EPTFruitseller (Cool) may change his race in GSL #2 - Page 34
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Bubu
Germany29 Posts
| ||
|
Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
 I do feel like the only way Zergs will get back on track is through early game boosts: - Make overlords detectors like in BW OR make overseers really cheap and fast to upgrade at tier 1. - Upgrade stats of overlords, make them beefier and faster. - Buff the queen hp so that it can take on a solo uncloaked banshee np All i can think of right now. | ||
|
OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:38 mahnini wrote: i never understood the whole "patch it now!" mentality. to me that makes very little sense if we think about the game long term. if we mis-patch something now and have to re-patch something later what does that say about the people who won during the mis-patch? is blizzard going to babysit the game with patches every time a race has a hard time? understandably, it may be frustrating now but it's best to take it slow with long-term stability in mind. Well I'm just trying to say that SC2 won't be very successful as an e-sport right now. IMO they should patch quickly if they want to keep the professional SC2 scene balanced now. If they want it to naturally be balanced, they should stop offering huge prize pools for tournements such as GSL. | ||
|
Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:38 mahnini wrote: i never understood the whole "patch it now!" mentality. to me that makes very little sense if we think about the game long term. if we mis-patch something now and have to re-patch something later what does that say about the people who won during the mis-patch? is blizzard going to babysit the game with patches every time a race has a hard time? understandably, it may be frustrating now but it's best to take it slow with long-term stability in mind. What the fuck dude. What the fuck. Why does this shit only apply to when zerg's are the nerfest? Where were you when zerg's were slightly dominating durign the beta and got nerfed every other week? How hypocritical can you people be? | ||
|
crms
United States11933 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:40 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: I dunno but he would probably need a cart to haul his balls around. lol... I hope this is just frustration from cool, he is one of my fav zergs to watch. We need all the zergs we can right now. although on the flipside more top level zergs switching race has to more quickly bring attention to the zerg flaws. | ||
|
iNty.sCream
Germany195 Posts
sorry i had to post this | ||
|
Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:38 mahnini wrote: i never understood the whole "patch it now!" mentality. to me that makes very little sense if we think about the game long term. if we mis-patch something now and have to re-patch something later what does that say about the people who won during the mis-patch? is blizzard going to babysit the game with patches every time a race has a hard time? understandably, it may be frustrating now but it's best to take it slow with long-term stability in mind. But mahnini, that assumes that Blizzard in fact has the time to slowly patch things. Should this have been SC1 again and there was nothing on the line for Blizzard other than the copies it can sell, I'd agree. However, we are in an age where that immediately upon the release of the game, there are large competitive events starting, an emerging market that's highly dependent on game balance. Should Blizzard only care about the sales of SC2 and its expansions, then yes, taking its time is certainly an option. However, it just isn't entertaining to see a game containing supposedly 3 races and only 2 used in the tournaments. Most of us figured that the next expansion will probably make zerg a lot more polished, but that's 18 months away at best. How many of us will care about SC2 still if the game isn't entertaining to watch or play (for the what, 20ish% zerg players out there?) Honestly it'll probably be healthier for e-sports as an industry for Blizzard to apply such bandaid fixes than to be cautious and not try to overreact to things. | ||
|
PuppyFur
United States6 Posts
I have my faith in HOTS | ||
|
TitleRug
United States651 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:38 mahnini wrote: i never understood the whole "patch it now!" mentality. to me that makes very little sense if we think about the game long term. if we mis-patch something now and have to re-patch something later what does that say about the people who won during the mis-patch? is blizzard going to babysit the game with patches every time a race has a hard time? understandably, it may be frustrating now but it's best to take it slow with long-term stability in mind. I agree with this. I don't like the idea of a company controlling the way the game changes. I like it better when the community changes the way the game is played and comes up with the strategy. But I do agree that sometimes the game makers have to patch the game to fix clear imbalances such as this. | ||
|
Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:34 FliedLice wrote: hey, 2months old game is imbalanced surprise surprise afaik sc1 was pretty much crap until BW wasn't it? (i was 7 back then, so i have no idea) at least day9 said something in that direction in some interview re effin' lax. It's not that simple, things were way different back in 1998, and the esport rts scene didn't get big until the mid 2000s. The reason why top zerg players like Cool are pissed is that it took two months for the first balance patch and it barely helps their race at all. What is it going to take another two months to find out if the next patch would help? How many pros would be willing to wait that long? If you love SC2 this is not the time to relax, you should urge Blizzard to fix zerg before it becomes extinct. You might say we still have protoss and terran but that's not good enough, even right now I hear people complaining all the time about not seeing any zerg in the finals of tournaments, imagine if there's none in the tournament at all? Interest would indeed drop which would mean sponsors would then drop, and that'd be the end of the SC2 esports scene. | ||
|
XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:34 FliedLice wrote: hey, 2months old game is imbalanced surprise surprise afaik sc1 was pretty much crap until BW wasn't it? (i was 7 back then, so i have no idea) at least day9 said something in that direction in some interview re effin' lax. The two situations are totally different. One of the most important points in relation to the OP is that Blizzard have now decided to be their own eSport engine with from gretech and gom. They're therefore much more responsible for the game being balance before that tournament started. They took a chance, they failed... I guess. | ||
|
mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: What if we patch and realize the game was, in fact, crap before? What does it say about the people who won? Works both ways -.- that's true but it but being patient avoids having to have blizzard intervene frequently and possibly introducing the flavor of the month so to speak with patches. what if they were to nerf marauders and 3 months from now a terran has the reverse problem tvz and instead of a patient, methodical approach they patched it shortly after? | ||
|
zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:46 PuppyFur wrote: im just sad cool might not be playing zerg anymore :'( I have my faith in HOTS your going to wait 2 more years? lol really sad to see Z like this. In high level play, against high level terran, it does get ridiculous for Z. | ||
|
Lefnui
United States753 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:19 Titan107 wrote: Defending. I don't care what idra, dimaga, or cool say, I really dont. They could say zerg is overpowered and I wouldn't give a shit. That shows blatant ignorance and arrogance. Before patch, the only imbalance was 5rax reaper. Now, after patch, that strategy is gone and zerg stands a chance. The goal as a zerg player is to survive the early harassment and push to late game. That is totally false. There were many aspects of ZvT that were, and continue to be imbalanced. Take the topic of the thread, MM drops. They are extremely strong and without scourges it's difficult to stop them. Also take into account that Terran doesn't have to invest anything for the drop since medivacs are already necessary in almost any build. And if Zerg players did as you recommend and went without mutas then they would have absolutely no way to stop the drops. Then there's mech, which was another huge problem. Yes, it is true you cannot make a mistake as zerg. However, if you make no mistakes... your odds of winning are much higher than a terran. Not enough zergs are taking advantage of overlord speed, burrow, drops, or the ability to rapidly expand and outmacro the terran. Your comback to that statement might be, O BUT WAIT YOU NEED TIME TO REsearch! I say, no, you need to scout. Timing and scouting is the crux to the zerg race. Miss nothing and you will win. Why people write such meaningless paragraphs I do not know. You basically just said "Hey Zerg, play perfectly and you'll win". Well that's some brilliant advice, thanks. Back to infestor play: I find that infestors take zerg to the late game with more success than mutalisks (unless you see a window of opportunity through scouting). The ability to stop an army for 8 seconds at a time REALLY adds up when you take into consideration 40 sec. larvae spit. Also, its abilty to intercept drops with proper overlord/creep placement. Infested terrans are damn good as well. If you payed any attention to the topic at hand you would know that Cool has experimented with Infestors more than any other Zerg. Guess what, it hasn't worked. The strength of the zerg is their macro. Once you hit 3 bases, you can pretty much 5 hatch lings and run over the terran (not through attacking, but defending-Once again, scouting). When you say things like that it makes it sound like you're a Bronze player. 3 base lings runs over Terran? Are you kidding? Not a single thing you said supported your ridiculous assertion that Zerg>Terran. On September 24 2010 06:04 DeckOneBell wrote: I love how Nazgul, a professional level Starcraft 2 player comes into a thread with a fairly reasonable view of learning curve vs. balance, and immediately is shot down by many players citing zerg player rage. Nazgul is not at the pro level. IdrA, Check, Dimaga, Cool and Zenio are though. Funny how you put more worth in Nazgul's views than theirs. | ||
|
greycubed
United States615 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:47 mahnini wrote: Yeah a 100% chance of zerg being fucked is better than an X% chance of Terran being fucked. that's true but it but being patient avoids having to have blizzard intervene frequently and possibly introducing the flavor of the month so to speak with patches. what if they were to nerf marauders and 3 months from now a terran has the reverse problem tvz and instead of a patient, methodical approach they patched it shortly after? Obviously. | ||
|
awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I think Zerg just need to be buffed. The two primary issues people have identified with Zerg are their reliance on creep, and their lack of effective scouting which hurts because they're so reactionary. Since "reliance on creep" is clearly an intentional mechanic and I doubt Blizzard wants to do away with it, I'd like to see them make two fairly simple changes: Overlord speed should not be an upgrade, it should be the default Overlord speed. This would help a lot with scouting, both in that Zerg players would get early game info significantly earlier, and it'd be easier to get Overlords far enough into an enemy's base to see things before they got shot down. I might also consider giving them farther vision. Creep tumors should spread creep farther and faster. I'd go so far as to say that making 1 creep tumor spread as much creep as 2 tumors currently do might be in order. If Zerg are going to rely on creep so much that it kills their aggressiveness, make the creep itself an aggressive mechanic, something that if left unchecked will be able to cover large portions of the map very quickly. These two simple changes, which don't require fundamentally altering any units or the playstyle of the race in any way, would do a lot to fix Zerg's current issues. Hydras, for example, would be much more viable, because getting creep when and where you need it would be vastly easier. And reacting effectively would be a lot easier if Overlords were better scouts than they currently are. Zerg could remain a "reactive" race that is reliant on creep, which is evidently how Blizzard wants them to play, but both reacting and using creep would be significantly easier. | ||
|
TitleRug
United States651 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:50 wrgrbl wrote: Yeah a 100% chance of zerg being fucked is better than an X% chance of Terran being fucked. Obviously. Wow a lot of people are angry at you mahnini. I actually agree with you. It would be really strange to have a new strategy every 2 months due to a patch. | ||
|
IndieFinch
United States124 Posts
Had a guy the other day do some insane drops on me. Went behind the mineral line to kill the queen and drones. While my lings got all choked up there, he dropped on my ledge near expo (on LT), killed that queen. Then he proceeded to keep dropping everywhere sniping drones / buildings until I finally had only a few drones remaining. After the game I ask him what he has seen work against it and he said "I used to play Zerg but this happened to me, I switched to terran right after. You can't beat it because I will be dropping you before you get mutas or hydras" Something along the lines of an upgradable drop might be a bit to help out. It is crap as zerg that I need to spend 300/300 and wait 2 or 3 min just to get ready to drop him. But we wont see patch 1.2 at least until after Blizzcon. So any bit of complaining will not change a thing in the coming months. | ||
|
omnigol
United States166 Posts
On September 24 2010 06:47 mahnini wrote: that's true but it but being patient avoids having to have blizzard intervene frequently and possibly introducing the flavor of the month so to speak with patches. what if they were to nerf marauders and 3 months from now a terran has the reverse problem tvz and instead of a patient, methodical approach they patched it shortly after? If marauders sucked, then terran could wall in during the early game, and tech to banshees, or maybe mech play. Or just still open reapers... | ||
|
bjwithbraces
United States549 Posts
On September 24 2010 02:41 Metalwing wrote: If Zenio and Cool switch races, and Check changes too, I swear I'll never watch gsl again. It's not GSL's fault at all, you should rather thank them because tournaments like this on such a huge scale are making players like cool raise red flags because to compete at the highest level successfully they need to be terran. Thus in turn we can hope blizzard notices finally as it's not just low quality players crying, it's the top tiered players that the game is supposed to be balanced for | ||
| ||
