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On October 15 2010 20:26 Plexa wrote:
There's one thing people are missing about the VR change. Despite all the rushes, cheese and massing in team games, Void Rays were one of the only reasons Battlecruiser lategames were not seen. Charged VRs rip through them, or atleast they used to. Now I'm worried that BC lategames will become common and they will be near unstoppable, Protoss AA is just nonexistent.
Any changes that make late-game units viable in a matchup are a plus for the versatilty and spectator value of the game. Not to say that BC spam should trumph all of course, but I'd wager void rays still are very cost-effective against BC's, only now they are better while charging up and less all-conquering against units they are not supposed to be effective against when charged. BC's are still susceptible to feedback, blink-stalkers and carrier kiting, so protoss still have a plethora of cost-effective options to deal with BCs.
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I would like it to see battlecruisers and carriers more often.
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On October 15 2010 10:03 Lavitage wrote:
I never had trouble with reapers. Now since this patch makes them objectively suck.... every Terran is going to choose Hellions to harass early instead, yeah?
Roach with 4 range > hellions?
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Well, hellions cannot kite and damage roaches easily anymore, but they can still outrun them at will, hence hellion harass is still a strong option.
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LAUGHING OUT LOUD
I just woke up, saw the notes, and literally laughed out loud in front of my display. It was a phony laughter and it didn't last too long.
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I find it pretty amazing that some people still don't get why this additional reaper nerf was needed.
It's because of hatch first. Zerg needs that early econ advantage to be on an even footing with their opponents in the midgame. With proxy reapers possible, hatch first is essentially not possible, since you will lose 100% against proxy reaper strats.
Yes, it's great that you've been able to deal with proxy reapers with your great 13gas 13pool (or 14 14) opening which sacrifices a lot of economy and essentially narrows down your entire early game, just in order to be safe against one unit type, but that's not the point at all. It wasn't about the reapers being too strong, it was about them being there too early. And this is the perfect fix for that.
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I just realized... do you guys really want balance ?
User was warned for this post
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On October 15 2010 21:02 Nyx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 10:03 Lavitage wrote:
I never had trouble with reapers. Now since this patch makes them objectively suck.... every Terran is going to choose Hellions to harass early instead, yeah?
Roach with 4 range > hellions?
You make hellions to kill workers - not to kill roaches. Why the hell everyone says that hellion harass won't be efective? Now it will be just a little bit easier to defend vs. hellion harass and nothing more.
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On October 15 2010 21:14 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 21:02 Nyx wrote:On October 15 2010 10:03 Lavitage wrote:
I never had trouble with reapers. Now since this patch makes them objectively suck.... every Terran is going to choose Hellions to harass early instead, yeah?
Roach with 4 range > hellions? You make hellions to kill workers - not to kill roaches. Why the hell everyone says that hellion harass won't be efective? Now it will be just a little bit easier to defend vs. hellion harass and nothing more.
It will be a lot easier. If you place your roaches right Helions wouldn't be able to pass without absorbing lots of damage.
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On October 15 2010 21:09 ohlala wrote:
LAUGHING OUT LOUD
I just woke up, saw the notes, and literally laughed out loud in front of my display. It was a phony laughter and it didn't last too long.
You are aware that Blizzard announced these changes weeks ago? We now know that the situational report pretty much gives full details about the actual patch notes.
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lol YourMom! xD haha (Y)
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Had anyone tryed void rays vs mutalisk now?... I was playing last night, pretty sure i wanst going to see any voidray for quite some time, and this guy just start massing voids giving me a really hard time to stop with my mutas, since the small buff to "normal damage" (mutas would never face them charged), something similar for my queens (again you would never face them charged!) At the same time it still was killing my roaches fairly nice (no over killed like it used to tho).
They now feel like a nice air support, that can still do some harras. The only thing that got my worried are Ultras... havent tested yet (i think toss are f***ed up vs ultras now :p).
Did anyone tryed this? (or just come to "complain")
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On October 15 2010 21:16 Zakka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 21:14 Alpina wrote:On October 15 2010 21:02 Nyx wrote:On October 15 2010 10:03 Lavitage wrote:
I never had trouble with reapers. Now since this patch makes them objectively suck.... every Terran is going to choose Hellions to harass early instead, yeah?
Roach with 4 range > hellions? You make hellions to kill workers - not to kill roaches. Why the hell everyone says that hellion harass won't be efective? Now it will be just a little bit easier to defend vs. hellion harass and nothing more. It will be a lot easier. If you place your roaches right Helions wouldn't be able to pass without absorbing lots of damage.
roaches can now easily counter your base because hellions cant kite anymore
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That too, Didn't even think about that. Awesome.
Seems too me that almost everybody think the voidray nerf is unnecessary, except maybe a lot of >gold players on the blizzard forums. I am so surpised, really didn't see that coming. Every toss is just going to do the same boring 4gate or 3gate robo opening now...
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And for the terran who seem so worried about roaches buffs i got one word:
"Marauders"
It isnt imba that zerg get a chance to stop early hellion push of destroying half you drones... And they way to deal with that is with a unit that fail SO damn hard vs marauder (a unit that will be in 90% of terran builds anyways...). I belive terran players got to used to get the game easy... Roach buffs is mainly vs toss vs zerg, not terran <.<
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Yes, i am aware of that. Also i am not sure if zerg really needs to play fe bw style. I have seen them Zergs pulling off 1 base wins... its a different game yall know that? mayhaps not the "give terran medics, they are easier to kill" ppl.
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On October 15 2010 20:31 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 20:28 Piledriver wrote:
Next patch Blizzard is removing BC energy too. Yeah everything in Terran should be on cooldown! Doesn't make sense for us Humans to have energy anyway, oh I guess ghosts.... but lets put EMP on cooldown anyway!! yay!!
you obviously don't understand the whole underlying concept of casters and hybrid casters, kojinshugi made an excellent post about how units like battlecruisers and banshees rely heavily on their spells while the thor doesn't which completely justifies all these changes 
On October 15 2010 18:16 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 17:25 sleepingdog wrote:
the first argument is ridiculous - it doesn't matter what they are if it makes sense gameplay-wise; medivacs are flying mechanical ships and not casters either; Medivacs are casters. This isn't World of Warcraft, "caster" doesn't mean "magic". It means a unit that is intended to use offensive or defensive spells regularly. Pure Casters (no offensive ability apart from spells/energy): High Templar, Infestor, Overseer, Raven. Hybrid Casters (can deal damage or fill other roles, but heavily dependent on spells/energy) Ghost, Sentry, Medivac, Mothership, Battlecruiser, Queen, Phoenix, Banshee, Warp Prism. Non-casters with spellsMarine, Marauder, Thor, Viking, Siege Tank. Zealot, Stalker, Carrier. Any zerg unit with Burrow, Banelings, Overlords, Corruptors. Non-castersReaper, Hellion. Immortal, Colossus, Void Ray, Archon. Mutalisk, Brood Lord. Show nested quote +and as I said, if feedback isn't supposed to counter anything, then why is it in the game? besides feedbacking ghost the only real use is vs medivacs now Feedback is supposed to counter casters as listed above. It's idiotic for it to counter a Thor that hasn't even researched 250mm and has an energy bar for no reason whatsoever. Battlecruisers are borderline, but since Yamato is so strong it's inappropriate for it to be usable when the unit is made without the energy upgrade, hence it's not a cooldown ability. (Banelings don't count as pure casters even though they have no "attack" per se, because they are guaranteed to die upon doing anything other than moving).
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On October 15 2010 21:20 mati wrote:
lol YourMom! xD haha (Y)
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Had anyone tryed void rays vs mutalisk now?... I was playing last night, pretty sure i wanst going to see any voidray for quite some time, and this guy just start massing voids giving me a really hard time to stop with my mutas, since the small buff to "normal damage" (mutas would never face them charged), something similar for my queens (again you would never face them charged!) At the same time it still was killing my roaches fairly nice (no over killed like it used to tho).
They now feel like a nice air support, that can still do some harras. The only thing that got my worried are Ultras... havent tested yet (i think toss are f***ed up vs ultras now :p).
Did anyone tryed this? (or just come to "complain")
VR cost twice as much they sure better own mutas 1 on 1. Toss won't win unless it's midgame ball and won't win a major tourney again until more of their units have value. DTs, VRs, HTs, C, MS are wasteful now compared to Sentry/Stalker/Colossus.
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what do you guys think of 250mm cannon still having to be researched? is it fine for the cost? will anyone ever use it? i'm not quite sure about this.....
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On October 15 2010 21:36 tdt wrote:
VR cost twice as much they sure better own mutas 1 on 1. Toss won't win unless it's midgame ball and won't win a major tourney again until more of their units have value. DTs, VRs, HTs, C, MS are wasteful now compared to Sentry/Stalker/Colossus.
im not trying to justify the changes, or to convice people that blizzard made a good work... They just made A work, and for better or for worst thats all we can get. You can either choose to play the game or not... Trying to probe why is right or not, wont help much. Im trying to state how they feel now, and how the game works now with the changes. Because i want to keep playing.
I saw many complains about mutas being op (i dont think they are OP, but well...), specialy from toss, and now they have another unit that deal a little better against them (while all the other counter remains the same).
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I sometimes played with the idea to get the cannon just to shoot at my own buildings or on a mule that was about to die or something to get rid of the energy when facing templars... So really glad they changed this.
I will now upgrade this every time I will have thors because they snipe buildings very well and ultras/thor/immortal/collossus can pop out
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EPT
