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MorroW playing Zerg? - Page 16

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cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
September 29 2010 04:55 GMT
#301
I'm sure he could become one of the best Zergs in Europe with enough practice, but where would that get him? The same place it gets all the other top European Zergs: nowhere.

It's one thing to stick with Zerg after Blizzard nerfs them into the ground but switching TO Zerg as a pro-gamer is career suicide.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 29 2010 04:58 GMT
#302
On September 29 2010 12:49 cArn- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote:
On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:
On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:
On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i


I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here.

I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2.

The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap.

I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it.


GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation.


We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc.


Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready.


That's an odd thing to say.

If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out.

The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all.



You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules.


The only reason would be saving for a scan, which doesn't address dropping 4-5 mules at once. Getting a new expo running asap or recovering from worker losses are completely irrelevant. If by "getting a new expo running," you mean "have mules mine at the new expo so your old expos don't mine out as fast," it'd be very situational and in no situation should you actually save over 50 energy to do so.

Please think before trying to correct someone.
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
September 29 2010 04:59 GMT
#303
On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 06:24 blade55555 wrote:
His zerg's pretty imba .

But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo.

If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance.

Who wouldn't become good ? The point here is how long will it take for morrow to win any tournament with cash prize as Z ? I bet you money any good Z switching to T would win a tournament way before him.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
Dental Floss
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1015 Posts
September 29 2010 04:59 GMT
#304
On September 29 2010 13:54 ilbh wrote:

you can't judge game balancing or anything at lower levels, there is no parameter, everyone commit a lot of mistakes and everything else.

that is my point, its so obvious. did I really need to explain?



In warcraft 2 the only real difference between the Orcs and Humans were that humans didn't get bloodlust and human upgrades cost like twice as much gold. I wasn't good at that game, and yet I somehow know that the game is imbalaced toward orc.

How is it possible that I know this?
Kim Tae Gyun.... never forget Perfectman RIP
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3889 Posts
September 29 2010 05:03 GMT
#305
On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:
On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:
On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i


I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here.

I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2.

The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap.

I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it.


GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation.


We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc.


Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready.


That's an odd thing to say.

If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out.

The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all.



I got to disagree with you, your not "Saving" mules.. your saving energy

One MAJOR reason to save energy is because you might need detection or intel

.. If they have banshees out, you save mules.. as soon as the banshee(s) are taken care of and your in the clear, you drop 2-3 mules.. I've seen this in plenty of pro matches..

I saw one pro's base getting harassed, and then after he took care of harassment he dropped the mules.. I geuss people are wary of losing their mules to harassment.. would make sense..

if your in an intense battle at your front, and your losing exposed depots, you might want to save energy for a emergency supply drop to get out of red so you can get that unit out to save yourself..

might want to drop mules on their tank line?

If they deny your scouting viking with stalkers, you might need to scan, if you get in there with the scout, drop the vikings.

Protoss might be saving energy to see if they need to rush out units.. as soon as your in the clear, chrono boost the nexus.


Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
September 29 2010 05:05 GMT
#306
I'll be interested how he is doing in a month if he continues. First few days are always the hardest when switching races. I like his reason for dabbing in zerg though.
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
September 29 2010 05:07 GMT
#307
This is very interesting.. but he is throwing a way a TON of studying just to try something new. It will be hard to see him as a zerg.
graphene
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland211 Posts
September 29 2010 05:17 GMT
#308
im sick and tired of tl noobs, whining about morrow having no skill. I am at 1400+ Z in euro server, yes my terran enemies are horrible but they are nothing compared to morrow. We are talking about a talented HIGH IQ gamer, rather than those 60 APM fuckers who all in every game that get matched against me.
cloud computing is the future
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
September 29 2010 05:17 GMT
#309
This is what happens when a top ranked player tries to off race in this broken system. 15 straight losses means absolutely nothing. Of course he's gonna lose if he's playing other top players main races. I believe Morrow would get similar stats with P aswell if he did more than 5 games. You will consistently lose until you can get solid fundamentals and a decent grasp of the entire game in every matchup. Just watching HuK doesn't make any T or Z player able to beat top ladder players with protoss.
Eleclight
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland70 Posts
September 29 2010 05:30 GMT
#310
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.
phungus420
Profile Joined October 2008
United States179 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-29 05:41:48
September 29 2010 05:34 GMT
#311
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.

It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture.

And yes, MorroW deserves credit for at least trying this. I don't understand doing so on his main account, since he is a high level player who's performance is closely followed and a massive loosing streak on the ladder could harm his invitational tourney prospects. But best of luck to him while playing Z. While I strongly agree Z is the weakest race, and hope Blizz fixes this to make top level tourneys more interesting, it would be cooler to actually see MorroW succede and become equivalently succesfull with Z as he is with T. I don't mind being wrong here, and as I said before I'd love to see IdrA eat his previous words.
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
September 29 2010 05:39 GMT
#312
On September 29 2010 14:34 phungus420 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.

It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture.


currently the face that morrow goes on a losing streak when switching to zerg.

and that zeg players who switch to toss or terran. all that means is that the learning curve for zerg compared to toss and terran is huge.

it speaks nothing for balance.

simply put. its easier to play terran and toss, harder to play zerg. which im pretty sure everyone can already agree on.
Forever ZeNEX.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
September 29 2010 05:41 GMT
#313
On September 29 2010 14:34 phungus420 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.

It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture.


If a zerg was 2200 rating and tried to off race then yes he would most likely get the exact same losing streak. Because there is no chance of him taking games off of top players before he learns the race properly. Don't apply gold level logic to the very top of the ladder.
hdkhang
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia183 Posts
September 29 2010 05:45 GMT
#314
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.


Agreed.

People on these forums need to turn the hate dials down a notch. MorroW is one of the good guys. He is entitled to his opinions as well as his confidence in his abilities. Even if you don't agree with what he says, there is no need for trash.
phungus420
Profile Joined October 2008
United States179 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-29 05:51:15
September 29 2010 05:48 GMT
#315
On September 29 2010 14:41 StarBrift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 14:34 phungus420 wrote:
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point.

It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture.


If a zerg was 2200 rating and tried to off race then yes he would most likely get the exact same losing streak. Because there is no chance of him taking games off of top players before he learns the race properly. Don't apply gold level logic to the very top of the ladder.

You sure about that? I think I've read on these forums that Dimaga had no issues when switching to T, and in fact started to outperform his Main race Z. Could be wrong though, but just from watching the GSL and other tournaments it simply seems like common sense to me that Z has problems. And no, I'm not a zerg player that's QQing, just stating my perception based on observing high level touney play. And like I've said before I'd like to see MorroW do well playing Z, I just don't expect it to happen. I mean he is a top level player, so he is going to be a good player when using Zerg, but I don't think he will come close to his current strength with T, ie I bet he will never take down a high $ tourney playing Z, no matter how much practice he puts into it; while on the flipside I'm fairly confident Idra or Dimaga could pull off better performances if they switched to T (something I wish Idra would just do, as his whining about Zs UPness is annoying, and he's an S-class pro playing for $$$, if he really feels T is stronger and would increase his earnings, he should do it already instead of complaining).
Ryalnos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1946 Posts
September 29 2010 05:58 GMT
#316
It's easier to jump into Terran/Protoss and just wing builds and get wins (MMM, 4gate are easy as hell to pull off).

You can't really wing builds very well as zerg - there's no easy win build. It takes a while to get used to zerg with things like balancing army + drones and learning timings + counters for some of the more dangerous T/P openings.

MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-29 06:07:28
September 29 2010 06:03 GMT
#317
On September 29 2010 11:13 pieisamazing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 11:10 acceLL wrote:
On September 29 2010 11:01 pieisamazing wrote:
On September 29 2010 11:00 acceLL wrote:
On September 29 2010 10:59 Shikyo wrote:
On September 29 2010 10:55 pieisamazing wrote:
On September 29 2010 06:21 UisTehSux wrote:
Cool. I'm interested to see if, and hope that Morrow will turn out to be a sweet zerg player.

He won't. Once Terran gets nerfed he'll fall off the radar.

You're joking, Morrow's a great player who has good gamesense and can play almost any playstyle(opposite of Idra)



Don't bother, these people will never lose this stupid bias they have.

It's ironic that you hold this view yourself.



How so? I play protoss in SC2.

I play random, so I don't see the bias I supposedly have that you clearly judged because of my icon. morrow wasn't some super great foreigner in brood war. He was above-average, sure, but wasn't in the league of any of the actual big name players.

stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/
i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race

i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
September 29 2010 06:07 GMT
#318
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 11:13 pieisamazing wrote:
On September 29 2010 11:10 acceLL wrote:
On September 29 2010 11:01 pieisamazing wrote:
On September 29 2010 11:00 acceLL wrote:
On September 29 2010 10:59 Shikyo wrote:
On September 29 2010 10:55 pieisamazing wrote:
On September 29 2010 06:21 UisTehSux wrote:
Cool. I'm interested to see if, and hope that Morrow will turn out to be a sweet zerg player.

He won't. Once Terran gets nerfed he'll fall off the radar.

You're joking, Morrow's a great player who has good gamesense and can play almost any playstyle(opposite of Idra)



Don't bother, these people will never lose this stupid bias they have.

It's ironic that you hold this view yourself.



How so? I play protoss in SC2.

I play random, so I don't see the bias I supposedly have that you clearly judged because of my icon. morrow wasn't some super great foreigner in brood war. He was above-average, sure, but wasn't in the league of any of the actual big name players.

stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/
i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race


good luck morrow with zerg. as much as i am on the zerg QQ train.

i actually hope you get good with them.

Forever ZeNEX.
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
September 29 2010 06:09 GMT
#319
For what it's worth, I respect you giving Z a try MorroW. Having played the race for a few days with a high-level mindset, can you see why many of us complain now and then (haha) about some of the characteristics of the race? Reactive play? Lack of viable aggression early? Semi-boring/cookie-cutter strategies every game?

GL with whatever race you choose to play. :>
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Mystix
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada78 Posts
September 29 2010 06:14 GMT
#320
I'm rooting for you MorroW! Politics aside, a player working hard to improve his game is always a positive thing :D:D
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