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Imo the only way would be an invite system by TL.net staff. The upper point limit changes all the time so saying a point limit is meaningless. This could make TL even more of a SC hub imo as it would probably result in some really golden threads that could be transformed into quality Liquipedia pages for strategies and such. Basically it would just be a super (Okay maybe not super, but quite) clever way for TL to lure the pros back with promises of them being "special" so that they produce awesome content for everyone else to enjoy! Muhahahaha (and they can enjoy being special, so everyone wins) :D
1. Give special rights to pros
2. Get resurgence of pro strat posting
3. ???
4. Profit!
Pro should be semi liberally used though, as some of the best threads so far have been from relatively unknown posters imo, like the 5 roach rush thread and tricks like the Fazing and the minboost trick. Maybe it could be an apply system like the Stream thing where you could send in Strategy OPs and if they are good, you could be accepted into the awesomesauce club? Strategy has too much of a Q and A feel atm, instead of it being discussion of good strategies and so on (I`ll stop here as this is preaching to the choir)
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this was discussed in bw too and the final resolution was that low level players could get good advice from good players if the forums were all the same and that some things could be pointed out by lower level players that could be beneficial to good players.
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On September 22 2010 03:42 Malminos wrote:
How is a forum that only pros can read or write beneficial to the community as a whole, at all?
You'll note the bulk of votes are for allowing anyone to read.
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TL just needs more mods imo. like someone to move this thread into website feedback.
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There for sure should be like a 1500+ forum, why not? Is it "rude" to accept the fact that higher ranked players have better opinions? I am only 1000~ pts and I know any advice I give isn't that great compared to what a really experienced player would give, and given how not everyone signs their posts with "btw i'm n points," either for hassle or desire to not come off as a jackass and get banned or flamed, it would be definitely useful.
A forum only pros can even READ would be pretty lame though, and I can see how that would go against TL's ideals. However, a forum only "pros" can contribute to would be a GREAT place to filter out quality opinions backed by experience, not theorycraft or bias (as much, at least).
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I'm a scrub - but I think high level discussion section is definitely good just to see what they think, I would however like read access to it.
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On September 22 2010 06:06 Hawk wrote:
I was originally for the pro forum or whatever, but it would be such a very small community, and that would prevent the very rare new poster/low ranking guy who has a valid point from contributing. I think those people are few and far between, but you should at least have the opportunity to prove that you aren't an idiot...
I'm sure there would still be an open normal strategy forum new people can post in. More people would quickly realize how terrible and misleading newbie information can be and why a pro forum is needed. If someone has worthwhile information worth posting, then they should have a decent point ranking and have access already.
There will always be bads that wont deserve to make the cut for the Pro forum, but then at least the bads wont outnumber the decent pros 10:1 like how its happening right now in the SC2 Strat forum.
The only people left that would decline this idea are bads who think they are hot shit when their not and are terrified their coveted 1000pt diamond rank wont vouch for anything anymore.
More refined legit strategy posts= more improvement from lower ranked players, instead of reading misleading information from a terribad that's gotten into diamond cheesing/only allining and posting trash info on the forums about it.
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I would just love to have high level debates free of dumb arguments from guys who played 50games of ladder and claim stupid stuff about units or strat they have played against once or twice.
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On September 22 2010 13:59 Mecha71 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 06:06 Hawk wrote:
I was originally for the pro forum or whatever, but it would be such a very small community, and that would prevent the very rare new poster/low ranking guy who has a valid point from contributing. I think those people are few and far between, but you should at least have the opportunity to prove that you aren't an idiot... I'm sure there would still be an open normal strategy forum new people can post in. More people would quickly realize how terrible and misleading newbie information can be and why a pro forum is needed. If someone has worthwhile information worth posting, then they should have a decent point ranking and have access already. There will always be bads that wont deserve to make the cut for the Pro forum, but then at least the bads wont outnumber the decent pros 10:1 like how its happening right now in the SC2 Strat forum. The only people left that would decline this idea are bads who think they are hot shit when their not and are terrified their coveted 1000pt diamond rank wont vouch for anything anymore. More refined legit strategy posts= more improvement from lower ranked players, instead of reading misleading information from a terribad that's gotten into diamond cheesing/only allining and posting trash info on the forums about it.
I thought this too, but think about how small the pro strat forum would be (and yes, there would obviously be the normal one too). But think how small of a pool it is. Diamond is about 6-7% of the population on every server. Of that, high diamond (like 1000+) is a fraction of that number. And not every one of those people posts on TL, so cut that number some more.
That's the reason why I'd prefer super nazi moderation over a separate forum. There would only be so many posts.
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This will just support mass gamers and exclude them from those with a normal "circle of life".
Just to think about people who are still pretty good players and have a lot of experience when it comes to Starcraft and RTS, but...
are casters and simply dont have time to play
are organizers of a team or league and mainly play custom games
are in semi-good teams who prefer spending time on refining their builds instead of grinding games vs random players of really different quality
are having a demanding job or are moving a lot, so basicly are smart but just dont have obviously the opportunity to "mass game"
etc. pp
So basicly what will happen is, that it excludes some trolls PROPABLY, and if I see some 1k+ players who basicly know nothing about the game except the time period of a 4 gate or 5 rax all-in thats just a vast minority. What it exlcudes for sure is players who actually CARE about the community, doing useful stuff like torunaments, teams, casts or whatever content instead of just grinding posts on tl.net.
Furthermore it just makes an "elitist" group up (of people who propably arent) and excludes people from content, which is, basicly just one thing: discrimination.
I utterly shocked how many people support that, I am sorry, obvious crap without any further thought. I know the quality of this is not like wikipedia, simply because this is a private moderated INTERNET forum. If you want to do something against it rather donate to the tl.net staff and help them by getting more moderators that can help cleaning out useless content in everyones interests. That would be a much more wise solution - in my opinion.
Edit: to clarify - "excluding from content" also includes also giving feedback and opinions, of course.
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A pro forum that only pros could read and post into would be kind of pointless imo. TL is a huge community. Though I do like the idea of a forum that only pros can post so the rest of us can read and educate ourselves.
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Point inflation would be a problem but thank God we have R1CH on our team heh :p
Im for this idea, but 1200 point is faaar from pro level... But yeah, it would create good discussions
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On September 22 2010 22:47 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 13:59 Mecha71 wrote:On September 22 2010 06:06 Hawk wrote:
I was originally for the pro forum or whatever, but it would be such a very small community, and that would prevent the very rare new poster/low ranking guy who has a valid point from contributing. I think those people are few and far between, but you should at least have the opportunity to prove that you aren't an idiot... I'm sure there would still be an open normal strategy forum new people can post in. More people would quickly realize how terrible and misleading newbie information can be and why a pro forum is needed. If someone has worthwhile information worth posting, then they should have a decent point ranking and have access already. There will always be bads that wont deserve to make the cut for the Pro forum, but then at least the bads wont outnumber the decent pros 10:1 like how its happening right now in the SC2 Strat forum. The only people left that would decline this idea are bads who think they are hot shit when their not and are terrified their coveted 1000pt diamond rank wont vouch for anything anymore. More refined legit strategy posts= more improvement from lower ranked players, instead of reading misleading information from a terribad that's gotten into diamond cheesing/only allining and posting trash info on the forums about it. I thought this too, but think about how small the pro strat forum would be (and yes, there would obviously be the normal one too). But think how small of a pool it is. Diamond is about 6-7% of the population on every server. Of that, high diamond (like 1000+) is a fraction of that number. And not every one of those people posts on TL, so cut that number some more. That's the reason why I'd prefer super nazi moderation over a separate forum. There would only be so many posts.
I actually remember a Poll somewhere that finished with something like half of TL being in diamond.. can't remember, but someone can always hold a Poll again.
I'm for this idea. Would reduce the time it takes me to wade through all the bronzies posts etc to get to the 'good stuff'.
Honestly the cut-off should be even higher.. I remember seeing 2 posts on b.net forums one posting that Thors should have an aoe slow ability to catch muta...and another one posting that banelings should be nerfed because "Zerg just a-moves them thus requiring no micro". I was like "lol haha bronze leaguer" - went and looked it up on sc2ranks. They were both ~800 diamond players -_____-"
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
I would like to see a pro only board. Could be very interesting to read what they think about the game without troll spams in between.
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"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
It is detrimental to the community to silence or exclude opinions from those that are perceived with lesser abilities. Silencing others invalidates your own opinions.
I will not participate in a community, in gaming, real life or otherwise that segregates and censors the opinion of some of their members base on perceived ability.
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if 1200+ is progamer status I should be winning some GSL Prelims...
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Has anyone actually asked these high level players whether they'd actually use the forum being proposed? Are these guys really going to discover some cool new trick then rush to TL to tell everyone about it? Are they going to want to post there knowing that their every word is going to be parroted by 100 other people in the "normal people" forums?
Frankly I'd be more interested in a strategy forum where you can't post without attaching a relevant replay to your reply ... even if said replay is on YABOT or Unit Tester.
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I voted for the 1200+ thing, but I think it should actually be like 1500+ or something, cuz 1200 aint THAT hard to reach and I dont consider myself worthy of writing there^^
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On September 22 2010 22:59 GoDannY wrote:
This will just support mass gamers and exclude them from those with a normal "circle of life".
Just to think about people who are still pretty good players and have a lot of experience when it comes to Starcraft and RTS, but...
are casters and simply dont have time to play
are organizers of a team or league and mainly play custom games
are in semi-good teams who prefer spending time on refining their builds instead of grinding games vs random players of really different quality
are having a demanding job or are moving a lot, so basicly are smart but just dont have obviously the opportunity to "mass game"
etc. pp
So basicly what will happen is, that it excludes some trolls PROPABLY, and if I see some 1k+ players who basicly know nothing about the game except the time period of a 4 gate or 5 rax all-in thats just a vast minority.
The idea is not to ban sub-1200 point players from the forums, its only the super awesome pro stategy subforums we're talking about here that will exclude newer players from participating. For bronze level discussions their is still the regular strat forums and thus everyone should be happy!
As for casters/organizers.. they've done their part in the community, and many people respect them for that.. but the fact remains if they suck at the game then they have no say in a legit strategy discussion. As for people who are 9999 point players but don't play ladder.. come on seriously do people believe this? If you're that damn good then just play 40 ladder games and you should be up in 1200 in no time. 40 games isn't a huge deal really, especially if its spread over a long period of time.
And NO, you just can't reach 1200ish with mastering 5rax/4 gate alone. These are silly rumors spread by people who can't even reach gold. If you disagree, then be a 4 gate abuser and I will welcome your legit comments in the newer strat forums.
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It would be like the gladiator only section on arenajunkies.com. I'm all for it!
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EPT
