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On September 15 2010 23:52 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:37 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:35 ilbh wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. if it wasn't for the whining, blizzard wouldn't even know about the balance issues. I simply disagree. Blizzard isn't stupid. You think they don't keep up with the tournament results just like we do? Are you kidding? A majority of whiny TL regulars yelling "IMBA" doesn't make it true, and Blizzard knows this best of all, simply by watching bw evolve over the years... It still is evolving! WITH NO CHANGES. What a surprise. You are wrong. There are regular changes in BW that greatly affect balance. Changes in map pool, that is. Balancing through map changes isn't good idea for SC2 though, cause that will have negative impact on map pool diversity.
You are wrong.
Blizzard is changing DO next patch, and therefore we are likely to see other map changes in the future.
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On September 15 2010 23:56 ltortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:52 InRaged wrote:On September 15 2010 23:37 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:35 ilbh wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. if it wasn't for the whining, blizzard wouldn't even know about the balance issues. I simply disagree. Blizzard isn't stupid. You think they don't keep up with the tournament results just like we do? Are you kidding? A majority of whiny TL regulars yelling "IMBA" doesn't make it true, and Blizzard knows this best of all, simply by watching bw evolve over the years... It still is evolving! WITH NO CHANGES. What a surprise. You are wrong. There are regular changes in BW that greatly affect balance. Changes in map pool, that is. Balancing through map changes isn't good idea for SC2 though, cause that will have negative impact on map pool diversity. You are wrong. Blizzard is changing DO next patch, and therefore we are likely to see other map changes in the future.
Regardless of how many or what kind of map changes we're likely or not likely to see in the future, that doesn't really change the fact that he rebutted your 'without changes' point, such as it was.
And I think there would be a lot less 'whining' in these forums if Terran players would just accept the imbalance, accept that it's going to be discussed, and get over it. If it were accepted as established fact then there would be no reason to argue and therefore less posts wasted on it. But that's obviously not going to happen, because there's always going to be that special kind of player who can never accept that his faction is the one with the problems.
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On September 16 2010 00:52 Karkadinn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:56 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:52 InRaged wrote:On September 15 2010 23:37 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:35 ilbh wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. if it wasn't for the whining, blizzard wouldn't even know about the balance issues. I simply disagree. Blizzard isn't stupid. You think they don't keep up with the tournament results just like we do? Are you kidding? A majority of whiny TL regulars yelling "IMBA" doesn't make it true, and Blizzard knows this best of all, simply by watching bw evolve over the years... It still is evolving! WITH NO CHANGES. What a surprise. You are wrong. There are regular changes in BW that greatly affect balance. Changes in map pool, that is. Balancing through map changes isn't good idea for SC2 though, cause that will have negative impact on map pool diversity. You are wrong. Blizzard is changing DO next patch, and therefore we are likely to see other map changes in the future. Regardless of how many or what kind of map changes we're likely or not likely to see in the future, that doesn't really change the fact that he rebutted your 'without changes' point, such as it was. And I think there would be a lot less 'whining' in these forums if Terran players would just accept the imbalance, accept that it's going to be discussed, and get over it. If it were accepted as established fact then there would be no reason to argue and therefore less posts wasted on it. But that's obviously not going to happen, because there's always going to be that special kind of player who can never accept that his faction is the one with the problems.
He didn't refute anything.
Even holding maps a constant factor, there were power shifts between the races in bw, WITH ZERO CHANGES.
I think it also takes a special kind of player who, instead of trying to improve, tries to get the game to change around their whims so that they can win more. Bad attitude.
The game WILL become more and more balanced as time goes on. Blizzard doesn't neglect their games. So instead of putting all this energy into whining that doesn't help anything except justify your own crappiness as a player, you could be playing the game and trying to improve.
Speaking of which, I'm going to go play SC2.
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On September 15 2010 23:31 ltortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:24 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. Personally I'm just as sick of the people constantly QQing about QQing and whining about whining. Don't try and act like you're any better. A lot of people are trying to have reasonable discussions about balance and comments like these don't contribute anything. Let Blizzard do the balancing. They're the professionals and the ones who made BW. Nobody wants the game balanced more than Blizzard.
You seem to be under the impression that Blizzard balanced Starcraft 1. They did to a certain extent improve the balance through patches and the expansion. With those changes they eliminated the most obvious imbalances, but the game was still far from balanced.
What actually made BW balanced was the Korean map making scene.
Do you honestly believe that the game would be balanced if we were still playing on Blizzard maps?
So no, Blizzard does not have awesome magical powers when it comes to balancing games. However, I do believe that they will eventually manage to make sc2 a very balanced game, but they will need the help of the community. Pretty much all top zerg players and even a good number of terrans agree that terran is too strong and zerg too weak.
If people didn't complain about balance, it would be much harder for Blizzard to actually notice that there is a problem and where it lies. Their internal statistics will certainly help with balancing, but statistics alone don't tell the whole story, so the input from the users, particularly the top players is very valuable.
Aside from that, complaining about imbalance makes you feel much better than just bottling up that anger inside of you 
And trust me, when you play zerg and keep losing to inferior players, you will get angry from time to time.
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I think Mana won the go4sc cup twice? (vs naama and vs sjow)
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ROFL dimaga is the light ! but really , whens he gonna switch to terran ?? being the best zerg in europe wont mean much to his sponsors if hes not winning ):
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On September 16 2010 01:54 T0fuuu wrote:
ROFL dimaga is the light ! but really , whens he gonna switch to terran ?? being the best zerg in europe wont mean much to his sponsors if hes not winning ):
after the GSL i think he said, unless they fix whatever it is he wants to be fixed.
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On September 15 2010 22:40 Rev0lution wrote:
The game is balanced, don't question Blizzard. The game is balanced, don't question Blizzard. The game is balanced, don't question Blizzard. The game is balanced, don't question Blizzard. The game is balanced, don't question Blizzard.
Chill out, Browder.
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On September 16 2010 01:02 ltortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 00:52 Karkadinn wrote:On September 15 2010 23:56 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:52 InRaged wrote:On September 15 2010 23:37 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:35 ilbh wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. if it wasn't for the whining, blizzard wouldn't even know about the balance issues. I simply disagree. Blizzard isn't stupid. You think they don't keep up with the tournament results just like we do? Are you kidding? A majority of whiny TL regulars yelling "IMBA" doesn't make it true, and Blizzard knows this best of all, simply by watching bw evolve over the years... It still is evolving! WITH NO CHANGES. What a surprise. You are wrong. There are regular changes in BW that greatly affect balance. Changes in map pool, that is. Balancing through map changes isn't good idea for SC2 though, cause that will have negative impact on map pool diversity. You are wrong. Blizzard is changing DO next patch, and therefore we are likely to see other map changes in the future. Regardless of how many or what kind of map changes we're likely or not likely to see in the future, that doesn't really change the fact that he rebutted your 'without changes' point, such as it was. And I think there would be a lot less 'whining' in these forums if Terran players would just accept the imbalance, accept that it's going to be discussed, and get over it. If it were accepted as established fact then there would be no reason to argue and therefore less posts wasted on it. But that's obviously not going to happen, because there's always going to be that special kind of player who can never accept that his faction is the one with the problems. He didn't refute anything. Even holding maps a constant factor, there were power shifts between the races in bw, WITH ZERO CHANGES. I think it also takes a special kind of player who, instead of trying to improve, tries to get the game to change around their whims so that they can win more. Bad attitude. The game WILL become more and more balanced as time goes on. Blizzard doesn't neglect their games. So instead of putting all this energy into whining that doesn't help anything except justify your own crappiness as a player, you could be playing the game and trying to improve. Speaking of which, I'm going to go play SC2.
There's an interesting power shift at the moment. Terran is going from dominant to ultra-super-dominant.
If you read the post you quote, the reason for all the whining is that there's no consensus about the balance, there are always players who deny any problem. And it just makes people whine even more, and they will continue until everyone agrees there's a problem.
Telling people to improve won't change anything as well. Everyone can improve. But a lot of people don't necessarily want to improve, they want to have fun and play a fair game. There's no fun in a "broken" game. Not to mention that Zerg is already hard/unfriendly to play, if they are less strong as well no wonder people cry.
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I posted this information on the Terran forums (lol) and the post had a TON of reads and a TON of replies.. i think it was on page 7 today.
Then when I go to look for it.. its gone. deleted.
Thats great... really great... Looks like we hit a soft spot on the blizzard armor.
This is where it was: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628237958
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zog is right,
if people wouldnt deny the imbalance, then everyone would just say, yay, we know, hope it gets fixed.
but nothing makes someone more rageous than a player playing some imbashit is completely sure, that he is only winning because its his mighty skills that beat the other players.
if anyone would just say, yup, its imbalanced, it could be changed that and that way it would all be more constructive that way.
the only people holding this process back are those, like, naaaaahhhhhhhh, every terran is great, all zergs and tosses suck. just let yourself get raped over the next 2 years by a-click and see how the metagame evolves.
edit: yeah mana won go4sc, go to gosugamers and read the comments there -.-
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terran is OP, end of story.
now let's talk balancing or stfu
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On September 15 2010 05:09 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:31 Pwere wrote:On September 15 2010 03:57 dudeman001 wrote:
Next, we look at how many pages of players you get when you search for Diamond players in North America by race.
Zerg: 78
Protoss: 116
Terran: 281
Based on those numbers alone, there are more than twice as many Terran players that Protoss players, and about 3.6 Terran players for each Zerg player. Huh, there are 101 pages of terran, not 281. 116 P, 101 T, 78 Z Total: 336 So... yeah, there goes your point. http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/us/diamond/1/terran/points/0 I don't know why but the number of pages has fluctuated for me from 281 to 230 and during the process of writing this post it jumped down to 101. Obviously what I was looking at before was bugged somehow, and the numbers I got before were completely messed up. That being said my previous post is now worthless and so pretty much disregard it completely.
There is already a page with the statistics you want to see:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/us/1
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/all/1
Notice how in diamond the higher the rank, the higher terran representation.
That means, T is being pushed up in the ladder, whereas Z and P are being pushed down.
Either better players choose to play Terran, or Terran is imba. Or both.
On September 15 2010 21:47 Elwar wrote:
Isn't the GSL been played via LAN? Couldn't Blizzard patch SC2 to 1.1 but the GSL still play on the current patch?
Pretty sure thats how it should work anyway.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 15 2010 23:25 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. Yeah, but it's way more fun for all the Zerg's getting sick of SC2 itself because it's so frustrating to loose to inferior players.... -.-° You don't have to read the post's after all and still have lots and lots of fun trolling around in this forum, now what are Zerg-players gonna do - Play the campaign? Switch races to the IMBA or the easy-race? I wanna play Zerg but I want them to be balanced and everyone who cared about the game at all, wants it to be balanced as well.
Agreed, there's no worse feeling after finishing a game, and watching the rep, only to find out how much worse your opponent was. You think it was close, but he was actually floating 5k mins half the time. You think he had godly macro, only to find out half the times his production building wasn't building, the other half he had 5 queued units. You think he had good game sense scanning your banelings, only to find out he just had 200/200 energy. You think he was constantly building scv's to match your economy...no he just mule'd. You see his army rips into your army, thinking he must've had awesome micro...but he just a-moved, and didn't even look at the battle. You think he went for a really fast thor drop....but it turns out he built the tech-lab on the starport by accident.
I know I can improve if I watch my own ZvT reps...it's just so painful to watch.
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On September 14 2010 01:45 Bibdy wrote:
Top players would probably be interested in them if they didn't suck.
The very top (<0.01%) have this natural aversion to shifting towards whatever will garner them the most success and consistency.
I'm sure a lot of those top guys have played all of the races to death and just eventually settled on whichever one they felt most comfortable with.
Lo and behold, most of them like the safety and consistency of having powerful, cheap units and absurd levels of defense that can keep you in the game with ease if you're falling behind.
their race provided them the means to reach the top naturally, tis not a decisive swap
On September 16 2010 19:30 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:25 kickinhead wrote:On September 15 2010 23:18 ltortoise wrote:On September 15 2010 23:16 tomatriedes wrote:On September 15 2010 22:59 ltortoise wrote:
How long has BW been considered balanced, now?
How many times has racial power shifted? MANY TIMES, without changes to the game.
All the IMBA QQ is really pissing me off.
If you can't handle a race having a (PROBABLY TEMPORARY) advantage, you shouldn't be playing RTS, as this always always always happens, even in the most balanced games possible like BW. Of course there are power shifts within RTSes once they are balanced but that doesn't mean sometimes real imbalances don't exist either. Especially when the game hasn't even been patched post-release yet. Continuously whining about it doesn't help anything. It just turns the forums into an unreadable shithole. I can't be the only one sick of seeing every other thread degenerate into ___ IS IMBA. Yeah, but it's way more fun for all the Zerg's getting sick of SC2 itself because it's so frustrating to loose to inferior players.... -.-° You don't have to read the post's after all and still have lots and lots of fun trolling around in this forum, now what are Zerg-players gonna do - Play the campaign? Switch races to the IMBA or the easy-race? I wanna play Zerg but I want them to be balanced and everyone who cared about the game at all, wants it to be balanced as well. Agreed, there's no worse feeling after finishing a game, and watching the rep, only to find out how much worse your opponent was. You think it was close, but he was actually floating 5k mins half the time. You think he had godly macro, only to find out half the times his production building wasn't building, the other half he had 5 queued units. You think he had good game sense scanning your banelings, only to find out he just had 200/200 energy. You think he was constantly building scv's to match your economy...no he just mule'd. You see his army rips into your army, thinking he must've had awesome micro...but he just a-moved, and didn't even look at the battle. You think he went for a really fast thor drop....but it turns out he built the tech-lab on the starport by accident. I know I can improve if I watch my own ZvT reps...it's just so painful to watch.
oh man thats one epically true statement, kudos for the viewpoint
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Morrow,
please switch. zerg has such a lack of players, "high skill level" or not. but also, prove everyone wrong. show us that zerg can win tournaments.
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On September 16 2010 20:56 a176 wrote:
Morrow,
please switch. zerg has such a lack of players, "high skill level" or not. but also, prove everyone wrong. show us that zerg can win tournaments.
lol, a notable terran player switching to zerg. That'll be the day.
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On September 16 2010 21:41 DTown wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 20:56 a176 wrote:
Morrow,
please switch. zerg has such a lack of players, "high skill level" or not. but also, prove everyone wrong. show us that zerg can win tournaments. lol, a notable terran player switching to zerg. That'll be the day.
And if he did and he would win the same amount of tournaments what would that prove?
Im betting the zerg whiners will still go "ooooooh but he is just one player with imbawtfpwnage 300000000 apm and skillz like god thats why he can win with Zerg...."
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Zerg is so much harder to play. I would like to see if morrow would be as good if he were playing zerg. i dont believe it.
Recently someone told me how easy it is to counter High Templars as Zerg.
All we have to do is, besides flanking the opponent and watch out where we fight because of bad designed maps and reproducing drones and units, just FG the Templar group, FG the Blink Stalkers, NP 1-2 HT and Storm the group.
sounds awesome if i only had 2 more hands to do this.
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On September 16 2010 21:55 sadyque wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 21:41 DTown wrote:On September 16 2010 20:56 a176 wrote:
Morrow,
please switch. zerg has such a lack of players, "high skill level" or not. but also, prove everyone wrong. show us that zerg can win tournaments. lol, a notable terran player switching to zerg. That'll be the day. And if he did and he would win the same amount of tournaments what would that prove? Im betting the zerg whiners will still go "ooooooh but he is just one player with imbawtfpwnage 300000000 apm and skillz like god thats why he can win with Zerg...."
lol
morrow wins a single prized tournament with zerg and ill never say the word balance again
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EPT![[image loading]](http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/coolface.jpg)
