EPTThe stats are hilarious tho.
Tournament winners since release - Page 18
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
The stats are hilarious tho. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
This won't matter a few days from now. | ||
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Bull-Demon
United States582 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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funcmode
Australia720 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:22 SichuanPanda wrote: Well I'd say its safe to assume many of the T players in that list would not be T provided it wasn't the strongest the of the three races. Or rather, they just wouldn't be on the list in the first place  | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:25 TitleRug wrote: Why bother with these statistics when a patch is coming out this month? This won't matter a few days from now. Because the patch won't really change anything for zerg in the MU they struggle most. (imo) The reaper build-time okay, but it was never really about the speed that reapers came into play, if I was doing this for ZvT I would have lengthened the time for the reaper speed, since that does matter to zerg. The siege tank nerf? the moment tanks have +1 they will still/always oneshot blings/lings like they used to do. It only makes a difference for hydra's, but there are other reasons why this unit doesn't get used a lot (blueflame hellions/thors/creep/movement speed). And then a slight nerf to ultra dmg. I don't see in what way it is really gonna improve this mu, except for maybe very early tank/marine pushes becoming less common or delayed (to get +1). I mean, I can get that the changes are bigger for ZvP, depending on how 2 gate timings will work out and the zealot change buildtime, but I just dont' see how this patch will actually change things in ZvT. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:32 Icx wrote: Because the patch won't really change anything for zerg in the MU they struggle most. (imo) The reaper build-time okay, but it was never really about the speed that reapers came into play, if I was doing this for ZvT I would have lengthened the time for the reaper speed, since that does matter to zerg. The siege tank nerf? the moment tanks have +1 they will still/always oneshot blings/lings like they used to do. It only makes a difference for hydra's, but there are other reasons why this unit doesn't get used a lot (blueflame hellions/thors/creep/movement speed). And then a slight nerf to ultra dmg. I don't see in what way it is really gonna improve this mu, except for maybe very early tank/marine pushes becoming less common or delayed (to get +1). I mean, I can get that the changes are bigger for ZvP, depending on how 2 gate timings will work out and the zealot change buildtime, but I just dont' see how this patch will actually change things in ZvT. What I'm saying is we won't know if zerg will stay UP until the patch happens and we get new statistics. Who knows.. nerfing siege tanks might actualy swing the favors. edit: to avoid double posting I agree with this as well On September 14 2010 12:35 Sfydjklm wrote: i can only hope the patch is delayed because they are implementing more changed that they originally disclosed. Otherwise it will be protoss time for me i think. I cant wait another 6 months for a proper zerg buff/terran nerf. and this On September 14 2010 12:39 Bull-Demon wrote: They gave a list of the changes but it isn't necessarily everything they were planning to change. In fact I'm quite positive they said there are other changes in store (probably very minor however) that could help zerg out. I think it lies in the zerg early game. Terran gets away with a lot of shit since you can't punish with ling/roaches through their wall. Not without going allin anyways. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
Otherwise it will be protoss time for me i think. I cant wait another 6 months for a proper zerg buff/terran nerf. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
As a point of comparison, what were the overall tournament entries for all of those (as in, round of 64 for all those tournaments). And Dimaga is amazingly good. Not saying he should be beating Morrow, but he shouldn't be below that many Terran. It would be nice to see more maps, bigger more open ones might do a fair bit to change those stats. | ||
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Bull-Demon
United States582 Posts
I think it lies in the zerg early game. Terran gets away with a lot of shit since you can't punish with ling/roaches through their wall. Not without going allin anyways. | ||
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:09 SichuanPanda wrote: Stop holding the game back people, please. Terran players are more than happy to hold back the game if it means they win more. Especially punks like Morrow, because he wins cash from it :D | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:48 CScythe wrote: Terran players are more than happy to hold back the game if it means they win more. Especially punks like Morrow, because he wins cash from it :D na morrow is just imba like that. | ||
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samhuan
15 Posts
They only have to struggle in TvT and even there its far from a skilled game, otherwise demuslim couldnt win more in his one month sc2 career then in his entire wc3 pro career, where he was a mediocre player which never won a single tournament as far as i know, that shows how random and replacable the most terrans tournament winners are. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On September 14 2010 10:22 MorroW wrote: ah thank you, im happy i could find at least 1 comment like this on 14 pages  its annoying me so much that everyone talk so much about imbalancewe have no zerg players in general. who used to win as zerg when zerg was OP? like dimaga, who else ? haypro and zpux? i cant even name any other zergs that were on top of their game... we simply have few zergs participating in each tour and i think thats a bigger factor than the actual imbalance i almost wanna switch to zerg just to show it is possible, its not a coincidence dimaga is by far best zerg atm, he simply has alot more skills than the other zergs. i pity these lower level players that blame their losses on imbalance when dimaga still manages to win. we have 30 terrans who can fight nicely on the top in tvt but who can compete in zvz? the skill gap is huge there and so few players... It seems odd that you keep mentioning Dimaga when he was so adamant about Terran being better. I do not just play Starcraft 2 for fun, it is my JOB. The image and the popularity of the team depend on my results, and so I must do whatever is necessary to make my team the best. Unfortunately, in the present balance situation regarding Zerg, I cannot achieve good results for my team. Blizzard's inaction only further fuels the fire. Because of these reasons, unless there is at least an announcement of the new patch after GOM TV Global Starcraft II League and IEM Global Challenge Gamescom, I am going to switch from my precious Zerg to the more successful Terran. He had a change of heart after he had a good performance in the IEM, but even monster Zergs like him know that something is wrong. Imbalance issues aside, there absolutely needs to be more incentive to play Zerg. I love watching SC2, probably even more than I like playing it, and seeing results like this just makes me sad :[ watching 15 TvT's in a tournament is not fun, or entertaining. This is so so bad for the e-sports scene. If heavy Terran tournaments keep happening then fewer and fewer people are going to be watching, which means less sponsors. Make the zerg race more fun to play, make them more competitive with the other races if that's what it takes, but with the recent trend I fear for the appeal of SC2 to viewers. Check this thread out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150965. It's a rather small sample size due to not many people voting, but Zerg seems to be the most fun to watch, and Terran the least favorite. | ||
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:23 Gomas wrote: I have to agree with Morrow. Name me some zergs which are on same level as Dimaga or Idra IN ZVZ (!). None? Great. Now remember all these TvTs u watched in go4scs and ZOTACs? Yeah the ones u all complain about. Tarson winning with Cloud. Morrow losing to Demuslim. Strelok winning with SjoW. I could go on. There is at least 30 names which can easily compete with eachother, when it comes to T. All that shows, is that there is more good T players atm. Tbh, i have not yet seen a single zerg apart from Idra (not even dimaga), with macro so perfect like morrows. There is tons of queing going on. Mineral floats etc, all the time. While the Ts (especially morrow) have perfect thought-out builds with 0 quening going on, perfect expansion and depot timings etc. I have yet to see a zerg buildorder as refined as morrows 5 rax reaper or his TvP 2rax FE. For me, this is the main reason the zerg lose, not imbalance. Your post reeks of Bronze level logic. Your first sentence effectively discredit all notable names such as Sen, Sheth, LaLush, Day9 (not sure if he still plays Z), JooktuJong, all the OgS Zerg players, and a few more I can't remember (oh and MadFrog). Alot of these guys had backgrounds in Sc:BW or were well-regarded in other RTS. Now, let's be honest, who's heard of Silver before he/she caused Idra to rage in the IEM? Looking at the list, there are heaps of T names I don't recognize (who the hell is MuRdeR?) Fits perfectly the point of having Random no-name T players taking down known Z/P players. I am very interested in who these 30 T names that can compete with each other are. The fact you referenced 30 known T names is a problem in itself. Not disrespecting Morrow, but please show me a replay where Morrow makes ZERO macro mistakes. It's not possible. There is also a rumour (I have not seen source) that Morrow was taught the 5rax reapers by Dimaga, a Z player, within 1hr. The fact that Zerg has no build-order 'as refined as morrows" is a source of imbalance itself. The fact is, Zerg CAN"T have a perfectly refined BO past when to get hatch/pool. It is noobie Bronze non-Zerg players like you that gets me on edge, coming in here bashing down on Idra or any Top Zerg player for not having a refined build. What the fuck do you think he does with his time in korea? Play WoW? TLDR: this is a rage post against a bronze noobie who dares say that Zerg players don't try hard enough to 'refine their Build Orders". EDIT: http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/291211/Gomas is that you Gomas? My apologies, you're actually silver. not bad. now get to diamond b4 you attempt to bash on Idra and co. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
I think I'm gonna make a LaLush fanclub thread. And I really hope there are more changes in this patch than mentioned. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm already finding Terrans are using way less tank focused builds than before, probably in anticipation of patch. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On September 14 2010 03:56 Backpack wrote: So tournament win statistics after 1.5 months is how we are going to determine balance? *sigh* so are you claiming that tournament win statistics is not a valid method of determining balance or are you claiming that 1.5 months is not long enough to determine balance? Cause really, either claim is pretty ludicrous. Is there some other better way to see which players are top? Is there some magical time limit we have to wait before balance is magically unveiled to us? | ||
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Bubu
Germany29 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:23 Gomas wrote: I have yet to see a zerg buildorder as refined as morrows 5 rax reaper or his TvP 2rax FE. For me, this is the main reason the zerg lose, not imbalance. dont you think that there is something wrong with starcraft 2 when building one unit is enough to beat world-class-players like idra? could you explain "refining" 5 rax reaper? | ||
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illumination
Korea (South)248 Posts
On September 14 2010 10:22 MorroW wrote: ah thank you, im happy i could find at least 1 comment like this on 14 pages its annoying me so much that everyone talk so much about imbalancewe have no zerg players in general. who used to win as zerg when zerg was OP? like dimaga, who else ? haypro and zpux? i cant even name any other zergs that were on top of their game... we simply have few zergs participating in each tour and i think thats a bigger factor than the actual imbalance i almost wanna switch to zerg just to show it is possible, its not a coincidence dimaga is by far best zerg atm, he simply has alot more skills than the other zergs. i pity these lower level players that blame their losses on imbalance when dimaga still manages to win. we have 30 terrans who can fight nicely on the top in tvt but who can compete in zvz? the skill gap is huge there and so few players... I know srsly these zergs are clearly inferior to us terrans. I went on bnet today and got rank 1 with 180-0 cuz im so skilled. It seems as if zerg attracts those of lesser abilities because no1 plays it and they are terrible. Since these whiners are such an nuisance ill teach zerg how to play. 1. pick zerg 2. constantly send overlords into terrans base im talking about 3 at a time every minute, because its cheaper than scan right? 3. nydus in the back of his base AND in the natural AT THE SAME TIME ( yes zerg was designed by M night Shyamalan ) 4. win. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:57ivU19zr8O5WM:http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/dave2233/trollface.jpg&t=1) I am so glad you cleared everything up for us. Because you decide not care about imbalance and just play the game. Except ofcourse when the game was in beta, but that game was zergcraft anyways amirite? Ah i love my profile quote it pretty much sums up everything | ||
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