Tournament winners since release - Page 19

On September 14 2010 11:23 Gomas wrote:
I have to agree with Morrow. Name me some zergs which are on same level as Dimaga or Idra IN ZVZ (!). None? Great.

Now remember all these TvTs u watched in go4scs and ZOTACs? Yeah the ones u all complain about. Tarson winning with Cloud. Morrow losing to Demuslim. Strelok winning with SjoW. I could go on. There is at least 30 names which can easily compete with eachother, when it comes to T.

All that shows, is that there is more good T players atm.

Tbh, i have not yet seen a single zerg apart from Idra (not even dimaga), with macro so perfect like morrows. There is tons of queing going on. Mineral floats etc, all the time. While the Ts (especially morrow) have perfect thought-out builds with 0 quening going on, perfect expansion and depot timings etc.

I have yet to see a zerg buildorder as refined as morrows 5 rax reaper or his TvP 2rax FE. For me, this is the main reason the zerg lose, not imbalance.

On September 14 2010 13:00 me_viet wrote:



Your post reeks of Bronze level logic.

Your first sentence effectively discredit all notable names such as Sen, Sheth, LaLush, Day9 (not sure if he still plays Z), JooktuJong, all the OgS Zerg players, and a few more I can't remember (oh and MadFrog). Alot of these guys had backgrounds in Sc:BW or were well-regarded in other RTS. Now, let's be honest, who's heard of Silver before he/she caused Idra to rage in the IEM? Looking at the list, there are heaps of T names I don't recognize (who the hell is MuRdeR?) Fits perfectly the point of having Random no-name T players taking down known Z/P players.

I am very interested in who these 30 T names that can compete with each other are. The fact you referenced 30 known T names is a problem in itself. Not disrespecting Morrow, but please show me a replay where Morrow makes ZERO macro mistakes. It's not possible.

There is also a rumour (I have not seen source) that Morrow was taught the 5rax reapers by Dimaga, a Z player, within 1hr.

The fact that Zerg has no build-order 'as refined as morrows" is a source of imbalance itself. The fact is, Zerg CAN"T have a perfectly refined BO past when to get hatch/pool. It is noobie Bronze non-Zerg players like you that gets me on edge, coming in here bashing down on Idra or any Top Zerg player for not having a refined build. What the fuck do you think he does with his time in korea? Play WoW?

TLDR: this is a rage post against a bronze noobie who dares say that Zerg players don't try hard enough to 'refine their Build Orders".

EDIT: http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/291211/Gomas is that you Gomas? My apologies, you're actually silver. not bad. now get to diamond b4 you attempt to bash on Idra and co.

On April 11 2010 20:20 MorroW wrote:
well the sad part is that exactly that @Art_of_Kill forces terran to be the offender against zerg and toss while they always just have to defend.
because once u strike 200 psi and both have many expoes, zerg can remkae 50 roaches in 30 seconnds and toss can warpin units in 5 second while terran must build their units

in sc1 terran 200 psi was stronger than toss 200 psi but toss rebuilt faster, so after a battle toss had to rebuild and then wipe out terran

but in sc2 terran 200 psi is weaker and they rebuild alot slower in comparison to production facilities costs

thats why i hope they do something about this because in theory zerg and toss never has to attack the terran because they know they have an easy ride later game. so they can put larva max to half and that wouldnt change alot except for later game where u actually stop make units as z

its very shallow match up if u know lategame terran always lose. maybe u can balance it and say ok terran have to attack and that is balanced, sure but its not so interesting if we always see terran be the attacker. all races should be able to camp, timing attack and be somewhat equal in the late game, but its not like that at all with sc2

On April 14 2010 23:06 MorroW wrote:
i agree with every single thing OP said

and sorry i dont have any advise for u, i dont know a safe way to fe anymore. in patch5 and before i could rax fe then 6-7 i could marauder fe and now i cant fe. i cant do anything and ive tried everything just like u

its not really just the early game, later game i feel like toss can simply get far better economy because his units r very cost effective

and lategame is just ridiculous, if u reach that toss always wins


the only way terran has been able to win this entire beta stage is through early game, as we r getting worse bio and stronger mech we are now in a position where we lose against everything rather than everything being viable.

demuslim is one of the best terrans in the world and if he comes here and says this, its not just that he has been winning because he been spoiled wins by imba. terran has been worst race and we r getting changes but demuslim were one of few terrans who fought the odds of the mus. if u dont understand the level of play i suggest u to just agree with what he says and if u disagree i suggest u to be silent and accept ur the one whos missing something, not demuslim



u cant really know what toss is doing early game, if u spend 50 on a scan to see what his doing (assuming he built every single tech building near the nexus including with gateways) sure u know what he do, but u cant stop it because u just lost ur mule.
if u dont scan u end up in a scenario where either u get a game rolling ur toss rolls over u because he countered ur build and u had no idea whats coming. simply think its ignorant to say its a 50% chance to win in a mu and this is if u know what toss is doing, a good toss wont let u know that and remember toss ALWAYS knows what ur doing. they r the ones with maphack not us so ur scenario is very unrealistic

On April 14 2010 23:21 MorroW wrote:

if u r 1base vs 1base he can make dts and force u to turn back, force u to build turrets and force u to waste at least 1 scan. u cant afford this on 1base and u cant get a raven either, u also cant really contain a toss with a turret and u cant assume hes going dt and get turrets every game. on top of that you also cant scout it.
and as ur paying for all this shit just to survive he can expand and hes in a great shape.
1base vs 1base toss is stronger, its the truth

On April 15 2010 02:01 DeMusliM wrote:
I can tell we just had a huge influx of protoss players join this thread and fail to see the point.

A terran HAS to make a heavy tier 1-1.5 army just to survive the gateway push - with bunkers the whole lot, pumping every resource he has into this. Meanwhile the protoss can easily expo and out resource the terran - this is the problem - that the terran cannot survive early without getting some kinda force together, while the protoss can can tech even, while pumping out 4 warpgates and immortals while the terrans later tech units make little difference - (Immortals counter all ground terran has, and HT's counter anything that counters the immortal - see the problem late game?).

And i'm not even talking about late game, the problem for terrans right now is surviving the early game without being too far behind mid-late. People who fail to see this are enjoying the easy life of 4 warpgate rushing terrans and winning with relative ease.
I spoke with several top protoss players on Europe who all agreed that the MU right now is very heavily favoured towards the protoss - and the only way they lose is if they make a big mistake micro/macro wise or don't scout (pretty hard not to scout with a obs!).

On April 15 2010 02:02 MorroW wrote:

as it is now im pretty sure sc2 wont last in korea, why? koreans love hard games and sc2 doesnt qualify for that afaik :x


this is basically how i was playing before patch 6 was out, it even raped colosus then
the sad part atm is that it doesnt work now, sentry -2 dmg along with immortal and zea meatshield fucking hard rape this build or they can make fast colosus which also rape it. they can even go mass zea sentry and rape it too :/

On April 17 2010 09:26 MorroW wrote:
the goal is just to create a build that survives and puts up a good fight against anything toss does. just like siege expo in sc1.

if u stop a massgateway u will be ahead and win the game, its a simple thought

the proper way how a rts game should be is that a counter to a safe expo is to expo urself to catch up rather than having a bunch of "C&C db style rock paper scissor" hard counters

im not sure if my build or any tvp build for that matter can defend all cheese yet by "scout and respond rule" but i know its the best so far, since everything else has been failing terribly lately. just watch my reps vs nightend where i desperately tried to play my old 1rax fe xd

so if it now happens to be that u can counter cheese with this build, it doesnt mean pvt is impossible. it just means ur not gonna win easily by going same 1robo3warpgate every game. hopefully this is the first step to counter fe with fe rather than counter fe with rush. if both fe i guess it will turn out to be anyones game. but if terran cant fe then terran cant win because stuff like dts or sentry with force field are just so strong 1base vs 1base that they can let u expand while terran is locked in (5sentry 2immortal and 3 zealot is never ever gonna let u down the ramp). thats why its so important that we need a fe build thats safe against all cheese

im not gonna release any reps and its best if i dont talk about this any more for now because im still not sure how good it is really. but i can imagine it being really strong and ive never lost with it where i executed it correctly yet (im low rating tho). but ill keep u guys posted of my build works or not (as in straight up play, not luck based. not as in win or lose... "without meta game abuse" as nony would say :>)

On September 14 2010 08:15 Raiznhell wrote:
this clearly shows that MorroW is OP not terran

On September 14 2010 11:56 Subversion wrote:


We can only spread buildings at T2 when we get overlord creep. Unless of course you include creep tumours, which you can't.

Because using tumors to spread creep to far corners of ur base just to hide tech is retarded, and takes too long anyway.

You, on the other hand, can build wherever you like. Like when you build that proxy reaper rax. Or that bunker in our natural. Or you know, how you can wall-off.

On September 14 2010 13:49 coaL wrote:


MurDeR is a quite beastly Terran player who used to play War3 iirc. And I'm fairly certain that the story of Dimaga teaching MorroW the 5Rax Reaper build is MorroW himself as I think he mentioned it in an interview a few days after IEM.

On September 14 2010 08:15 Raiznhell wrote:
this clearly shows that MorroW is OP not terran