|
On November 03 2010 01:20 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 00:39 some_pro wrote:
The game is gonna change so much when toss and terran support is released :o This won't be nearly as useful for T and P, as they cannot cut units to get more workers out, and this program is not terribly useful for builds that transition into the lategame. Plus, it's gonna have one hell of a time with chrono boosting I think.
No, no, and no.
There are economy models almost ready for the next version that force it to find the best build with a good economy, and chrono boosting is quite trivial.
|
This program is really interesting.
If the OP is looking for suggestions then it might be useful to make it possible to specify that something has started but not necessarily finished. To give an example; I would like to get it to work on a build up to a point where I have zergling speed started. It just ends up lengthening every build to get the speed finished (or doing weird stuff to start researching it earlier).
That's just a small thing though; really the program is excellent.
|
amazing program, but i'm wondering how minerals can get to non-5-multiples when i dont use extractor trick?
something in the calculations is wrong i think, you need to make sure the multiples are of 5
or am i missing somthng?
amazing builder though, i'll definitely try some early pushes tonight with these builds ^_^
|
Wow great job! Although I can see it having many areas of improvement, it is a very good start. Not sure about legalities but you could sell this for $5 lol and perhaps get a good deal of money. But I would give it for free xD
(idea - if you do it online, you can have ads on the webpage to help support you)
May be I just think too seriously about money for my age.
|
Crw, that is the 'bursty minerals' enhancement, currently unfinished. It uses averages right now, as there are metrics available for minerals/second/drone.
Hi all, I'm still at the conference and lurking, will comb through stuff and work on getting v0018 out when I get home on Wednesday.
Keep on computing! And as always, props to the contributors. They are doing a lot of the work getting you guys new cool stuff.
|
I tried a 6hydras 2 infestor build for fun, and the very first instruction said something like time 0:00 50m 0g 6/10 build extractor. How is that possible?
|
On November 03 2010 00:43 Jaal wrote:
How long did you let this run for? Usually, if it runs long enough it will not use multiple buildings.
It was running for a good 1-2h on a 2.53GHz proc. with 8 processes (max allowed). I will try an overnight run to see if it manages to sort things out.
It would be quite easy in terms of coding however to simply place one of each unit building for zerg unless getting multiple upgrades.
Oh, another suggestion is to be able to save your build runs to be refined and or loaded at a different time.
Good stuff
|
|
|
On November 03 2010 03:33 Shade692003 wrote:
I tried a 6hydras 2 infestor build for fun, and the very first instruction said something like time 0:00 50m 0g 6/10 build extractor. How is that possible?
Cause if you were a computer... and you'd be 100% accurate on each of your moves and you'd put everything where it should go ON THE SECOND, you'd get just enough gaz for all your stuff right in time.
Now I'm not saying its the right way to do things... but if you really want to get the hydra and 2 infestors ASAP (no transition) than... it must be the fastest way to do it!
The program doesn't tell you it's the BEST way to get there, it tells you the FASTEST way to get there
|
On November 03 2010 03:52 Konsume wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 03:33 Shade692003 wrote:
I tried a 6hydras 2 infestor build for fun, and the very first instruction said something like time 0:00 50m 0g 6/10 build extractor. How is that possible? Cause if you were a computer... and you'd be 100% accurate on each of your moves and you'd put everything where it should go ON THE SECOND, you'd get just enough gaz for all your stuff right in time. Now I'm not saying its the right way to do things... but if you really want to get the hydra and 2 infestors ASAP (no transition) than... it must be the fastest way to do it! The program doesn't tell you it's the BEST way to get there, it tells you the FASTEST way to get there
I mean, how can you have 6 supply at 0:00 and at the same time build an extractor? That's impossible...
Edit: I'm retarded, you don't start with 4 drones in Starcraft 2, silly me.
Edit2: The program doesn't tell you it's the BEST way to get there, it tells you the FASTEST way to get there
Yeah, but what's really great is that you can order states at different deadlines if I understood correctly, like I want 6hydras and 2 infestors the fastest, while expanding and having x numbers of sunkern/zergling by time Y. It's really great!
|
I don't suppose there are any plans to create a terran/protoss version of this?
|
Dmillz, yes there are. Haven't yet.
I had some people create TL accounts just to talk to me, so I am putting some contact info on the OP and here.
For any non-code related feedback, please email fritley@gmail.com or (if you have a TL account) PM me.
|
On November 03 2010 04:36 dmillz wrote:
I don't suppose there are any plans to create a terran/protoss version of this?
There are already 2 people working on their own versions, at least.
Lomilar said he will be working on it next as well.
So... unless they merge efforts, there's at least 3 versions in the works or planned for terran and protoss.
|
I am interested in seeing the efforts of other people. I have a model in my head, but if someone else is already doing it, I think I speak for the team in saying we would be happy to merge efforts. Pm or contact me, please, you nebulous shadowy figures.
|
On November 03 2010 02:15 Bumblebees wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 01:20 Pwere wrote:On November 03 2010 00:39 some_pro wrote:
The game is gonna change so much when toss and terran support is released :o This won't be nearly as useful for T and P, as they cannot cut units to get more workers out, and this program is not terribly useful for builds that transition into the lategame. Plus, it's gonna have one hell of a time with chrono boosting I think. No, no, and no. There are economy models almost ready for the next version that force it to find the best build with a good economy, and chrono boosting is quite trivial. I'm happy to hear about the economy models, but it's not entirely related to what I meant.
I mean that, ideally, P and T should build workers non-stop until saturation, and since units are built one after the other, the early harass builds are much easier to figure out. After that, the game has too many variables to make most detailed builds useful (just like a build to get ultralisks is pretty much useless for Z).
About the chrono boost, I meant that it is the only macro-power that is a decision every single time. It's not like queens and mules, where you use it non-stop, unless otherwise specified. Thus, it will definitely slow down the process.
My impression is that there are better ways to figure out builds for P and T, and that their builds are surely pretty close to optimal already. People will likely find cool ways to use the chamber anyway, but not the way some people in this thread seem to expect.
|
On November 03 2010 03:38 DFarce wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 00:43 Jaal wrote:
How long did you let this run for? Usually, if it runs long enough it will not use multiple buildings. It was running for a good 1-2h on a 2.53GHz proc. with 8 processes (max allowed). I will try an overnight run to see if it manages to sort things out. It would be quite easy in terms of coding however to simply place one of each unit building for zerg unless getting multiple upgrades. Oh, another suggestion is to be able to save your build runs to be refined and or loaded at a different time. Good stuff
I think the frontpage of the exe file says that it saves all build orders that you try out. So if you type in the same specifications I think it automatically loads it. It worked for me.
And I found that the build orders get rid of the double-buildings rather quickly (at least for me). Did you set a deadline? Because that can make the optimization go much much faster.
This won't be nearly as useful for T and P, as they cannot cut units to get more workers out, and this program is not terribly useful for builds that transition into the lategame. Plus, it's gonna have one hell of a time with chrono boosting I think.
I don't understand this. It would not be difficult to add a button that says "constantly make workers."
BTW: a suggestion for Terran and Protoss builds: have a button that says "constantly make workers"
|
Someone should post a guide of how to use this properly..
Or it should be simplified. I just downloaded it, but am really confused 
|
Doublereed, a history and way to look at old builds will be available in v0018.
As to a guide... Yes, we need one of those. A YouTube video would be great. Read this thread and you'll likely know way more than you want to, until somebody can get a video out. Husky?
|
Just as a test I tried to see how long it would take my computer to come up with the same 7RR in the original post. After leaving it run for 3 hours on a setting with 8 processors (5443k games played) it has come up with a different build that gets to 7 roaches 8 seconds faster by shaving off enough drones that there is no longer need for a fourth overlord. Here is the build order:
10 SpawningPool
10 ExtractorTrick
11 Overlord
11 Extractor
11 RoachWarren
10 +1 Drone on gas
10 +1 Drone on gas
12 +1 Drone on gas
12 Overlord
12 Roach
14 Roach
16 +1 Drone on minerals
16 Roach
18 Roach
20 Roach
22 Roach
24 Roach
and the long version: + Show Spoiler +@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone @0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:05 M:204 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool @1:13 M:55 G:0 L:3 S /10 BuildDrone @1:24 M:75 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick @1:24 M:50 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone @1:26 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored @1:28 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:37 M:105 G:0 L:2 S:11/10 BuildOverlord @1:40 M:27 G:0 L:1 S:11/10 BuildExtractor @1:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:43 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:02 Spawned: Overlord+1 @2:02 M:156 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:10 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:10 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 M:163 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildRoachWarren @2:10 M:13 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:10 M:13 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:17 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:18 M:53 G L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:19 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:27 M:52 G:22 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:27 M:2 G:22 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:29 Mining: +1 on gas @2:33 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:35 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:44 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:46 M:103 G:57 L:2 S:12/18 BuildOverlord @2:48 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:03 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:05 Spawned: Roach Warren+1 @3:05 M:124 G 4 L:3 S:12/18 BuildRoach @3:10 M:80 G:78 L:2 S:14/18 BuildRoach @3:10 M:5 G:53 L:1 S:16/18 MineMineral @3:11 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:12 Mining: +1 on mineral @3:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:20 M:76 G:67 L:2 S:16/26 BuildRoach @3:31 M:79 G:58 L:1 S:18/26 BuildRoach @3:32 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:35 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:37 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:41 M:75 G:47 L:1 S:20/26 BuildRoach @3:47 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:50 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:52 M:78 G:37 L:1 S:22/26 BuildRoach @3:58 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:05 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:05 M 5 G:30 L:1 S:24/26 BuildRoach @4:08 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:19 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:32 Spawned: Roach+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 35 ---Final Output--- At time: 4:32 Minerals: 212 Gas: 43 Supply: 26/26 Drones: 12 Overlords: 3 Roaches: 7 Hatcheries: 1 Gas Extractors: 1 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 ------------------ Tue Nov 02 20:02:50 GMT 2010: 600678.1895951557
I'm not sure it's necessarily a better build, but it does seem to be faster (and the stuff done in the 10-11 supply range is even more counter-intuitive than the one in the OP). It's even more 'all in' than the original, if that is possible. If I had added a waypoint involving a queen I guess it would have eventually come up with the same build order as the OP.
|
On November 03 2010 06:29 barrykp wrote:Just as a test I tried to see how long it would take my computer to come up with the same 7RR in the original post. After leaving it run for 3 hours on a setting with 8 processors (5443k games played) it has come up with a different build that gets to 7 roaches 8 seconds faster by shaving off enough drones that there is no longer need for a fourth overlord. Here is the build order: 10 SpawningPool 10 ExtractorTrick 11 Overlord 11 Extractor 11 RoachWarren 10 +1 Drone on gas 10 +1 Drone on gas 12 +1 Drone on gas 12 Overlord 12 Roach 14 Roach 16 +1 Drone on minerals 16 Roach 18 Roach 20 Roach 22 Roach 24 Roach and the long version: + Show Spoiler +@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone @0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:05 M:204 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool @1:13 M:55 G:0 L:3 S /10 BuildDrone @1:24 M:75 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick @1:24 M:50 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone @1:26 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored @1:28 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:37 M:105 G:0 L:2 S:11/10 BuildOverlord @1:40 M:27 G:0 L:1 S:11/10 BuildExtractor @1:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:43 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:02 Spawned: Overlord+1 @2:02 M:156 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:10 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:10 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 M:163 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildRoachWarren @2:10 M:13 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:10 M:13 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:17 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:18 M:53 G L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:19 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:27 M:52 G:22 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:27 M:2 G:22 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:29 Mining: +1 on gas @2:33 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:35 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:44 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:46 M:103 G:57 L:2 S:12/18 BuildOverlord @2:48 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:03 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:05 Spawned: Roach Warren+1 @3:05 M:124 G 4 L:3 S:12/18 BuildRoach @3:10 M:80 G:78 L:2 S:14/18 BuildRoach @3:10 M:5 G:53 L:1 S:16/18 MineMineral @3:11 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:12 Mining: +1 on mineral @3:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:20 M:76 G:67 L:2 S:16/26 BuildRoach @3:31 M:79 G:58 L:1 S:18/26 BuildRoach @3:32 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:35 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:37 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:41 M:75 G:47 L:1 S:20/26 BuildRoach @3:47 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:50 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:52 M:78 G:37 L:1 S:22/26 BuildRoach @3:58 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:05 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:05 M 5 G:30 L:1 S:24/26 BuildRoach @4:08 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:19 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:32 Spawned: Roach+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 35 ---Final Output--- At time: 4:32 Minerals: 212 Gas: 43 Supply: 26/26 Drones: 12 Overlords: 3 Roaches: 7 Hatcheries: 1 Gas Extractors: 1 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 ------------------ Tue Nov 02 20:02:50 GMT 2010: 600678.1895951557 I'm not sure it's necessarily a better build, but it does seem to be faster (and the stuff done in the 10-11 supply range is even more counter-intuitive than the one in the OP). It's even more 'all in' than the original, if that is possible. If I had added a waypoint involving a queen I guess it would have eventually come up with the same build order as the OP.
wow this is intense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
