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On February 23 2011 09:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 08:32 genius_man16 wrote:I wonder if Blizzard will ever release more information on Division tiers and MMR. It seems a little pathetic and worrisome that they are so guarded with simple equation information in their game. Why are they hiding it? Any reason they have ever given is just a load of crap. Anyway, on topic, I really enjoy reading this but some of it is still a little above my head. Like how did you determine what kind of division is S-Class and stuff? You don't have to answer b/c I don't think I'll understand it, just thinking out loud a little  I mentioned this in the FAQ section. Show nested quote +Q: How did you arrive at these numbers? What methods did you use?
A: You'll notice that the list of players is numbered in Blizz's Top 200. Some players are tied for the same rank. Because it's been explained that the Top 200 is based on points but without division modifiers applied, that means that all players who are tied for the same rank in the Top 200 all had the same unmodified point totals. The Top 200 doesn't list points, only player records, so you have to work backwards along their match history to determine what their point total was at the time of the snapshot.
For example, if Player A is #100 and his Top 200 record was 50-50, but now it's 53-52, you would look at his current rating, go back in his match history, and start adding back points for losses and subtracting points for wins for his last 5 games. Let's say the result is a rating of 1000 and he's in Division A. If Player B is also tied for #100 and you determine his rating is 800 in Division B, then you know that 800 in Division B is equal to 1000 in Division A. Once enough of these data points surface (and I was jotting them down in that "data points" spoiler section as I found them), patterns begin to emerge.
At first, I found the +126 modifier. Then, I found the +252. Then I found the +315. Then the +63. Then I inferred the +189 (between +170 and 200, and 189 fit the +63 per tier pattern).
I read that but it just doesn't really make any sense to me 
I guess i'm just too math stupid, lol.
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On November 18 2010 05:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:SEA Known Division Tiers:+ Show Spoiler +S-Rank (+0)
Corruptor Tango
Zealot Epsilon
Khala Bravo
A-Rank (+63)
Queen Foxtrot
Firebat Sierra
B-Rank (+126)
Kagg Gamma
Feld Indigo
C-Rank (+189)
Scarab Nu
Siege Tank Alpha
Changeling Victor
D-Rank (+252)
Roach Sigma
Drone Romeo
Zekrath Beta
Carrier Kilo
Stukov Pepper
Felanis Phi
E-Rank (+315)
Turaxis Tau
Hanson Delta
War Pigs Dixie
Zekrath Theta
Infestor Yankee
Ulrezaj Zeta
Umoja Hawk
Stukov Xi
Zergling Lambda
Hydralisk Lima
Prelate November
War Pigs Iota
Valkyrie Charlie
Khaydarin Omega
New Folsom Mars
Tabrenus Whiskey
Kaloth Juliet
Zer'Atai Eta
Warp Prism Zed
Viking Rho
Ghost Echo
Viking Tau
Banshee Quest
Moria Pi
Hanson Foxtrot
Ladranix Omicron
Baneling Chi
Kaloth Mu
F-Rank (+378)
Overlord Psi
Kerrigan Pi
Carrier Gamma
Aleksander Alamo
I added the division tiers for every division that isn't listed here, from what we discussed last night:
+ Show Spoiler +Name Tier Corruptor Tango S Khala Bravo S Zealot Epsilon S Monlyth Nu S* Firebat Sierra A Queen Foxtrot A Feld Indigo B Kagg Gamma B Felanis Uncle B* Changeling Victor C Scarab Nu C Siege Tank Alpha C Carrier Kilo D Drone Romeo D Felanis Phi D Roach Sigma D Stukov Pepper D Zekrath Beta D Taarim Tango D* Artika Oscar E Baneling Chi E Banshee Quest E Ghost Echo E Hanson Delta E Hanson Foxtrot E Hydralisk Lima E Infestor Yankee E Kaloth Juliet E Kaloth Mu E Khaydarin Omega E Ladranix Omicron E Moria Pi E New Folsom Mars E Prelate November E Stukov Xi E Tabrenus Whiskey E Tassadar Upsilon E Turaxis Tau E Ulrezaj Zeta E Umoja Hawk E Valkyrie Charlie E Viking Rho E Viking Tau E War Pigs Dixie E War Pigs Iota E Warp Prism Zed E Zekrath Theta E Zer’atai Eta E Zergling Lambda E Kalathi Xi E* Kerrigan X-Ray E* Koronis Gravity E* Marauder Beta E* Praetor Kappa E* Scourge Juliet E* Aleksander Alamo F Carrier Gamma F Kerrigan Pi F Overlord Psi F * My best guess https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aj5e5-iDDBbddEhNOWVTc1lhYTRvNWJOSXJ6d3RsVlE&hl=en#gid=0
I'm pretty sure you could do this for NA with extremely high accuracy, but that alone took a bit more work than I wanted to put into it.
And PLEASE change the nomenclature to offset from E-Rank, not S-Rank. Every player I looked at where I had sufficient evidence--if he was placed in one of these non E-Rank divisions, he had some anomolous quality to him.... either some period of prolonged inactivity, or demotion from master, or some long streak after not playing for a long time, or VERY few games played (~30 or less)
EDIT: It seems like the division names are specific for each LEAGUE in each SERVER. In other words, all Diamond first S-Tier Divisions for 1, 2, 3, 4 AT/RT will have the same name. All Plat first S-Tier Divisions for 1, 2, 3, 4 AT/RT will have the same name.
For LA/NA the naming system could be the same, but they are both different from SEA, which is different from KOR, which is different from TW.
I'd venture a guess that if you could get sc2ranks to parse the first date joined and the last date joined by division (which would require the same page-refresh effort as it is currently doing), you could determine almost all division tiers for almost all divisions on a server.
Here's the 4v4 team Plat I did:
+ Show Spoiler +
4v4 team
Rank Name Avg points Avg games Avg wins Teams Age Rank
4 Firebat Sigma 207 27 68.27% 100 45 mins A
5 Koronis Alamo 105 12 74.61% 100 47 mins A
6 Jorgensen Echo 101 12 83.14% 100 45 mins A
7 Scout November 88 11 84.88% 100 45 mins A
8 Ramsey Tau 82 11 79.70% 100 56 mins A
9 Mohandar Pi 79 11 85.50% 100 45 mins A
10 Braxis Romeo 72 11 84.16% 100 3 hours A
11 Scarab Pepper 68 9 79.02% 100 5 hours A
12 Zekrath Bravo 65 11 86.95% 100 1 hour A
13 Tabrenus Whiskey 64 11 86.24% 100 1 hour A
14 Ehlna Delta 61 9 86.05% 100 2 hours A
15 Bucephalus Omega 58 10 81.96% 100 45 mins A
16 Halcyon Mu 54 9 84.86% 100 21 mins A
17 Aiur Gamma 54 9 85.84% 100 3 hours A
18 Overseer Psi 52 9 87.10% 100 2 hours A
19 Kelerchian Upsilon 33 7 90.65% 98 6 hours A 1/18/2011 2/9/2011
3 DuGalle Chi 216 31 74.84% 97 1 hour B 11/2/2011
2 Khalis Dixie 321 52 74.22% 84 4 hours B 11/14/2011 2/15/2011
20 Praetor Indigo 31 7 91.24% 63 8 mins A 2/11/2011 2/24/2011
1 Akilae Kilo 412 52 76.19% 61 4 hours S 8/7/2010 2/12/2011
I guessed at which tier is which... could be some errors who knows.... I can look at more plat later, but I'm more personally interested in NA Diamond now since I have to get grinding on getting master in 4 categories now....
also, here's one for NA I started:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aj5e5-iDDBbddFNXeGc1cEhUSEhZSWxoeVJCSHp2UUE&hl=en#gid=0
And lastly, here's my data set from SEA Diamond Laddering, complete with division offsets of my opponents.
https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?hl=en&key=tnHcADpOsnu7Nf62MpN0_7Q&hl=en
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I thought division names were unique? What are some of these names?
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This is fail... I have Drewbie, Catz, and other top 200 players in my Division and it's not even listed -_-
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What do you think the MMR difference would be between a 3k+ Diamond player and a 2.6k+ Master player?
Would it be nearly identical?
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On February 27 2011 23:48 Heazy wrote:
This is fail... I have Drewbie, Catz, and other top 200 players in my Division and it's not even listed -_-
masters don't have offsets.
On February 27 2011 23:53 SovSov wrote:
What do you think the MMR difference would be between a 3k+ Diamond player and a 2.6k+ Master player?
Would it be nearly identical?
Depends on bonus pool of each players, and considering bonus pool is on 2.8k+, I assume neither of them spent it completly.
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On February 27 2011 23:56 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 23:48 Heazy wrote:
This is fail... I have Drewbie, Catz, and other top 200 players in my Division and it's not even listed -_- masters don't have offsets. Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 23:53 SovSov wrote:
What do you think the MMR difference would be between a 3k+ Diamond player and a 2.6k+ Master player?
Would it be nearly identical? Depends on bonus pool of each players, and considering bonus pool is on 2.8k+, I assume neither of them spent it completly.
Let's assume they have 100% bonus pool spent then.
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United States12237 Posts
Hey guys, in order to help us with data collection, anytime you play a 1v1 match where you won 12 points (not including bonus pool) and your opponent lost 12 points, post all the relevant data in this thread:
- how many points you had
- what your remaining bonus pool was
- what division you're in
- what league you're in
- your opponent's league
- your opponent's division
- how many points your opponent had
- what your opponent's remaining bonus pool was
This information is pretty time-sensitive in that going back and looking at match histories may not be completely accurate due to the accumulation of the bonus pool (you would have to compensate for this). Just make notes of when you play games that fit this criteria and post them in this thread.
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Hmmm Strange that no one has done this yet. Anyway, here we go
- 1816 (assuming this is points I had before the match) (1840 after)
- 1271 (Before the match) (1259 After)
- Broodling November
- Bronze
- SIlver
- Furinax Mu
- 2173 (before) (2161 after)
- 793
Hope that helps. If not let me know what to change
Oh BTW Im on the European server. Just realised that will affect your calculations.
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On March 05 2011 10:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Hey guys, in order to help us with data collection, anytime you play a 1v1 match where you won 12 points (not including bonus pool) and your opponent lost 12 points, post all the relevant data in this thread:
I said it before, but for some reason 12 point wins/losses (for me) are strangely rare. I don't know why. Here are some stats taken from my gold matches at
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/history.html
Something is going on here, but I don't know what. You would think that even matches would be most common, but they don't seem to.
Losses:
![[image loading]](http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/losses.png)
And wins:
![[image loading]](http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/wins.png)
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That's interesting. I've recently been recording my match data and I notice a similar pattern, although with far less of a sample.
It looks as if points might fall into something of a bimodal distribution. I guess that isn't really all that surprising since your points earned are a function of your points and of your MMR. I'm not sure that that explains it though.
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- how many points you had - 3207
- what your remaining bonus pool was - 1
- what division you're in - Nahaan Alamo
- what league you're in - Diamond
- your opponent's league - Diamond
- your opponent's division - Praetor November
- how many points your opponent had - 3237
- what your opponent's remaining bonus pool was - 0
- how many points you had - 3220
- what your remaining bonus pool was - 0
- what division you're in - Nahaan Alamo
- what league you're in - Diamond
- your opponent's league - Diamond
- your opponent's division - Hive Delta
- how many points your opponent had - 3291
- what your opponent's remaining bonus pool was - 12
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Ok this just happened and I thought it might help. Just got promoted from:
Bronze (Broodling November) to Silver (Tosh Upsilon) My points dropped from 1949 (including the win that caused the promotion) to 1838. That seems to a drop of 111. You said multiples of 56 which would give 112. Maybe I've got the maths wrong, but I don't thing so...
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United States12237 Posts
On March 08 2011 06:20 Candles wrote:
Ok this just happened and I thought it might help. Just got promoted from:
Bronze (Broodling November) to Silver (Tosh Upsilon) My points dropped from 1949 (including the win that caused the promotion) to 1838. That seems to a drop of 111. You said multiples of 56 which would give 112. Maybe I've got the maths wrong, but I don't thing so...
Whenever you change leagues, your points get reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. So that means you've spent 1765 bonus pool. How many points did you earn for your last game?
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On March 08 2011 06:11 bLah. wrote:
- how many points you had - 3207
- what your remaining bonus pool was - 1
- what division you're in - Nahaan Alamo
- what league you're in - Diamond
- your opponent's league - Diamond
- your opponent's division - Praetor November
- how many points your opponent had - 3237
- what your opponent's remaining bonus pool was - 0
- how many points you had - 3220
- what your remaining bonus pool was - 0
- what division you're in - Nahaan Alamo
- what league you're in - Diamond
- your opponent's league - Diamond
- your opponent's division - Hive Delta
- how many points your opponent had - 3291
- what your opponent's remaining bonus pool was - 12
On 1) a difference of 29 points if the math is after match, but only 5 points if before match.
On 2) 83 points if after, 59 if before.
As the later number makes more sense for me (closer to 0-63-126-etc), I think the math is done with MMR before match result.
What do you think Excalibur_Z.
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On March 07 2011 23:37 Candles wrote:Hmmm Strange that no one has done this yet. Anyway, here we go - 1816 (assuming this is points I had before the match) (1840 after) - 1271 (Before the match) (1259 After) - Broodling November - Bronze - SIlver - Furinax Mu - 2173 (before) (2161 after) - 793 Hope that helps. If not let me know what to change Oh BTW Im on the European server. Just realised that will affect your calculations.
(before) 3087 - 2966 = 121
Again,pretty close to 63*X (126) (but that shouldn't matter as they are not in the same league)
Edit: Ops, this is not diamond and diamond, but bronze and silver.. nvm get pay better attention.
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How do we find out what our opponent's remaining bonus pool is?
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On March 08 2011 07:40 Megaman703 wrote:
How do we find out what our opponent's remaining bonus pool is?
Look at their profile page, the page with his 1x1 league:
my example (the team I use to see how much bonus pool is the max cause I don't play there anymore): can be done in-game.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/54441/2/SDream/ladder/31299#current-rank
Soon everyone will have 3000 bonus points ^^
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United States12237 Posts
Yeah definitely, it has to calculate how many points the game will be worth before points are actually awarded, which means comparing MMRs from the beginning.
That gap is pretty huge, more than I would have expected. 29 point difference, sure okay. 71 point difference... I've gotta think that's a separate tier.
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EPT
