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[VOTE] SC2 Player quality limits in order to post - Page 25

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c.Deadly
Profile Joined March 2010
United States545 Posts
September 21 2010 16:35 GMT
#481
This is a bad idea. If other people can read the "pros only" forum then someone is bound to create a discussion topic on the regular strategy forum for every topic on the other forum, and it will turn into a moderation nightmare.

If all the self proclaimed "good" players who whine constantly about the low-level discussion in the SC2 strategy forum actually started posting there, it would become a much more pleasant place.
TechDeft
Profile Joined August 2010
United States211 Posts
September 21 2010 16:35 GMT
#482
On September 22 2010 01:30 Geisterkarle wrote:
I see two problems:

1. What abput players, that are actually really good but decided that they don't want to ladder and just play custom games against (also high level) buddies! They would be forced to go against their will and ladder just to discuss in these threads!

2. What exactly should these subforums be all about?

i.e. if this is to discuss strategies on a "high level" ... well just being good doesn't mean you have "full" knowledge of the game and be a good strategist!
There are definitely players out there that "see" instantly positive and negative sides of new strategies and can elaborate about them ... but as a player don't have the micro/macro/multitasking skills to back them up! (if I want to brag I could say, that I'm one of them...)
On the other side there are players, that are really good in making strategies work ... but are too "stupid" for own ideas and can't see key points in before someone else tells them so! (my favorite in this direction would propably be the well known "kolll"!)

so there are a lot of problems...

Which is why the participants should be mod/community chosen.
imaROBOT
Profile Joined August 2010
United States81 Posts
September 21 2010 16:36 GMT
#483
I think this is such a great idea. You can already see useless post and people trolling. I do believe it would be very hard to get a forum created that only allows access if you are at a certain point level. If possible, though I think TL should get on this idea. It's also going to hurt a lot of the guys that are not at that level, but I think the good that would come out of it out weighs that.

Or.. At least TL needs to ramp up the modding on the forums.. removing bad threads, banning trolls, warning whiners.. ect.
co$.imaROBOT.Church of $in - Protoss
TechDeft
Profile Joined August 2010
United States211 Posts
September 21 2010 16:39 GMT
#484
On September 22 2010 01:36 imaROBOT wrote:
I think this is such a great idea. You can already see useless post and people trolling. I do believe it would be very hard to get a forum created that only allows access if you are at a certain point level. If possible, though I think TL should get on this idea. It's also going to hurt a lot of the guys that are not at that level, but I think the good that would come out of it out weighs that.

Or.. At least TL needs to ramp up the modding on the forums.. removing bad threads, banning trolls, warning whiners.. ect.

NO POINTS. What don't people get about points having very little to do with actual skill or ability to discuss things in an informative manner?! How many people post here everyday saying I'm 1x00 diamond, here is what I think...and it's a bunch of nonsensical bullshit.
speedphlux
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria962 Posts
September 21 2010 16:47 GMT
#485
I'd hate to see such thing being implemented around here.

As Day[9] proved in Day[9] Daily #182, even a "not-so-hot" player can come up with an interesting build order or a technique.
Myself personally doesn't even play SC2 right now, but I love reading strategy discussions. I do stay my noobish ass out of them thou. Not because I got nothing to say, but because someone already said it before me.

I would agree (somewhat) with "you need n points in Diamond League in order to reply to this tread", but I would hate it if I see a "you need n points in Diamond League in order to read in this forum".
... Humanity Is Not What I Suffer From ...
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
September 21 2010 16:54 GMT
#486
In the 1.1.0 patch notes thread:
On September 22 2010 01:53 bonifaceviii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 01:51 landaishan wrote:
all of these posters make me wanna quit teamliquid

You know what, this thread has convinced me that maybe the high-level only forum is a good idea

Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
September 21 2010 16:54 GMT
#487
I don't think high level players would post more if there was such a rule.

I'm ok with it because I don't really care too much ><
Revolutionist fan
crimsonsentinel
Profile Joined April 2010
United States179 Posts
September 21 2010 16:56 GMT
#488
The problem with a ratings determined forum is that Blizzard doesn't release matchmaking ratings and the points of each player inflates because of bonus pool so the cutoff has to be changed weekly, which might be a pain. I like the idea though.
trevabob
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom350 Posts
September 21 2010 17:09 GMT
#489
I think that this is generally a bad idea as it is exclusive and is generally against the ethos of TL (as TL staff have stated on several occasions).
Even if such a system was to be created, it should be on an invitational basis with posters chosen by the TL staff rather than something based on the abortion of a league system set up by blizzard.
SnakeChomp
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada125 Posts
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#490
The problem with this idea is that it is implicitly assuming that anyone who is high up on the ladder is able to coherently communicate ideas, can spell and use punctuation properly and also has an understanding of the game. Any four gating protoss can get high up enough on the ladder to qualify to post in the elitist sub forum, but chances are they won't have an in depth understanding of the game (cause four gating is just so easy according to Day9 ) and their ladder rank has no correlation with their ability to post coherently or to spell.

I don't see how you can seriously consider this idea given that all it will accomplish is to give tl.net an elitist reputation without any real benefits. Sure, there will be a random subforum with a smaller amount of posts and therefore a smaller amount of bad posts than the main forum, but the percentage of bad posts to quality posts is not likely to improve.

If you want some way to highlight posters who make quality posts, there should be some sort of system like on the b.net forums where you can rate up/down posts. Rating up someones post should give that person points which can be made visible to identify the quality posters from the trollers.
-fj.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Samoa462 Posts
September 21 2010 17:44 GMT
#491
As much as "we hate elitism here at teamliquid", there is no question that the way the game is played changes across the massive range of skill levels. For that reason I would support splitting up the strategy section into subforums for beginners, intermediates, and experts. That said, I don't think there has to be a hard ladder rank limitation. Possibly a soft guideline, but that's all. I don't expect many bad players to venture into the Expert forum anyway, and if they do, it can't be that hard to moderate.
dinmsab
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Malaysia2246 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 18:23:27
September 21 2010 17:48 GMT
#492
On September 22 2010 02:31 SnakeChomp wrote:
The problem with this idea is that it is implicitly assuming that anyone who is high up on the ladder is able to coherently communicate ideas, can spell and use punctuation properly and also has an understanding of the game. Any four gating protoss can get high up enough on the ladder to qualify to post in the elitist sub forum, but chances are they won't have an in depth understanding of the game (cause four gating is just so easy according to Day9 ) and their ladder rank has no correlation with their ability to post coherently or to spell.

I don't see how you can seriously consider this idea given that all it will accomplish is to give tl.net an elitist reputation without any real benefits. Sure, there will be a random subforum with a smaller amount of posts and therefore a smaller amount of bad posts than the main forum, but the percentage of bad posts to quality posts is not likely to improve.

If you want some way to highlight posters who make quality posts, there should be some sort of system like on the b.net forums where you can rate up/down posts. Rating up someones post should give that person points which can be made visible to identify the quality posters from the trollers.


I don't know where you people get the funny idea that you can 4gate your way up to 1200 points. Seriously, what kind of rainbow ladder are you guys playing? If such a thing is even possible then why the hell isn't everyone a 1200 point toss? Why the hell aren't YOU a 1200 point toss? Come on, seriously.. we all know 4 gate is a decently easy to pull off strat and sure it can amazing, but against decent terrans who know when to scan and put down bunkers.. its a pretty balance build and I doubt anyone could reach 1200 points with this single strat.

..
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
September 21 2010 17:50 GMT
#493
that is such a dumb idea.
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
September 21 2010 18:10 GMT
#494
I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm not sure how I feel about it overall. I like the idea of having a league tag next to your name in strategy threads, but it also kinda adds this level of elitism that I'm not sure really fits here.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
September 21 2010 18:12 GMT
#495
I love this idea and I greatly support it. Keep these forums for public posters, but add a "elite" forum for high ranked player ONLY post but for everyone to read.
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
skeldark
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2223 Posts
September 21 2010 18:13 GMT
#496
On September 22 2010 02:48 dinmsab wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 02:31 SnakeChomp wrote:
The problem with this idea is that it is implicitly assuming that anyone who is high up on the ladder is able to coherently communicate ideas, can spell and use punctuation properly and also has an understanding of the game. Any four gating protoss can get high up enough on the ladder to qualify to post in the elitist sub forum, but chances are they won't have an in depth understanding of the game (cause four gating is just so easy according to Day9 ) and their ladder rank has no correlation with their ability to post coherently or to spell.

I don't see how you can seriously consider this idea given that all it will accomplish is to give tl.net an elitist reputation without any real benefits. Sure, there will be a random subforum with a smaller amount of posts and therefore a smaller amount of bad posts than the main forum, but the percentage of bad posts to quality posts is not likely to improve.

If you want some way to highlight posters who make quality posts, there should be some sort of system like on the b.net forums where you can rate up/down posts. Rating up someones post should give that person points which can be made visible to identify the quality posters from the trollers.


I don't know where you people get the funny idea that you can 4gate your way up to 1200 points. Seriously, what kind of rainbow ladder are you guys playing? If such a thing is even possible then why the hell isn't everyone a 1200 point toss? Why the hell are aren't YOU a 1200 point toss? Come on, seriously.. we all know 4 gate is a decently easy to pull off strat and sure it can amazing, but against decent terrans who know when to scan and put down bunkers.. its a pretty balance build and I doubt anyone could reach 1200 points with this single strat.


day 9 said so and you know : if day9 say something everyone of lower level believe it whatever he say.....
Save gaming: kill esport
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
September 21 2010 18:34 GMT
#497
I think I like the idea, but the more important poll is how many pros would actually participate, and I also agree that points probably aren't a good measurement. But I would seriously love a forum full of real pro level discussions of builds and strategies. I'm sure they already have these discussions over msn or skype or whatever, but they probably feel that their wisdom is wasted here. Then again perhaps stricter moderating and a little respectful deference from the community could solve the problem too. But trolls will be trolls, I don't know if we can hope to solve the internets overnight.

Also, OP, sorry to knitpick but it's something I see SO often it drives me crazy, nothing personal I promise. "Definitely" and "Defiantly" are completely different words with completely different meanings. If English isn't your first language then no big deal, I totally understand that it's easy to mix up, but this is so common all over the Internet, even my online college classes which is especially tragic, it drives me nuts. /rant
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 18:35:34
September 21 2010 18:34 GMT
#498
On September 22 2010 01:35 TechDeft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 01:30 Geisterkarle wrote:
I see two problems:

1. What abput players, that are actually really good but decided that they don't want to ladder and just play custom games against (also high level) buddies! They would be forced to go against their will and ladder just to discuss in these threads!

2. What exactly should these subforums be all about?

i.e. if this is to discuss strategies on a "high level" ... well just being good doesn't mean you have "full" knowledge of the game and be a good strategist!
There are definitely players out there that "see" instantly positive and negative sides of new strategies and can elaborate about them ... but as a player don't have the micro/macro/multitasking skills to back them up! (if I want to brag I could say, that I'm one of them...)
On the other side there are players, that are really good in making strategies work ... but are too "stupid" for own ideas and can't see key points in before someone else tells them so! (my favorite in this direction would propably be the well known "kolll"!)

so there are a lot of problems...

Which is why the participants should be mod/community chosen.

Do you really think there is no "TL guild section" here which is invisible to non-TL-guildees, where the guild discusses its own tactics? Strategies and discussing builds is VERY IMPORTANT and that is one of the things EVERYONE in a professional team will keep secret! So no "high level players" will post there anyways on strategies. The only things - which are happening already - are things like posts in whine-threads about balance and they dont really matter.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
McFoo
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom180 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 18:42:04
September 21 2010 18:38 GMT
#499
On September 21 2010 04:17 Karthane wrote:
I'd be up for having a sub forum that only "pros" can post in, just to have all their posts in one place and to be able to easily look at their strats/thoughts etc. But i think these people should not be just over 1200 rating. I think the TL staff should designate who they think should be able to post there. Hopefully people like IdrA, Huk, LzGaMeR, etc.


Yes, the only valid version of this would be a subforum that allowed professionals to post in for the benefit of the amateurs. Having 'X' number of points doesn't qualify you as an enlightened poster imo.

edit: how would this work logistically? Would Nazgul ask Blizzard if they could do a deal such that your TL account was linked with your bnet account? Sounds farfetched to me. There is no way to verify if a poster is who he says he is: welcome to the internet.
charlie420247
Profile Joined November 2009
United States692 Posts
September 21 2010 18:41 GMT
#500
i think even 1k pts would work fine for illiminating the total scrubs. actually even 700 shows good understanding of the game. from there on up its all about improving handspeed and reaction time.
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who dont.
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