCup). I dislike farmville, I dislike WoW. And I mean, really dislike it. Couple of my friends will play that crap, but it's whatever. We still play StarCraft. I'm not saying we win most of our games, but it's ridiculous that some of you think that we're not competent enough. Seriously. We feel that we're competitive. Whether or not that we decide to be in tournaments or try to be 'someone' in the 'pro-scene' is another ball game. It's sad that a lot of people think girl gamers do not exist, or do NOT have a fair chance to becoming a competitive/professional player. Oh, the sexism too. Can't forget about that. I don't give a crap about statistics. I'm stating based on my own personal time to gaming and friends. So are you saying that the reason we don't see more female progamers isn't because of any inherent difference in skill or motivation, but instead because you choose not to enter into tournaments and become known to the community as a result? I have to admit I'm not convinced that argument is the fundamental reason why the vast majority of progamers are male. I can't see there being a very large number of girl gamers who put in the time and effort to reach the level of the top male gamers, but then decide not to enter tournaments. It just doesn't sound like a decision anyone would make. I'm more convinced by the argument that the majority of girl gamers just don't feel the motivation to reach those standards in the first place, so far far fewer female gamers really try to get to the top. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:31 Energin wrote: Honestly guys its because women give up too easily. SC2 is a difficult and competitive game without a social aspect. My wife is a gamer girl straight up. She's logged more hours on world of warcraft than I have, played the sims and sid meier's alpha centauri but SC2 owned her. It's not that she couldn't grasp how to play or anything. It's that she lost interest almost immediately because of how difficult it was, despite grasping the fundamentals fairly quickly. Sweeping generalization on women based on your wife. Nice. Too bad about your wife though, perhaps a little encouragement would have helped? | ||
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SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On November 19 2010 23:31 SilverPotato wrote: Simply put, In almost every society, gaming among women is looked down upon. gaming is looked down upon in most societys. we are stereotyped as teenages who do not contribute or have serious issues to deal with. this compiled ontop of being a girl gamer doesnt float well if ur a girl. gaming is a a guy thing so its natural that girls dont play. but things are changing rapidly, i wouldnt be surprised to see a bunch more pop up within the nxt 5 years | ||
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SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
On November 20 2010 01:17 awesomoecalypse wrote: Because there isn't much evidence for it, and what evidence there is actually points to women having slightly higher IQs on average. There is thousands of studies about the difference in brains between genders. http://www.doctorhugo.org/brain4.html is a straight forward list of the broad differences but you can find thousands of articles on the subject by just typing "differences between the male and female brain" in google. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
so yeh, if esport can be as popular as 'real sport' (eg Tennis etc), we will defo see some russian girls' pretty faces show up for the games :p | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
1. In the big five personality traits, women score higher in Agreeableness (tendency to be compassionate and cooperative) and Neuroticism (tendency to feel anxiety, anger, and depression). 2. Males are generally more aggressive than females (Coi & Dodge 1997, Maccoby & Jacklin 1974, Buss 2005). There is evidence that males are quicker to aggression (Frey et al. 2003) and more likely than females to express their aggression physically (Bjorkqvist et al. 1994). However, some researchers (such as Rachel Simmons) have suggested that females are not necessarily less aggressive, but that they tend to show their aggression in less overt, less physical ways (Bjorkqvist et al. 1994, Hines and Saudino 2003). For example, females may display more verbal and relational aggression, such as social rejection. 3. Girls score higher on self-report scales of empathy, on samples ranging from school-age children to adults. Empathy scales include measures of perspective taking, orientation towards another person, empathic concern, and personal distress. However, such measures are subjective and empathy may be more related to gender role rather than sex. 4. Many recent studies have concluded that IQ performances of men and women vary little. 5. Decoding can be defined as a "capacity to judge, to interpret and to identify others' emotions from nonverbal cues." (295)[23] Typically, women are more accurate in decoding nonverbal cues' emotional meaning than men. (read: better at interperating their opponents emotional state) 6. In an American study in 2005, the percentage of men using the Internet was very slightly ahead of the percentage of women, although this difference reversed in those under 30. Men logged on more often, spend more time online, and are more likely to be broadband users, whereas women tended to make more use of opportunities to communicate (such as email). Men were more likely to use the Internet to pay bills, participate in auctions, and for recreation such as downloading music and videos. So statistically (and i'm not going to draw any real conclusions from this, just infering from what a quick ten minute search revealed) what I'm reading says that women are better at interperating what their opponent is doing (mind games), while men are more aggressive and competative. Now obviously the differences in these are small enough it is unlikely to see any real correlation among actual starcraft players; theres going to be major outliers obviously. For real correlational studies we'll have to look at things like chess statistics, to see how and how often female chess players get to and win high levels of play. anyway, interperate the data how you will, i just think this subject is interesting. | ||
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