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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:52 Tripal wrote: But the fact that you [b]MUST/b] build the thing removes the possibility of going stargate tech or templar tech early on without losing to banshee. So what, its the same thing as PvP in bw. I dont see the problem with "having" to go robo tech. If you really wanna go templar or stargate, get cannons. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:55 Sadist wrote: So what, its the same thing as PvP in bw. I dont see the problem with "having" to go robo tech. If you really wanna go templar or stargate, get cannons. With 7 range and 8(?) vision I wouldn't recommend trying to rely on cannons vs the 6 range banshees. It's probably cheaper to build the robo. | ||
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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:56 Logo wrote: With 7 range and 8(?) vision I wouldn't recommend trying to rely on cannons vs the 6 range banshees. It's probably cheaper to build the robo. Exactly, if you want to FE quit bitching and build the robo. Its not like it slows you down anyway. You can go templar tech after that if you really want to. | ||
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:17 Knutzi wrote: well since were all just trying too waste some time while spamming f5 on the gsl qualifier i think il post some retarded sugestions on how too help protoss 1.make it possible too chronoboost on a pylon giving the chronoboosted pylon stealth detection for a short while making it possible too skip robotics and not instantly lose against stealth. 2.stalkers get 2+ damage against armored per uppgrade instead of 1, small buff but i think it would help a littlebit against speed roaches and marauders 3. make achrons massive. 4. reduce the research time and mana cost for hallucination, this would help protoss with scouting options early on obviously after this protoss probably would need a nerf on the collosus and sentry as these two units are just stupid good Lol giving pylons chrono detect is almost exactly like giving toss a scan. "Oh shit cloaked banshee 1+a stalkers + chrono a pylon, damn its a good thing I wasn't punished for my lack of scouting!" I agree with most of the other stuff though, Collosi need to be nerfed in order for other stuff to be buffed, buff stalkers with current collosi would be broken as hell. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:55 Sadist wrote: So what, its the same thing as PvP in bw. I dont see the problem with "having" to go robo tech. If you really wanna go templar or stargate, get cannons. You can't cannon your entire base. Even if you put enough down to cover your mineral like the banshees will start to go to work on your army/pylons/key tech. Not to mention both those tech routes are big resource investments, your ground army is quite pitiful, investing in cannons means Terran can just roll you with whatever army he has built up. Exactly, if you want to FE quit bitching and build the robo. Its not like it slows you down anyway. You can go templar tech after that if you really want to. I hate this line of thinking. No you cant. Templar tech from Robo is a good 1000/1000 investment and 4mins (all your chorno boosts) of teching before you get Storm and Amulet. Throw in a robo and observer ontop of that and your army would comprised of 2 zealots and a stalker. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
On November 16 2010 14:59 Dommk wrote: You can't cannon your entire base. Even if you put enough down to cover your mineral like the banshees will start to go to work on your army/pylons/key tech. Not to mention both those tech routes are big resource investments, your ground army is quite pitiful, investing in cannons means Terran can just roll you with whatever army he has built up. so dont go stargate or templar tech without obs first and transition to them later in the game. P is doing fine going robo. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
Protoss favored in 2 regions(Na - 55%, Korean - 58%) in diamond. But is a little weaker than T in one (48% in Europe) Zerg matchups are almost as bad too, favors Zerg in Korea( ZvP - 57%, ZvT - 54%) and is mostly balanced in other regions While this isn't the end all, it's still interesting. I really do think Region Locking is making this much harder for them, and the sooner they get rid of it(Which is on the way it eventually) the less headache they'll have. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On November 16 2010 15:01 Sadist wrote: so dont go stargate or templar tech without obs first and transition to them later in the game. P is doing fine going robo. The point is P want to go different tech routes without having to be pigeon holed into a specific tech path first. Yes they are doing fine, but this is like if Terran HAD to go 3 Barracks with techlabs before going to any other tech path, would Terran be fine? Yeah, but it is pretty dull. | ||
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mols0n
Canada388 Posts
I`m actually so shocked at the 58% win ratio for pvt on the euro server. TvP is my strongest matchup imo(1800 terran). But of course I end it early-mid game. Scv all-ins ftw!!!  | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
The main issue seems to be that terran is balanced about going bio, and just as in BW i just can't see bio winning over storm, even considering how "bad" storm is now in regards to it's BW counterpart. | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
On November 16 2010 13:32 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Buffing the sentry would be the opposite of what I have in mind, I think thats one of the units they are far too reliant on and that, in some situations, is far too strong (its stupid that force field traps units now, instead of pushing them back). However, you cant nerf it without buffing something else. I straight up love your balance posts Mr.Jinro, ever since day 1 of the beta i've been reluctantly coming to the SC2 forum, and your posts always seem to hit the nail on the head, from my own perspective at least. Your balance discussions have maintained the quality we were used to in the BW forums. Personally what i fear at the moment is that whiners seem to rule Blizzard's balancing approach, if any toss units were to be buffed, most terrans would go mad with 4gate whine. Sure, stats are great at looking at some balance, but without sounding arrogant you just can't approach the balance for the masses - there was a certain bio push for T as well in BW (i believe Berseker did it from time to time?) which was pretty damn strong as well - but it was straight up countered by some good Reaver micro. (My reaver micro was terrible, so one of my Terran friends just kept doing this bio push until i had it down) | ||
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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
On November 16 2010 15:07 MaD.pYrO wrote: A nerf to High Templar would be pure garbage - the choice between High Templar or Colossus is pretty tough right now at best, if HT were to be nerfed Colossus would just be the only choice - and i don't know about you, but i like having a choice. The main issue seems to be that terran is balanced about going bio, and just as in BW i just can't see bio winning over storm, even considering how "bad" storm is now in regards to it's BW counterpart. From personal experience storm isnt that hard to play against (granted im not the greatest at the game). Its relatively easy to dodge and you can actually counter it with emp. The problem is colossus doing insane damage when you get like 3-4 of them. Im sure part of it is due to maps having narrow pathways so you cant really flank the protoss army once they get colossus. Templars are essentially just a buff to colossus. | ||
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
On November 16 2010 13:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote: IMO protoss need certain things nerfed and then other areas really buffed, they are a bit too unbalanced (not imbalanced, just they seem to alternate between unbeatable and helpless). think jinro said it best. The funny thing there are so many people that claim that toss is helpless vs terran even at the 2k + level -_- | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On November 16 2010 15:10 Sadist wrote: From personal experience storm isnt that hard to play against (granted im not the greatest at the game). Its relatively easy to dodge and you can actually counter it with emp. The problem is colossus doing insane damage when you get like 3-4 of them. Im sure part of it is due to maps having narrow pathways so you cant really flank the protoss army once they get colossus. Templars are essentially just a buff to colossus. Yeah, totally agree. Like I said before every matchup involving Protoss revolves around the Colossi. Bio and Zerg HAVE to do so well vs gateway units because it's the only way they can stop/prevent/survive colossi. People will say "omg air units" and that's true now, but only because we can have a leaner force to deal with the remaining gateway mix and it's not as big of a deal that a big part of our army is useless after killing the colossi. | ||
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
On November 16 2010 12:34 schiznak wrote: I wasn't aware that PvT was so protoss favored, this is probably the only signifigant information we can get from these numbers i really wouldnt take the whole of diamond as an accurate representation of balance tbh T-T.... These figures are pretty worthless imo, almost every single one of them, dono why they even release them, all it does it make outcries of people claiming imba =\ | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
On November 16 2010 15:25 lolaloc wrote: If forced observers are the problem, then I think it would be best if you can make them from the Cybernetics Core... or just buff Zealot/Stalker. Naw man, forced observer is np, it was the same with spider mines in BW. Zealots are pretty weak though, especially against Zerg... Roaches are out = Zealots become useless. | ||
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robocup30
Canada21 Posts
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