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On September 21 2010 10:27 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 05:08 TechDeft wrote:On September 21 2010 05:06 Tabbris wrote:On September 21 2010 05:02 Fantistic wrote:
This idea will cause a lot of us to feel left out of discussions.
Then again, we can watch IdrA and LaLuSh make MorroW look stupid again. Thread? Also Progamers seem to argue alot amongst eachother on whats viable or not. Its not like they will be some perfect intellectual conversation on starcraft if this happens But just WATCHING this kind of conversation can be so educational. We don't know everything, neither do they, but by discussing it, they can come to much more meaningful conclusions than someone with 25 games under their belt who's trying to argue that an Ultra rush is a viable early game Zerg strat. *going back to the dawing board* 
Hehe
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there is no reason for not letting non pros read those articles...i would stop using tl if this was the case. i think it would lead to a forum that tl never wants it to be.
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On September 21 2010 19:54 Qikz wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.
You can't just balance the game around the top players, you need to take a broad look over everyone. Like for instance Brood War if it was still being updated, Jaedong does this ridiculous strat which only Flash can hold it off, but any zerg in the world could feasebly do it, that should be nerfed. Just because one person/a few top players can hold it off, doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed to help the wider sense of the audience who play the game for fun.
This doesn't make any sense. Jaedong can only do this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level, and flash can defend this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level. Conclusion: No nerf needed, game is balanced at their skill level. If the strat was easy to do and terrans were getting smashed in all skill levels.. then yes it would be nerfed.
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On September 21 2010 21:36 shynee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 19:54 Qikz wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.
You can't just balance the game around the top players, you need to take a broad look over everyone. Like for instance Brood War if it was still being updated, Jaedong does this ridiculous strat which only Flash can hold it off, but any zerg in the world could feasebly do it, that should be nerfed. Just because one person/a few top players can hold it off, doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed to help the wider sense of the audience who play the game for fun. This doesn't make any sense. Jaedong can only do this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level, and flash can defend this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level. Conclusion: No nerf needed, game is balanced at their skill level. If the trick was easy to do and terrans were getting smashed.. then yes it would be nerfed.
Sounds to me like he's saying that Jaedong just invents it, and 'everyone' can execute it but only Flash has the skills to hold it off.
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I doubt any of the top players would even use it, personally. They'd be in a forum full of people who think they're on the same level as them. At least the way we have it now, when people see a big name contradict them, they know they should probably be quiet.
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The forum regulars have mentioned this has come up before and been quashed. Will that be the case this time with the wide support it's getting?
A lot of you regulars were complaining about the "WoW Players"...if those are the only people who seem to be getting offended, would it be the end of the world if they were scared off pre-Cata? This is closer to Elitist Jerks than WoW.com, and right now all the wow.com'ers are the ones creating "meaningful" threads.
I'm new here, but I'm here to learn. I'd love to be able to see a high level discussion take place.
They don't have to agree, they don't have to be civil. I don't care. I just want to absorb their deep understanding of the game.
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I both agree and disagree with the winning option in the poll.
I get amazing value in listening to high level discussions. I am not at their level, I dont expect my opinion to be taken under the same weight. If there is a high level discussion forum, I would LOVE for it to be read only to lower level players. As in, all the 1200+ diamonds get to post and have their discussion, but everyone can still read it. Just those who don't meet requirements, can't respond and contribute to the discussion. (Also can't derail the discussion)
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On September 21 2010 21:38 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 21:36 shynee wrote:On September 21 2010 19:54 Qikz wrote:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.
You can't just balance the game around the top players, you need to take a broad look over everyone. Like for instance Brood War if it was still being updated, Jaedong does this ridiculous strat which only Flash can hold it off, but any zerg in the world could feasebly do it, that should be nerfed. Just because one person/a few top players can hold it off, doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed to help the wider sense of the audience who play the game for fun. This doesn't make any sense. Jaedong can only do this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level, and flash can defend this ridiculous strat because of his insane skill level. Conclusion: No nerf needed, game is balanced at their skill level. If the trick was easy to do and terrans were getting smashed.. then yes it would be nerfed. Sounds to me like he's saying that Jaedong just invents it, and 'everyone' can execute it but only Flash has the skills to hold it off.
Yea but thats not true because the strat is not easy to execute, otherwise toss and terran would be losing all the time. Top level zergs can execute it and top level terran/toss can stop it. So yes.. you do balance a game predominantly around the best players. I'm sure marauders are owning toss and zerg in Bronze early game rushes but you wont see blizzard nerfing them because good players know how to deal with it. Pros are having problems with zealot 2 gate pressure in ZvP, that is why that is getting nerfed. So are the tanks. Bronze players are still having problems with baneling busts but that also will not be nerfed because there is a legit strategy to deal with it.
Because pro players slowly perfect their game, things reach an equilibrium and every strategy has a viable counter, or way to deal with. Now lets say a pro player does a strat that 80% of pros cannot stop, this disrupts the equilibrium of the game and needs to be addressed.
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I don't agree with this at all. I don't Have the time to get to 1200 diamond, much less the time to maintain it. Any spare time I have is spent watching vods or reading through tl. I don't think it is fair that we who have diamond knowledge get grouped with the noobies only because we're time constrained.
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This is a community site, leave it the way it is, what you're suggesting won't be implemented anyway.
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On September 21 2010 21:51 Reubachi wrote:
I don't agree with this at all. I don't Have the time to get to 1200 diamond, much less the time to maintain it. Any spare time I have is spent watching vods or reading through tl. I don't think it is fair that we who have diamond knowledge get grouped with the noobies only because we're time constrained.
But then we also have the point that most low-level players THINK that they have the knowledge of a high Diamond player.
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On September 21 2010 15:16 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 15:14 BadWithNames wrote:
In my experience the "pro" only forum doesn't work. In order to have successful communication it's up to the whole of the community to stop and think about what they post. Everyone has to hold themselves to a high standard of quality, and when that standard of quality isn't met the mods should step in and remind everyone.
Why does it start at the ground up? Because making a place where the "shitty threads" theoretically can't be posted isn't going to stop the shit threads from being posted elsewhere, in the end you're treating the symptoms and not the problem. What's "your experience?" This system worked absolute wonders for arenajunkies
It did not work for Arena Junkis, Hell it doesn't work at all.
I played at 1300-1500 Protoss and I got bored of it so I switched to Zerg, on another account, and I'm having trouble breaking 900~ points due to the idiocy of the ladder and 1 base plays. But to my point: if you want to stop idiots posting, you ban them. You aren't going to get rid of idiots by enforcing silly restrictments. As I said earlier in the thread- I have multiple friends who play this game and, specifically my partner, uses my AJ account, my Cataclysm Alpha/Beta account, my FF14 Beta account, my [Banned] Elitist Jerks account and no doubt when I'm invited to Diablo IIIs closed Alpha I'll let him play on that. He's my partner, of course I'm going to shit him access to everything. My partner plays at a silver level because he dislikes RTS games.
Do you see the problem? Impose a restriction. Iditos can still post because of account sharing.
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On September 21 2010 21:51 Reubachi wrote:
I don't agree with this at all. I don't Have the time to get to 1200 diamond, much less the time to maintain it. Any spare time I have is spent watching vods or reading through tl. I don't think it is fair that we who have diamond knowledge get grouped with the noobies only because we're time constrained.
I agree with this part. I think that to post you should need more than BNet ladder credentials.
I really believe that TL should chose an initial pool with 2-3+ players of each race that the TL staff agrees are above and beyond as far as theory and game knowledge goes.
Then there could be regular polls(hosted in the subforum only, for players who want to see it), asking what new discussionators we would like to try and invite to add to the mix.
That way we don't get random bads with 12 hours a day to grind their points.
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On September 21 2010 21:56 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 15:16 -orb- wrote:On September 21 2010 15:14 BadWithNames wrote:
In my experience the "pro" only forum doesn't work. In order to have successful communication it's up to the whole of the community to stop and think about what they post. Everyone has to hold themselves to a high standard of quality, and when that standard of quality isn't met the mods should step in and remind everyone.
Why does it start at the ground up? Because making a place where the "shitty threads" theoretically can't be posted isn't going to stop the shit threads from being posted elsewhere, in the end you're treating the symptoms and not the problem. What's "your experience?" This system worked absolute wonders for arenajunkies It did not work for Arena Junkis, Hell it doesn't work at all. I played at 1300-1500 Protoss and I got bored of it so I switched to Zerg, on another account, and I'm having trouble breaking 900~ points due to the idiocy of the ladder and 1 base plays. But to my point: if you want to stop idiots posting, you ban them. You aren't going to get rid of idiots by enforcing silly restrictments. As I said earlier in the thread- I have multiple friends who play this game and, specifically my partner, uses my AJ account, my Cataclysm Alpha/Beta account, my FF14 Beta account, my [Banned] Elitist Jerks account and no doubt when I'm invited to Diablo IIIs closed Alpha I'll let him play on that. He's my partner, of course I'm going to shit him access to everything. My partner plays at a silver level because he dislikes RTS games. Do you see the problem? Impose a restriction. Iditos can still post because of account sharing. Yea, the problem is people like you account sharing. Still irrelevant if you use my idea of community chosen people.
Beyond that, why would folks like you want to share your account name and poison the discussion forum?
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I would have thought a more viable and easy alternative would be banning people for low quality posts which do not align with reality. If someone is trying to claim something far outside the norm I was under the impression that they had to provide proof.
Instead of top players getting frustrated at having to argue with bronze level players constantly (some of whom are probably 1200+ Diamond players anyway), just ban these people for making outrageous claims without the requisite proof.
I understood this was a requirement of these forums in any case.
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On September 21 2010 21:56 TechDeft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 21:51 Reubachi wrote:
I don't agree with this at all. I don't Have the time to get to 1200 diamond, much less the time to maintain it. Any spare time I have is spent watching vods or reading through tl. I don't think it is fair that we who have diamond knowledge get grouped with the noobies only because we're time constrained. I agree with this part. I think that to post you should need more than BNet ladder credentials. I really believe that TL should chose an initial pool with 2-3+ players of each race that the TL staff agrees are above and beyond as far as theory and game knowledge goes. Then there could be regular polls(hosted in the subforum only, for players who want to see it), asking what new discussionators we would like to try and invite to add to the mix. That way we don't get random bads with 12 hours a day to grind their points.
If you play 2 hours a day you can reach 1200 points. I have. And if you dont play much, then you wont even have the experience to post in a "high level strat forum". You should be posting in the regular strat forum. Watching VODs and replays and playing against players who are below 1000+ diamond isn't the same as playing against other 1500+ diamond level players. Not to sound cold but I wouldn't want to read your strategy.
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On September 21 2010 21:57 TechDeft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 21:56 Cranberries wrote:On September 21 2010 15:16 -orb- wrote:On September 21 2010 15:14 BadWithNames wrote:
In my experience the "pro" only forum doesn't work. In order to have successful communication it's up to the whole of the community to stop and think about what they post. Everyone has to hold themselves to a high standard of quality, and when that standard of quality isn't met the mods should step in and remind everyone.
Why does it start at the ground up? Because making a place where the "shitty threads" theoretically can't be posted isn't going to stop the shit threads from being posted elsewhere, in the end you're treating the symptoms and not the problem. What's "your experience?" This system worked absolute wonders for arenajunkies It did not work for Arena Junkis, Hell it doesn't work at all. I played at 1300-1500 Protoss and I got bored of it so I switched to Zerg, on another account, and I'm having trouble breaking 900~ points due to the idiocy of the ladder and 1 base plays. But to my point: if you want to stop idiots posting, you ban them. You aren't going to get rid of idiots by enforcing silly restrictments. As I said earlier in the thread- I have multiple friends who play this game and, specifically my partner, uses my AJ account, my Cataclysm Alpha/Beta account, my FF14 Beta account, my [Banned] Elitist Jerks account and no doubt when I'm invited to Diablo IIIs closed Alpha I'll let him play on that. He's my partner, of course I'm going to shit him access to everything. My partner plays at a silver level because he dislikes RTS games. Do you see the problem? Impose a restriction. Iditos can still post because of account sharing. Yea, the problem is people like you account sharing. Still irrelevant if you use my idea of community chosen people. Beyond that, why would folks like you want to share your account name and poison the discussion forum?
I care more what my partner thinks of me rather than an internet society I'll never meet and probably wouldn't want to meet? Also, your idea is totally stupid.
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IMO, the problem is there is a ton of players with X amount of points in diamond that makes them think they are top tier and understand the game or even good when in reality they are pretty awful. You might aswell leave it be. Odds are all the top players will have each others msn and discuss stuff there
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Well yeah I know most golds think they're diamond, however there's no way to weed them out without screwing a lot of people. The best thing to do wod be what someone else said and to just create a new sub forum, and let people vote on who gets in based on renown.
Edit: and I CAN'T even play two hours a day to getto 1200  . (also please mind my spelling mistakes, I'm in class)
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On September 21 2010 22:00 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 21:57 TechDeft wrote:On September 21 2010 21:56 Cranberries wrote:On September 21 2010 15:16 -orb- wrote:On September 21 2010 15:14 BadWithNames wrote:
In my experience the "pro" only forum doesn't work. In order to have successful communication it's up to the whole of the community to stop and think about what they post. Everyone has to hold themselves to a high standard of quality, and when that standard of quality isn't met the mods should step in and remind everyone.
Why does it start at the ground up? Because making a place where the "shitty threads" theoretically can't be posted isn't going to stop the shit threads from being posted elsewhere, in the end you're treating the symptoms and not the problem. What's "your experience?" This system worked absolute wonders for arenajunkies It did not work for Arena Junkis, Hell it doesn't work at all. I played at 1300-1500 Protoss and I got bored of it so I switched to Zerg, on another account, and I'm having trouble breaking 900~ points due to the idiocy of the ladder and 1 base plays. But to my point: if you want to stop idiots posting, you ban them. You aren't going to get rid of idiots by enforcing silly restrictments. As I said earlier in the thread- I have multiple friends who play this game and, specifically my partner, uses my AJ account, my Cataclysm Alpha/Beta account, my FF14 Beta account, my [Banned] Elitist Jerks account and no doubt when I'm invited to Diablo IIIs closed Alpha I'll let him play on that. He's my partner, of course I'm going to shit him access to everything. My partner plays at a silver level because he dislikes RTS games. Do you see the problem? Impose a restriction. Iditos can still post because of account sharing. Yea, the problem is people like you account sharing. Still irrelevant if you use my idea of community chosen people. Beyond that, why would folks like you want to share your account name and poison the discussion forum? I care more what my partner thinks of me rather than an internet society I'll never meet and probably wouldn't want to meet? Also, your idea is totally stupid.
If you care more about what your friends think, than why are you even having this discussion? How would it affect you? I get the impression you wouldn't be posting in the subforum anyway.
My idea is great actually, unless you have noticed some glaring hole in it. Otherwise, it's apparent you are just taking digs without anything to back it up.
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EPT
