Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 43

VoodooDog

Germany47 Posts

November 02 2010 23:12 GMT

#841

my 7roach build is 7seconds faster and i got one drone more.
my 7th roach is rdy @ 4:08 at 29/34 sup
i could even have 8roaches @ 4:08 i guess

here is it

+ Show Spoiler +

@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:47 M:80 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick
@0:47 M:55 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@0:49 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored
@0:51 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:59 M:105 G:0 L:1 S:11/10 BuildOverlord
@1:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:04 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:24 Spawned: Overlord+1
@1:25 M:205 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildSpawningPool
@1:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:32 M:54 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone
@1:39 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone
@1:46 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@1:47 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:49 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:53 M:56 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@1:56 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:02 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:02 M:80 G:0 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:03 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:03 M:39 G:0 L:0 S:15/18 BuildExtractor
@2:10 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:17 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:17 M:137 G:0 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:19 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:30 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@2:32 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:32 M:234 G:0 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone
@2:32 M:184 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 BuildQueen
@2:33 Spawned: Extractor+1
@2:34 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:34 M:54 G:0 L:0 S:18/18 MineGas
@2:34 M:54 G:0 L:0 S:18/18 MineGas
@2:34 M:54 G:0 L:0 S:18/18 MineGas
@2:36 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:36 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:36 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:47 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:47 M:165 G:22 L:1 S:18/18 BuildOverlord
@2:49 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:02 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:02 M:201 G:51 L:1 S:18/18 BuildOverlord
@3:12 Spawned: Overlord+1
@3:12 M:194 G:70 L:0 S:18/26 BuildRoachWarren
@3:17 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:22 Spawned: Queen+1
@3:27 Spawned: Overlord+1
@3:32 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:47 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:07 Spawned: Roach Warren+1
@4:07 Spawned: Larva+4
@4:07 M:517 G:174 L:7 S:17/34 BuildRoach
@4:07 M:442 G:149 L:6 S:19/34 BuildRoach
@4:07 M:367 G:124 L:5 S:21/34 BuildRoach
@4:07 M:292 G

9 L:4 S:23/34 BuildRoach
@4:07 M:217 G:74 L:3 S:25/34 BuildRoach
@4:07 M:142 G:49 L:2 S:27/34 BuildRoach
@4:08 M:76 G:26 L:1 S:29/34 BuildRoach
@4:22 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:34 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:35 Spawned: Roach+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 41
---Final Output---
At time: 4:35
Minerals: 233 Gas: 53 Supply: 31/34
Drones: 15
Overlords: 4
Queens: 1
Roaches: 7
Hatcheries: 1
Gas Extractors: 1
Spawning Pools: 1
Roach Warrens: 1
------------------
Tue Nov 02 23:43:35 CET 2010: 828061.1670909093

DoubleReed

United States4130 Posts

November 02 2010 23:13 GMT

#842

Remember in the OP there was no "taking drones on and off minerals" so it's not that surprising honestly.

dmillz

Canada270 Posts

November 02 2010 23:16 GMT

#843

Really good to hear there is a Terran and Protoss version under development! After seeing this Zerg one I immediately started looking at the code trying to determine how long it would take me to refactor the code for Terran and quickly realized I would much prefer the original developer to do it haha! I have never programmed with genetic algorithms and was not looking forward to the man-hours needed to reproduce a Terran version.

GHOSTCLAW

United States17042 Posts

November 02 2010 23:24 GMT

#844

Looks super cool.

no moral problems with stuff like this, as it's not like it can play the game for you. Macro, micro maps...all of that play into effect. If a tool like this can break the game and play for you, I don't want to play that game ^^

VoodooDog

Germany47 Posts

November 02 2010 23:36 GMT

#845

and here is the counterbuild the the 7roach all-in

+ Show Spoiler +

@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:29 M:27 G:0 L:1 S

/10 BuildExtractor
@0:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:59 Spawned: Extractor+1
@1:07 M:205 G:0 L:3 S:8/10 BuildSpawningPool
@1:16 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@1:16 M:0 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 MineGas
@1:18 Mining: +1 on gas
@1:28 M:51 G:7 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@1:31 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:31 M:14 G

L:2 S

/10 MineGas
@1:31 M:14 G

L:2 S

/10 MineGas
@1:33 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:33 Mining: +1 on gas
@1:33 Mining: +1 on gas
@1:45 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:46 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:54 M:101 G:52 L:3 S

/10 BuildOverlord
@2:09 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:12 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@2:12 M:79 G:86 L:3 S

/10 MineMineral
@2:12 M:79 G:86 L:3 S

/10 BuildZergling
@2:14 Mining: +1 on mineral
@2:14 Mining: +1 on mineral
@2:19 Spawned: Overlord+1
@2:19 M:67 G

1 L:2 S:10/18 BuildZergling
@2:27 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:34 M:101 G:101 L:2 S:11/18 Metabolic Boost
@2:36 Spawned: Zergling+2
@2:42 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:43 Spawned: Zergling+2
@2:43 M:51 G:8 L:3 S:11/18 BuildZergling
@2:43 M:1 G:8 L:2 S:12/18 MineGas
@2:45 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:53 M:51 G:21 L:2 S:12/18 BuildZergling
@2:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:03 M:50 G:35 L:2 S:13/18 BuildZergling
@3:07 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:13 M:50 G:49 L:2 S:14/18 BuildZergling
@3:17 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:27 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:28 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:28 M:74 G:70 L:2 S:15/18 BuildZergling
@3:37 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:43 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:43 M

8 G

1 L:2 S:16/18 BuildZergling
@3:44 M:53 G

2 L:1 S:17/18 BuildZergling
@3:52 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:52 M:43 G:104 L:0 S:18/18 BuildExtractor
@3:58 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:00 M:52 G:115 L:1 S:17/18 BuildZergling
@4:00 M:2 G:115 L:0 S:18/18 MineGas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:07 Spawned: Zergling+2
@4:08 Spawned: Zergling+2
@4:13 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:22 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:24 Evolved: Metabolic Boost
@4:24 Spawned: Zergling+2
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 39
---Final Output---
At time: 4:24
Minerals: 90 Gas: 161 Supply: 18/18
Drones: 8
Overlords: 2
Zerglings: 20
Hatcheries: 1
Gas Extractors: 2
Spawning Pools: 1
Metabolic Boost
------------------
Wed Nov 03 00:35:42 CET 2010: 673520.4416942149

:D

or a defensiv counter with fe
+ Show Spoiler +

/10 BuildDrone
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:51 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:05 M:204 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool
@1:52 M:303 G:0 L:3 S

/10 BuildHatchery
@2:01 M:53 G:0 L:3 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@2:10 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@2:16 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:18 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:19 M:104 G:0 L:3 S

/10 BuildSpineCrawler
@2:37 M:105 G:0 L:3 S:8/10 BuildSpineCrawler
@2:47 M:54 G:0 L:3 S:7/10 BuildZergling
@2:57 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildZergling
@3:02 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:07 M:53 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildZergling
@3:09 Spawned: Spine Crawler+1
@3:11 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:17 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:21 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:27 Spawned: Spine Crawler+1
@3:31 Spawned: Zergling+2
@3:32 Spawned: Hatchery+1
@3:32 Spawned: Larva+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 15
---Final Output---
At time: 3:32
Minerals: 127 Gas: 0 Supply: 10/12
Drones: 7
Overlords: 1
Zerglings: 6
Hatcheries: 2
Spawning Pools: 1
Spine Crawlers: 2
------------------
Wed Nov 03 00:45:12 CET 2010: 1098075.9447180494

barrykp

Ireland174 Posts

November 02 2010 23:50 GMT

#846

On November 03 2010 08:12 VoodooDog wrote:
my 7roach build is 7seconds faster and i got one drone more.
my 7th roach is rdy @ 4:08 at 29/34 sup
i could even have 8roaches @ 4:08 i guess

here is it

+ Show Spoiler +

/10 BuildDrone
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:47 M:80 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick
@0:47 M:55 G:0 L:2 S

This is 3 seconds slower than the one I posted, but it has a much better economy (Queen + 16 drones vs 12drones and no queen). From a cheese perspective the biggest difference is that in this version the first roach pops at 4:34 and in the one my PC came up with the first 3 roaches are out almost a minute earlier. I tried this in a ladder game and the early pressure made some difference, although it has to be said that because of the easily-scoutable roach warren on 11 supply one has to assume a clever opponent might respond better.

dmillz

Canada270 Posts

November 02 2010 23:51 GMT

#847

For those that don't know, if you lower the time limit from 120 minutes to something a lot more reasonable, it can run a LOT more games per second.

wristuzi

United Kingdom1168 Posts

November 03 2010 00:19 GMT

#848

What an amazing tool! Thank you so much for creating it, it's a great way of making/thinking about new builds. I've tried the 7RR with limited success on ladder, but that's just cos I wanted to see how it handled against humans after practicing vs AI. But yeah, now I've found you can get +1 speed lings out by the 6 minute mark, and now I'm seeing how fast you can get adrenal glands. IT'S WICKED.

Some kind of compilation of the interesting builds people have found should be added to the OP, if possible, just to spread the word about good builds.

Once again, thanks for making such an awesome programme, now go make Protoss and Terran ones so we can find out more crazy builds

SCbiff

110 Posts

November 03 2010 02:15 GMT

#849

To the people that are complaining about things like multiple pools: this is a genetic program. You can wiki it for more information, but basically, at each evolutionary step, it will choose random things to do. This can either improve or degrade the solution, and the point of the evolution is to let the "strong" survive - i.e. pick the ones that are better.

IOW, if you let it run long enough it will remove the extraneous buildings.

Of course, there can be constraints on the evolution (like never build more than 1 pool). However, you have to be careful. Putting constraints limits the solution space, which might remove non-intuitive solutions that are actually improvements. Who would have thought back-to-back OLs would have been good? What if we had put such a constraint in? 7RR wouldn't have been discovered. It can be a good thing, just be cautious and make sure that it will not limit your options.

Bumblebees

United States328 Posts

November 03 2010 02:57 GMT

#850

On November 03 2010 06:21 Lomilar wrote:
Doublereed, a history and way to look at old builds will be available in v0018.

As to a guide... Yes, we need one of those. A YouTube video would be great. Read this thread and you'll likely know way more than you want to, until somebody can get a video out. Husky?

I'll gladly make a video when 0018 is ready.

Malpractice

34 Posts

November 03 2010 02:59 GMT

#851

On November 03 2010 11:57 Bumblebees wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'll gladly make a video when 0018 is ready.

<3 <3

TheExodu5

Canada3 Posts

November 03 2010 03:23 GMT

#852

Are you planning on making the source available in any fashion?

I'm a Java developer, but only by profession. I would be very interested in seeing how you coded the app.

I would offer to help on the project, but I'm not sure if you're in need of any help or not. Sad to say, but my experience outside of work is severely limited and I'd love to get a chance to get some more varied experience.

edit: facepalm...I didn't notice the source tab in the project.

crw

Canada70 Posts

November 03 2010 04:53 GMT

#853

a nice feature to this program would be to take a 'snapshot' of a build order while it is still mutating.

sometimes, i see really cool builds which have really better economy and very little difference in timing (maybe +10 seconds) but they are always thrown out if i let the program run too much because they aren't "the fastest".

dmillz

Canada270 Posts

November 03 2010 05:41 GMT

#854

Kinda scary you can go for a 7 roach 4 ling push while setting up an expansion and still get muta's up in 7 minutes. I've been playing around a lot with different settings and customizing it greatly improves how quickly it comes up with better solutions. Can't wait for the Terran version.

On a side note I was interested in genetic programming 'cause of this and looked it up, pretty cool stuff. A lot more complicated then people would think.

Rankith

United States78 Posts

November 03 2010 06:26 GMT

#855

Genetic algorithims are probably the most fun I have ever had with AI programming back in the day. Programs like this are why haha. Great work OP. Also, is the source available or going to be?

Edit: nvm im dumb its a jar file so there is the code

Ishq

Norway16 Posts

November 03 2010 06:48 GMT

#856

On November 03 2010 08:51 dmillz wrote:
For those that don't know, if you lower the time limit from 120 minutes to something a lot more reasonable, it can run a LOT more games per second.

Thanks, this helped speed things up a lot!

johanngrunt

Hong Kong1555 Posts

November 03 2010 07:24 GMT

#857

You're featured on Maximum PC =)
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/skynet_watch_programmer_uses_genetic_algorithims_find_perfect_starcraft_ii_build_orders

Good Job

QwiXXeR

16 Posts

November 03 2010 08:34 GMT

#858

@4:35 Spawned: Roach+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 41
---Final Output---
At time: 4:35
Minerals: 233 Gas: 53 Supply: 31/34
Drones: 15
Overlords: 4
Queens: 1
Roaches: 7
Hatcheries: 1
Gas Extractors: 1
Spawning Pools: 1
Roach Warrens: 1
------------------
Tue Nov 02 23:43:35 CET 2010: 828061.1670909093

You mean your 7th Roach is STARTED at 4:08 ?

jinp6301

United States2 Posts

November 03 2010 16:04 GMT

#859

Hey, I was just curious to what GA you chose. (I'm a grad student using GAs/SVMs to catagorize dna methylation data so I'm pretty comfortable with GAs) I'm not that good with java (mostly python for me) but I wanted to know if you chose one of the new GAs with incest prevention and all that good stuff.

divadretrac

United Kingdom36 Posts

November 03 2010 18:35 GMT

#860

I get this error message..

[Java Virtual Machine Launcher]
Could not find the main class:
C:\Users\Dave\Desktop\evolutionchamber-version-0017.jar. Program will exit.

I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling JRE 6 update 22, and I just get the same message, what am I doing wrong and is anyone else getting this same error?

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