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On September 28 2010 20:44 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:34 kasumimi wrote:
Please look at the fight at 5:08 and tell me this is the same splash that ultras had in 1.1. At 5:22, there is an interesting point where an Ultra hits a Thor once and the splash only seems to hit 1 thor next to it, but 1 hit isn't enough to move most of those units HP bars.
I'd be interested in seeing more pre-1.1 Ultra splash on Thors and other large units (Ultra v Ultra and Ultra v Colossus is fine).Edit: Nevermind, an Ultra attack at 5:18 on a siege tank splashes a Thor 2 units behind it. Definitely still extended by unit radius.
It's so hard to tell what's going on really with just the crappy HP bars, you sort of need to look at the replay.
On September 28 2010 20:53 TyrantPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:49 Liquid`Ret wrote:
this is really ridiculous. nothing counters thors anymore ret mate. your so wrong. the counter to thors is more thors. so all zerg has to do.........oh...wait.
Mass neural parasite clearly.
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TvZ - Just spam thors and hellions
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blizzard are working on buffing zerg, but that doesn't mean that in the meantime they can't fix the overpowered ultra splash.
the zerg race needs changes accross the board. easier scouting, mobile/smaller hydras, more practical ultralisks. zerg do not need a 50 mile splash range on ultralisks.
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On September 28 2010 20:53 TyrantPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:49 Liquid`Ret wrote:
this is really ridiculous. nothing counters thors anymore ret mate. your so wrong. the counter to thors is more thors. so all zerg has to do.........oh...wait.
im not even pissed anymore, Its just amusing by now ^^ Oh well, dling Mafia 2 atm, anyone got some tips on other good laid back Single Player games?
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It was more like this:
Patch 1.1: Blizz removes ram from ultralisks and they will use their regular attack on buildings.
Community: Wow, this attack is OP when attacking buildings.
Patch 1.1.1: Blizz nerfs the attack both against buildings and against units.
This results in a ultralisk nerf against units.
C'mon. it was a bug (I play Z and I think it was just laughable how SCVs would just explode into oblivion while trying to repair a Command Center). Removing the bug wasn't a "nerf", but it turned into exactly how the text in the quote states.
For the first time I'm actually thinking of starting to play random...
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OMG , this has to be the worse patch fix ever.
It was obvious the splash on buildings was obsurd , but this overall patch makes Ultras even worse than they were before ... it'd be better if Blizzard didn't even touch the Ram ability in the first place.
One could only imagine the look on Cool's face when he saw the Patch.
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On September 28 2010 20:51 Raiznhell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:48 clusen wrote:
This is so stupid, but fits perfectly to the patchhistory since beta, when MM-upgrades were buffed for no reason at all.
I guess next will be Broodlords, they just move too fast right now and you can't counter them with Thor and Marines. dude u gotta remember Terran was SOOOO weak early on in the beta. the constant buffs to get them up to date with protoss and zerg was just slightly overdone calm yourself bro. the game is so young.
It was more of a matter than terran didn't know how to play. A lot of the strongest strategies involve only units that didn't get massive buffs. MMM PvT. Reaper, thor, banshee. Meanwhile a lot of sc1 players chose zerg and it was developed very quickly along with being a more simple race in general.
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On September 28 2010 20:57 Crit wrote:
C'mon. it was a bug (I play Z and I think it was just laughable how SCVs would just explode into oblivion while trying to repair a Command Center). Removing the bug wasn't a "nerf", but it turned into exactly how the text in the quote states.
For the first time I'm actually thinking of starting to play random...
Honestly, it shouldn't be viewed as a "bug". It's just applying the standard Ultra attack to buildings. The fact the splash increases by unit size has been there since beta... so if they wanted to apply the regular Ultra attack to buildings, that should have been the first thing the designers thought of. 
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1.0 ultralisk attacks splash around targetted unit
1.1 ultralisk attack damage lowered based on figures in 1.0
1.1.1 ultralisk attacks splash from ultralisk now instead
1.2 ultralisk attack damage increased because Blizzard were unaware about the splash damage around targetted unit in 1.0
Ok it does makes sense for the splash damage to originate from the ultralisk but for Zerg to end up with a nerf of this calliber is really depressing. Damage nerf + splash damage nerf. I really hope they up the radius and/or damage again soon.
I have question though about the splash damage:
Does the splash damage from the ultra originate from a point in front of the ultra (A) or is it ultralisk size/surface +2 range for 180 degrees (B).
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ihkK8.png)
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On September 28 2010 20:42 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:38 Raiznhell wrote:
k for anyone discussing mass thors... the best way to counter if he's got pretty much only thors is mass zerglings and if he has hellions with then mass roaches and hydras as yeah they get 2 shotted each but the roach hydra damage output is significant enough to destroy the thors.
the ultralisk is the counter for sieged tanks more than anything else because of how weak siege tanks are against ultras in sc2 (50 damage now, in BW they did 75 damage 90 when fully upgraded against massive units plus they were 2 supply and cheaper so there was alot more tanks deployed)
in sc2 ultras soak up the siege fire plus just demolish them and this nerf very slighty affects splash on medium sized units. ultralisks while an armored counter are not ment against thors mostly against tanks.
honestly they should just put the ram back in becasue the ultralisk was awesome as it was if anything it needed it's 5 damage nerf. Mass thors and hellions with blue flame absolutely crush roaches and zerglings. Ultralisk is the only counter. And hydras are fucking terrible.
hydras are not terribel and roaches en mass are excellent vs mech in general let alone just thors.
with the nerf to siege tanks hydras get 3 shotted by tanks now instead of 2 shotted which means they ahve gained alot of use now against mech simply because they have just as much survivability as roaches against siege fire. and hydras range and DPS is far from horrible. hardly anyones been taking advantage of the fact that hydras are now as durable as roaches against siege tanks. and hellions arent good against roaches really at all if you have hydras in close proximity to them so the hydras kill the hellions anytime they try to do any sort of kiting and it takes forever to kill a single roach with a bunch of hellions. ultralisks are not the prime counter to thors as while thors are armored they do insane dps to single targets and ultras generall dont come in huge numbers. massed roaches however is difficult for the thors to kill all of and if you throw in the hydras dps behind the roaches you waste thors np given the situation goes right after all micro and macro are important in all scenarios.
the thor is the mech unit of choice against the ultralisk otherwise the only prime units would be marauders which are barracks units and barracks units arent deployed when going mech or air units....
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Hilarious how much fail Blizzard is. When Blizzard nerfed Zerg in the beta, they did it by making drastic changes, that mostly led to the unit or the ability being useless.
For example NP nerf was a joke that led to no one ever using it again. The roach nerf to 2 to 1. The removal of a useful ability of the corruptor (the earlier spell was actually useful).
I was gonna post about how I was worried that if Blizzard tried to fix the Ultra vs PF bug, they would do it by render Ultras useless again. And today the patch came, and Blizzard actually managed to destroy the only viable unit Zerg has for armored units. THis is a disgrace Blizzard.
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On September 28 2010 21:00 Raiznhell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:42 Bosu wrote:On September 28 2010 20:38 Raiznhell wrote:
k for anyone discussing mass thors... the best way to counter if he's got pretty much only thors is mass zerglings and if he has hellions with then mass roaches and hydras as yeah they get 2 shotted each but the roach hydra damage output is significant enough to destroy the thors.
the ultralisk is the counter for sieged tanks more than anything else because of how weak siege tanks are against ultras in sc2 (50 damage now, in BW they did 75 damage 90 when fully upgraded against massive units plus they were 2 supply and cheaper so there was alot more tanks deployed)
in sc2 ultras soak up the siege fire plus just demolish them and this nerf very slighty affects splash on medium sized units. ultralisks while an armored counter are not ment against thors mostly against tanks.
honestly they should just put the ram back in becasue the ultralisk was awesome as it was if anything it needed it's 5 damage nerf. Mass thors and hellions with blue flame absolutely crush roaches and zerglings. Ultralisk is the only counter. And hydras are fucking terrible. hydras are not terribel and roaches en mass are excellent vs mech in general let alone just thors. with the nerf to siege tanks hydras get 3 shotted by tanks now instead of 2 shotted which means they ahve gained alot of use now against mech simply because they have just as much survivability as roaches against siege fire. and hydras range and DPS is far from horrible. hardly anyones been taking advantage of the fact that hydras are now as durable as roaches against siege tanks. and hellions arent good against roaches really at all if you have hydras in close proximity to them so the hydras kill the hellions anytime they try to do any sort of kiting and it takes forever to kill a single roach with a bunch of hellions. ultralisks are not the prime counter to thors as while thors are armored they do insane dps to single targets and ultras generall dont come in huge numbers. massed roaches however is difficult for the thors to kill all of and if you throw in the hydras dps behind the roaches you waste thors np given the situation goes right after all micro and macro are important in all scenarios. the thor is the mech unit of choice against the ultralisk otherwise the only prime units would be marauders which are barracks units and barracks units arent deployed when going mech or air units....
No. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. If ultras are not good vs thors then there is no counter to thors supported by hellions against zerglings and just a small amount of tanks against roach/hydra.
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On September 28 2010 21:00 Croz wrote:I have question though about the splash damage: Does the splash damage from the ultra originate from a point in front of the ultra (A) or is it ultralisk size/surface +2 range for 180 degrees (B).
Edit: I misunderstood your question. You are referring to the 1.1.1 splash damage. I believe that now the splash is Figure A, in line with all other splashing units.
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There is no way blizz can call this a bug fix. I can't believe my eyes.
Nevertheless a huge roach buff, since they are the best Thor counter now
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On September 28 2010 20:53 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:53 TyrantPotato wrote:On September 28 2010 20:49 Liquid`Ret wrote:
this is really ridiculous. nothing counters thors anymore ret mate. your so wrong. the counter to thors is more thors. so all zerg has to do.........oh...wait. Mass neural parasite clearly.
What's neural parasite? Oh, that third infestor spell?
LOL
On September 28 2010 20:56 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:53 TyrantPotato wrote:On September 28 2010 20:49 Liquid`Ret wrote:
this is really ridiculous. nothing counters thors anymore ret mate. your so wrong. the counter to thors is more thors. so all zerg has to do.........oh...wait. im not even pissed anymore, Its just amusing by now ^^ Oh well, dling Mafia 2 atm, anyone got some tips on other good laid back Single Player games?
Yeah, same here, I kinda hope Blizz'll wise up soon though, it stops getting funny after a while.
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If this is true, then blizzard is too retarded. A NERF to zerg is possibly the dumbest thing they could possibly do at this point. Poor fruitseller =[
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On September 28 2010 21:00 Croz wrote:1.0 ultralisk attacks splash around targetted unit 1.1 ultralisk attack damage lowered based on figures in 1.0 1.1.1 ultralisk attacks splash from ultralisk now instead 1.2 ultralisk attack damage increased because Blizzard were unaware about the splash damage around targetted unit in 1.0Ok it does makes sense for the splash damage to originate from the ultralisk but for Zerg to end up with a nerf of this calliber is really depressing. Damage nerf + splash damage nerf. I really hope they up the radius and/or damage again soon. I have question though about the splash damage: Does the splash damage from the ultra originate from a point in front of the ultra (A) or is it ultralisk size/surface +2 range for 180 degrees (B).
I don't understand how pokeballs are related to ultralisk splash
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On September 28 2010 20:56 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:53 TyrantPotato wrote:On September 28 2010 20:49 Liquid`Ret wrote:
this is really ridiculous. nothing counters thors anymore ret mate. your so wrong. the counter to thors is more thors. so all zerg has to do.........oh...wait. im not even pissed anymore, Its just amusing by now ^^ Oh well, dling Mafia 2 atm, anyone got some tips on other good laid back Single Player games?
I already moved on to Civ5. I was hoping to play Starcraft 2 for months before possible getting bored but looks like the game is just crap at the moment and I will need to come back in few months.
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On September 28 2010 20:56 hoovehand wrote:
blizzard are working on buffing zerg, but that doesn't mean that in the meantime they can't fix the overpowered ultra splash.
the zerg race needs changes accross the board. easier scouting, mobile/smaller hydras, more practical ultralisks. zerg do not need a 50 mile splash range on ultralisks.
Actually, an Ultralisk was the only fun-OP-ish unit that Zerg had, now there's nothing. Exept perhaps for Broodlords, but still both of those are a LONG way down. Zerg's just not fun.
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On September 28 2010 20:59 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 20:51 Raiznhell wrote:On September 28 2010 20:48 clusen wrote:
This is so stupid, but fits perfectly to the patchhistory since beta, when MM-upgrades were buffed for no reason at all.
I guess next will be Broodlords, they just move too fast right now and you can't counter them with Thor and Marines. dude u gotta remember Terran was SOOOO weak early on in the beta. the constant buffs to get them up to date with protoss and zerg was just slightly overdone calm yourself bro. the game is so young. It was more of a matter than terran didn't know how to play. A lot of the strongest strategies involve only units that didn't get massive buffs. MMM PvT. Reaper, thor, banshee. Meanwhile a lot of sc1 players chose zerg and it was developed very quickly along with being a more simple race in general.
nobody knew how to play early in the beta.... and all the sc1 pros were eithe rplaying ranodm or wer't really being known of or being watched at that point... and all those units did get massive buffs primarily to their upgrades, build times and how they dished out damage minus the banshee. and zerg isn't really a simple race when thinking about drone management. and zerg wasn't really solved. people just did roach hydra every single matchup until a few nerfs forced them to start thinking about banelings, mutas and infestors. and the only really good sc1 pro that played zerg that was known of at the time was idra and thats it. otherwise tester played protoss and wasnt really watched until way later on in the beta.
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EPT
