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On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc.
Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready.
And btw :
On September 29 2010 12:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:
Met him in laddergame today and was awfully suprised that he was playing Zerg till my friend told me "everyone knows already kiwi, your fucking late on this one" :D
Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z.
Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked.
I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid.
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On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready.
That's an odd thing to say.
If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out.
The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all.
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On September 29 2010 12:36 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:14 Shikyo wrote:On September 29 2010 12:13 cuppatea wrote:On September 29 2010 11:54 shynee wrote:On September 29 2010 11:23 Antoine wrote:On September 29 2010 11:10 cuppatea wrote:On September 29 2010 06:35 motbob wrote:![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JpsK9.png) By contrast, here's what happened when ZeeRaX switched to Terran (from Protoss): what was zeerax doing in between the updates? my guess is practicing in customs. Look at that picture again. The graph shows that he dropped because of using a new race and regained his position shortly after... at the same ranking as when he was playing protoss. I've done the same thing by switching from terran to protoss. Get it now? Actually, if you check his game history, his rank fell because he stopped laddering entirely. Once he started again, this time with Terran, he immediately started climbing the ladder quite rapidly. There was never a period of "oh shit, I'm trying to learn a new race and keep losing!" You drop 300 points for not playing for a few weeks? He never dropped any points, he dropped ranking.
oh hai we're in the same 2v2 ladder!
Anyway, good luck to MorroW, I'd like to see him play Zerg for a while, would be funny if he actually manage to become a good Z player. There's so much hate in this thread, isn't the ladder for practicing? I'm sure most of you haters wouldn't even be able to win one game with your main race up at that level where he's playing. Just sayin'..
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Showmatch!
Idra's Terran vs Morrow's Zerg 
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Perhaps Morrow is on an epic quest for the golden zerg strategy that Blizzard prophesied will deliver all zerg from their days of darkness. I can just imagine his suffering through endless torturous ZvT losses. And in the final hour, with light beaming down and angelic singing in the background, when Morrow finally seizes upon the golden zerg strategy and posts it triumphantly on the forums for all to see...
Blizzard will hotfix nerf the fucking thing into the fucking ground.
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On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all.
You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules.
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On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. And btw : Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:
Met him in laddergame today and was awfully suprised that he was playing Zerg till my friend told me "everyone knows already kiwi, your fucking late on this one" :D
Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z.
Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked. I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid.
he is talking about 1800+. your case don't count since you are not at their level.
and the only reason I can see someone saving mule is for scans.
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On September 29 2010 12:49 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote:On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all. You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules.
Expansion I can kind of understand, if you are going to a gold. Otherwise it's a waste since they don't do anything to saturation.
You can't plan ahead for worker losses (I'll not mule here, here, and here, for when they attack my mineral line), and you always need more minerals, gas heavy or not.
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On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote:
That's an odd thing to say.
If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out.
The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all.
Sometimes you really need Scan too. Having no energy from constant mules means that Terran will take a lot of damage from a sudden cloaked unit attack. Not to mention that just keeping tabs on your opponent's army at certain times can be key.
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On September 29 2010 13:00 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. And btw : On September 29 2010 12:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:
Met him in laddergame today and was awfully suprised that he was playing Zerg till my friend told me "everyone knows already kiwi, your fucking late on this one" :D
Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z.
Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked. I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid. he is talking about 1800+. your case don't count since you are not at their level. and the only reason I can see someone saving mule is for scans.
I don't see how that is relevant at all, if the switch is harder at a pro level, it would be even harder at lower level. I don't get what you're getting at beside trying to put this evidence out of the window with some poor rating argument due to the lack of good reasons to make a solid point. Also I might not be 1800, I'm not 1000 either.
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On September 29 2010 12:43 Grond wrote:Showmatch! Idra's Terran vs Morrow's Zerg
We need this! We need idra to not practice at all also!
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On September 29 2010 13:11 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:43 Grond wrote:Showmatch! Idra's Terran vs Morrow's Zerg We need this! We need idra to not practice at all also!
Hasn't idra played more games as terran in BW than as zerg in SC2? Not that big a difference.
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On September 29 2010 09:39 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 06:19 darmousseh wrote:
lol
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
loss
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loss
I'm not sure how good he is at zerg yet. thats what happens u switch races... dont be ignorant.
Not when you switch from zerg to terran by all accounts... dont be ignorant.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:24 blade55555 wrote:His zerg's pretty imba  . But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo.
If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance.
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Look at the build order in the last game in the list - he got eight pooled and left the game in the first two minutes! That must be annoying.
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On September 29 2010 12:04 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 12:02 epik640x wrote:
The difference is that when Zerg players switch to Terran for a change they go on win streaks. I'm guessing that the difference there as well is that the Z -> T player plays to just win the games, most of the time via some abusive strat.
Riiight, no pro terran focuses on "abusive strats" at all, especially in tournament situations.
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On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 06:24 blade55555 wrote:His zerg's pretty imba . But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo. If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance.
Okay, define "good". I doubt he could even get as good as Dimaga, who has struggled to win any tournament...ever. Recently.
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On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 06:24 blade55555 wrote:His zerg's pretty imba . But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo. If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance.
MorroW is a strong player. I'm sure he can learn how to play zerg well, but zerg is simply a weaker race, and I don't believe he will ever be able to win tournaments with zerg, like he does with Terran. I'd like to be proven wrong though; would be awesome just to see Idra's reaction.
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On September 29 2010 13:10 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 13:00 ilbh wrote:On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote:On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote:On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote:
its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. And btw : On September 29 2010 12:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:
Met him in laddergame today and was awfully suprised that he was playing Zerg till my friend told me "everyone knows already kiwi, your fucking late on this one" :D
Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z.
Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked. I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid. he is talking about 1800+. your case don't count since you are not at their level. and the only reason I can see someone saving mule is for scans. I don't see how that is relevant at all, if the switch is harder at a pro level, it would be even harder at lower level. I don't get what you're getting at beside trying to put this evidence out of the window with some poor rating argument due to the lack of good reasons to make a solid point. Also I might not be 1800, I'm not 1000 either.
you can't judge game balancing or anything at lower levels, there is no parameter, everyone commit a lot of mistakes and everything else.
that is my point, its so obvious. did I really need to explain?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5674/zeerax.png)
. If he goes Zerg fulltime, I'd definitely be a fan 
