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On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:U should chill  Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D
Don't terran use reapers/hellions/banshee/meds to scout ?
What kind of 'hard to scout strategies' are you talking about ?
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just look at this honestly.
ignoring all preconceptions of imbalance. if someone completely ignorant of sc2 at all. and just saw these as results. it is OBVOIUS THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG.
if you didnt know what T P Z was. and all you were told is that they are the types of winners for something. you would come to the conclusions that T must be the best to choose if you wanna win.
simple. not needing pages of justification. just simple facts. 2 winners out of 36. TWO!!!!!!!!!
that is like 5-10% WITH ONLY THREE OPTIONS!
you all can spend ages argueing what they mean. or just show the results to a child. their honest innocence allows them to explain what they see, HOW THEY SEE IT. and infact i showed my lil sis these results. you want to know what she said.
"T must be really really good must be the best, is this the olimpics?"
PS lalush. post your posts in this thread on blizz forums. blizz has to act, sc2 will die as an
E-sport if the next time we poll all the tournie results and there is still this kinda of difference in the races.
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On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D
We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't.
Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway.
You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off.
Nevermind the fact that a single reaper is godly at scouting, as well as hellions.
How exactly is it hard for a T to scout Z again?
On September 14 2010 11:56 TyrantPotato wrote:just look at this honestly. ignoring all preconceptions of imbalance. if someone completely ignorant of sc2 at all. and just saw these as results. it is OBVOIUS THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG. if you didnt know what T P Z was. and all you were told is that they are the types of winners for something. you would come to the conclusions that T must be the best to choose if you wanna win. simple. not needing pages of justification. just simple facts. 2 winners out of 36. TWO!!!!!!!!! that is like 5-10% WITH ONLY THREE OPTIONS! you all can spend ages argueing what they mean. or just show the results to a child. their honest innocence allows them to explain what they see, HOW THEY SEE IT. and infact i showed my lil sis these results. you want to know what she said. "T must be really really good must be the best, is this the olimpics?" PS lalush. post your posts in this thread on blizz forums. blizz has to act, sc2 will die as an E-sport if the next time we poll all the tournie results and there is still this kinda of difference in the races.
I actually really like this post and agree with it. Removing all our knowledge of the game entirely, just looking at this entirely at face value, with those kinds of discrepancies its impossible to argue that SOMETHING is amiss. It's just TOO much of a discrepancy.
As you said, a child could figure this out.
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On September 14 2010 11:56 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:On September 14 2010 11:39 Sfydjklm wrote:
You must be mentally challenged.
Now that guy tells me to be inventive? No sir, screw you. U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't. Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway. You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off.
To everyone saying that T is hard to scout - I completely agree.
I'm just saying zerg is equally hard to scout.
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On September 14 2010 11:59 Gomas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:56 Subversion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:On September 14 2010 11:39 Sfydjklm wrote:
You must be mentally challenged.
Now that guy tells me to be inventive? No sir, screw you. U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't. Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway. You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off. To everyone saying that T is hard to scout - I completely agree. I'm just saying zerg is equally hard to scout.
But... how?
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On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D
No i shouldnt chill this forum is plagued by gold level idiots who argue about balance without getting banned.
You are so wrong with every single point you make i cant argue with you. It's like arguing about complex equations with a toddler who just learned how to count to ten.
it's painful to say the least.
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On September 14 2010 11:59 Gomas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:56 Subversion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:On September 14 2010 11:39 Sfydjklm wrote:
You must be mentally challenged.
Now that guy tells me to be inventive? No sir, screw you. U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't. Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway. You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off. To everyone saying that T is hard to scout - I completely agree. I'm just saying zerg is equally hard to scout.
What do you base this on? When terran can wall and snipe overlords with their most basic unit, jump in reapers, scan, or float in a building for a definite scout.
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Guys relax, the game isn't imbalanced. Zerg just need to learn2play. Also, buff Marauders.
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On September 14 2010 11:56 Fitz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:On September 14 2010 11:39 Sfydjklm wrote:
You must be mentally challenged.
Now that guy tells me to be inventive? No sir, screw you. U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D Don't terran use reapers/hellions/banshee/meds to scout ? What kind of 'hard to scout strategies' are you talking about ?
Add in the factory or 150 mineral rax (which is just as fast and much, much stronger than an overlord) that they can use to scout if they somuch as feel like using it.
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On September 14 2010 11:59 Gomas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:56 Subversion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:On September 14 2010 11:39 Sfydjklm wrote:
You must be mentally challenged.
Now that guy tells me to be inventive? No sir, screw you. U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't. Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway. You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off. To everyone saying that T is hard to scout - I completely agree. I'm just saying zerg is equally hard to scout.
There is only ONE building that you "need" to scout. That is the lair/hive which cannot be hidden.
You scan and see only a hatch = all-in, better wall-in well and bunker up for the incoming roach bust/baneling bust.
You scan and see lair = build a few turrets in mineral line for incoming muta harass + maybe make a thor or two. Even if he didn't make any mutas, thors are still great units and turrets are not very expensive.
You scan and see hive morphing or already done = push out and kill him now
Besides that, just keep a tab on his army composition with the reapers/hellions/banshees/drops and keep on building your money mix while taking expos. Of course any decent Terran already knows this, and I'm really just wasting my time here replying to this retarded post.
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On September 14 2010 12:02 CScythe wrote:
Guys relax, the game isn't imbalanced. Zerg just need to learn2play. Also, buff Marauders.
People who legitimately think this need to close their mouths and open their eyes, the more people who refuse to accept there are imbalances the longer its going to take to eliminate them. I understand you were joking (or at least God I hope so) as you actually said BUFF Marauders which is totally laff. In any case the longer people keep dropping the 'L2P nub' excuse in regards to Terran (mostly), or whatever race was imbalanced at the given time of said balance discussion the longer it will take to achieve proper balance. Stop holding the game back people, please.
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passing an elementary statistics class should be a requirement to post on these forums
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On September 14 2010 03:34 kickinhead wrote:Exactly: if they'd use the Nydus Worm properly, there would be ONLY Zerg's winning Tournaments! AND Korean Zergs use Nydus Worm, that's why Zerg wins EVERYTHING in Korea!
LOL this is funny on so many different levels
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On September 14 2010 12:11 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
passing an elementary statistics class should be a requirement to post on these forums
Being able to make a constructive and useful post should be a requirement to post on these forums.
Oh wait, it is. Warning plz.
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On September 14 2010 01:29 TurpinOS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 01:23 Melt wrote:
Wow, thats really nice, great work.
The List really shows that they are far away from a balanced game.
Someone should make sure Blizzard sees this. Hope this was sarcastic, if you really think that the stat shows anything at all on the balance I dont know what to say. (im not debating if there is a balance problem or not here, but that stats without knowing the amount of players of each race doesnt prove nothing at all)
We do know the amount of players of each race. And it's not balanced that there are two zergs in this list.
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I like how people act as though these statistics are like an insanely difficult set of partial differential equations.
I think its quite obvious that these stats confirm the imbalance QQ to some extent.
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best thread i've read in a long time
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On September 14 2010 12:15 skirmisheR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 01:29 TurpinOS wrote:On September 14 2010 01:23 Melt wrote:
Wow, thats really nice, great work.
The List really shows that they are far away from a balanced game.
Someone should make sure Blizzard sees this. Hope this was sarcastic, if you really think that the stat shows anything at all on the balance I dont know what to say. (im not debating if there is a balance problem or not here, but that stats without knowing the amount of players of each race doesnt prove nothing at all) We do know the amount of players of each race. And it's not balanced that there are two zergs in this list.
Well I'd say its safe to assume many of the T players in that list would not be T provided it wasn't the strongest the of the three races.
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On September 14 2010 11:53 Gomas wrote:U should chill Lalush's whole post revolves around the problem with countering different T strategies. I wanna assure u, that from the terran perspective zerg also has many possible and hard to scout startegies. In 99% percent of the cases, zerglings give u full control of the map, and the Ts scouting is reduced to scans. Scans are easily counterable by spreading buildings. The problem of techswitching (or whatever u wanna call what lalush stated) is there with every race. And even more so with zerg. Because they have one production facility. So, for example, I could scan a baneling nest, roach warren and spire. So you could either produce 100 mutalisks, or 100 banelings.Do i make marines?;d And the tech buildings cost u less then terran production buildings. In addition, u are not constrained by the number of production facilities u have, because u have 1 for all units. Therefore I think lalush is wrong in stating that zerg relies on scouting and luck more than other races. Anyway, this is just theory, and I don't really wanna argue, cause you're taking it too seriously. Morrow is a beast. End of story :D
If you scout a barrack with a tech lab (you won't be able to scout much more until T2) you don't know if the T is producing marines, marauders or reapers. And you don't know if the T is producing hellions, tanks or thors. And you don't know if he is producing medivacs, vikings, banshees or ravens. Since you won't be able to scout more than the wall-off barrack until T2 if the T player just places marines to spot overlords. A scan can see exactly which tech buildings there are even in T1 (where you won't tech to roaches AND banelings because then you are dead). But think about this:
A barrack (proxy barrack for floating and scouting) has 5x the HP of an ovie and moves twice as fast. It costs 150 minerals instead of an overlord's 100 minerals. Is that balanced scouting? (I'm talking about T1)
Do you even play in diamond?
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LaLuSh, your posts are an absolute blast to read
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