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On October 04 2010 23:02 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 17:57 kickinhead wrote:On October 04 2010 17:51 Sairon wrote:
The terrans played poorly, if you would've actually looked at the games you would've seen that almost every win was decided by mind games. As the game on desert oasis, Cool guesses mass marine and lo and behold, ITR went mass marine. Besides, it's pretty damn stupid to balance the game around 1 player, there's pretty much nobody in this entire thread which plays at the same level as these guys.
At mid diamond you still get stomped by terrans blindly doing their builds without even scouting from time to time. Totally agreed. InCa just got cheesed by Fruitseller in the first game, and the 2nd game was a more or less lucky all-in. TOP totally blew his 3rd game in a pretty ridiculous fashion and ITR did absolutely NO DMG in the early-game and let Fruitseller macro up and win the game, cuz ZvT isn't that bad in the lategame as it is in the early-game for Zerg. All the other Matches were against players that were totally inferior to Fruitseller anyways. Besides, as Fruitseller said in an interview (and I've been having the same thoughts about this for weeks now), TvZ isn't as broken as PvZ. TvZ is very hard early on, but if you manage to survive the early-game and drone up heavily (and not die to a timing-attack when you are droning up), it's possible to win on most Maps, but against a good Protoss, the MU is hard from the beginning (a bit better now since the Zealot-nerf) to the very end. PvZ is fine. 2 gate was the source of imbalance and now you can 14 hatch so long as you don't get pylon/cannon blocked on your ramp (which is the final remaining imbalance). Stalker/colossus midgame deathballs are hard to deal with, but they're managable, and if you beat it you basically win because it's so allin. I don't ever remember fruitseller saying pvz is broken, but I'm sure it was pre 1.1. If you could link the source that'd be great.
You are forgetting the zerg killing unit, SENTRY.
Forcefield make Zergs like me cry.
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On October 04 2010 23:02 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 17:57 kickinhead wrote:On October 04 2010 17:51 Sairon wrote:
The terrans played poorly, if you would've actually looked at the games you would've seen that almost every win was decided by mind games. As the game on desert oasis, Cool guesses mass marine and lo and behold, ITR went mass marine. Besides, it's pretty damn stupid to balance the game around 1 player, there's pretty much nobody in this entire thread which plays at the same level as these guys.
At mid diamond you still get stomped by terrans blindly doing their builds without even scouting from time to time. Totally agreed. InCa just got cheesed by Fruitseller in the first game, and the 2nd game was a more or less lucky all-in. TOP totally blew his 3rd game in a pretty ridiculous fashion and ITR did absolutely NO DMG in the early-game and let Fruitseller macro up and win the game, cuz ZvT isn't that bad in the lategame as it is in the early-game for Zerg. All the other Matches were against players that were totally inferior to Fruitseller anyways. Besides, as Fruitseller said in an interview (and I've been having the same thoughts about this for weeks now), TvZ isn't as broken as PvZ. TvZ is very hard early on, but if you manage to survive the early-game and drone up heavily (and not die to a timing-attack when you are droning up), it's possible to win on most Maps, but against a good Protoss, the MU is hard from the beginning (a bit better now since the Zealot-nerf) to the very end. PvZ is fine. 2 gate was the source of imbalance and now you can 14 hatch so long as you don't get pylon/cannon blocked on your ramp (which is the final remaining imbalance). Stalker/colossus midgame deathballs are hard to deal with, but they're managable, and if you beat it you basically win because it's so allin. I don't ever remember fruitseller saying pvz is broken, but I'm sure it was pre 1.1. If you could link the source that'd be great.
you cant hatch 1st really vs P before you see a gateway instead of a forge. and even then i had Ps just cutting probes to slap down a forge instantly to just cannon behind the mins or whatever.
also why are stalker/collosus balls allins? blink stalker/collosus does well against evry Z combo in the game and can transition into pretty much evrything and makes taking a 3rd kinda easy for the P.
just disagree with those 2 things and overall zvp lategame is alot harder with the heavily nerfed ultra.
overall i would actually say that zvp is worse then zvt in the "power dynamics". zvt you atleast have some phases where you can force the T into certain stuff or scare him off. in zvp the P is in control the entire match and can force you into whatever unit combo he likes to play against the most.
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On October 05 2010 23:41 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
you cant hatch 1st really vs P before you see a gateway instead of a forge. and even then i had Ps just cutting probes to slap down a forge instantly to just cannon behind the mins or whatever.
also why are stalker/collosus balls allins? blink stalker/collosus does well against evry Z combo in the game and can transition into pretty much evrything and makes taking a 3rd kinda easy for the P.
just disagree with those 2 things and overall zvp lategame is alot harder with the heavily nerfed ultra.
overall i would actually say that zvp is worse then zvt in the "power dynamics". zvt you atleast have some phases where you can force the T into certain stuff or scare him off. in zvp the P is in control the entire match and can force you into whatever unit combo he likes to play against the most.
Agreed!
Since patch 1.1, my zvp has been absolutely terrible for me. I think my win percentage against p is probably like 25%, where as I am winning about 75% of my zvt mathcups. The only time I usually win against p is when they make a mistake. p can just dictate everything that goes on in the match.
I have been trying the dimaga style build, aka all lings to ultras, but i get owned everytime i am just about to lay down the ultralisk cavern by an army of stalkers/immortals. 
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Is this the same guy who rofltstomped everyone on his way to the first GSL final? =]
I agree Zerg need some buffs, but if in the current "imba TvZ" situation he already won solidly (lost 1 match in the finals due to bad drops and hydras kinda sucking) imagine if Zerg was slightly more powerful.
He'd be the Jaedong of SC 2 without Flash to bother him.
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+ Show Spoiler +The grand finale in the GSL was so one sided in Fruitseller's favour but I do think if HopeTorture didn't choke so bad (seemed to me like he choked) then it would have been alot closer.
That all said though, I think Fruitseller STILL would have won 4-3 because he is just so epically awesome at Zerg. Definitely made the 1v1 imba arguement a touch silly.
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Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits.
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On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits.
Hum, have you tried to check the date this thread has been posted? It will answer many of your questions.
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On October 05 2010 23:41 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 23:02 Floophead_III wrote:On October 04 2010 17:57 kickinhead wrote:On October 04 2010 17:51 Sairon wrote:
The terrans played poorly, if you would've actually looked at the games you would've seen that almost every win was decided by mind games. As the game on desert oasis, Cool guesses mass marine and lo and behold, ITR went mass marine. Besides, it's pretty damn stupid to balance the game around 1 player, there's pretty much nobody in this entire thread which plays at the same level as these guys.
At mid diamond you still get stomped by terrans blindly doing their builds without even scouting from time to time. Totally agreed. InCa just got cheesed by Fruitseller in the first game, and the 2nd game was a more or less lucky all-in. TOP totally blew his 3rd game in a pretty ridiculous fashion and ITR did absolutely NO DMG in the early-game and let Fruitseller macro up and win the game, cuz ZvT isn't that bad in the lategame as it is in the early-game for Zerg. All the other Matches were against players that were totally inferior to Fruitseller anyways. Besides, as Fruitseller said in an interview (and I've been having the same thoughts about this for weeks now), TvZ isn't as broken as PvZ. TvZ is very hard early on, but if you manage to survive the early-game and drone up heavily (and not die to a timing-attack when you are droning up), it's possible to win on most Maps, but against a good Protoss, the MU is hard from the beginning (a bit better now since the Zealot-nerf) to the very end. PvZ is fine. 2 gate was the source of imbalance and now you can 14 hatch so long as you don't get pylon/cannon blocked on your ramp (which is the final remaining imbalance). Stalker/colossus midgame deathballs are hard to deal with, but they're managable, and if you beat it you basically win because it's so allin. I don't ever remember fruitseller saying pvz is broken, but I'm sure it was pre 1.1. If you could link the source that'd be great. you cant hatch 1st really vs P before you see a gateway instead of a forge. and even then i had Ps just cutting probes to slap down a forge instantly to just cannon behind the mins or whatever. also why are stalker/collosus balls allins? blink stalker/collosus does well against evry Z combo in the game and can transition into pretty much evrything and makes taking a 3rd kinda easy for the P. just disagree with those 2 things and overall zvp lategame is alot harder with the heavily nerfed ultra. overall i would actually say that zvp is worse then zvt in the "power dynamics". zvt you atleast have some phases where you can force the T into certain stuff or scare him off. in zvp the P is in control the entire match and can force you into whatever unit combo he likes to play against the most.
Um to stop the cannon block + cannons at your nat or whatever is very easy. If you scout with your drone and see a forge you put a drone at the end of your ramp and put on patrol. If they try to kill it with their probe send another drone. If they decide to just put a pylon somewhere else and then put cannons. If you put 4 drones on a cannon it will kill the cannon before it can finish easy. Its really not that hard to stop at all just pull some drones and any cannon rush is nullified.
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On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits.
First off that last statement is totally ridiculous. Terran will still be the easiest to play, by far, without question.
Second, he made the statement before he won, and before patch 1.1. Which I still think he has a right to say what he did, since it was pretty obvious he vastly outclassed almost everyone in GSL1 and still struggled at points.
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On October 12 2010 04:18 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits. Hum, have you tried to check the date this thread has been posted? It will answer many of your questions.
yea mod needs to edit the title of this thread or close it
many people are gonna get confused about why he said this even though he stated this before patch 1.1 came out
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I thought he said this the day after 1.1 came out?
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Hey anybody now how Cannon Pylon Wall in was dealt with in BW?
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On October 12 2010 04:25 Raiden X wrote:
Hey anybody now how Cannon Pylon Wall in was dealt with in BW?
Lings fit between pylons in BW
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On October 12 2010 04:21 throttled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits. First off that last statement is totally ridiculous. Terran will still be the easiest to play, by far, without question.
With question, actually. It's probably protoss (and the ladder breakdown confirms this)
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On October 12 2010 04:35 TheGreatHegemon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:21 throttled wrote:On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits. First off that last statement is totally ridiculous. Terran will still be the easiest to play, by far, without question. With question, actually. It's probably protoss (and the ladder breakdown confirms this)
Stop basing this off ladder results, since it really doesn't mean anything at all.
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Mods really should close this old thread since it's no longer relevant (i.e. statements were made before the 1.2 announcement and before he won the GSL). It's clear he is sticking with Zerg.
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On October 12 2010 04:16 Dr.Anders wrote:
Cool Just seem like an arrogant bastard, how can he make such a statement after winning the GSL? I mean wtf, hasn't he read the coming patch (supply depot before barracks, that sure makes 9-pools- hard to deal with, all you can make in time would be a supply wall. Other than that, I mean seriously man, you just won the GSL, I mean what?! I'm not even playing terran but I still think they will become the hardest race, once the patch hits.
If you go 10 supply, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15 orbital without mistakes, you can hold a 6 pool.
Thus 9 rax isn't a necessity. But i still dislike the supply before Rax because it kill every form of Terran Cheese. Which i personally believe should be part of the game. Especially since Zerg can cheese. And in SC2 Protoss is master of all things Cheesy
Think about it without Cheese FlaSH would have never knock out Bisu that one game. When Flash was a nobody.
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EPT
