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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On September 16 2010 22:27 sadyque wrote: I soo wish that would happen but i srsly doubt it...(the morrow go zerg and win part..) He'll never switch to Zerg. Although, I'd like to see him try so when he inevitably fails, we can laugh at him. | ||
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cromat
Afghanistan100 Posts
On September 17 2010 16:20 Fantistic wrote: He'll never switch to Zerg. Although, I'd like to see him try so when he inevitably fails, we can laugh at him. he's not going to try, because he will fail and people will laugh seriously if he's going to say that terran isn't imba and zerg isn't UP then he better be able to back up his words by playing or eat them | ||
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Tamotab
France38 Posts
On September 16 2010 18:46 Nocawy wrote: There is already a page with the statistics you want to see: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/us/1 http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/all/1 Notice how in diamond the higher the rank, the higher terran representation. That means, T is being pushed up in the ladder, whereas Z and P are being pushed down. Either better players choose to play Terran, or Terran is imba. Or both. These stats don't mean anything, only 20% play Zerg on Battle.net and if you look at these stats : http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/1/all Zerg has actually the best win ratio ! The quite few tournaments won by zerg players, is much more relevant imho. I think there is a balance issue (Zerg is UP), but a few minor changes should be enough to solve that. | ||
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Creep
United States229 Posts
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
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dekwaz
Thailand61 Posts
Background info before any flames: Played RTS for a while in SC1 but went awol for god how many years, didn't play in beta, started in bronze(SEA), researched,practiced, played, got bumped to silver in a newly created division (Happiest SC2 day so far, pathetic but still) I appreciated the 'balance' of SC1 from afar - Any game that spawns pro leagues, weekly tournaments, televised events all over the world gets my thumbs up. It was basically unheard of. When I came back for SC2 naturally I played Terran - because of the campaign and looked like kinda 'safe'. Then the campaign introduce me to Protoss, I was hooked. So I chose to play Protoss as my main. For a game to be 'balanced' between races, it should mean that races should be balanced in all departments, meaning that similar leveled players with different races should be able to compete against each other as equals. That means with similar armies noob vs noob should be able to enjoy the game and have a fair fight. You can see I'm comparing noobs. That means that noobs constantly supply blocking themselves, forgetting to build workers, etc. should still be able to meet on equal terms. Terran's problem right now is that the options for attack, harrass and defense are too numerous. Look I've heard it all before, scout scout scout. I've gotten better but in PvT, I HAVE to open gate-core because of the threat of fast reaper. I've scouted my opponents wall off with 2 depots and a rax+tech lab. So what next, reaper or marauder? Then play blind for a couple of minutes because there's no telling what's going on behind the block off. Until I get observer or until his army rushes me. Maybe he even tech switched and I got the counters wrong. Terrans have many options to scout with scan being the most depressing for other races. P and Z have two ways to scout or detect, 1 mobile 1 static. Scan is instant with no threat to the terran at all. So say noobs are playing against each other. The terran doesn't scout (after confirming the location of his opponent or they're playing on a 1v1 map) and uses the 1-1-1 build with wall off. Then he justs remembers to scout and boom, throws down a scan. Cool, the Z has a Roach Warren should I banshee or marauder? Forgive me if I got the counters wrong, like I said I'm a noob also. What I'm trying to say is from my example the Terran race can screw up, but they can better adapt to the situation than the other two races. This is no way a post to devalue or knock any of the Terran players skills or achievements, but sometimes it's like bringing a short sword to a battle against a sword (I'm not using a knife as an example here because it's too extreme it's not that imba folks). At first I thought that this only occurred in the lower leagues and that the level of play in the diamonds and pros would be different. I'm not saying the OP's data is concrete and we should blindly believe it but wow. Lets move away from the noobs to the pros. Pros are paid for playing and winning and entertaining. Repeat, paid. Some are using gaming as their sole purpose of income. So it makes sense that pros would choose the option that would give them the most chance to win. I don't know Dimaga (did I spell it wrong?) but I think he once said that he was thinking of switching races because gaming was his way of life and he was afraid of losing sponsors (you can correct this for me if I got it wrong)? If this game was truly balanced I think the proportion of race for contestants in pro tournaments would be roughly equal. I may have missed data on the contestants but from the data of the winners, the statistics are pretty sad, especially for Zerg. Even Protoss numbers pale in comparison to Terrans. Please do not flame to say that Terran players are better. Remember that these are pros that we are talking about, those who practice and compete way more than the normal person. So I would say their actions skills and knowledge would be about the same. So why don't pros gravitate to Zerg more? I think in SC1 the race of the winners were more evenly balanced than this. Remember that the higher number of race selected the more likely you'll get that race as a winner. There is something wrong currently with this game and I do hope that Blizzard does balance this out a little, though I am really confused, for such a long wait and beta period they still got some things wrong. I for one think that victory achieved when playing against a similarly skilled player and with balanced tools (races) is the most satisfying. Winning with both a skill and instrument advantage is the least. So if anyone truly takes pride in what they do, they would WANT to say that yeah I went up against a good Zerg (or Protoss) there was no handicap, and I beat him. Borrowing a phrase that I really like "Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good" Not saying that Terrans have no honor but wouldn't you like to mop the floor with your opponent with him not having any excuses? Fix the game somehow, I think SC2 has the potential to be better than SC1. That's my opinion, thank you. | ||
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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
On September 16 2010 22:05 IdrA wrote: lol morrow wins a single prized tournament with zerg and ill never say the word balance again If morrow doesnt want to do it, you could always try it yourself and win a prized tournament with terran, seeing that its so OP it should be pretty easy right? Just an ideia. On September 15 2010 23:25 kickinhead wrote: Yeah, but it's way more fun for all the Zerg's getting sick of SC2 itself because it's so frustrating to loose to inferior players.... -.-° Typical Zerg mentality " i am actually gosu but because Terran is easy mode and OP i dont win games". I have yet to see a game were Zerg lose to an "inferior" player without making key mistakes that actualy cost him the game, be it vs either terran or protoss. Also lol at randoms bashing at Morrow | ||
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
no zerg mentality, its the mentality of peops who arent staring through pink glasses. | ||
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
On September 17 2010 16:08 me_viet wrote: Lol i'm not even sure I follow these arguments anymore. I just really wanna see a ZvT with Morrow vs Idra except with off-race =P Yes, this would be very entertaining! | ||
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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
On September 17 2010 21:59 in7e.sCream wrote: ah now i get it all terrans are pro kekekeke. just think about idra being a progamer in korea for the last year ( mb 2 ?), loosing to a semi-okay a-ranked bw player. i sure believe that relies to idra isnt training and playing right huh? no zerg mentality, its the mentality of peops who arent staring through pink glasses. Yes, fanboy just because you like him it automaticly makes him better than any other player. Dont really get were you saw in my post that i think all terrans are pro, what i said is that zergs think they are pro but are stuck with an UP race. Interpret it however you like but i dont see Fruitseller for example struggling with these issues. | ||
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in7e.sCream
Germany48 Posts
btw iam not that big idra fan cause he is a bit too bm imo. its just kinda obvious that peops like him would never loose to players like morrow~~ iam out like camping. | ||
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
On September 16 2010 19:30 me_viet wrote: Agreed, there's no worse feeling after finishing a game, and watching the rep, only to find out how much worse your opponent was. You think it was close, but he was actually floating 5k mins half the time. You think he had godly macro, only to find out half the times his production building wasn't building, the other half he had 5 queued units. You think he had good game sense scanning your banelings, only to find out he just had 200/200 energy. You think he was constantly building scv's to match your economy...no he just mule'd. You see his army rips into your army, thinking he must've had awesome micro...but he just a-moved, and didn't even look at the battle. You think he went for a really fast thor drop....but it turns out he built the tech-lab on the starport by accident. I know I can improve if I watch my own ZvT reps...it's just so painful to watch. i found this entertaining to say the least! lol | ||
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
Ban Type: Spamming / Trolling Expires: Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:54:21 PM UTC (in 1 day, 21 hours) Ban Reason: Suspended from the Battle.Net forums for for one or more of the following: spamming, trolling, & re-posting a moderated thread. "The last post was deleted.. not sure why.. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628237958 (cant be found.. really?) Anyway, just in case that was a mistake to delete a perfectly good post that broke no rules, I'll post it again.. Maybe it was a database error.. maybe it was an attempt to supress this information.. Tournament wins by race: Terran - 51 Protoss - 22 Zerg - 4 Tournament winners by race: Terran - 22 Protoss- 12 Zerg - 2 Blizzard, if you deleted this post can you at least send me an email explaining why? That is really offensive to me that you would do this considering this is a *discussion* board. Thanks and please leave this one alone, it spurs great debates." GG? | ||
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
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Karkadinn
United States132 Posts
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Squirrel
United States1102 Posts
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AzureD
United States320 Posts
On September 17 2010 17:18 Tamotab wrote: These stats don't mean anything, only 20% play Zerg on Battle.net and if you look at these stats : http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/1/all Zerg has actually the best win ratio ! The quite few tournaments won by zerg players, is much more relevant imho. I think there is a balance issue (Zerg is UP), but a few minor changes should be enough to solve that. It is actually win% that is meaningless in these statistics. Current system just matches you up with worse players. This also accounts for there being so few Zerg in the higher ranks. However even your statistic is bias. Zerg actually have the worst win% in diamond at 54.03%. Well to be truthful Random has slightly worse win%. You can not say these stats do not mean anything when Terran is so high up in the rankings. They are extremely high yet not the most numerous. http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/all/1 http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/500 Interestingly Zerg is above Protoss in Diamond Korea with Terrans lording over with an overwhelming lead. http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/kr/1 | ||
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
On September 17 2010 12:38 EliteAzn wrote: Wrote this in the battle.net forums (because there are so many genius there (rolls eyes). ANYWAYS, I thought that I made a legitimate point that shows that the "since more terran play, they should win more" is a stupid excuse. I'm just wondering if there's a legitimate reason that proves me wrong (which I really do want to know...) Anyways...here: so basically, it shouldn't matter whether there are more or less of one race in tournaments because they are usually even in number (sorry I don't have proof and this is one weak point in my argument). Also, 20% of Diamond players are Zerg, so why don't zerg players win 20% of all tournaments? Also, winning percentage found at sc2ranks and other sites are kinda useless because it doesn't say the ranking of their opponents who they beat. Therefore, it can easily be Terrans killing all the equal rank Zergs, and Zergs killing the lower rank Terrans (lower rank because they lose, then they lower in rank, and play worse players). Also, a small change can make a huge difference, we just won't know until people test it out. We have to trust blizzard, and we have to be PATIENT | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On September 18 2010 00:31 Alexstrasas wrote: Yes, fanboy just because you like him it automaticly makes him better than any other player. Dont really get were you saw in my post that i think all terrans are pro, what i said is that zergs think they are pro but are stuck with an UP race. Interpret it however you like but i dont see Fruitseller for example struggling with these issues. Fruitseller said himself that Zerg is clearly UP. All Zergs, regardless of their skill level, say Zerg is UP. IdrA, Dimaga and Cool all think the same. We don't think we're pro but we know that we shouldn't be losing to the players which we're currently losing to. | ||
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
On September 18 2010 00:31 Alexstrasas wrote: Yes, fanboy just because you like him it automaticly makes him better than any other player. Dont really get were you saw in my post that i think all terrans are pro, what i said is that zergs think they are pro but are stuck with an UP race. Interpret it however you like but i dont see Fruitseller for example struggling with these issues. You do not see "Fruitseller" expressing his concerns because he expressed them as oGsCool. He was the Zerg who said that "Zerg can not win against Protoss" because of the econ damage a 2gate does to a Zerg. He even went to say that he was practicing mainly protoss for a while, he is just more well versed as Zerg which is why he is competing as Zerg. I will edit this with the link and to fix grammar. Edit: Found the interview I was looking for. + Show Spoiler + I heard Zerg is a very hard race to play with. Even with the other races, i am quite confident that i can beat good zerg players. Thats how hard zerg is. Unlike other races, zerg's main powers are yet to be established. Its not bad but as you transition into mid-late games, its very hard to stand toe to toe with armies of the other races. from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146893 | ||
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