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On September 24 2010 06:19 Titan107 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 04:04 Lefnui wrote:On September 24 2010 03:59 Titan107 wrote:On September 24 2010 03:53 Lefnui wrote:On September 24 2010 03:47 Titan107 wrote:On September 24 2010 03:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
To me it seems like the biggest problems for Zerg is being incapable of fighting off-creep (hydras and ultras are just useless once they get off creep), and there not being sufficient space for proper flanking on a lot of maps (or, even if there is a flank, the paths are still so small that a few force fields will turn the flank into nothing).
Although my beliefs are that Zerg > Terran Atm (even pre-patch with Solid mechanics/infestor play). And you came to that insane conclusion how? Jinro is spot on. Read his posts. No, you said it so you defend it. I haven't read all of Jinro's posts in this thread but I highly doubt he said that Zerg is stronger than Terran. To say that Zerg>Terran even before the patch is just insane. You'd think the fact that every single top Zerg says the race is horribly weak would have some effect on people here. But no, they don't care. Apparently their views of Zerg are superior to those of Check, Cool, Zenio, IdrA and Dimaga. Defending. I don't care what idra, dimaga, or cool say, I really dont. They could say zerg is overpowered and I wouldn't give a shit. Before patch, the only imbalance was 5rax reaper. Now, after patch, that strategy is gone and zerg stands a chance. The goal as a zerg player is to survive the early harassment and push to late game!
This is why we need a forum with a requirement to post in. Holy check!
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On September 24 2010 06:23 TitleRug wrote:
I'm unhappy about this, because it just puts more coal into the imbalance discussion. The reason I hate the imbalance discussion is that people are fighting over which race is better or overpowered, and there is so much anger being passed around. Another reason is that many people fail to provide any solutions to the problem. The fact that Cool and Zenio would stoop down to the level of outright saying their race is underpowered without a proper solution to the imbalance upsets me. I feel even Idra is more civil in the discussion of imbalance. At least he talks about how Zerg can be improved and how the other races can be nerfed.
Cool was just venting his frustration with this practices, very people are calm and rational in the mid of his frustration. Look at Idra mid game, rage!, after the game, rage, a day or so later, completely fine and a great person to talk to about balance.
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Regarding the OP, Cool's statement makes me quite sad. His games were honestly some of the most entertaining to watch, and despite the fact that his play most likely won't lose its luster if he switches races, it's sad that he felt the need to do so just so he could compete.
I'm not really sure what to make of the balance changes... As a former WoW player, it seemed like Blizzard's balance changes often included small change after small change, none of which fixed the problem, until all of a sudden they'd overcompensate and push out a massive change that just made the balance situation worse. That system was pretty darn undesirable, but I also agree that these small changes aren't really cutting it, especially if the top players feel the need to switch races in order to stay competitive.
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On September 24 2010 06:13 iNty.sCream wrote:
i wonder how blizzard ( the company who obviously created broodwar ), can mess up stuff like this. for example the medivac thingy, why it hast to come out earlier?
The current Blizzard is not the creator of Brood War. Personally, I see the two generations of Blizzard as two totally different companies.
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On September 24 2010 06:23 Ziemas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 06:20 Williowa wrote:Ahahaha. Sorry, it's so cute. Cool is so natural and pure. Believe him, if he says zerg doesn't work, it doesn't work. Cool is not the kind of guy to react this way without a VERY serious reason. He lost to a 13 year old on his first time ever to get into a booth at anything like the GSL. He lost a large amount of prize pool from just winning one more game. After loosing his game, the opponent that beat him lost by a lot in his next match up. I'd be raging pretty hard to when what I do with my life gets humiliated like that. Are you confusing  Cool with CellaWerra?
I was confused as well. lol
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On September 24 2010 06:20 Williowa wrote:Show nested quote +Ahahaha. Sorry, it's so cute. Cool is so natural and pure. Believe him, if he says zerg doesn't work, it doesn't work. Cool is not the kind of guy to react this way without a VERY serious reason. He lost to a 13 year old on his first time ever to get into a booth at anything like the GSL. He lost a large amount of prize pool from just winning one more game. After loosing his game, the opponent that beat him lost by a lot in his next match up. I'd be raging pretty hard to when what I do with my life gets humiliated like that.
Cellawerra isn't Cool.
As much as I have respect for him, Cool is just a whole different league above him.
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On September 24 2010 06:02 gozima wrote:
This isn't the BW era of gaming. If Blizz take their sweet time balancing Zerg, a lot of people will lose interest in SC2 as a game and E-Sport.
It's ridiculous for Blizz to wait until HoTS to fully flesh out Zerg because by that time, only a small fraction of people that bought SC2 will still be interested in the game.
This is the thing that worries me the most because if Z "dies" before the expansion HoTs will not be able to get the viewers back and SC2 might end up in the bin with all the rest of the "E-sports oriented" games that did not fulfill the promises of the creators. Of couse atm this argument has the legimity of a dooms-day prophet on the street but if several of the big Z names gives up the fall of Z will go even faster. Why would any new player go Z when the first thing you hear is Z is shit, even to pro's gave up and went T or P and if this becomes reality there is no way Z will get back up before HoTs.
For me personally the rate of patches doesn't really matter because atm I have civ 5 to play and altough I'm a Z to the heart I still enjoy watching T and P. Blizzard on the other hand should be worried because even if they eventually get a good balance it wont matter because no one will be there to play Z because they gave up and went on with T, P or another game.
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This is the natural flow of things. Zerg are one dimensional and can be abused and exploited in so many ways. It is inevitable to for high level player wanting to change race when losing unfairly costs them actual money.
Blizzard is taking things 1 step at a time but I don't think it's enough.
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On September 24 2010 06:26 XsebT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 06:13 iNty.sCream wrote:
i wonder how blizzard ( the company who obviously created broodwar ), can mess up stuff like this. for example the medivac thingy, why it hast to come out earlier? The current Blizzard is not the creator of Brood War. Personally, I see the two generations of Blizzard as two totally different companies.
I totally feel the same. I dunno, they're just not the same ones who created games like Starcraft or Diablo 2....
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One thing for the OP:
Did he say this after it was discover that ultras have that ridiculous splash damage on buildings or before?
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On September 24 2010 06:19 Djeez wrote:
I play Zerg, so I obviously feel the terran imba, but as a non-pro player (far from it), I think most of those zerg mechanics things that you guys mention (higher APM need, constant awareness of timing for inject and creep spreading etc..) make zerg that much fun to play with. I believe it's the only race that actually pumps me up to play. Toss and Terran bores me right off the bat, without an ovie to mess around with in the very early game.
I also play zerg and I agree with you that it's more fun than T and P. In beta I pretty much only played terran and I thought that zerg was such a boring race, but now the macro mechanics really intrigue me. 
I think a lot of the "imbalance" for zerg comes from the maps. Even in brood war small changes in a map could throw off the whole balance between the races at the top level.
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On September 24 2010 05:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Nobody still has a clue about learning curves of the races. It's hard enough to find balance in RTS but to control the learning curves of 3 different games (races) this complicated to be similar is pretty much impossible. How hard is basic control for tank/marauder, now compare it to how hard it is to control the correct counter ling/infestor. Clearly Zerg needs more time to reach its max than Terran does.
That and every Zerg out there still doesn't creep properly. You see top level Zergs not getting multiple tumors at all times in the game, not getting overlord speed. Why complain about unit strength when you aren't getting the number one upgrade for your units (creep) in the whole game. This is just puzzling.
There may or may not be balance issues, but let's start with these things. It's like Terrans forgetting concussive shells and siege mode every game they play. Creep spread is simply a lot harder to pull off than just pressing an upgrade button, but that brings us back to not knowing the learning curves of each race, which is not the same as imbalance.
Maybe you should play zerg Nazgul since you are such an inventive player and have thought of things the top korean pros have never thought of. I find it hard to listen from a terran perspective about how zergs need to play better. I know I will get banned for this but I find it extremely frustrating when I see terran/protoss telling zerg they aren't playing right, specially when its the best zerg in the world.
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On September 24 2010 06:00 Sprouter wrote:
i wonder if idra is planning on changing races too XD
I believe he said that he might be worth it, financially, to switch at some point.
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people will keep making up new strats and blizzard should have some new patch to fix everything up i bet. keep whining and blizzard will cav
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3 new terrans. Fool, JulyTerran and Ogs.Mechanio
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On September 24 2010 05:13 In1t4themoney wrote:
Problem with zerglings is that they dumbasslike move around the opponent instead of attacking something they could actually hit. Even 24/7 korean progamers cant micro that properly
I think one of the major issues is that lings are in many cases rendered completely useless by the way units in this game clump together. Any kind of sizeable MM army groups together into an impenetrable ball-shaped formation where only the units situated on the perimeter of the ball can take damge, while those units inside the ball are free to rain down hell upon poor unsuspecting melee units like the zergling and zealot.
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On September 24 2010 06:30 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 06:00 Sprouter wrote:
i wonder if idra is planning on changing races too XD I believe he said that he might be worth it, financially, to switch at some point.
Well, when you play the game for cash and you know that there is a probability of X% of losing the game even if doing everything right, you can't blame him, can you?
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i dont think he wants to blame idra, cause nobody can do that. but it shows something obvious again.
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On September 24 2010 02:25 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 02:14 travis wrote:
who can blame him blizzard clearly is either bad at balancing the game or just doesn't care very much about making it good for top level competition
i guess they just don't mind taking 2 years to balance the game when people are trying to play it for a living That's stupid. Nobody should be playing SC for a living, maybe as an experience or something, but those who try to make a living off it deserve to get screwd. It's just a game.
Then by your logic no one should be paid to play football, basketball, baseball, pool, poker, bowling, sideways blindfodled midget tossing....
Jeez how fun monday night football would be when everyone playign was a volunteer! hooray !
Sheesh
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EPT
