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On November 07 2010 18:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:42 5unrise wrote:On November 07 2010 18:38 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 07 2010 18:28 5unrise wrote:On November 07 2010 18:23 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 07 2010 18:18 5unrise wrote:
I think these stats are fine, maybe Terran could use a little buff (e.g. removes depot before rax requirement), but all matchups are pretty well balanced Terran needing a buff? If we're looking at statistics, mainly look at Koreas ones, that's where most strats come from and contribute a lot to the metagame that will eventually follow to the other servers. T is fine. P doesn't look very good. I disagree, since there are are progaming teams very much everywhere for sc2, there is no reason to put greater weight on Korea. It's not like this is bw where Korea just dominates. There really isn't much of skill gap between Korea and Europe, for example. Just because toss is doing well in Korea doesnt mean toss is UP, since clearly European and NA players have different experiences, and my ladder experiences tell me that toss is very strong if the player makes good decisions. If anything toss should be watched carefully since they are too strong in lower level leagues. Statistics overall show that protoss is fine, Terran is at more of a disadvantage. Disclaimer: I play zerg I disagree. Korea should have more weight seeing how, and this is just about universally accepted: Korea has a higher skill level. It is like bw wher Korea dominates there is a skill gap between Europe and Korea for example DIFFERENT winrates. You know why there's different winrates? The higherskilled players (Koreans, generally) find out most strats first and push races to the limit. Why is there such varying winrates from Korea to, for example SEA or NA? Because the metagame is completely different. I did not say protoss is UP and yes, overall Protoss maybe doing fine but are they doing fine where it counts? If this was broodwar then it is universally accepted. At this point what you said has no empirical backing. Remember blizzcon winner was a Chinese, not a Korean. Higher skilled players can come from anywhere at this point, and so winrates from each region must be taken into account. In any case, even if you only compare Korea, which is a wrong approach, you will see that protoss winrate against other races are close to 50% to the extent that the differential is negligible. Toss is fine. I thought NEXGenius was korean and loner was the chinese? NEXGenius won blizzcon >.>
oops sorry I was thinking of the loner vs sen match, disregard that, was silly
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They should filter out at least bottom half of diamond league. Up to 1400 diamond you can get away with never going beyond 20 probes/SCVs and rely on 4-gate/7RR/3 rax stim push.
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Oh here look at these stats without map information. This is pretty useless data and seems like a desperate blog post that doesn't give the real picture of how things really are.
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On November 07 2010 17:35 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 17:24 Dommk wrote:Click for Full blog postNorth America – Diamond- PvT - 56.5%
- PvZ - 47.9%
- TvZ - 49.1%
Korea – Diamond- PvT - 48.3%
- PvZ - 47.4%
- TvZ - 50.5%
Europe – Diamond- PvT - 45.3%
- PvZ - 51.6%
- TvZ - 55.0%
SEA – Diamond- PvT 54.9%
- PvZ 45.0%
- TvZ 46.8%
Pretty interesting to see how different each region is The stats show that Zerg is OP in 3 out of 4 regions. Not surprising - this is something the community suspected aleady.
get out
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On November 07 2010 18:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:42 5unrise wrote:On November 07 2010 18:38 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 07 2010 18:28 5unrise wrote:On November 07 2010 18:23 QuantumTheory wrote:On November 07 2010 18:18 5unrise wrote:
I think these stats are fine, maybe Terran could use a little buff (e.g. removes depot before rax requirement), but all matchups are pretty well balanced Terran needing a buff? If we're looking at statistics, mainly look at Koreas ones, that's where most strats come from and contribute a lot to the metagame that will eventually follow to the other servers. T is fine. P doesn't look very good. I disagree, since there are are progaming teams very much everywhere for sc2, there is no reason to put greater weight on Korea. It's not like this is bw where Korea just dominates. There really isn't much of skill gap between Korea and Europe, for example. Just because toss is doing well in Korea doesnt mean toss is UP, since clearly European and NA players have different experiences, and my ladder experiences tell me that toss is very strong if the player makes good decisions. If anything toss should be watched carefully since they are too strong in lower level leagues. Statistics overall show that protoss is fine, Terran is at more of a disadvantage. Disclaimer: I play zerg I disagree. Korea should have more weight seeing how, and this is just about universally accepted: Korea has a higher skill level. It is like bw wher Korea dominates there is a skill gap between Europe and Korea for example DIFFERENT winrates. You know why there's different winrates? The higherskilled players (Koreans, generally) find out most strats first and push races to the limit. Why is there such varying winrates from Korea to, for example SEA or NA? Because the metagame is completely different. I did not say protoss is UP and yes, overall Protoss maybe doing fine but are they doing fine where it counts? If this was broodwar then it is universally accepted. At this point what you said has no empirical backing. Remember blizzcon winner was a Chinese, not a Korean. Higher skilled players can come from anywhere at this point, and so winrates from each region must be taken into account. In any case, even if you only compare Korea, which is a wrong approach, you will see that protoss winrate against other races are close to 50% to the extent that the differential is negligible. Toss is fine. I thought NEXGenius was korean and loner was the chinese? NEXGenius won blizzcon >.> EDIT: Koreans are better because they have a better environment to practice in. They have lots of people to talk about strategies in a 1 on 1 setting, they have coaches, they have more hours of training, they just have an overall better way to get better at the game.
Very true.
In actual fact, hardly anything has changed since BW.
Korea has always been a better environment to improve in. Hence why so many pros go over there.
However, having saying that e-sports has grown in the foreigner scene so we are catching up, but the skill gap is still there. Don't be blinded by foreigners vs foreigners and thinking they're on the same level as Koreans, most, are not.
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Apparently European Zergs need to l2p
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those stats show nothing, if there was the biggest imbalance that only the top 100 of the respective race are able to use, the stats would still show 50%. this is nothing but useless. if they splittet it in another section for every number of players withing a range from bout 300 pts, it would be interesting.
the top 200 are way more helpfull. and the most helpfull stats are those showing the current win% in tournaments provided by teamliquid users.
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this will mean much more with the coming master's league
still there is a biiig variation for PVT , from 45,3 to 56.5 oO
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I am really interested to know what the time frame of these "latest" win percentages are.
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The match making systems makes all these numbers pointless.
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So... (America + Korea+ Europa + Sea) / 4 =
PvT 51,25%
PvZ 47,975%
TvZ 50,35%
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This is where top players from each server should post the common strats for each match-up used in their region so the general skill level and strategic depth can move forward.
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Idra said earlier today there is only 1 zerg in EU which would make sense how a zerg is only winning 49% in zvp. Protoss really can't deal well with hyrdas and roaches until midgame,but it usually doesn't get far enough. Plus mutas are the bane of a protosses existence.
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On November 07 2010 19:02 darmousseh wrote:
Idra said earlier today there is only 1 zerg in EU which would make sense how a zerg is only winning 49% in zvp. Protoss really can't deal well with hyrdas and roaches until midgame,but it usually doesn't get far enough. Plus mutas are the bane of a protosses existence.
yes, and Idra obviously meant that there is only one Zerg in the entire diamond population.
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On November 07 2010 19:02 darmousseh wrote:
Idra said earlier today there is only 1 zerg in EU which would make sense how a zerg is only winning 49% in zvp. Protoss really can't deal well with hyrdas and roaches until midgame,but it usually doesn't get far enough. Plus mutas are the bane of a protosses existence.
If what you say were true we would probably see much larger than a ~2% difference in win/loss...
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This numbers would have been a lot more interesting if they took the top 1000 players from each reagion instead of the diamond...
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"What's an adjusted win percentage? Well, while the math behind calculating an adjusted win percentage is extremely complex, an adjusted win percentage can be summed up as the 'true' win percentage of a given race, produced by removing the skewing effects of the matchmaker and factoring in player skill."
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. i wonder what the %s before all the fancy complicated math are
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On November 07 2010 17:29 AyJay wrote:
Oh no. WHY BLIZZARD?!?! WHY????
Incoming balance discussions.
Really ?
With numbers like (Europe)PvT - 45.3% versus (North America)PvT - 56.5% I think the last thing this can inspire is a racial balance discussion.
This might explain why players on the boards *feel* for their races to be more unbalanced than they are.
A Euro Toss and a NA Terran will probably both feel their races to be at a disadvantage in the PvT matchup, but what these numbers really seem to imply to me is that on each server, one side seems a bit further ahead in developing successful strategies for this particular matchup.
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On November 07 2010 19:16 xiaofan wrote:
"What's an adjusted win percentage? Well, while the math behind calculating an adjusted win percentage is extremely complex, an adjusted win percentage can be summed up as the 'true' win percentage of a given race, produced by removing the skewing effects of the matchmaker and factoring in player skill."
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. i wonder what the %s before all the fancy complicated math are
It would be irrelevent because it doesn't take into account a player's skill level.
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On November 07 2010 19:16 xiaofan wrote:
"What's an adjusted win percentage? Well, while the math behind calculating an adjusted win percentage is extremely complex, an adjusted win percentage can be summed up as the 'true' win percentage of a given race, produced by removing the skewing effects of the matchmaker and factoring in player skill."
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. i wonder what the %s before all the fancy complicated math are
Ok, I'll tell you:
49-51%, because of the matchmaker. They showed these stats at Blizzcon. Take your conspiracy nonsense somewhere else.
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EPT
