EPTPatch 1.1.2 Notes - Page 79
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
leser
Croatia239 Posts
| ||
|
ElitePlaying
Greenland25 Posts
| ||
|
st3roids
Greece538 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:20 ElitePlaying wrote: VR needed buffing WHAT? Bronze? Void Ray damage was incredibly imba it kills marines so fast, so unless you are 30 stimpack marines vs 8 voidrays is GG marines, that kills all We have vikings, we can shoot and run shoot and run yay thx to range. Void ray has speed and once charged can kill vikings fast before they run away...so stop whining over VR damage and speed. It was a problem since beta. The Medivac speed nerf is also such a stupid idea and so unnecessary. I just watched BratOK vs DarKForce Zerg has no prob reaching and killing Medivacs with mutas, Toss can feedback them which is enough of dealing vs mediac, just n/c this nerf for an english player you sure dont know how to read ffs. vrays needed changes but not a blunt dmg nerf of this magnitude. Now they just expensive piece of shit. vking 9 range will simply own everything now once upgraded add few bcs and the war is over for tvp. charge zealots countering thors - yea gl with that esp with suvs repairing. The only real counter was feedback now they simply too powerfull. Tos have 0 representation in any major tournament finals - icluding beta world cup and gsl yet they get nerfed in every patch bad players cant defend vs a 4gate or a vray rush and thats the solely reason behind this. On the other hand more and more godd players could defend vs reapers esp after 1.1 patch. Nerfing reapers more but buffing thors directly - by been feedback immune and inderectly ( ultra splash dmg ) only makes good terran even harder to beat. So the patch was great for all the noobs outthere who couldnt defend vs cheese but made great terrans even stronger . | ||
|
apexplosive
52 Posts
| ||
|
apexplosive
52 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:31 st3roids wrote: for an english player you sure dont know how to read ffs. vrays needed changes but not a blunt dmg nerf of this magnitude. Now they just expensive piece of shit. vking 9 range will simply own everything now once upgraded add few bcs and the war is over for tvp. charge zealots countering thors - yea gl with that esp with suvs repairing. The only real counter was feedback now they simply too powerfull. Tos have 0 representation in any major tournament finals - icluding beta world cup and gsl yet they get nerfed in every patch bad players cant defend vs a 4gate or a vray rush and thats the solely reason behind this. On the other hand more and more godd players could defend vs reapers esp after 1.1 patch. Nerfing reapers more but buffing thors directly - by been feedback immune and inderectly ( ultra splash dmg ) only makes good terran even harder to beat. So the patch was great for all the noobs outthere who couldnt defend vs cheese but made great terrans even stronger . You do know that Vikings are armored, and voidrays deal 100% more damage towards armored targets now? (Precharged levels 1 and 2). Do more research before you badmouth the new awesome voidrays which I will definitely be using in my Protoss army. On October 15 2010 19:29 leser wrote: just played two games, roaches are insane. couldn't squeeze in more than two games and both were vs toss, so I can't say how roaches feel vs terran, but vs toss they definitely feel much too strong. staklers can't kite them properly anymore and they roll over zealots anyway, and I honestly feel this is a bit too much and that they missed the proper fix to zerg completely, roaches are broken atm. Forcefield still wrecks roaches, although roaches are now phenomenally powerful. | ||
|
(Albert)
France6 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:24 tacrats wrote: rofl. i think ur the minority on this one so you want 1 base low ap games? lol. TLO plays terran, thats why he can do unique things. zerg cant. when TLO plays zerg, he doesnt play 1 base. so your hero tlo goes against what you seem to want. 1 base zerg is a joke. if you dont realize that yet then.... i dont know what to say. with this patch, zerg can now do more as they dont have to worry about reapers and can focus on defending the front. the roach buff helps make zerg units more reliable early game against harass which will allow zerg to push back and go on the offensive. Hey, I never said I loved watching TLO play one base zerg, I said that I found one base zz to be more dynamic because ZZ don't spend hours pumping drones before anything happen. Cellawerra do it quite a lot and I quite like his games. Anyway, my point was more general than that. I don't want one base low APM, I don't want standardised games neither. I would like the game to remain diverse and I think having opportunities to attack at almost any time is part of it. With patch 1.2, early game pressure will be very difficult and move the action to mid-game late-game. And I find it sad, that's all. | ||
|
CHOChi
Germany73 Posts
dunno why.. seems like the range was needed for roaches to fight thors properly | ||
|
(Albert)
France6 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:24 tacrats wrote: TLO plays terran, thats why he can do unique things. zerg cant. Oh, and I missed that one: I perfectly agree with you there, terran was a race with lots of options when compared to other races. The solution was to increase the variety of gameplay of other races in early game. But that's tough so Blizz just decided to cut down the number of startegies for terran and I think that's the wrong thing to do. I once had a bonsai, there was always a branch longer than the others, so I would cut it. At the end, the trunk was bare... Alb | ||
|
Zihn
Denmark50 Posts
VR needed buffing WHAT? Bronze? Void Ray damage was incredibly imba it kills marines so fast, so unless you are 30 stimpack marines vs 8 voidrays is GG marines, that kills all We have vikings, we can shoot and run shoot and run yay thx to range. Void ray has speed and once charged can kill vikings fast before they run away...so stop whining over VR damage and speed. It was a problem since beta. What you just compared is throwing 1600/100 and 30 food against 2000/1200 and 24 food.. i cant help to think that it is imba that such a small investment can kill such a huge investment. Void nerf is totaly overkill, every other nerf have been miniscule in comparison and this is a BAM 50% dps nerf AND a speed nerf, why not just remove the unit form the game all together | ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:50 Zihn wrote: What you just compared is throwing 1600/100 and 30 food against 2000/1200 and 24 food.. i cant help to think that it is imba that such a small investment can kill such a huge investment. Void nerf is totaly overkill, every other nerf have been miniscule in comparison and this is a BAM 50% dps nerf AND a speed nerf, why not just remove the unit form the game all together To be fair, it's speed with the upgrade was far too fast. | ||
|
apexplosive
52 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:50 Zihn wrote: What you just compared is throwing 1600/100 and 30 food against 2000/1200 and 24 food.. i cant help to think that it is imba that such a small investment can kill such a huge investment. Void nerf is totaly overkill, every other nerf have been miniscule in comparison and this is a BAM 50% dps nerf AND a speed nerf, why not just remove the unit form the game all together Its actually a 100% damage against armoured buff for 2/3 charge levels. Charge level 1(uncharged) it deals 6 damage +4armored. Charge level 2 deals 6 damage +4 armored. Note that before the patch, Voidray did 5 damage uncharged and charge level 2. | ||
|
uzas
Croatia52 Posts
On October 15 2010 17:31 Qikz wrote: The reasoning behind it, is Corrupters and Thors got ridiculously killed so fast in TvP and ZvP because especially ZvP, people had a ton of Stalkers already, then having an ability which almost one shot a corrupter wasn't exactly fair. Thors were never built in TvP for the exact same reason, you just could never use them against Templar, feedback owned them as you could never use the energy. Well then there is something wrong with feedback dont you think? And not the every single mana using unit. Right? In this logic what is the purpose of feedback then? Im not representing either race, im just saying that mana and cooldown abilities with the wide range of casting units cannot form a decent logic and game design. Shifting between that many options for balancing the game make the game even more unbalanced. And also some units against certain race could not be built for a reason, just like in broodwar, cause they suck against that race. So your statement 'you could never use them' is not valid reason for making this change. | ||
|
kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:07 sleepingdog wrote: yeah, because battlecruisers, phoenixes and banshees would be completely useless without their spells I said heavily dependent, not "completely useless without them". I also put in a special note about BCs, but it's obvious you're incapable of reading an entire post before you respond to it. (I now notice that Warp Prism is listed under the wrong thing, my bad) Phoenixes that couldn't lift up tanks or workers or queens would be garbage units. Graviton Beam makes them excellent harass and support units, it requires energy and therefore makes them hybrid casters and they are countered by Feedback. Banshees that couldn't ever cloak would be garbage units, slow-as-hell mutalisks with no splash damage. Their cloak ability is very strong and by design requires energy. Hence, hybrid caster and countered by Feedback. this whole caster, no-caster, hybrid-caster, machine-with-spell-discussion is a 100% waste of time, I'm not giving into this any more "Machine-with-spell"? Caster isn't a stylistic categorization, it's a functional designation. "Spell" in this game means "active ability that uses energy". Mechanically, it's identical to the fantasy game concepts of magic spells and mana, but unless you're mentally deficient you should be able to separate the game mechanics from the genre conventions. This discussion, which you seem to not completely understand, is salient because you asked what Feedback is supposed to counter. It's supposed to counter caster units. I pointed out the difference between Infestors and Ghosts with the "Hybrid Caster/Pure Caster" classification, as Ghosts can also function as normal infantry. But both are casters because Ghosts without cloak, EMP and Snipe are pretty fucking useless, hence these abilities consume energy, and Ghosts are considered casters for the sake of "what should Feedback counter". I also listed units that have activated abilities but aren't actually casters and therefore don't have mana bars, because people are wont to start garbage arguments like "why don't marauders have energy, they have stim!". These are units that are very strong and function perfectly well even without these active abilities. Stalkers without Blink aren't bad like Phoenixes without Graviton Beam are. and I have never played WoW for even a tiny little bit You used the term "caster" as if it implied magic user. Allow me to quote you: medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; so I suppose you are in favour of removing energy from medivacs too? because obviously the healing-beam is some sort of highly advanced technology and nothing "magical" at all Medivacs are casters because a large part of their function is casting the heal spell. They also act as dropships, hence they're not "pure casters" like HTs or Infestors. Every unit I listed under Pure Caster and Hybrid Caster are what Feedback is supposed to counter. 250mm cannon is such a marginal and little used ability that it doesn't qualify as something that requires energy, hence Feedback doesn't counter Thors anymore. | ||
|
tdt
United States3179 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:29 leser wrote: just played two games, roaches are insane. couldn't squeeze in more than two games and both were vs toss, so I can't say how roaches feel vs terran, but vs toss they definitely feel much too strong. staklers can't kite them properly anymore and they roll over zealots anyway, and I honestly feel this is a bit too much and that they missed the proper fix to zerg completely, roaches are broken atm. Roaches are too cheap now and make stalker/hellion worthless when you need them to harrass or defend base because you can't kite anymore. I like change tho, no more cannon walling for toss or blinking in and out of base w/o damage - Balance would be upping cost 75/50 or 125/25 tho. | ||
|
AzureD
United States320 Posts
Combo nerfs of Reaper and VR seem a bit too much. Although it will help team games no doubt. The standard of 3 Gate + Robo seems unchanged so it will become even more standard in 1v1. It takes an extra Baneling to kill a Depot now. People forget Depots have armor. | ||
|
Zihn
Denmark50 Posts
On October 15 2010 19:52 Qikz wrote: To be fair, it's speed with the upgrade was far too fast. not saying the void was perfect before, but considering that pros used them fully charged durin all engagements due to juggling and such and even then it could be countered, then ignoring the speed nerf alltogether removing 50% actual dps is just too huge they should have implemented an overcharge feature to force periodic decharging of the rays and worsen the dmg potential of precharging either way even prepatch it was mutch worse to have 2 medivac + 8 marauders or 6 (no cloak) banshees compared to 4 charged voids rays attacking your main while you are moved half way to the enemy base, and btw both terran options are less costly and more accesable within your default BO | ||
|
Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
I enjoy playing those team games, and it's kind of annoying i was forced to always go HT (a lot of new players don't bother unclumping the voids when attacking) and blink stalkers to counter them whenever there were protoss in the other team. Though i think a nerf was needed, i think this was a bit too harsh. | ||
|
LastActionHero
Germany29 Posts
| ||
|
Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
| ||
|
Zihn
Denmark50 Posts
fungual and vortex force decharge of voids most of the times i have tried to mass voids myself or had the unfortunate misfortune of getting a random partner that tried we lost.. i'm diamond in team so cant say how big a problem it is in lower leagues but it's allmost void and null in low~mid diamond | ||
| ||
