|
+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2010 23:15 TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event.
Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay.
Also the "they ahve ppl working here that dont know english and have no clue what their job is" is just amazing, do they really just hire random bums on the streets without looking in to what they can do first?
|
So, erm.. When will there be any announcement on GomTV website about this?
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On September 04 2010 02:18 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2010 23:15 TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event. Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay.
Did you seriously just throw out the racism card?
|
+ Show Spoiler + TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event.
Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay.
[/QUOTE]
Did you seriously just throw out the racism card?[/QUOTE][/spoiler]
In a way yes. But not in it's true sense, but letting non korean pay for something koreans get for free is a bit... ODD to say the least.
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On September 04 2010 02:18 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2010 23:15 TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event. Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay. Also the "they ahve ppl working here that dont know english and have no clue what their job is" is just amazing, do they really just hire random bums on the streets without looking in to what they can do first?
Dude... What you are describing happens ALL THE TIME in EVERY COUNTRY. Seriously. Want to watch quality football (soccer to Americans) in the US? Pay out your ass. Wanna watch in Europe? No problem.
Jesus, this is not new. This is standard practice. Move on with your life. Pay or don't pay. Just stop bitching.
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On September 04 2010 01:09 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 00:46 ZlaSHeR wrote:
I'm not buying it at all. If they said it wasn't a money making scheme and it was only used to cover the stream costs they wouldn't charge 50 dollars for live+vods. To stream across the world it'll cost them anywhere from 4 cents to 8 cents an hour. Assuming they give 3 hours of content a night, thats 24 cents per person, so they'd have to be giving over 170 hours of content at the highest price (8 cents an hour) even though we know they're not paying 8 cents an hour since their quality is 250 kb/s. All in all, if they planned ot have zero free stream and only a 50 dollar pay stream as the option for foreigners.
Theyw anted to make money otherwise they would have charged something like 3 bucks for the month to recover costs. You're forgetting the salaries of Tasteless and Artosis and the extra work to manage their workplace and stream.
They would pay their salaries regardless of the cast. They are paid everyd ay they do work not just when they are casting a GSL, they're not getting some gigantic contract bonus all of a sudden. Those salaries shouldn't have any effect on "recovering costs".
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On September 04 2010 02:27 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 02:18 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2010 23:15 TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event. Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay. Also the "they ahve ppl working here that dont know english and have no clue what their job is" is just amazing, do they really just hire random bums on the streets without looking in to what they can do first? Dude... What you are describing happens ALL THE TIME in EVERY COUNTRY. Seriously. Want to watch quality football (soccer to Americans) in the US? Pay out your ass. Wanna watch in Europe? No problem. Jesus, this is not new. This is standard practice. Move on with your life. Pay or don't pay. Just stop bitching.
Amen.
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On September 04 2010 02:23 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler + TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event. Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay.
Did you seriously just throw out the racism card?[/QUOTE][/spoiler]
In a way yes. But not in it's true sense, but letting non korean pay for something koreans get for free is a bit... ODD to say the least.[/QUOTE]
If you actually took time to read what you said was "propaganda", you could answer you own question. The korean stream has ads in it, which are obviously supporting korean products and in the korean language. They are not marketed for the westerners like ourselfs. Since there are no products being target for the western audience that means we must pay to watch the HQ stream. Seriously, take some business classes, or even marketing, and think of the real reason they would do this so you dont look stupid when you say its racism driving their decisions.
Everyone just watch the free stream, or even pay if you want. The more Americans that watch this greaters the chance they will get some American companies interested in supporting GOM and the GSL. That translates into potential western sponsors and ads, which means a better chance of getting a free HD stream like the Koreans. Dry your tears, turn off the hissy fit, and watch/pay for the stream so maybe we dont have to pay in the future.
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On September 04 2010 02:28 ZlaSHeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 01:09 Ropid wrote:On September 04 2010 00:46 ZlaSHeR wrote:
I'm not buying it at all. If they said it wasn't a money making scheme and it was only used to cover the stream costs they wouldn't charge 50 dollars for live+vods. To stream across the world it'll cost them anywhere from 4 cents to 8 cents an hour. Assuming they give 3 hours of content a night, thats 24 cents per person, so they'd have to be giving over 170 hours of content at the highest price (8 cents an hour) even though we know they're not paying 8 cents an hour since their quality is 250 kb/s. All in all, if they planned ot have zero free stream and only a 50 dollar pay stream as the option for foreigners.
Theyw anted to make money otherwise they would have charged something like 3 bucks for the month to recover costs. You're forgetting the salaries of Tasteless and Artosis and the extra work to manage their workplace and stream. They would pay their salaries regardless of the cast. They are paid everyd ay they do work not just when they are casting a GSL, they're not getting some gigantic contract bonus all of a sudden. Those salaries shouldn't have any effect on "recovering costs".
You're just making this up, right?
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On September 04 2010 02:27 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 02:18 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2010 23:15 TorcH wrote:Mods: I’m sorry for creating another thread about this topic, but I feel this information needs to be very easily and quickly accessed. Note: All the information in this post is completely based on the information I have gathered and does not *necessarily* reflect the opinions of GomTV, Blizzard, GSL, or any other party. As many people have seen, GomTV has changed their original plan for a PPV-only model of viewing GSL to the more standard: Free Normal(Low?)-Quality stream and then a reasonably priced Premium HQ Stream+VODs (You can find the exact options on http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ as soon as it is made public). What I intend to address in this post is some reasons for why they changed their method with a bit of insight into the company itself and all it is trying to do for SC2 and e-Sports. From the beginning, the PPV method was never a money-making scheme and GomTV should not be compared to Kespa/OGN/MBC for any reason (good or bad). They are trying to learn from the mistakes of their counterparts, but also adopt the successful attributes as they can. What Junkka (GomTV rep and very manner fellow) has stated in his posts about the cost going to cover the stream itself is very true. It was simply because they were not aware of any alternatives at the time. We all know it was not the wisest or most researched decision to make, but they now have other options which they are pursuing in order to do what is best for the community as a whole. It is not because they “tried to squeeze e-sports dry” (or any other similar ideas) and failed, but because, as Junkka said, they are extremely understaffed while still trying to run one of the largest (and hopefully one of the best) e-Sports events in history. Every employee at GomTV that I have met so far is working very hard and are passionate about what this could become, but they also do not have a strong connection to the foreign community, yet. They respect TL very much and do want to hear your opinions, but things also take time, so be patient, while still providing feedback as much as you can. It seemed a little odd even to me that they had not made any statements concerning this issue earlier, but they were pretty much all in rushed meetings trying to solve the issues and not able to provide a concise statement to TL or any other foreigners. Also, don’t necessarily expect anything official to come out for a little while, they are still working to provide an even better solution then what we are seeing now and may not want to make a statement they would once again have to retract. They recognize that while the additional US servers they are providing will help tremendously (as can be seen by the “Bandwidth Check” differences between yesterday and today), there is still a long way to go before everyone can receive ideal coverage of the event. Summary: -GomTV cares and is in no way evil -GSL will become a great event if we all support it (not necessarily monetarily, but in any way we can) -Keep up the good work! Addressing a few common comments in the various threads: 1. This was absolutely NOT a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique as many people speculated. They are being very honest with their statements and just don’t have the manpower to make 100% correct decisions 100% of the time. Bear with them (get it, because “Gom” = “Bear” in Korean ;-)) and keep providing them *constructive* criticism as you see fit. 2. Many of the pro-payment people stated you should be paying for this service just to support e-Sports. I disagree. Do NOT throw money away just in the name of supporting something, but DO let it be a factor in making some decisions, such as whether or not to pay for the HQ of a match you really want to see versus buying the whole package and only using it once or twice. Basically, be inclined to support GomTV/MLG/ESL/HandsomeNerd/etc if they provide a service you would like, as they prove to help E-Sports, but don’t have it be the sole reason for giving money to some random product/service if it doesn’t actually help or interest you. 3. Again, I can confirm that these events were not planned from the start, but the loud outcry has actually been motivating to GomTV and, with a bit of reflection, should be to everyone here. Take this energy and spread the word of GSL, SC2, and e-Sports to your friends, family, girlfriend, neighbors, grandparents, etc.4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before. Other Clarifications (I may edit in more items here if there are other questions I can clear up): 1. Season = approximately a 1-month tournament. There will be 3 seasons in 2010. 2. GSL will most likely NOT be on OGN this season, nothing is final however. Overall Message:
Try to erase the past few days from your mind and return to being psyched for what could easily become the greatest ongoing event in E-Sports history. Spread the word.If you have any further questions, feel free to send them to me or Junkka@gretech.com. However, I may not be able to respond as I’ve been neglecting practicing for a bit, because of this :-/. (For the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to make this free, it was all of you. TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING!) PS. In the interest of returning GSL's image back to something positive like it deserves, can we get the Poll on the side of TL removed, or reset? No I am not. I am just a player in their tournament that they've shown great hospitality to (which I'll touch on my experiences in that regard after the event is over for me) and someone who really cares about the growth of e-sports. I have no investment in GomTV, and their success or failure will not affect me any more than it affects any of you, so know that everything I said here is 100% the truth as I know it with no agenda other than trying to support what I see as a potentially awesome event. Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay. Also the "they ahve ppl working here that dont know english and have no clue what their job is" is just amazing, do they really just hire random bums on the streets without looking in to what they can do first? Dude... What you are describing happens ALL THE TIME in EVERY COUNTRY. Seriously. Want to watch quality football (soccer to Americans) in the US? Pay out your ass. Wanna watch in Europe? No problem. Jesus, this is not new. This is standard practice. Move on with your life. Pay or don't pay. Just stop bitching.
Seriously this. I can't believe people are now angry that the timezones make it difficult for them.
EDIT: Funny thing is I doubt these people will complain about it being 'racist' once the tournament in question is in a convenient timezone for them -_-
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Sleight wrote:
Dude... What you are describing happens ALL THE TIME in EVERY COUNTRY. Seriously. Want to watch quality football (soccer to Americans) in the US? Pay out your ass. Wanna watch in Europe? No problem.
Jesus, this is not new. This is standard practice. Move on with your life. Pay or don't pay. Just stop bitching.
Thats becuse they sell the rights to other companies, in this case GomTV sells the rights to another company AND the company makes it free watch while GomTV them selves makes ppl pay for it... it is totaly backwards. GomTV is NOT buying the rights to have this, they are SELLING the rights to show it to OTHERS who in turn makes it a free thing... what?
If GomTV was paying someone else for the right to have this then it would be another thing, they dont however.
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KristianJS wrote:
Seriously this. I can't believe people are now angry that the timezones make it difficult for them.
EDIT: Funny thing is I doubt these people will complain about it being 'racist' once the tournament in question is in a convenient timezone for them -_-
Wth does timezones have to do with it?
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lol Torch just went from an unknown player to the savior of GSL for foreigners - nice story
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On September 04 2010 02:18 SuperGnu wrote:
Nice propaganda, but they are still racists(or whatever the FOTM word is now) for letting koreans see it for free and non koreans "have" to pay.
Also the "they ahve ppl working here that dont know english and have no clue what their job is" is just amazing, do they really just hire random bums on the streets without looking in to what they can do first?
This isn't very logical and makes you look bad, please stop.
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Hyrule19242 Posts
$50...wouldn't buy.
$20...will probably buy.
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Torch thank you for taking the time to share this, this is awesome news and I hope you find full time to practice before the upcomming matches. +1 on the supporters
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great news . i'm psyched for this tournament once again.
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I might just buy this for the simple reason of testing the full scope of GomTV's services, which will allow me to give better feedback to the company.
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TorcH, I'v never seen you play, I got no idea who you are, but I am already a fan :p
This post was needed.
4. A fully, free, ad-supported, true-HD stream is the goal, but keep in mind this is EXTREMELY short notice to run a tournament of this scale on *repeat* a very understaffed team. Saying things like “they should just get sponsors, it’d pay for itself” is completely known to them, but you have to have a marketing team already set and able to present your product to *foreign* (most employees speak no, or very little, English) companies that may have never heard of E-Sports before.
This is also a good reason as to why a free stream is good and if the first event runs great and attracts a lot of people, GOM will have a ton of data to provide to future sponsors.
"We had xxxxxxxx people from xxx countries watching during the first season", etc. sounds a lot better than "HEY ITS ESPORT ITS GONNA BE AWESOME PLEASE SPONSOR".
Other than that, Gretech should use artosis/tasteless more, or even called djwheat or BiggerT, I'm sure they would have realized pretty fast that it wouldn't be a good idea to have pay-only streams.
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EPT
