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On September 24 2010 02:41 HowardRoark wrote:
The main issue that caused this travesty of a game is that Activision-(Blizzard) released the game far too early. It should have been in beta until the game was finished, but since they announced a date for release they could not postpone it - AND the reason why Blizzard were such a good company before was that they COULD postpone a release. But... with Activision in, they simply is not the same company it used to be when Bill Roper et al created SC1.
The dev team of Activision-(Blizzard) are not the same anymore, they consist of War3 devs and some lead designers hailing from C&C. From the beginning it was obvious that Zerg was flawed, and they should have reacted then, now it is too late.
Bill Roper created Starcraft? Haha, that was a good one.
Anyway SC 2 is a more polished product at the release than any previous Blizzard game. It's just that people compare it to a game that have been out for over a decade, which is understandable, but it just won't be as balanced.
Hopefully Blizzard won't abandon SC 2 like they did with WC 3 after Frozen Throne, but we don't really have to worry about that until after the protoss expansion.
Btw many of the key people from original SC, and most from BW, are still at Blizzard. People staying that long in a company is quite unusual in the game industry.
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On September 24 2010 02:34 TBO wrote:
I'd really like to see Cool's Terran vs TLO's Zerg.
Haha me too, and when TLO gets raped into reality I'd like to hear him comment on balance again. Really good players dont think about balance, but eventually reality will sink in and catch up.
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On September 24 2010 02:44 Nachtigaller wrote:
have you ever played world of warcraft?
for those of you who dont:
with the addon wrath of the lichking they introduced a new class, the death knight.
It was so unbelievably overpowered that it could 3-4 shot any other class in pvp, was nearly unkillable and had huge control over the match.
It took them 6 month to fix them even if they always said that "they are aware of the issue".
I dont expect them to tune zerg up in the near future.
Wow :the thing is Blizzard know ,that they can't make a perfect arena balance when they are 10 classes present . Its simply impossible, so their solution is to "rotate" FOTM classes -> Dk op in s5/s6, now on s8 dk is probably the worst pvp class, warlock utter shit in s5, now practicaly every setup has a lock etc. Wow beside MLG has hardly any cash tournaments, its a totally different concept.
Starcraft 2 on the other hand was intended to be a e-sport with lots of money involved, so atleast some kind of balance must be present...
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Terrans werent bad in the beta they were just fucking stupid.
Remember how many people during beta thought siege tanks were worthless?
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would be nice to see how the win %'s changed after the patch.
i feel like half the P's that were 2 gaters are going to drop dramatically and Z will go up.
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On September 24 2010 02:45 Wr3k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
Cool doesn't know how to use infestors to stop dropships? How do you propose you stop drops with infestors in an economic fashion? Fungal is 75 energy, 36 dmg. Dropships have 150hp. You would need to spawn at least a couple infested terrans in range of a fungaled dropship inorder to kill it. Not exactly reliable... you would be better hunting dropships with mutas. Unless NP was made infinite again....
You are missing out on 3 key points.
1. fungaled units cannot get into a dropship (aka the thor drop killer)
2. Fungalled dropships off of terrain (IE over an abyss) have no way of dropping their unit.
3. Vs multiple drops you need about 6-7 mutas per dropship and to spot each drop way ahead of time and have mutas in the area. with infestors you need 2 infestors per base, and to spot them within your reaction time away. (pros will spot them quicker, and react faster)
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
wow 10% win rate against his teammates is pretty shocking. i mean i know Clide and Tester are both beasts but Cool is right up there as well. i'll be rooting for you in the Ro16! gogo!
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Hey, this thread is about Cool, not TLO. Dickriders get out please unless you have something to say regarding the topic.
User was warned for this post
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Wow is WoW and Starcraft is Starcraft. If you (some people in this thread) can't understand the difference between 'balancing' WoW and balancing Starcraft/Starcraft 2 then I don't know why you're even here posting.
WoW has an insane number of things going on with any balance concern. Will it affect farming rates? How will it affect PvE? Will it ruin battlegrounds? Will it imbalance PvP? Is it a change that's fun for all skill levels? How does gear differences affect the change? Will characters now be able to solo/duo stuff we don't want them doing? How will it affect low level characters and their ability to level up? How will it affect each spec?
WoW is not intended to be balanced for 1 thing, it's attempting to be reasonably balanced for dozens of different things.
By comparison Starcraft is balanced for multiplayer and multiplayer alone. There may be some considerations for formats other than high level 1v1, but Blizzard by and large knows that's what's really important (and have said so).
Comparing the balancing efforts of WoW to those of SC/SC2 just makes you look like an idiot.
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On September 24 2010 02:46 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2010 02:34 TBO wrote:
I'd really like to see Cool's Terran vs TLO's Zerg. Cool would get wrecked, TLO is a beast w/ zerg i'm so sad that he isn't playing them. get on that! Hasn't Cool already stated he has already been able to beat top level Zergs when he offraces with Terran?
As i said, Cool was top of korean ladder with random in phase 2 where the terran imbalance became apparent.
I dunno why he went back to zerg.
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On September 24 2010 02:47 some_noob wrote:
stop talking to PrinceXizor, the kid is either a noob or a troll but he isn't worth talking to.
Yeah man, he's only a featured streamer or TL and a very intelligent Zerg player.
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Lol Hopefully they fix Zerg it will always be my main, I feel sorry for the pro gamers.
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On September 24 2010 02:48 RxN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:47 TheYango wrote:On September 24 2010 02:44 Nachtigaller wrote:
have you ever played world of warcraft?
for those of you who dont:
with the addon wrath of the lichking they introduced a new class, the death knight.
It was so unbelievably overpowered that it could 3-4 shot any other class in pvp, was nearly unkillable and had huge control over the match.
It took them 6 month to fix them even if they always said that "they are aware of the issue".
I dont expect them to tune zerg up in the near future. You say that like 6 months is a long time. It is when you're trying to grow a game in its initial release phase. Taking 6 months to fix this situation will do nothing but drive people away from the game, which will only hurt it in the long run.
age of conan proves this point.
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yay, finally we can stop hearing newbies saying "look at korean ladder, zerg is fine l2p" or "check/cool arent whining, l2p" even while idra would continuously tell us the current sentiment in korea on zerg weakness
no, zerg isnt fine and yes they've already learned to play
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On September 24 2010 02:39 s.a.y wrote:Hope dimaga doesn't switch 
There is one replay in the replays thread. Post-patch and Dimaga plays T. I hope he was just playing T for fun, tho wouldn't blame him if he switched.
On another note, I wish people stopped saying stuff like "it took 3 years to balance bw or wc3, be patient, etc." This isn't a freaking pet we bought so we have to expect the same life-cycle.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 24 2010 02:48 RxN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:47 TheYango wrote:On September 24 2010 02:44 Nachtigaller wrote:
have you ever played world of warcraft?
for those of you who dont:
with the addon wrath of the lichking they introduced a new class, the death knight.
It was so unbelievably overpowered that it could 3-4 shot any other class in pvp, was nearly unkillable and had huge control over the match.
It took them 6 month to fix them even if they always said that "they are aware of the issue".
I dont expect them to tune zerg up in the near future. You say that like 6 months is a long time. It is when you're trying to grow a game in its initial release phase. Taking 6 months to fix this situation will do nothing but drive people away from the game, which will only hurt it in the long run.
On September 24 2010 02:49 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:47 TheYango wrote:On September 24 2010 02:44 Nachtigaller wrote:
have you ever played world of warcraft?
for those of you who dont:
with the addon wrath of the lichking they introduced a new class, the death knight.
It was so unbelievably overpowered that it could 3-4 shot any other class in pvp, was nearly unkillable and had huge control over the match.
It took them 6 month to fix them even if they always said that "they are aware of the issue".
I dont expect them to tune zerg up in the near future. You say that like 6 months is a long time. That is 6 GSLs. That is long enough to make or break this game in esports with that much money on the line.
You sort of missed the point. For the user, 6 months feels like a long time. For the developer, finishing a project that's getting basically no development budget from the higher-ups (because do you honestly think Activision would spend a dime on patching SC2 when the game is already out?) in 6 months is probably pretty good time.
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On September 24 2010 02:39 Deadlyfish wrote:
Do you think blizzard cares if some Koreans cant make money off of their game? No, and neither do I.
Your posts all come of sounding like "deal with it". So because you could care less whether the game is balanced or not, no one else should? You realize where you are posting?
Also you keep making excuses for blizzard saying that no games ever created are initially balanced.. When you are passionate about the games you play just saying "no problem I'm sure they will eventually fix it" is very difficult, especially when the same imbalances that have existed and have been expressed since release are brushed aside in the latest patch.
But there is really no point in arguing with you, the "deal with it" defense is unbreakable. I preemptively concede.
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On September 24 2010 02:33 aaav34 wrote:
The problem for Blizz is that at this stage it's hard to tell whether supposed "imbalances" are genuine race weaknesses/strengthes, or the result of the game being so young and not all strategies explored.
Something is wrong with T and Z.... but it's hard to tell exactly what. That's why Blizzard is so conservative with their patches.
I don't think so, issues were adressed various times
* Zerg has few cheese possibilities while P/T have. Boring from Bronze .. Gold. Lots of T/P overthere have a one base all-in strats winning them most of the games against (evenly or slightly better skilled) Zergs
* Zerg is damned to be reactive, but has limited scouting. Every race should have a way to be played agressively and creative. Besides 6 Pool and BBust there is not much a zerg can do to dictate the game. Mutas are too late.
* T balls just have too much a punch. Mass Thor/Hellion/Tank with autorepair, marine drops are extremely hard to stop even if you see them coming pumping from 4 bases. The production advantage of Zerg does not make up for this.
* It requires much more APM to defend than to attack, therefore the forced-to-be-defensive Zerg needs much more APM and skill to win against P or T.
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On September 24 2010 02:53 Ghazwan wrote:There is one replay in the replays thread. Post-patch and Dimaga plays T. I hope he was just playing T for fun, tho wouldn't blame him if he switched. On another note, I wish people stopped saying stuff like "it took 3 years to balance bw or wc3, be patient, etc." This isn't a freaking pet we bought so we have to expect the same life-cycle.
Not to mention that they are supposed to have an expansion in a year and a half, so basically if they don't get it balanced in a few months over half the legitimate time people could be professional with WoL will be spent in imbaland.
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Nooooooo fruitseller...! One of our finest generals...
I agree dropships are a pain in the ass to handle. But how would you fix that? Make them more expensive? Nerf healing? How about nerf capacity?
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EPT
