Is SC2 Boring To Watch? - Page 20
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Zoltan-
United States71 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 29 2010 04:34 hadoken5 wrote: Lets compare a TvX to a ZvP: TvX: "Ok what could happen here?Any one of 2 things can happen when Terran goes MM as usual: -Game ends within first push OR -Game does not end in the first push and Terran just expands and gets more MM regardless of what opponent has. And the other player has to counter MM which you already know what that will be like, and Terran seems to stick with MM no matter what. So the opponent will have to stay with MM counter. And then the game just goes on to who has more "stuff" and whether or not Terran knows how to dodge storms." ZvP: Although this can end with a 4gate push, if the Zerg player fends it off and then there is so much that can happen here as both races REACT to what the other is doing, as opposed to "getting MOAR". If Zerg gets hydras to counter gateway units, Protoss gets colossi, then Zerg gets roaches, then Protoss gets immortals, then Zerg gets corrupters to kill colossus, so that it's hydras are more effective, then a huge battle occurs where Zerg will usually lose but Protoss will not have enough to make a push as Zerg will quickly recreate their army by the time Protoss gets there and then both players have to rebuild their army, and the whole reacting to the opponent's army so that I can stomp it begins again. I know it is mostly Zerg that needs to react but Protoss also needs to react a bit. Now wouldn't it be great if ALL the races needed to react to what their opponent was doing? Wasn't the whole point of light and armored units to make it so that people would have to react more? Wasn't it supposed to be so that the question you asked yourself was "Am I getting the right units?" rather then "Am I getting ENOUGH units"? Wasn't the whole point of unit types to make it so that if your opponent is going heavy on these types of units, I don't need to make MOAR I need to make "smart". BUT WAIT, this like ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS! I don't want that to happen! However you may want it more then you think. A lot of people originally didn't like that idea. However a lot of the people who play Zerg enjoy adapting to what the opponent is building, however the reason as to why they THINK they don't like it is because their opponent does not have to adapt to what THEY are doing, leading them to say that this is a stupid idea. I would say that if ALL the races had to quickly respond to what they opponent is doing it would force them to stay away from a single all-powerful strategy. I think this guy is making a point. MMM doesnt have hard counters whereas it counters a lot of stuff. Even baneling/FG doesn't counter good enough that strategy coz terran can abuse drops easily. Its all about will P overcome the endless stream of MM from tons of barracks or not. IPlayable, just not worth to watch :-( | ||
biology]major
United States2253 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [VODs] + Terran: massing MMM all game, even not bothering to build enough vikings. Minerals were skyrocketing to 10000. Protoss: Using colossi, HT, Archons, feedbacks and handling drops to counter MM. And P actually was defending all the time despite having superior army. I just don get it. | ||
EppE
United States221 Posts
On August 31 2010 07:27 bokeevboke wrote: This is a 42 min PvT. + Show Spoiler [VODs] + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mt8Es5JoM Terran: massing MMM all game, even not bothering to build enough vikings. Minerals were skyrocketing to 10000. Protoss: Using colossi, HT, Archons, feedbacks and handling drops to counter MM. And P actually was defending all the time despite having superior army. I just don get it. Yeah I saw that replay. He went pure Bio the entire game, think he got out like 2 or 3 siege tanks super late, and just kept hammering the Toss. The Protoss player went Coli, HT, Archons. Both players were very good though. The Terran had very good bio micro and the Protoss was a sharp shooter with feedback. | ||
sektr
Canada5 Posts
Consider Terran in BW. Marines/Tanks/Science Vessels are by far the most popular and dominant army composition in BW, and there is truly VERY little deviation from that ever, the only change you'll ever see is pure mech. It's not like BW had a massive amount of variation in unit usage compared to SC2's current state. In ZvT, even Z had to stick to a fairly straightforward comp (Lings, Lurkers, Defilers, Ultras, sometimes muta harass earlier on), in order to deal with the "standard" Terran comp. Some will disagree with this, but strategy really comes from how you use your units on the map in question, and not the actual army composition. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see a MMM nerf so that more units can see some usage in high level play. | ||
WniO
United States2706 Posts
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mols0n
Canada388 Posts
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Dreadwolf
Canada220 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
Mass Marines + Press stim pack + A-move .. repeat need gas only for upgrade | ||
benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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GodIsNotHere
Canada395 Posts
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
Let's look forward to GSL. As for the MM discussion, yeah there is a bit of strangeness there when T is able to do it all game long. My main issue with it has more to do with stimpack than anything else. The main problem I have with stimpack is not necessarily the damage boost but it has more to do with the combination of Stim Marauders + Concussive shell, if I could run from a stimmed bioball without losing 1/4 or 1/3 of my army I would find it way better but as it is now if you are caught up in a bad position, Terran press T and roll over your force. The second issue I have with it is the fact M&M is too effective against buildings with stim but I'm not sure how to change this. | ||
myIRE
Belgium229 Posts
And if you nerf MM then T will not longer be able to do anything, terran army is so immobile, MM is the only way to harass/move about the map. | ||
Rokk
United States425 Posts
On August 31 2010 05:27 Thoro wrote: All right, so I got into watching BW when SC2 beta phase 1 ended. I played BW around when it came out, but never got big-time into it because I was like 4 years old at the time. When beta came out I started playing ladder which made me want to get better- so I started watching SC2 as well. Then, as I said above, beta ended so I started watching BW. So just to set the record straight, I started watching both games around the same time. In my opinion, BW is way more fun to watch. There are some good reasons, too- I love the massive amounts of action that goes on in BW- you generally have skirmishes going on EVERYWHERE with massive amounts of expos, as opposed to SC2 where you may get 2 or 3 expos and you have 1 core army and then a small group of harassers, or something of the sort. I could go into it in more , but basically, I like how BW has players using their army everywhere, rather than in one giant ball marching towards the opponent at certain periods in the game. I think SC2 might develop to the point to where it's more entertaining to watch- I hope so, at least. Until then, I watch SC2 purely to improve my skill level. I think this a result of the current map pool as well as the current state of the meta game. Maps like steppes of war are not exactly conducive to multiple expansions, but maps like Melalopolis commonly has large macro games with 3-4 bases each. If you look at Nada vs TLO game 2, Nada was building his fourth as TLO was securing his nat. Once bigger maps start to be the norm, I think we'll see a lot more big macro games. | ||
Mike941
United States98 Posts
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
They are good against anything, hence every Terran game is a 1 dimensional marauder spam. Nerf these please. | ||
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