I don't know how many out there have been watching the MLG SC2 tournament in Raleigh at the moment or got a chance to catch a few games but for those of you who did (and I guess those of you who did not as well) I just want the point out the difference between the two casting teams. The casters are of course Day9 with JP an Husky with HD.
I have to admit that in the early stages of beta I was an HD/Husky fan. The game was new and they were able to put up a ton of replays early on as well as organize the HDH tournament which was a blast to follow and they did a wonderful job showcasing the game before I got hold of a beta key and I know that many people can appreciate their early coverage of them game because they certainly did a good job. However, as the game has progressed I feel that they have failed to keep up with their quality of commentary when compared to the rest of the communities commentators despite their huge following on youtube and this tournament has further reinforced my current feelings toward them that they are undeserving of the attention. While I do like them as people and personality wise and am grateful that they gave a nice jump-start in the beginning I do not believe that they are (or have been the last month or so) living up to the name that they have in the community. Day9 is an amazing caster. He has awesome knowledge of the game and is also very entertaining and knows very well how to provide great commentary and I would say that he is definitely one of my more favorite commentators. He has done a lot of work recently from the SoCal Lan 5 (which I got to see in person :D), the Razer King of the Beta Tournament and launch party, Intel Extreme Masters tournament in Germany, and of course his Day9 Daily and he has been doing a wonderful job at all these events. He has been doing excellent work and deserves much respect and is probably one of the best english speaking commentators out there for SC2 at the moment. That being said while Husky and HD are being compared to one the best casters in the community it just goes to show how poor of commentaries they are providing. They make very few interesting points due to what seems to be a lacking of knowledge, make quite a few errors, and overall put together poor commentaries in my opinion which lack much color.
While this thread is pointing some negative attention towards HD and Husky I just want to say that so far the tournament has been going very well and everyone involved have been doing a great job. That includes the commentary provided by HD and Husky, the point I am trying to make is that the level of Day9 and JP's commentary is much higher than theirs (and I believe that there are many commentators out there who I would say would be doing a better job in their place).
That all is of course just my opinion. What do you think?
HD is awful. He has a good quality stream but with MLG that is null. He doesn't know what is going on, can't predict the games, can't predict strategy, doesn't understand matchups very much, and misses everything that is important
Husky is better, but lets HD spout his nonsense and it makes him seem worse. Husky also misses important things that are going on, but knows more.
But yes, HD is just....oh god. At least he doesn't talk about "chrono boosting his probes for the economy" as if its revolutionary anymore. Like, really, chrono boosting probes for economy? I thought it was for a fucking probe rush, chrono is such a proskill and you never see it
but on the other hand Husky and HD have been really busy since the beta ended. They are not as good as Day9 but other than Tastless who really is. Who doesnt love Day's voice on air lol. Also its their first lan event, they are probably fighting the nerves and what not.. i know if i was casting matches in the same event as day9 i would shat my pants.
Husky and HD just need more time and practice under their belt. Pointing out some of their faults along with pointing out some good parts is healthly also in my opinion.
With time if they keep at it im sure they will mature into really great casters. You gotta love the passion and heart they put into it aswell. And that can be said for alot of people in the community. Is it always going to be top notch like the Plott brothers.. no.. but give it time and great things will continue to happen.
SC community is pretty much the greatest group of people... ever.
Im a big fan of all 4 of them, but lately HD hasnt been impressing me, in his videos i find he says the same thing over and over and just tries to use large vocabulary, and sometimes doesnt even make sense, im finding it kinda annoying. Husky i love to watch just for his humourous commentaries, and when i want to watch a good casted game i just watch day9.
that being said i still think they all do a great job, day9 is just naturally leagues ahead, but i mean... its day9..c'mon. i think husky is doing just fine but i honestly think HD needs to pick up his game a little bit and stop using his analogies (he once recently referred to a ZvP as the cold war i think), and large vocabularies that sometimes dont make sense in context, and stop repeating himself. (eg. and the red zerg spawning here under the player name dimaga, gonna spawning here, as the red zerg.) - that sounds a bit exagerated but he really does often do that lol.
It's their 1st LAN event and they need to set up a flow between each other. At the beginning of the event they were pretty bad but they clicked right at the end at the cast were really good.
MLG took HD and Husky for their fanbase. I followed pro broodwar for a year or two before SC2 came out and I was a fan of some of the commentators from the violetak account like Diggity, Rise, Cholera (that's it) who were a lot easier to listen to I think than HD and Husky. HD and Husky are relatively new but when they came on the scene they just poured out tons and tons of commentaries, and around this same time is when there was a drought and also a higher demand.
The commentators I mentioned above lost the wind from their sails or something. I remember they asked for donations to keep commentating, and that's when their commentating stopped. It was the worst timing probably, because that's where interest in commentated games rocketted up and HD and Husky started becoming popular. It's too bad the other commentators took a break right at that timing and haven't been as big on SC2, we could have been listening to better quality commentators on MLG. I know diggity has done stuff since, and rise has been around, but their drought was at bad timing like I said, it's too bad.
At least day9 has improved a lot as a commentator. That chill vs combat ex grudge match commentary he did was a little too angsty for me lol. Husky and HD did seem to get a lot more comfortable tonight as time went on so gonna give props to them for that. Early on Husky's voice was annoyingly anxious but it got a little easier to listen to as he calmed down. For real though, HD forces awkard wording, and mixes up unit names in the worst way, and Husky's excitement level goes to the extreme and he gets all shrill haha. They should really work on that if they want to appeal to a wider audience. Any potential fans looking over at this new SC2 tab on MLG would be like "... nerds" just sayin.
HD and Husky are AWFUL commentators, they miss soooo much (for instance, a Mothership). They demonstrate little insightful knowledge of the game seem to just say whatever comes to the top of their heads at any given moment. They seem to be able to hype up action moments (big battles) very well and Husky has an incredible ability to talk at 9342587 words per minute. That's their only strength, though.
Day9 and JP, on the other hand, are literally flawless. They have an amazing rapport, fantastic insight and playbyplay and never miss a thing. Furthermore, their on camera behavior is absolutely amazing. Day9 acts as if he's been on camera his entire life, casually telling jokes and keeping the conversation going well after lesser men would have wilted. He'd be an amazing news anchor and an even better talkshow host in another life, I just wish they'd give him more time at this event.
I've always been a large fan of Huskies because of the humor he infuses. Even tonight had me laugh a few times. HD on the other hand is a good caster, but I think he needs more experience with the different MU's. Sometimes I just facepalm at a predicted tech-path when one is way more obvious. That's about my only gripe, however. As far as missing things I think everyone can improve there--I mean it is really difficult to truly see and especially commentate on everything that is going on.
Also as well I feel like trying to explain some reasons why someone lost just didn't make sense. Like the gretorp vs silver game 1. I didn't agree with his assessment that the hellions were the cause, it was definitely the banshee and lack of viking micro easily. Still I cut slack because they are under pressure and it is hard to call that stuff on the fly when you are thinking of other things too.
Either way--I really enjoyed all 4 casters and I will probably still watch all ther stuff until they decide to stop doing it
Give them a chance, IMO. The first LAN event is probably very stressful not to mention they had to deal with the stress of creating games and not being sure of what to do.
But i do agree it was a times grimacing to watch them both stare at the computer screen never to look at the camera for more than half a second. jeez I remember seeing more of the top of husky's head than anything, so it was very uncomfortable to watch at first. As the night went on they were improving. keep it up guys, no doubt will you learn to pros soon
Conversely, MAD props to Day9 and JP! You too are perhaps the best commentating team ive ever seen!
I'm not going to try to look for flaws with any of the current casters. I think they all did a really good job and made the games exponentially more enjoyable.
I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
On August 28 2010 13:40 Rah wrote: At least day9 has improved a lot as a commentator. That chill vs combat ex grudge match commentary he did was a little too angsty for me lol.
You know that whole match and cast was a big joke for Day and Chill right? As in Day9 has said many times that he went totally over the top for that show just because the whole thing was supposed to be a spectacle
On August 28 2010 13:40 Rah wrote: MLG took HD and Husky for their fanbase. I followed pro broodwar for a year or two before SC2 came out and I was a fan of some of the commentators of the violetak account like Diggity, Rise, Cholera (that's it) who were a lot easier to listen to I think than HD and Husky. HD and Husky are relatively new but when they came on the scene they just poured out tons and tons of commentaries, and around this same time is when there was a drought and also a higher demand. The commentators I mentioned above lost the wind on their sails or something. I remember they asked for donations to keep commentating, and then their commentating stopped, and at the worst timing probably because that's where interest in commentated games rocketted up and HD and Husky became so popular. It's too bad they stopped right at that timing and haven't been as big on SC2, we could have been listening to better quality commentators.
I know diggity has done stuff since and rise has been around, but their drought was at bad timing like I said, it's too bad. At least day9 has improved a lot as a commentator. That chill vs combat ex grudge match commentary he did was a little too angsty for me lol.
I miss Diggity. They never really asked for donations too much as far as I knew. They really seemed like they weren't those kind of people. I know moletrap asked for donations just for the new computer. Of course I knew he was still in College, with a full time job and not a lot of money to spare. That was just a hobby for them. Take HD and Husky now. They pump out like 2 games a day. That's ridiculous. Some of them aren't even very high level. They have google partnership. They're doing that for the money. That's not a problem or anything, just like you said. They were the only ones at the time with SC commentary. So they just became huge. HD isn't necessarily the best caster, nor is Husky. NukeTheStars, Moletrap, Diggity, and Ranshin, are all much better commentators if you ask me. They know the game. They've been doing it for years. Let's not forget Cholera, Rise, DejaVu, and more I can't even name.
Back to SC2 commentators. Day9 was the only real entertaining caster, the rest were really just.. meh? HD was like quiet that whole time. Husky was yelling a lot. JP seemed to take the backseat to Day9. I haven't heard any of his commentaries though. HDH picked it up at the end though. Except they were just trading off and not really talking to each other like Day9 and JP. All together I really liked day9 more.
On August 28 2010 13:31 Champi wrote: i think husky is doing just fine but i honestly think HD needs to pick up his game a little bit and stop using his analogies (he once recently referred to a ZvP as the cold war i think), and large vocabularies that sometimes dont make sense in context, and stop repeating himself. (eg. and the red zerg spawning here under the player name dimaga, gonna spawning here, as the red zerg.) - that sounds a bit exagerated but he really does often do that lol.
I think I remember him saying "This possibly might be a bad time for ____ maybe." >_> Husky does relatively well, even if he's obviously inexperienced at controlling the camera during a live match. HD though just don't know the game very well and can't speak well either. I'm sure they'll improve with time, but I don't think they should be casting MLG at this time.
On August 28 2010 13:52 Kraz.Del wrote: I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
I don't know who is QQing about Day9 not being all the time. :\
On August 28 2010 13:52 Kraz.Del wrote: I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
I don't know who is QQing about Day9 not being all the time. :\
I'm not going to make you read the MLG thread but everyone there QQed the second he wasn't talking and they didn't show his face.
Seriously this caster fanboy wars is just as pathetic as watching console fanboy wars on N4G.
On August 28 2010 13:40 Rah wrote: At least day9 has improved a lot as a commentator. That chill vs combat ex grudge match commentary he did was a little too angsty for me lol.
You know that whole match and cast was a big joke for Day and Chill right? As in Day9 has said many times that he went totally over the top for that show just because the whole thing was supposed to be a spectacle
Even with that, it takes a special mind to come up with some of the random shit he was spouting in that match lol. I'm glad he didn't stick with that over the top commentary style. Though I can understand if he ever brings it back for a special event like a chill vs combat ex rematch in SC2. Nostalgia and all. =p
Bear in mind, casting a live event is extremely difficult. If you notice, there are often technical delays when they switch to interviews, technical delays when getting into games as well as other issues that only happen during live casts. While HD might not have the game mechanics knowledge that Day9 has, I think he still does an alright job, much better than the average viewer could do.
Husky and HD are good play by play guys, but they just can't do game analysis. Thats not a knock to them. Doing game analysis is best left to high level players who have played for years and years. I honestly think they should not even try to analyze things to deeply and just talk about whats going on in the game in very general ways. I think maybe they should even break up as a duo and look to pair with players to be there color men to their play by play.
Guys instead of calling them out and saying they're bad commentators how about you go commentate some crap and we'll see how much you get ridiculed. It's not nice is it? If you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything at all.
On August 28 2010 13:52 Kraz.Del wrote: I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
I don't know who is QQing about Day9 not being all the time. :\
I'm not going to make you read the MLG thread but everyone there QQed the second he wasn't talking and they didn't show his face.
Seriously this caster fanboy wars is just as pathetic as watching console fanboy wars on N4G.
Ah, I was not aware of that and figured that statement was directed at me. lol My bad.
HD and Husky seem to get too fixated on following one group of units around. They'll pick a group and then follow it around until it either engages or retreats back to base, then pick another group and follow it. While they do this, they miss any number of engagements that happen simultaneously, completely ignore upgrades, and often miss unit production switches all together. In addition to that, their in-battle and post-battle analysis is subpar, crediting the wrong units and hyping up the wrong things pre-battle. Their prediction skills are poor but they still insist on trying to predict what will happen at the end of battles, rather than saying what happens during battles. The thing I hear most often during high pitched battles is "I have no idea what just happened," when their job is to tell me what happened. I understand why MLG picked them up for this tourney and don't fault the organization for that, but hopefully they can find another duo for next event.
On August 28 2010 13:58 Supa19 wrote: Bear in mind, casting a live event is extremely difficult. If you notice, there are often technical delays when they switch to interviews, technical delays when getting into games as well as other issues that only happen during live casts. While HD might not have the game mechanics knowledge that Day9 has, I think he still does an alright job, much better than the average viewer could do.
Sure they do better than an average viewer, but that's not really a *good* thing. They're casting for the first major event of the MLG SC2 season, they should be amazing and right now they're just annoying. It's been fairly obvious for a while now that they were brought on to the event for publicity and their absurdly large viewer-ship and not for their skills.
Now that being said, I think HD and Husky are an integral part of the e-sports community. They attract an enormous amount of very casual viewers that would not otherwise be drawn to the gaming scene. This can only be a good thing and I respect them a lot for what they've been able to accomplish. That doesn't mean they should be casting major events; they just don't have that skillset.
On August 28 2010 14:00 MercurialGaming wrote: Guys instead of calling them out and saying they're bad commentators how about you go commentate some crap and we'll see how much you get ridiculed. It's not nice is it? If you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything at all.
It's a feedback thread on the casting, not a compliments thread. If we don't tell them what they did wrong in addition to what we liked, how are they every going to improve?
HDH aren't the best, and look worse compared with day9 and JP, but I genuinely enjoyed all of the casts today from both teams. All casters miss stuff, and I'm pretty sure JP and Day9 completely missed a nuke in the first Silver game they casted.
Hell, can you really say that not knowing about that Mothership until right as it popped out to fight away the enemy wasn't exciting? It was entertaining, and that's at least 2/3 the reason I watch these tournament casts.
Edit: One thing I will say is that I think Husky needs to calm down. He talks nonstop and extremely fast, you really don't have to say that much.
This is the first time they've done a live venue, and it just happens to be one of the biggest North American Starcraft 2 Tournaments to date. By the end of the event, I'll bet that they'll find their comfort zone and transform into the commentators we know and love. No one is immune to nerves, even Day[9] (see Starcraft 2 Countdown Party).
Well at the end of the day you guys are nothing more but the loud minority. There is a reason these guys have a large fanbase because people enjoy their cast just as much as you guys do day9. And MLG certainly isn't going to exclude them from future event because a couple of members of TL.net think their not hardcore enough for their taste. They are nooby friendly which is what MLG wants from them and they do a good job at it. You guys simply pick the mistake they make a big deal out of it, like when HD said Viking instead of Banshee or Husky said "Looks like we've been seeing Phoenix+Chargelots" after already having seen the tech.
HD and Husky are awesome. They bring so much more excitement to the matches. Day9 is fantastic with analysis, but he isn't nearly as entertaining. If I want to learn the game I watch Day9, if I want to sit back and watch Starcraft, I watch HDH.
Meh the only one who really gets to me is JP. He doesn't really know anything about the game and thinks that just saying what the players are doing counts as casting. The best part was in Select vs some no-name game round 1 he actually was casting *select sitting at his pc*!
"And now he's sitting, I think, yes he is actually sitting at his computer; we can see him from here. He's asking for a moderator. A moderator is now in fact moving into his direction, which is quite interesting."
On August 28 2010 14:00 MercurialGaming wrote: Guys instead of calling them out and saying they're bad commentators how about you go commentate some crap and we'll see how much you get ridiculed. It's not nice is it? If you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything at all.
It's a feedback thread on the casting, not a compliments thread. If we don't tell them what they did wrong in addition to what we liked, how are they every going to improve?
I agree with this, but still, the amount of crap these two guys get for casting is ridiculous, and the fact that most of it is just nonconstructive insults (like the comment below you) is really unfair to them.
While Day9 is definitely a better caster than either HD or Husky, the fact is he has a lot more experience then them in the SC community. Both of them work hard at what they do, and, as time goes by, they will get better.
Criticism is fine, but don't take it so far guys. Everyone hating on HDH is doing the same thing people who watch every single sporting event on television do...complain about the broadcasters. When a play by play guy makes a mistake and calls the name of the starting running back when actually the back up had gone in on that particular play, you just make fun of him a little and that's it. When HDH make a bad call, everyone immediately goes berserk and calls for them to be banned from casting.
A previous post had it right though, HD and Huskey are to me the "play by play" guys and Day9 and JP should be analysts. Sometimes Day9 and JP have too much knowledge and step on eachother while their speaking too.
Do I think they're going to be the best? No, they're one of the first mainstream duo's EVER...just chill and have fun with the casts.
am i the only one who thinks day9's co-casters drag him down? seriously the guys hes matched up with just dont mesh well with him. there always to quiet and never keep up with the flow. it feels at times they force themselves to comment on something just to feel included again because day9 is steeling all the spotlight and it shows. whenever these guys talk it just sounds very weird. what happened to chill + day9? am i the only one who thinks day9 + chill are the best group of casters. and why isnt chill commentating? hes far more entertaining and knowledgable on starcraft than most of these current commentators that people are talkin about.
It's honestly because they marketed themselves the best during beta. With high quality video, better search terms in their names (HDstarcraft is about as generic as you can get). Now they have large subscriber bases.
Honestly though they are average/bland at casting. I hope people don't take this as some sacred ground, it's opinion and they already have large enough subscribers it doesn't matter what people think their casting is, they will still be invited to events etc for pure marketing reasons and that's fine, good for them. Honestly though I would rather do without having MLG use them, but for the growth of SC2 it's good.
But every minute of watching MLG just makes me pray GSL arrives and artosis/tasteless can start casting. I am not saying they are horrible, or bad, it's just my preference in casting is more tasteless/artosis/rise favored. Heck I like Klazart (mainly because he live casted a lot of SC1 and is a savior fan We all have different tastes/preferences.
On August 28 2010 14:00 MercurialGaming wrote: Guys instead of calling them out and saying they're bad commentators how about you go commentate some crap and we'll see how much you get ridiculed. It's not nice is it? If you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything at all.
It's a feedback thread on the casting, not a compliments thread. If we don't tell them what they did wrong in addition to what we liked, how are they every going to improve?
Perhaps just focusing on providing constructive feedback rather than simply pointing out the mistakes would be more useful. I'm not saying you did it, but a few of the other commenters simply complained rather than provide feedback.
I thought all four casters did a good job, but I think that HD and Husky both need to work on some things. HD needs to follow the bases a bit more and look at the minimap more regularly. He occasionally makes predictions that are obviously wrong if you look at the players' bases or the minimap. If he fixes that, I think he has a good voice for casting and does a good job at giving play by plays.
Husky needs to end sentences. I think that's why he is unable to give that many strategic insights: any insight he has gets overpowered by his stream of consciousness commentating. I remember a specific example where he was commenting on banshees being a good early game counter to tanks, but instead of going into why that would benefit Gretorp (for example, apply pressure while expanding), he saw Silver's marauders and commented that they were also being good against tanks. While both these things were true, neither player had tanks on the map or were in the process of getting tanks so the comments didn't add anything to the game. Husky does that very often: He starts a thought and continues linking that thought to whatever occurs on the screen. That style is great for exciting battles, but not so good for providing strategic insight. So I would suggest that he tries to focus on making fewer but more cohesive points when he commentates the less exciting parts of the game.
As has been said, Day and JP really commentate well together. Perhaps it's because they've casted things before (as I understand it), but unlike the casting at IEM, Day and JP are not talking over eachother.
day9 and jp are great commentators with good analysis on the game. I like HD and husky since they are entertaining and they both have the "radio voice" or "commentating voice". They may not be as knowledgeable as day9, but I give them credit for trying at least. Obviously day9, tasteless, or artosis are great commentators because they've been playing SC:BW for years. Although SC2 is a different game, it isn't a 100% completely different game, so some things are easily carried over.
Jesus guys, not everything is a competition, it's just some people commentating games for us. Enjoy them or don't, no need to make a whine thread about it. I hate the mentality that everything needs to be criticized all the time.
I like Day[9] and jp and HD and Husky. You can too.
On August 28 2010 14:17 SeaSmoke wrote: Criticism is fine, but don't take it so far guys. Everyone hating on HDH is doing the same thing people who watch every single sporting event on television do...complain about the broadcasters. When a play by play guy makes a mistake and calls the name of the starting running back when actually the back up had gone in on that particular play, you just make fun of him a little and that's it. When HDH make a bad call, everyone immediately goes berserk and calls for them to be banned from casting.
A previous post had it right though, HD and Huskey are to me the "play by play" guys and Day9 and JP should be analysts. Sometimes Day9 and JP have too much knowledge and step on eachother while their speaking too.
Do I think they're going to be the best? No, they're one of the first mainstream duo's EVER...just chill and have fun with the casts.
I think it's dumb to harp over them making bad calls in games, because really any commentator does that. It's the annoying habits like horrible opening and closing phrases ("seeee you guysth next time!!!!!") and forcing in awkward wording everywhere just to try and sound smarter than you are while tripping over easy sentences (HD). Things like those can and should be fixed, if you want to improve and be taken seriously when you talk. I know it's hard to break bad habits, but as a pro SC fan, I'd be happy of they'd at least try a little bit so we don't have to turn down the volume whenever that duo comes on.
On August 28 2010 14:22 zoLo wrote: Haters gonna hate.
day9 and jp are great commentators with good analysis on the game. I like HD and husky since they are entertaining and they both have the "radio voice" or "commentating voice". They may not be as knowledgeable as day9, but I give them credit for trying at least. Obviously day9, tasteless, or artosis are great commentators because they've been playing SC:BW for years. Although SC2 is a different game, it isn't a 100% completely different game, so some things are easily carried over.
I don't think you get it. It's also personality. I can go to somethingawful/non teamliquid sites and probably around here and find people that don't like tasteless, day9, etc. It happens, it's just people's preferences. I could list more clearly but it would be entirely due to my preferences The things I don't like about day9 commentary are what a ton of people like about it. On the other hand though HDH are just "weaker" casters in general and honestly are much better at marketing themselves / getting subscribers. Which is not a bad thing and an entirely valid reason to be there and have success.
They put in good work in getting to those points and had good plans / played beta hype correctly.
i think a lot of you are being harsh. HD and Husky don't understand the meta game very well but that's something that can be improved. I think they are both funny and know how to hype the action. I will admit they miss some key moments in the games. One moment comes to mind where silver wanted to drop a medivac full of marines but had to abort because gretorp had a hellion at the watch tower and spotted it. Hd was talking about some other random thing and totally missed that key moment. I think they are great, but they could work on their meta game knowledge and they should also try to pay more attention to what's going on. but they aren't as bad as some of you make them sound. Besides, this is a relatively new thing. they are still leaps ahead of the next best. They will improve with time.
Constructive criticism to every commentator: stop with contrived excitement. Don't yell during every game, don't overuse words like 'brilliant' and 'perfect'. The play just doesn't warrant it.
Exaggeration and hyperbole are fun but the best commentators - in sports and otherwise - strive for accuracy with entertainment. There is not brilliance and perfection in every StarCraft 2 game but how often do we hear words like that? There's really, really not cause for yelling and screaming in most SC2 games and yet people keep raising their voices during every single game.
Save the bursts of energy for times when they are truly warranted. It fizzles quickly when you overuse it. Your words become meaningless and your screams become annoying if you go from 0 to 10 in every game.
I think the reason we all have quite a bit of rage towards the situation is the other casters who deserve it more.
There are a crapload of wayyyy better community casters, but they aren't chosen for this big event because they aren't partners with youtube and crap like that (HD and Husky are).
To be honest I mute HDH when I'm watching a game they are casting. Its seriously useless. They have a crapload of undeserved fame and I really feel sorry for the GOOD casters getting less respect and views than them.
I think it comes down to a matter of style of casting. Day 9's casting is much more technical than HD and Husky's. Much more concerned with the value of certain tactics and what means what. On the other hand HD and Husky are much more descriptive from an entertainment point of view. I.e. what they say doesn't contribute on a technical level but for many viewers it does make them laugh or go "oh thats cool". They just get that much more excited about the game. Sure they may miss a few things that Day 9 would catch, but they make up for it in a more stylistic manner.
I greatly enjoyed watching both sets of casters and look forward to day 2.
The only reason why JP looks good is because Day9 is next to him. The guy knows less about SC2 than HDH. What needs to happen is Day9 needs to be paired with someone like Husky or HD, take your pick they are both the same type of casters, they just do play by play and vomit whatever they see on the screen. Day9 actually knows how to play game and can break it down, that type of casting is rare, because most high level, or ex-high level players don't go on to become casters.
Basically the problem with HDH is both of them are just playbyplay commentators. They cancel each other out and bore people. Pair one of them with someone like Day9 and it will be much better.
I've always been a critic of HDH, not a fan of theirs. They're performing at about the same level of a first time LAN player. They're doing slightly better than I expected but they are definitely just too loud and screaming etc. I prefer JP's style along with Day9's knowledge. But oh well, not much we can do about it.
On August 28 2010 14:32 choboPEon wrote: Constructive criticism to every commentator: stop with contrived excitement. Don't yell during every game, don't overuse words like 'brilliant' and 'perfect'. The play just doesn't warrant it.
Exaggeration and hyperbole are fun but the best commentators - in sports and otherwise - strive for accuracy with entertainment. There is not brilliance and perfection in every StarCraft 2 game but how often do we hear words like that? There's really, really not cause for yelling and screaming in most SC2 games and yet people keep raising their voices during every single game.
Save the bursts of energy for times when they are truly warranted. It fizzles quickly when you overuse it. Your words become meaningless and your screams become annoying if you go from 0 to 10 in every game.
That said, I enjoyed this for the most part!
Oh god a thousand times this, probably my biggest gripe. Keep it real! or at least only add 1-2 points of excitement
Tasteless does it but I never found it annoying, but I guess he has more reason to as he is watching mega amazing korean players, and SC1 has way more key moments.
they do a great thing for the community and i have the utmost respect for them because of their love of the community. they may not be pro enough for everyones super high standards but i dont see any of the haters going out there and trying to do better.
i very much appreciate them and what they do, and i know im not alone on that. i wish people could just not nitpick so much about it and try to be happier and more thankful.
On August 28 2010 14:36 Zurles wrote: Although I tend to agree, a giant hate thread is probably taking it a bit too far.
While some of the people are just hating, I think constructive criticism can do wonders. There's an infinitesimal chance of it but hey, if they read this thread and improve their casting from it - and think they would if they took the time - it would be a win win.
On August 28 2010 14:39 Keldrath wrote: they do a great thing for the community and i have the utmost respect for them because of their love of the community. they may not be pro enough for everyones super high standards but i dont see any of the haters going out there and trying to do better.
i very much appreciate them and what they do, and i know im not alone on that. i wish people could just not nitpick so much about it and try to be happier and more thankful.
except there are tons of casters doing a better job. they just aren't youtube partners cause they don't strive for super high watcher counts like HD and Husky
On August 28 2010 14:11 comis wrote: Meh the only one who really gets to me is JP. He doesn't really know anything about the game and thinks that just saying what the players are doing counts as casting. The best part was in Select vs some no-name game round 1 he actually was casting *select sitting at his pc*!
"And now he's sitting, I think, yes he is actually sitting at his computer; we can see him from here. He's asking for a moderator. A moderator is now in fact moving into his direction, which is quite interesting."
If you were paying attention, you would realize it was because select had asked for a pause, and in that moment of confusion where the viewers were wondering why the game was not paused, JP was informing the viewers that a moderator is approaching select to address the issue.
The casting in MLG and other events has been bad/worse than it should be. Another example would be having Adam Sesslar or w.e. at Evo, he casted the SSF4 finals and was completely wrong most of the time. They put in casters that are not good due to their popularity/established position. This I guess is "good" for growing it, but don't expect anyone to be thankful we get sub par casting at events that can fly in any caster in the country.
Casting is huge for getting people to actually keep watching/grow, I know tasteless, an amazing caster, get people who might be on the fence about even watching / playing the game and a lot just watch it for the commentary.
I respect HD and Husky's right to make commentaries and upload them to YouTube. In fact, I encourage them to continue because it helps bring new blood to the community, which is always good. Truth be told, I used to be a fan of HD and I was one of the first people to subscribe to his channel back when he was doing War3 commentaries in preparation for SC2 beta.
Unfortunately, it became painfully obvious over time that he has sub-par skills and sub-par commentary. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, honestly. He just happened to be in the right place at the time with a top-of-the-line computer, presumably high bandwidth, and a pretty decent voice for casting.
However, in my opinion, it was a mistake to invite him to cast a high profile event. Simply being an opportunist doesn't make you qualified for such a position. It reflects poorly on the high level competitive nature of the game when you have gold-level players watching a game and noticing things that the caster doesn't. For those of you familiar with the HoN scene, Breakycpk is another prime example of this.
To reiterate, I do like HD and Husky and respect their drive. I don't blame them for taking full advantage of their situation; they'd be idiots not to. I blame MLG for not properly assessing their abilities.
Please, MLG, leave HD and Husky out of any future events and let Day9 and JP take over full-time duties. HD and Husky have their own tournament coming up soon to occupy them anyway.
Now that we get to see the two teams casting side by side I have also found a striking difference between the two. While HD and Huskey are casting they miss SO MUCH, compared to when Day9 and JP are casting. For example during the long socke vs drewbie game. They didnt even know he was building a mothership! Like how can you miss that. It just popped out of nowhere and suprised everyone. I even see stuff on the screen that even I think is important that they don't see or overlook.
Day9 is such a character and is also more insightful than both HD and Huskey. He is more entertaining and fun to watch. While Day9 and JP were talking before the games started I was literally laughing my ass off because they were so funny. Basically, I cannot see HD and Huskey filling in time between games without it being dull and boring, considering their personalities.
HD had to tell Husky at least 5 times for Husky to use 'suggest' to get one of the players invited to the match because the player wasn't on JP's friend list (HD was using JP's account). Husky was looking at his computer screen dumbfounded for a good 2-3 minutes while HD kept telling him. WTF Husky??? This was the worst part of the cast because there was a lot of silence and no talk about the game at all.
After all the technical BS was sorted out HD and Husky were alright for the rest of the day.
Day9 said some long jokes in the middle of some games while there were things that he or JP could have talked about. While I do love his jokes, I don't think it's very professional for a caster to spend 20-30 seconds saying a joke in the middle of a match and it's BM towards the other caster.
JP has much better chemistry with Day9 than d.apollo did but Day9 seems like he doesn't give his co-casters a chance to talk unless he's out of ideas. Another way to put it is Day9 is a really aggressive speaker. There was once when they both started to say "Welcome back..." after a commercial break and then JP shut up and Day9 didn't give him a chance to talk for at least a minute. I love Day9's commentary but it doesn't seem like he really gives his co-casters a chance to be equal.
Man you SC2 guys got it good. Im new to starcraft and i think all 4 of them are fantastic commentators. I was pro in gears of war 1 & 2 for 3 years in MLG and let me tell you our commentators were horrendous....Like no joke bad we had commentators getting fired cause being drunk while doing games and flirting with girls while on air.... Im not kidding you could look up some GoW VODs if you wanna see bad commentating...
In short, be grateful for the guys that you have cause they shit on so many other video game commentators.
On August 28 2010 13:25 sAfuRos wrote: Going to sleep soon so i'll be rather blunt
HD is awful. He has a good quality stream but with MLG that is null. He doesn't know what is going on, can't predict the games, can't predict strategy, doesn't understand matchups very much, and misses everything that is important
Husky is better, but lets HD spout his nonsense and it makes him seem worse. Husky also misses important things that are going on, but knows more.
But yes, HD is just....oh god. At least he doesn't talk about "chrono boosting his probes for the economy" as if its revolutionary anymore. Like, really, chrono boosting probes for economy? I thought it was for a fucking probe rush, chrono is such a proskill and you never see it
/agree
(On a side note, I wish there were a way to show support for someone's comment without adding a useless post.)
On August 28 2010 14:00 MercurialGaming wrote: Guys instead of calling them out and saying they're bad commentators how about you go commentate some crap and we'll see how much you get ridiculed. It's not nice is it? If you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything at all.
It's a feedback thread on the casting, not a compliments thread. If we don't tell them what they did wrong in addition to what we liked, how are they every going to improve?
I agree with this, but still, the amount of crap these two guys get for casting is ridiculous, and the fact that most of it is just nonconstructive insults (like the comment below you) is really unfair to them.
While Day9 is definitely a better caster than either HD or Husky, the fact is he has a lot more experience then them in the SC community. Both of them work hard at what they do, and, as time goes by, they will get better.
I giggled when HDH said that auto turrets can't shoot up, but while I'm not exactly a fan, I wouldn't call myself an anti fan either.
I still love seans casting, its always so enthusiastic, and since his 100th episode I feel that he connects with viewer more than just on a commentator to viewer aspect/
On August 28 2010 14:52 phuzi0n wrote: JP has much better chemistry with Day9 than d.apollo did but Day9 seems like he doesn't give his co-casters a chance to talk unless he's out of ideas. Another way to put it is Day9 is a really aggressive speaker. There was once when they both started to say "Welcome back..." after a commercial break and then JP shut up and Day9 didn't give him a chance to talk for at least a minute. I love Day9's commentary but it doesn't seem like he really gives his co-casters a chance to be equal.
I think thats why JP and Day9 work so well together. JP doesn't seem to mind taking a backseat, and is able to give direction to Day9 either by pointing out things that Day9 didn't notice due to being in the middle of explaining something else, or simply by starting discussions with Day9. JP can provide the play-by-play while Day9 jumps in to highlight whenever something crucial or important is happening. This is why HDH struggle, because both of them are trying to do both a play-by-play and an analysis at the same time which is one of the reasons they miss so many seemingly obvious things. With Day9 and D'Apollo, both of them were very vocal and both wanted to give their analyses which is why there were so many awkward clashes. (i.e. DApollo: A great move to get X unit. Day9: I agree. I think getting X unit was a big mistake. DApollo: Yeah, I agree.) You can make any caster look fantastic if you pair them with the right person.
HD and Husky seemed nervous and untrained about being in front of a camera. But I enjoyed their coverage.
HD calling units by the wrong name and some of the analysis mistakes were probably due to nerves, but their enthusiasm made up for it. Overall I enjoyed their segments more that Day 9',s although probably because they drew the better games.
With a little practice and training I think they will be professional enough. And too much polish makes you like Bob Costas...I'd rather hear a John Madden.
So cut them some slack, they just need some experience.
Husky and HD do make a lot of mistakes, however, I love them because they are so energetic and you can tell they have a lot of fun. Plus, the stupid stupid jokes they make are fucking random and awesome. =]
idk why people have to be so critical, just chill out and enjoy the event. All 4 casters did a good job and it was fun to watch with exciting matches (actual gameplay being far more important than casting) Its pretty obv Day9 is more entertaining due to his more relaxed and less predictable statements, but Husky and HD did a good job overall too.
In my opinion, of course Day9 and JP are leagues better than Husky and HD, but that's also because Day9 and JP have had much, much more experience live casting.
I say: just give Husky and HD some time for them to acclimate themselves to the true Starcraft commentary scene (as opposed to their usual Youtube replays). The two can be obnoxiously wrong at times, but they also can be quite entertaining. I think they have potential; they just need more experience .
I think HDH should be invited to more live events such as MLG.The experience is good for them,this was their first and they were nervous but I believe that around the end they were doing much better.
Of course there is another thing I I need to point out which is the fact that Day[9] would give them tips.I'd expect them to feel better for tomorrow's cast.
My biggest criticism of HDH is that they should look at the camera during the downtime between matches.
I thought their commentary was pretty good though, and really I feel like a lot of the mis-speaking that happens is just because they rush a little bit. If they slowed down and relaxed just a little bit more I think it could really help out. Obviously though nerves played a factor during some of that.
I guess my #1 advice for them is to put forth just a little more practice time towards playing the game and commentating on it. I don't know if perhaps they are overworking on setting up websites and tournaments and things that would distract them from being able to do that.
Still, I think they did a great job and it was nothing less than I expected :D They were a little bit mortified at the beginning but by the end they had a great rhythm and they definitely brought some much needed hype to the more epic games of the tournament.
As for Day9, I think he is doing much better in this tourney than in the IEM. I don't really know much about JP and to be honest I kind of didn't notice him very much.
I think we can all agree those Halo guys from the Old Spice report dragged everything down a notch. =P
On August 28 2010 14:52 phuzi0n wrote: JP has much better chemistry with Day9 than d.apollo did but Day9 seems like he doesn't give his co-casters a chance to talk unless he's out of ideas. Another way to put it is Day9 is a really aggressive speaker. There was once when they both started to say "Welcome back..." after a commercial break and then JP shut up and Day9 didn't give him a chance to talk for at least a minute. I love Day9's commentary but it doesn't seem like he really gives his co-casters a chance to be equal.
But that's exactly why Day[9] and JP make such a good casting team. Day[9] has a dominating 'active' casting personality while JP has a tolerant 'reactive' one. JP knows very well that he doesn't have nearly the level of strategic insight that Day[9] does into SC games and he knows just as well that he doesn't have the same ability to talk endlessly and continue to be entertaining. He lets his co-caster take care of that and provides more 'stability' during the casts by watching the minimap, watching the player's bases, watching the unit movements, and bringing the information to Day[9]'s attention. He keeps him fed with new data to talk about and grounded in what's happening in the game. He does a really good job at the more 'businessman' parts of the casts, and can do entertaining colour commentary when called upon as well. It also doesn't hurt that he can break out some pretty sharp-witted comments during their banter. I'm not saying that this is the only good arrangement that two casters can share, or even that it's the best one, but Day[9] and JP are obviously comfortable in their roles together and it shows in how smoothly they operate.
edit- looks like torm said basically the same last page.
I honestly would have no issue with HD/H if they did 2 things:
1: Husky calm down a tiny bit. Sometimes it's a little over the top and too forceful. Often times it works well, but when it doesn't it falls really, really flat.
2: It's better to say something like, "I'll be curious to see his tech route with that double gas so early. He could be teching to heavy mech play or maybe banshees (etc)" instead of simply always guessing what they'll be doing flat out. Extrapolating a little if needed, but simply guessing all the time looks pretty poor if your overall knowledge isn't as high on the players or game in general.
edit for clarification: If you have solid knowledge of the game or players in general to make assumptions or good predictions about playstyle/bo's, then feel free to do so. If you're just trying to wing it then it wont end quite as well so you're better off being in suspense yourself than simply guessing on air.
Every time Husky said "SAKE" for Socke I wanted to punch him. I just found it incredibly annoying, dunno exactly why.
My criticism is pretty much like everyone else, HDH lacks analytical abilities and as a higher level viewer, I just cringe every time they make a blatantly incorrect statement. Their camera control skills are ok, I can't say I've been very annoyed by it. However, I have noticed times where something happens that surprised me and I think "why didn't they show this sooner?"
They have the drive so I think they can get there. The energy they have during casts is great and I think their voices are solid enough for casting. But they really need to up their knowledge of the game and put more of that drive into improving their casting if they want to continue to do so.
JP + Day I think is the best casting combo I've seen for SC2 so far. I find them incredibly entertaining and knowledgeable. They also work together and play off each other perfectly.
I haven't read all the comments, so maybe someone already said this, but I think they all are good commentators but for different audiences. HD and Husky are better for casual Starcraft gamers who don't really care for all the details but just want to enjoy watching the game with someone talking about what is basically happening. Day9 and JP are more in depth casters who can really analyze what is going on for the people that want to know everything possible about the game and match ups. For example, one of my friends who doesn't play Starcraft told me he thought Day9 was a terrible caster because he talked about things that my friend felt was meaningless to the game. Some people can't appreciate such in depth casting because they lack the knowledge or love for the game. For these people, Husky and HD are "better" than Day9 and JP.
Now, maybe Husky and HD should not be casting for such a huge event as this; however, they have gained such a huge fan base, especially with newbie players, I think having them cast is good publicity for the event.
On August 28 2010 15:22 CaptnIgnit wrote: Every time Husky said "SAKE" for Socke I wanted to punch him. I just found it incredibly annoying, dunno exactly why.
Wasn't there a thread recently that socke is quoted as how to pronounce his name and it's "zock-eh"? Then again, NoNy tried to convince us all that it was pronouned new-knee. Hah, good luck with that, Tyler.
On August 28 2010 14:44 dacthehork wrote: Honestly It's true
The casting in MLG and other events has been bad/worse than it should be. Another example would be having Adam Sesslar or w.e. at Evo, he casted the SSF4 finals and was completely wrong most of the time. They put in casters that are not good due to their popularity/established position. This I guess is "good" for growing it, but don't expect anyone to be thankful we get sub par casting at events that can fly in any caster in the country.
Casting is huge for getting people to actually keep watching/grow, I know tasteless, an amazing caster, get people who might be on the fence about even watching / playing the game and a lot just watch it for the commentary.
That's a terrible example, Adam Sesslar was god awful to begin with.
Seems more of a bash thread, haven't seen many posts actually giving constructive criticism
On August 28 2010 13:21 slam wrote: However, as the game has progressed I feel that they have failed to keep up with their quality of commentary when compared to the rest of the communities commentators despite their huge following on youtube and this tournament has further reinforced my current feelings toward them that they are undeserving of the attention. yada yada
That being said while Husky and HD are being compared to one the best casters in the community it just goes to show how poor of commentaries they are providing. They make very few interesting points, make quite a few errors, and overall put together very poor commentaries in my opinion which lack much color.
I mean it's one thing to bash about how good a commentator is compared to one of the best sc2 analysts in the game currently, but when you walk around the essential problem you don't actually point out anything. Point out those errors he made, explain what "interesting points" he could of touched on.
It's like reading terrible interviews of movies/video games.
At least day9 has improved a lot as a commentator. That chill vs combat ex grudge match commentary he did was a little too angsty for me lol.
Welcome to the community, you must be new Some of the things I've observed:
- Looking at the income tab way to much, viewers want to see what's currently happening in the game while you're talking. Use the production tab more often.
- Husky gets excited prematurely sometimes. Take a breath when something out of the ordinary happens (For instance the random mothership) - This goes back to a comment I read regarding "Him not knowing what he's talking about" it was more of a surprise since you didn't aggressively use the spectator tools provided.
- Husky is a bit loud naturally, mlg should tweak the audio a bit. Might of been more of a MLG issue than anything.
- Look at the camera more when you guys are discussion the game before the matches start (Camera time)
Other than that, it just seems they need to take the time to play the game a bit more. First official sc2 lan. Nerves, commentating next to the god himself day9 [intimidation].
It wasn't as bad as people make it to seem (more hate than anything), the last few games were pretty good compared to all the mediocre commentators that popup on youtube.
I also think raelcun and chobo (from sc center's observer episode) touched up on some of the shit commentators needs to get familiar with if someone can post those video links
I think HD and Husky's casting while not intentionally would be better suited to a different audience, HD and Husky's casting would be more suited if they were casting the game to people who have little if any exposure to the game.
They're personalities are great and it would probably draw people who have very little e-sports exposure. Day[9] and JP cast for a crowd thats more like TL, people who know the game and follow things really closely.
I think it's simply because HD and Husky don't have the tournament experience that Day[9] has, theres a reason why casters for NFL and NBA and other professional sports generally include those who have played the game at the same level and maybe they would have one or two reporters that have some knowledge along side, but haven't played the game at the same level.
On August 28 2010 15:22 CaptnIgnit wrote: Every time Husky said "SAKE" for Socke I wanted to punch him. I just found it incredibly annoying, dunno exactly why.
Wasn't there a thread recently that socke is quoted as how to pronounce his name and it's "zock-eh"? Then again, NoNy tried to convince us all that it was pronouned new-knee. Hah, good luck with that, Tyler.
HD and Husky admittedly are the ones who got me into watching SC2 replays and commentary, but now that I've played the game myself for a while and watched day9 and a couple of less subscribed commentators out there I just get annoyed watching them cast. It really came to the forefront in this event that they just aren't ready for the big time yet. They do an amazing service to the community, and I think they should definitely be at the MLG event, but I think they should be doing interviews with players and acting more as hosts.
Husky is fun to listen to a lot of the time because he really gets into the game, but it's like having a color commentator without a play-by-play man (I'm talking about the duos used in live sports like baseball). HD should be that play-by-play kind of guy who isn't as funny but has a deep understanding of the game, but he's just not an experienced enough player. They both seem to get caught up watching the same things, and then they miss out because neither one is popping around the rest of the map or watching the minimap for other things going on. They really need to play for themselves some more so that they can learn the matchups better, you can't get a deep understanding of the game from commentating.
Am I the only one that thinks Jp is the weakest commentator? I mean he's literally the coolest guy in the world but he stumbles on his words a lot and seeing as commentating is essentially just inciteful talking, I would see that as a pretty significant flaw.
That being said, Day9 was definitely the champion as it were, getting very excited during the games.
On August 28 2010 15:37 Slipspace wrote: Am I the only one that thinks Jp is the weakest commentator? I mean he's literally the coolest guy in the world but he stumbles on his words a lot and seeing as commentating is essentially just inciteful talking, I would see that as a pretty significant flaw.
That being said, Day9 was definitely the champion as it were, getting very excited during the games.
jp is working on the casting skills with his round up thing... however, he complements day9 perfectly as previous posts stated
We need wheat/chill commentating. Wheat has the best commentator voice in the world. Seriously I still remember that WCG where he basically was a newb and didn't know anything and STILL had all of us excited about the games.
On August 28 2010 15:44 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: We need wheat/chill commentating. Wheat has the best commentator voice in the world. Seriously I still remember that WCG where he basically was a newb and didn't know anything and STILL had all of us excited about the games.
Seriously WHEAT BEST TO DO IT YO ~
I really thought he'd be at least at the event when they had him on as a guest before the tournament. I was pumped for that but I can't really complain about the casting.
Yeah, HD and Husky aren't 12 year veterans of the game, but their style doesn't really bother me.
HD and Husky seemed fairly good to me, they are only going to get better with more experience. Obviously if you are comparing them to Day 9 its pretty unrealistic expectations for them to be on that level.
all the people saying HD doesn't know what he's talking about sorta reminds me of one of the first games HD commentated. It was a 2v2 and it was blatantly obvious that his ally was terrible yet HD kept a very patient and ignorant tone as to not disrespect him in his commentary.
I've seen HD play and he is really good. Having listened to his casting since he began making SC2 videos and also seeing him play really makes me think that these "ignorant" comments he makes in his commentary are made on purpose to make it simple and easy for the majority of his subscribers (non-elitists that just want to sit back and watch a game rather then think about why every little decision was made). You can still hear this kind of style in his commentary in his latest videos of Idra vs. Drewbie game where its blatantly obvious to any moron that a single 2 base terran bio-mech ball taking out 4 maxed ultralisk armies in a row from a 6 base zerg is imbalanced. Yet you will notice HD maintains his ignorance and neutrality throughout the commentary.
HD plays zerg very well (not pro obviously) so he knows alot about TvZ and probably personally agrees with all the rage people have about the MU. I don't expect him to go into in depth game analysis because his subscribers have already expressed that they like his commentating as it is. All 196,000 of them.
Agree with every point in OP. I still subscribe and watch most of HDH's videos but finding myself not doing so more recently and watching today while they were on was pretty disappointing and I kept wishing for the D9JP to start back up asap.
On August 28 2010 16:00 Onlinejaguar wrote: HD and Husky seemed fairly good to me, they are only going to get better with more experience. Obviously if you are comparing them to Day 9 its pretty unrealistic expectations for them to be on that level.
Why? Why is it so wrong to compare them to other casters? Whats keeping them from casting at the same "level" that someone else is? Way I see it, if there are better casters at a major event like MLG, then the best should be put in rather then HDH just so that they "can gain experience" when they already had quite a lot under their belt to even get them considered casting at MLG. They have no excuse.
Really, if HD had much better game sense, if Husky could keep his enthusiasm for key moments while and they both could keep a conversation going about anything even when "technical issues" arise without repeating something over and over (noting the problems they had starting one of the games), then I wouldn't mind them as much. But they cant. Whenever an oddball gets thrown at their feet they really dont know what to do, and that's what ticks me off the most.
On August 28 2010 16:01 mufin wrote: all the people saying HD doesn't know what he's talking about sorta reminds me of one of the first games HD commentated. It was a 2v2 and it was blatantly obvious that his ally was terrible yet HD kept a very patient and ignorant tone as to not disrespect him in his commentary.
I've seen HD play and he is really good. Having listened to his casting since he began making SC2 videos and also seeing him play really makes me think that these "ignorant" comments he makes in his commentary are made on purpose to make it simple and easy for the majority of his subscribers (non-elitists that just want to sit back and watch a game rather then think about why every little decision was made). You can still hear this kind of style in his commentary in his latest videos of Idra vs. Drewbie game where its blatantly obvious to any moron that a single 2 base terran bio-mech ball taking out 4 maxed ultralisk armies in a row from a 6 base zerg is imbalanced. Yet you will notice HD maintains his ignorance and neutrality throughout the commentary.
HD plays zerg very well (not pro obviously) so he knows alot about TvZ and probably personally agrees with all the rage people have about the MU. I don't expect him to go into in depth game analysis because his subscribers have already expressed that they like his commentating as it is. All 196,000 of them.
This. HD simplifies everything to a fault and, in turn, starts talking too fast and mashing words together or missing them altogether. For example, if a terran gets banshees, HD will go on about how good they are against ground units and will keep bringing it up every time the banshees do ANYTHING. He just needs to realize that most of his subscribers/fans aren't retarded numb-skulls and that you don't have to explain every little thing every time like we've never played the game before.
As I've improved at SC2, I follow HDH less and less. Day9's casts have more relevant information for me. However, for the majority of players (exceptions applying to anyone who knows of Team Liquid's existence), the Day9 style is completely inappropriate. It's too advanced, and it gets players caught up in the wrong thing. Most players don't care about the differences between a 10 gate and a 13 gate (indeed, most players probably don't even know there IS a difference). For those players, HDH is much better suited, and they will learn more from Husky and HD than they ever will from Day9.
I was very impressed by all castors especially HD and Husky. I think they did very well considering their lack of experiance. The calling units the wrong names was a tinsy issue but not worth really worrying about.
I don't know about JP though, he just didn't sound as interesting as the rest.
I thought they all did a pretty good job. HD and Husky obviously are not on the level of Day9, but that's a bit of an unfair standard given Day9's history as a top player. I do think both HD and Husky are probably more suited towards play by play and that limits them as a commentary duo. JP/Day9 on the other hand have clear roles which compliment each other (JP as the play by play, Day9 as the color commentator). HD and Husky try to make up for it with more excitement, which sometimes works but other times feels contrived. I think they get criticized for the latter, and rightfully so in some cases, but I don't think its too big of an issue and doesn't detract from the cast too much. Regardless, HDH are bringing most of their 150k subscribers to the stream, which a fantastic deal for MLG from a marketing perspective and probably makes the success of SC2 at the event a forgone conclusion.
......................Husky>HD>day9. I think day9 has more exp in sc2 than husky and hd. He's a good player who making a 1h show everyday talking about strategy while husky and hd just upload great entertaining commentary giving us streamers the feeling that sc2 is not boring to watch.
Day is an awesome commentator no doubt about that. He has strategic insight and is still able to bring a joke here and there. But what bothers me about him, is that he interprets stuff in every single move a player does even if it's something marginal like placing a supply depot somewhere in the main. From time to time I think that he should talk a bit less because some stuff is absolutely pointless. Not every depot has a deciding impact on a match.
HD and husky are terrible, HD goes on and on about the same thing and brings stuff back up alot if said unit is doing something, Husky can be entertaining to some with his craziness and screaming while day9 is much better since he doesnt miss nearly as much and has much more strategic input, HD and Husky just have more popularity due to the HD Quality and frequent uploads, a friend of mine will only go by videos he watches of HD and Husky and credits them for everything even stuff like the 1-1-1 Terran build which is ridiculus
HD and Husky should split up and do the call while more experienced players cover the color. The main problem I see with their team is that they both kind of fill the same role and so there's not really any balance. They kind of talk over each other say the same stuff.
I'm not hating on their skills - commentating on matches is difficult, and everyone talking shit should try it once and see how it goes. If HD were to find a top 20 ladder player with a good radio voice to do analysis for him it would be an awesome show.
Day9 and Husky are awesome. I'm beginning to dislike HD a lot more recently, simply because of the way he speaks. In the last match they casted (Socke and Drewbie) he said "Ladies and Gentlemen!" like 15 times. It was REALLY starting to get on my nerves. It reminded me of that game during the HDH when he kept saying "That's all she wrote".
Day and Chill are my favorite commentators by far. In my opinion, a good commentator has to be fun to listen to - but a great commentator has to also know the game extremely well. The two I mentioned are definitely interesting to listen to, and in BW they understood strategy very well (even though Chill was "only" B- or B, he a) understood way more strategy than most amateur commentators and b) knew his limits, i.e. if he wasn't sure about the strategic implications of a decision he'd defer to a more expert cocommentator if one was available).
JP is certainly fine to listen to, and he both knows some strategy and has learned when to defer in matters that're over his head. Hence I have no problem with him as a cocommentator if his partner knows what's up.
HD and Husky can only ever hope to satisfy the "fun to listen to" part, since they just don't know that much strategy. Neither has ever been anything special in either BW or SC2, and it shows when they fail to notice things that are obvious to me (C- in BW and I haven't even bought SC2 yet). It's totally fine for people like them to commentate; right now, there're way too many events for the top few commentators to cover anyway. I just find it a little strange when people compare them to someone like Day, who's providing a much different (and harder to find) service.
Obviously Day9 knows more about the game than both of them combined. But HD and Husky are way more entertaining, they arent always trying to be serious.
When i watch a game i get most of what is going on, i know most of the strats, i'm not looking for some super serious dude to tell me that, i just want an entertaining commentary that i relax to while watching the game.
The same thing with day9, what i like about him isnt his commentary (although it's great) it's that he is a really funny guy and entertaining to listen to.
So people "hating" on HD and Husky should realise that it isnt just about who knows more about the game. Personally i'd like to say Day9 and Husky commentate together
Obviously Day9 knows more about the game than both of them combined. But HD and Husky are way more entertaining, they arent always trying to be serious.
They would be entertaining if they didn't say stupid shit. 2 Gate on steppes of war not standard against Terran?
I think this is very similar to the BigT situation in that a lot of people are jealous that the new up-and-coming commentators are making the moves at the right time and gaining a lot of popularity at an astoundingly fast rate. You may not like them because they aren't what you're 'used to', but you can't knock them for capitalizing on an opportunity like that. They were smart in that regard and I know they will use those smarts to continue improving the analytical side of their casts.
No one starts out good. Everyone looks like an idiot when they try something new. It's just how it works. As a community we're supposed to be here to support them while this happens, not tear them down.
You know I am a talk show enthusiast (some day I'd like to have a show) and here's what I have learned from my observations. This could be taken as constructive feedback and if you disagree don't go all "motherfucka you don't know shit" just say you disagree and why.
To summarise. I think Husky and HD need work but they aren't terrible at all, they just need to keep some pointers in mind. And JP looks so good because he's with Day[9] first off and secondly is a Diamond league player who analyses his game (as was evident in his podcast).
I posted this analysis in my blog if someone doesn't want to read through the whole thing here.
The Flow In any talk show you'll see that the most important thing is the flow of the conversation. Certain masters have it within them to keep people entertained by constantly talking. However the only way to make this seem unnatural is to talk in the story flow. That is either building up a previous thread and adding new insights or to pick up a new interjection and tie it in. Because every story has a beginning and ending and involves high points of drama.
This was evident with Day[9] and not so much with JP. Day9 picks up a story while they were waiting for the audience and then ties it back to the game. It also has a lot to do with being very comfortable in front of the camera. Which HD and Husky seem to lack. So point here is to either think of the flow before hand (eg:- I will start with talking about the map, then some interesting thing i saw in a replay, then end it with what this guy did different and what is coming up next or what could be interesting in this map or different matchups on this map).
You can see how much experience plays a factor here because DJWheats a master of this. His flow is so good you almost think he knows Starcraft 2 through in and out but if you observe carefully you'll see he pauses to let the other player offer insight because they know more than him. The tag-teaming part is very important here which is a thing HD and Husky aren't quite getting. They go silent together, they don't compliment each other on humour or flow (explained below). But nothing's terrible, just needs practice.
The Humour Humour, in conversation (and in dating) is a vital element. If you cannot be funny, you cannot succeed. This doesn't mean you start in with yo mama jokes. You gauge the audience and then supplement your commentary accordingly.
The thing with Husky and HD is that they are very game specific joke tellers. They use units and very specific inner jokes to highlight something funny. Day[9] and Tasteless (who is a master of this btw) use jokes that humanise the situation a lot more. They can instantly relate it to something funny outside the game and hence appear to be more than just game-nerds.
The Analysis This is the key difference between both the teams. Day[9] has very very strategic insights and since he's a great player is able to quickly distinguish what the player is going to do and then explain why or why not the player is doing what he is doing.
On contrast Tasteless emphasises on the humour part but doesn't lay out a strategic plan. He does a better job explaining the current status of the game, as opposed to the future path that the players are going to take. This is what Husky and HD fall into the in game right now thinking.
Artosis is a master in this analysis game. He is not funny but recognises humour quickly. He'd pass as an intelligent guy but not a charismatic guy. But if you want to really "learn" the game you need a guy like Artosis. If you want to stay entertained you need a guy like Tasteless. Day9's almost perfectly in between and hence he's so good.
The Mechanics
You can't offer insight into a game if you haven't played it yourself at the highest level. Talking about flanking and back door entry, macro micro supply blocking etc etc are all things you know when you play enough. I don't want to comment on that part but from what I saw Husky and HD clearly don't play the game at the highest level. You can't talk about muta micro or building positioning importance if you don't know about it. This was again a tactic that Day9 uses to one up the competition.
Chill btw is very good at this too along with the fact that his flow and humour are very very good.
That's not saying much that toss that played nadagast was terrible for an 800 diamond player so this is not their fault.
The Camera Angle and looks
This is something I read. But if you look weird and scrubby then you are mentally (and subconsciously) perceieved to be inferior. Im not calling anyone out on looks cause hey that's genetic. And we all dont think we look good anyway. But I'd suggest taking a good angle to show your face to the camera at whenever you talk. That's why you'll almost always see models pose to the right or left and show part of their profile when they take pictures and not a frontal assault. This is esp true of fat guys (like me) to take note of.
This is no ones fault but the camera man's to find out what looks good and then relay it. It wouldn't help husky to comb his hair a bit and appear neater (pushing your hair back and giving it a wet look perhaps).
Voice Modulation The second most important thing after the flow is the voice modulation. Day9s just really gifted in the department and has improved with his training of his dailies. In research there is a perfect pitch or vocal tone that human beings have that are instantly melodious to hear. That's why when someone sounds like a tin drum you are instantly put off because their base resonant vibration of their pitch is hurting to the hears. But it's also tied in with the image to a large extent (ever found a super hot woman talking like a man hotter than a super hot woman talking in a softer tone?) of how you appear to be.
Tasteless goes in thinking hes a pimp and knowing hes going to come out as one. There's that confidence that translates into charisma. Artosis knows he cant match that so he goes in as a professor. It boils down to your style really and Day9 picks up the standup style while JP knows his role as Watson (or Robin).
Husky and HD unfortunately haven't really figured out their style yet. Except to talk really fast and thus come across as no voice modulation. At one point when they scream about the raid on a protosses base my roommate comes screaming in saying why are you watching rape videos at 3 am (prolly my mistake for not having headphones). As the excitement builds up husky should prevent himself from squealing. That is really really unpleasant.
Look at Tasteless getting excited he shouts and does all that jing bang but doesn't resort to a twang pitch.
Stamina This is where I think everyones on par. They are all doing a great job casting and keeping the energy and rythm you can really see they love what they are doing here.
And I fail here because I can't write anymore lol.
I like all of them.... it's just that when i watch Day[9] and JP i know that i'll get more insight out of it than HD and Husky as they tend to miss some things (like seeing the corrupters in production, and wonder why, when the greater spire's icon is right next to it)
I like HD and husky as people and respect that they do alot to get people into the starcraft scene but personally i just find them difficult to listen to, husky is knowledgeable but tends to ramble at 100 words a second, while HD gives a feeling of 'fake' in his excited voice, it just doesnt feel he is naturally excited or interested in a big event on screen and is forcing it which could be the case after criticism about been excited, you can never win eh? Im willing to tune into their commentaries but i dont feel they deserve something like MLG just yet as they are very new to live commentary, maybe do some smaller tournaments that arnt done on vods.
Obviously Day9 knows more about the game than both of them combined. But HD and Husky are way more entertaining, they arent always trying to be serious.
They would be entertaining if they didn't say stupid shit. 2 Gate on steppes of war not standard against Terran?
It's just a minor mistake who cares? I know that when a Zerg goes 6 pool he's probably cheesing, i dont need anyone to tell me that, i'd rather have commentators talking about IdrA's BM, or how cute a probe looks.
If HD said "proxy 6 rax, he's probably going for a macro game" he probably just made a mistake, so just relax, the entertaining part of a commentary is not the explaining of a strategy, but the enthusiasm and crazyness about the commentators I love that Husky screams storm all the time, and that day9 whips his fingers or whatever
I really envy the amount of passion when listening to koreans commentating, its more emotional and fun to listen to. Please go this direction. And no, that is not too much to ask, if we want this game to be amazing to watch.
I appreciate that we have casters showing up, we need this, we also need to encourage HDH to be better, cause lets be honest, they have something day9 does not have. Insight will come to HDH, but they have excitement which we sorely need right now. I am not a fan of any casters right now, so dont put me into some fanboy container.
The only thing that annoys me about casters is when they talk about obvious stuff. It just bugs me because it almost treats me like a retard and that the caster has to take me hand through the game.
On August 28 2010 13:25 sAfuRos wrote: Going to sleep soon so i'll be rather blunt
HD is awful. He has a good quality stream but with MLG that is null. He doesn't know what is going on, can't predict the games, can't predict strategy, doesn't understand matchups very much, and misses everything that is important
Husky is better, but lets HD spout his nonsense and it makes him seem worse. Husky also misses important things that are going on, but knows more.
But yes, HD is just....oh god. At least he doesn't talk about "chrono boosting his probes for the economy" as if its revolutionary anymore. Like, really, chrono boosting probes for economy? I thought it was for a fucking probe rush, chrono is such a proskill and you never see it
I'll probably get mobbed, but I completely agree with this. Ever since the transition to SC2, I've felt this way. He was better in SC1 imo.
Maybe it's counter-intuitive for me to make this post, but I really hope that HD improves his commentating. He's the play-by-play provider but his analysis is often wrong or just plain trivial.
Husky is a funny commentator and his analysis is decent, but I find that he gets distracted way too much for a game like SC2, which is quite a short game.
Nonetheless, I'll keep supporting HD and Husky and watching some of their videos and events. I've been following Husky since he had 100 subscribers and he's probably still one of my favourite commentators (along with Cholera, Diggity and Day[9]).
Husky is the John Madden of Starcraft. He points out the obvious and isnt particularly knowledgable about what he is talking about. However, he ramps up the excitement of a battle better than any other caster out there. If you were to have him co-cast with day9, it would be perfect. day9 for analysis, husky for stupid-yet-awesome jokes. I like both casters.
I like Day9 a lot and JP is decent, i think he has improved quite a bit since the king of the beta
Husky and HD.. they did fine considering it was their first time doing anything like this. They also had to figure out how to work together (Day9 and JP have cast kotb together so they already had this down pretty much). One thing that bothers me about Husky is he rarely looks at the camera and he goes on hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee run on sentences saying and and and and and 500 times, while talking really fast and it just kinda pains me. I like HD's voice a lot better than husky's as well.
But I appreciate all the streams/casts/games/sc2 in general that these guys bring to us, and for this I like them all.
I hope these type of threads don't pop up everytime HD & Husky cast @ MLG b/c I'm pretty sure they will continue to be invited to future MLG events. That being said they can improve but I think that takes time. Their game knowledge, mini-map awareness and even mouse control could all stand to improve.
Now that the constructive criticism is out of the way some positives from having these two at this event. They attract the casual crowd, they have 200k+ suscribers who listen to their every word and that is very powerful. Lots of people will say there are better casters but I ask where are they? These two are prolific, they pump out more videos than the rest of the community combined,(exaggeration) they also provide excitement which allows those who don't understand the details of the game to appreciate what is going on.
Point being they did a lot of hard work to get to where they are today. Those who wish to get their names out there now will have to work hard to do so but they have paved the way.
Personally I enjoyed all the casting and I found day9's and Jp's casts to be less enjoyable b/c they got the crappier games. I'm more interested in the matches than the casting. Husky and HD lucked out and got some amazing matches to cast.
The most important point of all is TL.net may not be their target audience and that's OK.
I have to say when I'm just looking to 'sit back and watch a bit of Starcraft' I really like HD and Husky, in terms of a bit of fail analysis, I can generally recognize the mistake myself, but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment, and I don't see how it does to everyone else unless you are pretty obsessive about it, they make like 1/2 cast max.
I think it's important to have casters like this, *especially* at high profile events, in order for the community to continue to grow. Four Day9s talking about pylon placement 24/7 would put off loads of people, whereas at IEM the other week I found myself watching a bit of Quake instead of just turning off, and I think good commentators greatly facilitated this. I'm not saying that's all Day9 does, he is very charismatic and funny, but just to emphasize the overkill on *oh god they don't know shit about the game*
Imo a lot of this negative stuff comes from the fact that people focus on it too much, probably because of the culture that has developed around it, minor slips that shouldn't bother people seem to, disproportionately so, people saying they're too bad to be casting and have to mute the stream I mean seriously get it together it's ridiculous.
In terms of room for improvement camera work could use a great deal I strongly agree on that, I think they are scared to jump around too much for fear of being annoying but I'd like to see them drop out of a battle for 1or2 seconds just to update on the harass situations a bit more. I also picked up on the aversion to looking at the camera which became disconcerting (moreso once I saw it mentioned ).
Hmm.. Well, you know how hard it is to be casting against day9 and JP? Day9 is probably the most entertaining/informative caster in the world (maybe better than tasteless??? hmm?? lol). Trying to say that HD/husky are not as good as him and JP is obvious because day9 is awesome. But yeah I guess HD and husky were a let down, they seemed nervous
You know Im listening to Gretorp vs Silver by Husky and HD after sleeping last night and they aren't bad with the flow. The analysis is missing but Husky's doing a darn good job for being a first timer at a LAN.
You know I am a talk show enthusiast (some day I'd like to have a show) and here's what I have learned from my observations. This could be taken as constructive feedback and if you disagree don't go all "motherfucka you don't know shit" just say you disagree and why.
To summarise. I think Husky and HD need work but they aren't terrible at all, they just need to keep some pointers in mind. And JP looks so good because he's with Day[9] first off and secondly is a Diamond league player who analyses his game (as was evident in his podcast).
I posted this analysis in my blog if someone doesn't want to read through the whole thing here.
The Flow In any talk show you'll see that the most important thing is the flow of the conversation. Certain masters have it within them to keep people entertained by constantly talking. However the only way to make this seem unnatural is to talk in the story flow. That is either building up a previous thread and adding new insights or to pick up a new interjection and tie it in. Because every story has a beginning and ending and involves high points of drama.
This was evident with Day[9] and not so much with JP. Day9 picks up a story while they were waiting for the audience and then ties it back to the game. It also has a lot to do with being very comfortable in front of the camera. Which HD and Husky seem to lack. So point here is to either think of the flow before hand (eg:- I will start with talking about the map, then some interesting thing i saw in a replay, then end it with what this guy did different and what is coming up next or what could be interesting in this map or different matchups on this map).
You can see how much experience plays a factor here because DJWheats a master of this. His flow is so good you almost think he knows Starcraft 2 through in and out but if you observe carefully you'll see he pauses to let the other player offer insight because they know more than him. The tag-teaming part is very important here which is a thing HD and Husky aren't quite getting. They go silent together, they don't compliment each other on humour or flow (explained below). But nothing's terrible, just needs practice.
The Humour Humour, in conversation (and in dating) is a vital element. If you cannot be funny, you cannot succeed. This doesn't mean you start in with yo mama jokes. You gauge the audience and then supplement your commentary accordingly.
The thing with Husky and HD is that they are very game specific joke tellers. They use units and very specific inner jokes to highlight something funny. Day[9] and Tasteless (who is a master of this btw) use jokes that humanise the situation a lot more. They can instantly relate it to something funny outside the game and hence appear to be more than just game-nerds.
The Analysis This is the key difference between both the teams. Day[9] has very very strategic insights and since he's a great player is able to quickly distinguish what the player is going to do and then explain why or why not the player is doing what he is doing.
On contrast Tasteless emphasises on the humour part but doesn't lay out a strategic plan. He does a better job explaining the current status of the game, as opposed to the future path that the players are going to take. This is what Husky and HD fall into the in game right now thinking.
Artosis is a master in this analysis game. He is not funny but recognises humour quickly. He'd pass as an intelligent guy but not a charismatic guy. But if you want to really "learn" the game you need a guy like Artosis. If you want to stay entertained you need a guy like Tasteless. Day9's almost perfectly in between and hence he's so good.
The Mechanics
You can't offer insight into a game if you haven't played it yourself at the highest level. Talking about flanking and back door entry, macro micro supply blocking etc etc are all things you know when you play enough. I don't want to comment on that part but from what I saw Husky and HD clearly don't play the game at the highest level. You can't talk about muta micro or building positioning importance if you don't know about it. This was again a tactic that Day9 uses to one up the competition.
Chill btw is very good at this too along with the fact that his flow and humour are very very good.
That's not saying much that toss that played nadagast was terrible for an 800 diamond player so this is not their fault.
The Camera Angle and looks
This is something I read. But if you look weird and scrubby then you are mentally (and subconsciously) perceieved to be inferior. Im not calling anyone out on looks cause hey that's genetic. And we all dont think we look good anyway. But I'd suggest taking a good angle to show your face to the camera at whenever you talk. That's why you'll almost always see models pose to the right or left and show part of their profile when they take pictures and not a frontal assault. This is esp true of fat guys (like me) to take note of.
This is no ones fault but the camera man's to find out what looks good and then relay it. It wouldn't help husky to comb his hair a bit and appear neater (pushing your hair back and giving it a wet look perhaps).
Voice Modulation The second most important thing after the flow is the voice modulation. Day9s just really gifted in the department and has improved with his training of his dailies. In research there is a perfect pitch or vocal tone that human beings have that are instantly melodious to hear. That's why when someone sounds like a tin drum you are instantly put off because their base resonant vibration of their pitch is hurting to the hears. But it's also tied in with the image to a large extent (ever found a super hot woman talking like a man hotter than a super hot woman talking in a softer tone?) of how you appear to be.
Tasteless goes in thinking hes a pimp and knowing hes going to come out as one. There's that confidence that translates into charisma. Artosis knows he cant match that so he goes in as a professor. It boils down to your style really and Day9 picks up the standup style while JP knows his role as Watson (or Robin).
Husky and HD unfortunately haven't really figured out their style yet. Except to talk really fast and thus come across as no voice modulation. At one point when they scream about the raid on a protosses base my roommate comes screaming in saying why are you watching rape videos at 3 am (prolly my mistake for not having headphones). As the excitement builds up husky should prevent himself from squealing. That is really really unpleasant.
Look at Tasteless getting excited he shouts and does all that jing bang but doesn't resort to a twang pitch.
Stamina This is where I think everyones on par. They are all doing a great job casting and keeping the energy and rythm you can really see they love what they are doing here.
And I fail here because I can't write anymore lol.
Very well made out post, even things that my subconscious picked up you put into words.
DJWheat and Chill would be a good duo to invite for some other time, I think. Very knowledgeable and entertaining.
I don't think Husky and HD are too bad though, I was very impressed with how much flow they would have at times and this being their first live event they still have a lot of room to improve.
This is probably first time for Husky and HD to be in front of the crowd and televised so I'm not surprised they were nervous. But they did ok, I'm sure they'll get better at it.
JP seems to take the backseat to Day9, but he's still a pretty good caster.
Husky is pretty good at a more casual, humorous casting style
HD is what I don't like. He constantly tries to hype things up and goes a bit overboard with it ("SOME HOW SOME WAY SOME HOW SOME WAY SOME HOW SOME WAY..."), messes up in words a lot, and goes on tangents. I think it's because he knows that he's "expected" to be a good caster so he tries too hard to be one instead of just relaxing and talking. Just my thoughts on the matter.
I really think all of the commentators were pretty good. I laughed and facepalmed at JP's "SUPPLIES" joke because it was just so deliciously bad, and when HDH and Husky surprisingly exclaimed about the Mothership that just showed up, it really made the match so much better. They might not have known about it, but they might've also just not said anything because they wanted to see what would happen.
They were pretty nervous, as a bunch of people said, and I think even Day9 talked a little too much. It's quite a feat to be able to sit in front of who-knows-how-many people and act like you're not nervous in the least bit. Today's games were still pretty awesome, to me.
Also, does anyone else really want to see a match commentated by both Day9 and Husky? Day9's excellent at analytical stuff, and for everything that you can say about Husky, he's definitely colorful in his commentary. Just kinda think it'd be a good time if they could get used to one another.
Hd or Husky would be fine if they had a knowledgable caster alongside them. Together they just talk a lot of nonsense. We expect fantastic professionalism and hard work from our players and tournament organisers... casting should be the same.
You need someone who's at least a mid-diamond random player (there's LOTS of people who fit this description). Or Hd and Husky could start playing a lot more starcraft themselves and work to get to this level.
My take on the casts, HD and Huskey got off to a rocky start with some technical difficulties, and had some problems filling the time (awkward silence) but they improved. Many seem to think that HD and Huskey is bad, but in my opinion they are not. The "problem" here, is that they are nowhere near Day 9 and JP in terms of commenting. I sat and watched Day 9 tell awesome stories while he waited for games to come up, and he seemed comfortable, which made it easy to watch, and his stories are great. HD and Huskey looked a bit more cramped, but that will probably evolve with time. In Norway we have a saying going something like this "Its like jumping after Wirkola" Wirkola being this really great athlete and skijumper back in the days, and this situation feels somewhat alike. Its really hard to get into the booth after Day9 has been there, simply because he is so great at what he does.
Props to MLG for providing a smooth lagless stream.
For myself, it is hard to add more that has not already been mentioned. I think the problem is that, people watch HD and Husky for various reasons. For the most part, it is to learn about the mechanics of the game, to have insight on what it is that is occurring, and to watch for the sake of entertainment. My reason for watching them is strictly the latter. They made a scene during beta, and were well known. They put out quality videos and had quite a bit of access. This appealed to many people so they were drawn to them. Unfortunately, their commitment to commentating is not equal to that of having significant gaming intelligence.
I watch their videos for entertainment and their ability to for the most part, follow what it happening. I am not looking to them for insight on builds and counters. What I fear may be an issue is that, commentators are already known. It is difficult for potentially great commentators to make an appearance and become noticed while the spotlight is so heavily situation on HD and Husky. I think if you were to ask the general community what they thought of them, they would adore them and think they were the most insightful people out there. By general community, I mean the average bloke, and mostly non-TL users. Day9 on the other hand is my current favorite commentators. I am not saying he is absolutely brilliant, but at least for myself, I know he knows much more then I do. He puts out great videos, and having his blip.tv on hand is quite helpful. He is very entertaining and I do not think fame will ever go to his head. Also, bar-none, his scream is epic.
I mean, look at his followers. He has a large following, and he does not have decked out youtube accounts. He posts what is necessary, and worries a lot on the general quality over aesthetics. In the end, I am not going to bash on HD and Husky. I think they contribute to the community (but potential harm as well) and can be entertaining. But in the end, I am hoping Day9 becomes bigger and looking for new up and coming commentators. Wouldn't mind seeing some more out there.
Two points that stood out to me the most, both from the Silver vs Gretorp games: On steppes HD and Husky went on and on and on about tanks with not a single tank, not even a tech lab on a factory in sight. A small mention how marauders are not bad against tanks would've been fine but that was just unnecessary. Also way too much exaggeration of the quality of the games. Even though the series was quite entertaining I thought both players performed quite poorly, yet somehow every move they made was "brilliant".
I think this mostly stems from talking for the sake of talking and repeating catchphrases, none of which is unfixable if they would take a little more time thinking about what they're saying instead of being afraid of silence and blurping out whatever to get rid of it. :p
husky tends to ramble about random things, and hd can be a little dull, both I think they both did a great job. If you're looking for an intellectual breakdown of the different facets of starcraft 2, you'll be disappointed, but I still think they did a great job as casters.
HD and Husky could be good casters if they would put effort in learning a game instead of doing whatever they can to earn more money off their huge fan base (Splitting videos, selling places for ads in their channel, asking for donations even when getting paid from google partnership, making T-shirts)
Did I mention they got their own starcraft2 website and now trying to be better then teamliquid? :p
edit: I agree with person who said they need someone with knowledge to help them, because they talk a lot of nonsense
My biggest concern with HD and Husky, is that they've both been casting for 6+ months now in VODs and the like, but they don't seem to have changed other than to incorporate "radio voices" which I find really annoying. It almost seems like HD is trying too hard to be a great caster, when he has a decent voice for it and good enough knowledge to get by - if he just went with it rather than forcing it I think it would be al ot better. I don't understand why they completely change their voices when something exciting happens - it comes across as contrived and fake. Husky starts squealing and HD turns into Scruff McGruff.
Also, Husky really should look at the camera more - I think HD definitely looks the more prepared of the two in both appearance and how he acts in front of the camera. He also seemed to be giving Husky opportunities to pick-up the conversation and keep things going during the silence, and then Husky would give a one or two sentence response and we'd have silence for 15 seconds. Very awkward.
I do appreciate what draw they do have to bring more casual players in and I fully understand why MLG went with them. I don't have a strong dislike for HD and Husky - as a lowly amateur caster myself I don't think I could realistically act like what they did early in the beta didn't have an impact on me getting into things myself. Both in Starcraft and in Street Fighter 4 where my main background is - there are people who have really started things and laid a path for the rest of us to follow. Small list of those that have really influenced me in just the past 6-7 months and made me want to get into casting just for the fun of it:
Seb (FADC - Fighting Game streams/casts) Seth Killian (Amazing commentator for fighting games) Day9 Tasteless (I'll be honest hear, I found out about Tasteless after Day9 and I haven't heard too much of his stuff, but what I have found is great) Chill (Similar story to Tasteless, but I've actually found a bit and the BiggerT thing was just magic) HD Starcraft Raelcun (Rael's 36-hour cast is actually what really got me excited about getting into SC2 more as a commentator/streamer oddly enough - now I help the iCCup guys out and it's actually quite a lot of fun and they are all very helpful)
(Just wanted to say, there are tons of casters other than this that I greatly appreciate listening to and have since discovered, this list is just those that stood out as the one's that really made me think that BW/SC2 were enjoyable as spectator sports, and helped me realize just how much fun I have just talking about the game and watching higher level players play)
Commentating on any sport is supposed to follow a very simple format: Play-by-Play/Color Commentary and Insightful Analysis.
Day 9 is almost all insightful analysis while HD/Husky and most casters are completely play-by-play/color commentary.
It's frustrating to watch for any experienced player because the majority of the casts are not directed at the person who understands the game and what is going on but would prefer some exciting play-by-play with analysis thrown in there, but rather the uneducated fan who would prefer to sit at D- for the rest of his/her life, but loves to watch day9 dailies and vods all day long.
As an addendum to my post, there is a reason UFC fans have a love/hate relationship for Mike Goldberg. He is a doofus. He puts on this air of knowing very little and is almost a figure that people love to hate for his "common man's" perception of the fights, but it is designed that way. Mike Goldberg has trained jiujitsu for a long time and is an intelligent analyst.
However, Joe Rogan is more capable in that sense, and as such Goldberg fills the role to provide a foil to Rogan's analysis.
This is a model that SC/SC2 casters should follow more closely.
HD/Husky as a pair are frustrating because they lack insight and still have the audacity/ego to try to assume the role of insight like a Day9. This is off putting.
It is equally so when Day 9 attempts to provide such a quirky style of color commentary when in reality he is better suited to providing insight.
I would think a teaming of HD/Day 9 would be much more enjoyable than HD/Husky or Day9/JP.
JP is by all accounts worthless for casting SC2.
The average TL viewer would probably know more than him, and that's really saying something.
On August 28 2010 19:12 DarkspearTribe wrote: HD and Husky could be good casters if they would put effort in learning a game instead of doing whatever they can to earn more money off their huge fan base (Splitting videos, selling places for ads in their channel, asking for donations even when getting paid from google partnership, making T-shirts)
edit: I agree with person who said they need someone with knowledge to help them, because they talk a lot of nonsense
In their defence. Husky has cited unstable internet connection as the reason his video's are split although he does seem rather enthusiastic about his view rating. I don't know about HD but I haven't heard either of them talk about donations for months.
I appreciate the direction HD is going, he tries to use his big boy caster voice, and he tried to look the part yesterday. He's kind of growing on me, he's not the most knowledgeable at all but I think there's a place for him up there.
I feel almost the direct opposite for Husky. I don't think he has the look or the physical presence to be in front of a camera, he just looks like an awkward, weird kid. I don't think he has the voice for it either. I turned off the stream because of his casting, hearing him get louder and more annoying when he gets excited was just not bearable for me. We all know his level of game knowledge. Just putting it all together, I can't see a reason for him to be up there, I think at this point he almost drags HD down since neither of them truly benefit from having the other there. I applaud his success on youtube and all that, but I feel like he just doesn't have it at all to take his casting further than that.
I just don't get what's the matter with "calls" I think casters/commentators trying to call things in a game is the worst thing EVER. Why would you want to hear them call things? It makes no sense, I want them to comment not to play a game of who gonna have the best call... I don't like calls in general, and good calls are even worst because casters take 5 minutes at least to say they did a good one.
HD Husky = gold level understanding of the game, max platinum. Day9 = Diamond level ++++ understanding of the game.
Ofc day9 will be the better commentator, but having more commentators makes it abit easier for them I guess. Husky HD should learn abit more about the game , cus they keep saying stuff that are dead wrong, and predicting wrong on stuff that are obvious.
I won't go too hard on HD and Husky; I don't follow them that much. But they are entertaining and make ther best to bring the hype. They just feel awfull compared to Day9. but hey who doesn't seem lame compared to the ULTIMATE BEAST CASTER THAT EARTH WILL EVER KNOW.
The only thing missing is "H to the usky Husky" and "seeee you guys next tiiiiime" and i would rip my hair off. He can be extremely annoying to listen to. HD is actually doing alright apart from using "ladies and gentlemen" in every second sentence.
I think we watched the games in Husky's pov(im not sure tho) and he missed out on so many things compared to day 9.
I like the commentaries. The OP seemed to be worshiping Day9 a bit too much. I didnt really watch much of the HD/Husky commentaries so I do not know how 'awful' they were but if they commentate like they do in their streams, it should be good.
I do want to point out that Day9, as amazing as the OP portrays, do have one issue: He needs to remember that he has a partner and need to know how to commentate as a team. Similar to the commentaries during the IEM, his partners always have to force their way in as Day9 just keeps talking and talking and talking.
As others have said, I think the real issue is that HD and Husky are both play by play guys. They don't have the degree of knowledge you need for analysis. HD gets under my skin because he's very inarticulate but that's something he can work on. It also wouldn't be as much of an issue if he had a co-caster who had the knowledge to be the analysis guy. HD might do a better job as sort of the "roving reporter" dude who was just out amongst the players and crowd to do an occasional filler interview or the like.
Day9 kind of does both play by play and analysis while JP just interjects here and their to fill silences. JP seems perfectly fine with that and that's all that really matters. People have accused Day9 of hogging the mic but he's really just a talker. He's a big personality and as long as he's paired with someone who doesn't mind the back seat, like JP, I think it works out great. I think he and JP did a far better job of filling the silences while players were getting set up and logged in than HDH did.
People complained about Day9 and dApollo at IEM and I think the issue there is that they're both analysts and both talkers, so they kind of stepped on each other. It doesn't mean either is bad, just that they don't make the best team. I was watching TotalBiscuit with dApollo at the i40 and I felt they made a much better pair. TB has a reasonable knowledge of the game, is articulate and engaging but also realizes that Apollo has more knowledge and defers to him for analysis of why X may or may not be a good play, etc.
To those calling this a hate thread: I think, as long as the criticism stays constructive there's no reason not to have these conversations. Of course HD and Husky are newer to this than Day9 and JP but they can't improve if there's no way for them to find out how their performances were received. The growth of esports depends on our commentators improving. MLG picked HD and Husky for their viewer base, which is absolutely the right choice at this point IMO. Esports needs to bring new fans in, but they also need to keep them. To keep them, esports needs to deliver a quality product.
Jim Rome and Dan Shulman would probably do better jobs as a broadcasters, unfortunately, ESPN pays them about 10K a week. Considering the production's budget level the commentary is just fine.
On August 28 2010 20:33 Neoattitude wrote: Similar to the commentaries during the IEM, his partners always have to force their way in as Day9 just keeps talking and talking and talking.
Huh what, I really gotta disagree with that, during IEM Apollo talked and talked about non-important stuff while Day9 had to force himself into the conversation to say important stuff. There were moments that I really wished Apollo would just shut the fuck up so we could hear about the more important things going on. Got nothing against Apollo though, he's good, but he and Day9 didn't cast that well together imo.
As for HD/Husky, they miss important stuff all the time, most of their predictions are wrong and it's usually just a bad guess, it sometimes seems like they haven't played the game themselves. I understand why new players like them though because they do seem really into the game and to them the game knowledge doesn't really matter. I just found the entire MLG yesterday so incredibly boring, I was praying the entire time for BiggerT to arrive and throw up HigherdefinitionHDstarcraft restream.
On August 28 2010 20:33 Neoattitude wrote: Similar to the commentaries during the IEM, his partners always have to force their way in as Day9 just keeps talking and talking and talking.
Huh what, I really gotta disagree with that, during IEM Apollo talked and talked about non-important stuff while Day9 had to force himself into the conversation to say important stuff. There were moments that I really wished Apollo would just shut the fuck up so we could hear about the more important things going on. Got nothing against Apollo though, he's good, but he and Day9 didn't cast that well together imo.
What was a more common tendency was that Apollo pointed out something critical, for example that loads of units died, then Day9 would go like "uhu... " and then say something about the matchup or the map that everyone had heard over 9000 times before. In my opinion, Day9 is a great analyst for his dailies, a good caster but a so-and-so co-caster.
Hey all! Thanks so much for all of the feedback. Just spent the past 15 minutes reading through each and every post and I'll be bringing up some of the feedback in our meeting this morning.
Thanks again and we'll see you guys when we go live!
On August 28 2010 20:33 Neoattitude wrote: Similar to the commentaries during the IEM, his partners always have to force their way in as Day9 just keeps talking and talking and talking.
Huh what, I really gotta disagree with that, during IEM Apollo talked and talked about non-important stuff while Day9 had to force himself into the conversation to say important stuff. There were moments that I really wished Apollo would just shut the fuck up so we could hear about the more important things going on. Got nothing against Apollo though, he's good, but he and Day9 didn't cast that well together imo.
What was a more common tendency was that Apollo pointed out something critical, for example that loads of units died, then Day9 would go like "uhu... " and then say something about the matchup or the map that everyone had heard over 9000 times before. In my opinion, Day9 is a great analyst for his dailies, a good caster but a so-and-so co-caster.
This is also somewhat true
a lot of stuff day9 says in very technical analysis, he will say over and over while casting.
Also brilliant/genius overused too much! 20 times a game, brilliant play, I really LIKE how he does X (over and over), Hallmark of a good player, etc. It's commentary that belongs in his day9 dailies and not in casts., It's fine to comment on their strategies etc, but don't go into detail about how much you like it for minutes/entire conversations.
There are a lot of points like this that he gets caught up on... REAPER CLIFFS jesus every reaper game I have to ear over and over how he likes reapers to be used.
OTOH day9 is a great caster, take this for what it is, pet peeves. These comments are all pretty correct and very insightful/good points, doesn't stop them being annoying after 1-2 games
I dislike how reapers jump up cliffs to attack, it should be for retreating. x100, It's okay though it's still amazing casting.... don't take this to heart!!! the same way you nitpick small things in people's builds (amazing players most of the time), is the same reason I'm writing this. Overall it's great.
I hope it's good there is some feedback.. and you take it for what it is..
I didn't have a problem with any of the casters. All did a very good job, you lot crying of Husky and HD saying you turned off the stream because of them...seriously?
It's not easy to cast, at all. And they all did a better job then i ever will so fair play
On August 28 2010 20:33 Neoattitude wrote: Similar to the commentaries during the IEM, his partners always have to force their way in as Day9 just keeps talking and talking and talking.
Huh what, I really gotta disagree with that, during IEM Apollo talked and talked about non-important stuff while Day9 had to force himself into the conversation to say important stuff. There were moments that I really wished Apollo would just shut the fuck up so we could hear about the more important things going on. Got nothing against Apollo though, he's good, but he and Day9 didn't cast that well together imo.
What was a more common tendency was that Apollo pointed out something critical, for example that loads of units died, then Day9 would go like "uhu... " and then say something about the matchup or the map that everyone had heard over 9000 times before. In my opinion, Day9 is a great analyst for his dailies, a good caster but a so-and-so co-caster.
I really hated the fact Apollo was so intrusive in the IEM, but tbh, I think he had too, cause else it would be day9 rolling all over him not letting him speak. But I agree that day9 can say things over and over again we have heard, as you said, 9000 times before. Most of the time I can see and understand whats going on, most of us can, dont need to go in-depth analysing it when it would be more fun if you performed well as a commentator. One thing is casting his dailies, another to commetate a match.
On August 28 2010 20:56 itmeJP wrote: Hey all! Thanks so much for all of the feedback. Just spent the past 15 minutes reading through each and every post and I'll be bringing up some of the feedback in our meeting this morning.
Thanks again and we'll see you guys when we go live!
On August 28 2010 19:45 DarkspearTribe wrote: Haha the funniest part is that HDH fans on their youtube channel saying day9 did bad job at commentating :D
seems fair to me since the majority of TL bash HDH commentating
live and let live i would say, everyone is doing the best they can
HD and Husky were ill prepared for this live event not to mention their in general lack of indepth analysis that Day9 brings to the table. compared to Day9 they are complete scrubs because lets face it Day9 is over 9000.
My advice work on you're between game banter, come up with topics beforehand to talk about, interesting stories, other useful info the viewers might want to know, hell watch some of tasteless solo casting for gom TV he talks ALL the time about hand temp and mouse/keyboard/chair settings. Above all else, get to know popular build orders/players playstyle is quite helpful and will help with their analysis skills.
On August 28 2010 20:56 itmeJP wrote: Hey all! Thanks so much for all of the feedback. Just spent the past 15 minutes reading through each and every post and I'll be bringing up some of the feedback in our meeting this morning.
Thanks again and we'll see you guys when we go live!
You rock JP. Please tell Husky to look at the camera, I think it will go a long way heh.
On August 28 2010 19:45 DarkspearTribe wrote: Haha the funniest part is that HDH fans on their youtube channel saying day9 did bad job at commentating :D
seems fair to me since the majority of TL bash HDH commentating
The thing that bothers me is that HD/Husky has been commentating/playing this game from early beta, and it seems like their understanding of the game has barely improved over the last 4-5 months. I just don't understand how every other sc2 player that takes the game seriosuly has a much better understanding of the game than them. Do they spend any time on the game except from when they are commentating?
On August 28 2010 21:40 Hider wrote: The thing that bothers me is that HD/Husky has been commentating/playing this game from early beta, and it seems like their understanding of the game has barely improved over the last 4-5 months. I just don't understand how every other sc2 player that takes the game seriosuly has a much better understanding of the game than them. Do they spend any time on the game except from when they are commentating?
Well, I have looked at Huskys profile, it is 10-2 in plat and has been for a long while, so I don't think he is active at all. HD has a bit more, but still not very much.
I didn't watch anything yesterday, (late night here in Europe), but looking a little bit at the stream now, which i suppose is yesterdays matches.
I think you are coming down way too hard on HD, at least for the matches i have watched now.
After watching IEM and this I think Day[9] needs to back a little bit off when doing cocasting, and let his partner shine a bit more. Granted it takes time to get the chemistry going, but I still have the impression that he gets a bit carried away and hogs the mike a little bit too much.
Overall, I enjoy the hell out of the stream, and think all the commentators should be satisfied with the job they are doing.
Day9 goes more in depth, but it gets dull because he goes 'in depth' on the same things every time. It was very nice early on when I didn't know much about the game, but by now I already know 90% of the 'insight' they give in commentaries, so I mostly watch them for the entertainment value. And in my opinion, HD and Husky are far more entertaining. Just watch them comment on any Idra rage game or TLO nuke frenzy, and try honestly telling me you're not enjoying it.
Pet peeve: If I have to hear one more time about how Kulas Ravine is a very good map for zerglings because of the open spaces, or that the ledges are good for terran drops, I'm going to set something on fire.
P.S. It seems to me like HD has improved. He used to mess up all the time, get unit names wrong or mix up players, but he almost never does anymore.
P.P.S Husky is just hilarious to watch with his offhand comments about random units.
In my opinion HD has the perfect voice for commentating, its clear and for non-nativ english speakers good to understand, while Husky brings the heat whenever something really interesting happens. Good mix in my opinion. Day9 and JP have an awesome understanding of the game and they are a good team as commentators. I think they all are doing a good job. (I've seen far worste commentators in other sports and even during the soccer-wc 2010)
Hey HD, i had a chuckle at "his economy is in depression, he is going to need a stimulus package and bailout".
On August 28 2010 20:44 MisterD wrote: i think day9 and especially JP looked sooo funny with make-up on :D they really exaggerated a little in this point x)
I feel like JP and Day9 feed off each other very well, while HD and husky just take like 20 seconds each and cast alone hardly ever feeding off each others points. But maybe that just comes with time casting together.
Sure, Day9 is the best caster out there, but he has a lot more experience, so of course HD and Husky are looking pale compared to that. The thing is, I really, really would like to see Day9 + Husky, because they are both entertaining, but Day9 can give more insight and Husky can make the fights more interesting, so they could make a pretty decent team.
I think both HDStarcraft and JP don't have the best voice for commentating, it's very hard to listen to both of them, especially if they get excited. Definitely would be interesting to see the casters change, because tbh I don't know that to think of JP, he gets outshined by Day9 (who seems to be better off as a one-man team anyway) and his performance for now wasn't really the best.
Commentating is very hard, I can assure you that, everytime you're going to say random stuff and get the wrong words, especially if you're new to the field, but it's not always about the knowledge, husky tries to get a lot of humor in his commentary and I think he's doing a very good job at that, he just has to talk a bit less and take a break every now and then
Day9 over the months seems to me to just have gotten cocky and full of himself and it's quite the turn-off to me... not sure if anyone else picked up on this.
the thing that bugs me about HD and husky is that as the game goes on they seem to start saying random things that they think are good. they just start to sprout any random thing that comes to there mind at that point. JP is HUGELY out shadowed by day9s casting that it isnt even funny. day9 could have shout casted that whole thing on his own. the guys extremly talented so comparing HD and husky to day9 is kinda unfair imo.
but despite HDs lack of knowledge in some areas of the game and his bi polar attitude of match ups (he use to think there was no such thing ad imbalances in ZvT but now he is starting to admit that they are mainly because of his fans. even tho he still has no idea what those imbalances are...) he is still a great commentator. and by that i mean he has good speech/talking skills.
husky is slightly better then HD but there both still outshadowed by day9. and as for JP, well the guys pretty dull. if it wasnt for day9 saving his ass he would be extremly boring to listen to.
OR it could have just been that day9 likes to talk alot and was not giving JP many chances to really talk rofl. he would interrupt JP almost all the time. so day9 has his faults to.
On August 28 2010 22:07 Vei wrote: Day9 over the months seems to me to just have gotten cocky and full of himself and it's quite the turn-off to me... not sure if anyone else picked up on this.
i kinda noticed that. all tho not so much the cocky part but he does always try to "out cast" his co casters. but for the most part he is just joking. but one thing is for sure, he definitely loves to hog the spotlight at any event he is shoutcasting.
I started watching HDH commentaries first. Enjoyed them very much, but as time goes on they are starting to pale in comparison to casters like Day9. HD needs to cool his vocal jets down, what purpose does the screeching serve? Other than forcing me mute the stream. I like all four but HDH have the most room for improvement.
I usually don't mind hd/husky, and usually defend them in most circumstances. Its really bad to make a post belittling a caster because of two reasons.
1. You give people a bias opinion when it comes to their casting ability, so they are more likely to not watch and enjoy the matches.
2. They have their own fans. You segment the community even more, and can cause resentment against other casters because of the loyalty to HD and husky.
I would also like to point out, that these things are a severe hurt to the community. As, they really only lead to less material. Less material means less numbers. No more numbers = no more sponsors. And all of these things make sean sad
Now i think while having said all that, I do enjoy the GAMES hd and husky casted, however i would watch them for the players. But I find myself wanting to watch the games day9 and jp cast, just for the casting itself.
I must say as well, that when HD didnt know why the protoss wasnt walling off vs terran, and vice versa, it made by a very sad and angry panda, and it makes me want to take all of the nice defence back that i just gave him and his co caster. But i do think it needs to be said.
Watched two games yesterday before falling asleep. First was Day9/JP and enjoyed it. Second was HD/Husky and even while drifting asleep I kept saying to myself "that's completely wrong" at the things they said.
In the one game the Terran at about 8 supply sends all of his SCVs to one patch by mistake and it's on-screen when it happens, but it doesn't even get mentioned the entire game. They miss so many things while casting and things they don't miss are often just completely wrong. They do not deserve any of the following they have. It's there solely by virtue of them starting early and using HQ.
I have trouble listening to both Husky and HD commentate. They mostly just annoy me, while offering nothing worth hearing to the match. Occasionally something entertaining of funny is said(often attempts at humor are failed imo), but generally their talking is just background noise. Previous times when I have heard their commentary I've resorted to muting the sound, but at this tournament I didn't have to do that so maybe they're improving. They did just fade into the background for extended amounts of time. They also make quite a few errors. I'm not one to nitpick at an error every now and then but it does start to detract from the game when errors are repeated quite frequently.
Day9 and JP were much better to listen to, though I didn't distinguish who was commentating most of the time. I don't have very many thought about JP so it seems to me that Day9 was doing all of the talking. Day9 also has that kind of personality where he would be better off not having a co-caster, but maybe he just needs the right partner. Day9 is also much more entertaining than HDH and his analysis is generally superb. I do get tired of his commentating style but since I haven't been following his dailies anymore, I had no problems watching him cast this tournament and felt like I would have been good with him casting the whole thing. I think the alternating between casters is a good idea because it prevents people from getting tired of them and mixes things up a bit.
So final thought. I think Day9 is a keeper. JP I didn't really notice his presence much, so he could go too, or possibly be paired with someone else. Though I don't expect them to keep more than 2 commentators so I'm fine with him being dropped. I think HD and Husky should both be replaced.
On August 28 2010 13:52 Kraz.Del wrote: I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
I strongly disagree with you, I think that Day9 is far more entertaining and says clever things all the time. Husky and HD just say the obvious things, have no insight/incorrect insight, and it's just a snorefest waiting for Day9 and JP to come back on.
I can't find any humor in Husky's commentating still, it just feels like a generic SC2GG commentary to me with equal amounts of insight to the game. I learn nothing while listening to their commentary, way unlike when listening to Day9/JP.
I have to say that i liked the first games D9 and co casted but had to turn the stream off as soon as the HDH crew stepped on the mic. I felt so trolled and it was painful to listen to some of the simply wrong commentaries i couldnt stand it anymore and decided to go to bed.
I dont dislike Husky i thought the kitten video was great, but imo its not enough to be a good general caster sometimes you should be at least familiar with the general strats and openings and generally what happens in the game atm.
Also day9 is very good at hiding his opinion about balance if he even has one and tries to be as neutral as possible.
On August 28 2010 22:22 TheDna wrote: I have to say that i liked the first games D9 and co casted but had to turn the stream off as soon as the HDH crew stepped on the mic. I felt so trolled and it was painful to listen to some of the simply wrong commentaries i couldnt stand it anymore and decided to go to bed.
I dont dislike Husky i thought the kitten video was great, but imo its not enough to be a good general caster sometimes you should be at least familiar with the general strats and openings and generally what happens in the game atm.
Also day9 is very good at hiding his opinion about balance if he even has one and tries to be as neutral as possible.
There really is a large difference between extremely professional, high-level commentary, and "entertaining"(imo childish), cookie cutter youtube-commentary a'la Moletrap or Cholera or ... Husky and HD.
The problem with HD and Husky is their understanding of the game, that's it. They both need to step back and spend a lot of time and practicing on the ladder. Good commentators like Day9, JP, Raelcun, TheGunRun, Tasteless, Artosis, etc... are all mid-high diamond level players. You need to be a decent player in order to commentate games otherwise people will make threads like this complaining about you.
On August 28 2010 13:52 Kraz.Del wrote: I strongly disagree with the OP. While Husky and HD do miss a few things, they are MUCH more entertaining than day[9] and JP. D9/JP are also great for their accurate analysis of the game. Imo, all of these Day [9] fanboys QQing about him not being all the time is just rude.
I strongly disagree with you, I think that Day9 is far more entertaining and says clever things all the time. Husky and HD just say the obvious things, have no insight/incorrect insight, and it's just a snorefest waiting for Day9 and JP to come back on.
I can't find any humor in Husky's commentating still, it just feels like a generic SC2GG commentary to me with equal amounts of insight to the game. I learn nothing while listening to their commentary, way unlike when listening to Day9/JP.
The post above me is really good.
I agree with you. Just because day9 has good knowledge and all his content is analysis videos everyone tend to think he can't be entertaining. I LOVE day9 commentaries because he makes me smile, understand what the hell is going on and what the players are doing. Hopefully he will be doing commentarys alongside with dailies in the future ^^
You guys need to think what is a caster for? He is there to supplement the video we see with audio commentary, confirm what we see, describe it, and offer a little analysis. This is a tournament, not a tutorial.
i think HDH are doing fine and it actualy adds to the entertainment with their style. I think Day9 is fantastic as he really knows his stuff, but he's watching it from a perspective of a player (which is great mind) but not so much as a caster in its true sense.
Not complaining, just stating the difference in styles, i however think all 4 are great and doing a good job. Some of you guys on here really need to lighten up.
On August 28 2010 22:36 LeonStarcraft wrote: You guys need to think what is a caster for? He is there to supplement the video we see with audio commentary, confirm what we see, describe it, and offer a little analysis. This is a tournament, not a tutorial.
i think HDH are doing fine and it actualy adds to the entertainment with their style. I think Day9 is fantastic as he really knows his stuff, but he's watching it from a perspective of a player (which is great mind) but not so much as a caster in its true sense.
Not complaining, just stating the difference in styles, i however think all 4 are great and doing a good job. Some of you guys on here really need to lighten up.
How does HDH do that well when they miss a lot of the action and don't know what's going on? Like in one game I watched a Terran was going for early Marauders and HD said something like "Oh Terran is going mech, that's really unusual vs Protoss" like wtf? That makes no sense.
Have you ever watched an Ice Hockey / Soccer game with a commentator who has no clue about the game? I have, and it's very, very awful. Everyone wants a commentator who knows about the game.
I still can't see any entertainment in HDH's casting. Making mistakes and terrible jokes to try to hide them isn't entertaining in my opinion. Showing you have amazing knowledge about the game while saying clever but subtle things is. In general I don't laugh at just stupid, straight-forward humor and prefer more subtle things anyway, so maybe I just am not being objective enough?
I have never liked Husky's commentary even from way back when he was popular among TL with the SC2GG hate(I think he's not even as good as most of them...), I've always thought that he's not funny and he still doesn't know much about the game at all. And HD's not even at the same level so... it's just extremely lackluster.
There were many times where I just facepalmed in embarrassment. We can't have people ruining the credibility of SC2 like this with just a huge lack of knowledge.
I dont think Husky being only a gold level player, or whatever some of u think he is, should factor in the discussion of whether hes good or not at broadcasting. Many NFL broadcasters have never been in the NFL, many NBA broadcasters have never been in the NBA, etc.
On August 28 2010 22:49 HighDistortion wrote: I dont think Husky being only a gold level player, or whatever some of u think he is, should factor in the discussion of whether hes good or not at broadcasting. Many NFL broadcasters have never been in the NFL, many NBA broadcasters have never been in the NBA, etc.
On August 28 2010 22:49 HighDistortion wrote: I dont think Husky being only a gold level player, or whatever some of u think he is, should factor in the discussion of whether hes good or not at broadcasting. Many NFL broadcasters have never been in the NFL, many NBA broadcasters have never been in the NBA, etc.
But they know the game, Husky/HD Doesn't really know the game
On August 28 2010 22:32 Therapist.. wrote: The problem with HD and Husky is their understanding of the game, that's it. They both need to step back and spend a lot of time and practicing on the ladder. Good commentators like Day9, JP, Raelcun, TheGunRun, Tasteless, Artosis, etc... are all mid-high diamond level players. You need to be a decent player in order to commentate games otherwise people will make threads like this complaining about you.
I agree with you that HD and Husky still lack game sence. But i don´t think they should step back from casting. If they find some time it might be a good idea to play and get a better sense of whats going on. But being a good player doesn`t grant you good casting skills. Id rather see them do more commentary, listen to thier own casts, read threads like this, talk to players/other casters and try to improve thier casting that way. I dont think a good caster does have to be a top player. Most sport commentators never payed the sport at a decent level. Most of them even have a better grab on whats going on then some players.
With enough dedication (which HD, Husky and JP seem to have) and experience (will come over time) they will all reach the level Day,Chill,Tasteless,Artosis are now. Just give them some time and constructive feedback.
Once those casters are at about the same level, you can still choose your favorite caster based on style voice jokes or whatever.
On August 28 2010 22:49 HighDistortion wrote: I dont think Husky being only a gold level player, or whatever some of u think he is, should factor in the discussion of whether hes good or not at broadcasting. Many NFL broadcasters have never been in the NFL, many NBA broadcasters have never been in the NBA, etc.
But they know the game, Husky/HD Doesn't really know the game
Nobody knows the game; it's only been out for a month (excluding beta). Just saying they're bad doesn't help anyone and only makes you sound like a dick. I prefer Day9 but that's just my opinion I don't go around bashing every commentator for not being like Day9. Everybody has their own styles and it just so happens that HDH's style is alot more "newbie" friendly.
On August 28 2010 22:49 HighDistortion wrote: I dont think Husky being only a gold level player, or whatever some of u think he is, should factor in the discussion of whether hes good or not at broadcasting. Many NFL broadcasters have never been in the NFL, many NBA broadcasters have never been in the NBA, etc.
according to some, D/D+ is diamond...
so what is gold ? O_o
gold mean you dont play on iccup basically, perhaps playing on some of the blizzard ladders.
First of all, arguing over caster preference gets us nowhere. It's simply preference
Some prefer the Husky, HD, Day 9, or JP. It's a PREFERENCE.
I don't think JP is quite enthusiastic enough for MY TASTES. I think day9 does a little too much analysis in his shoutcasting when I THINK he should just be building the excitement.
I don't really watch too much Husky or HD to say too much about them
On August 28 2010 22:56 MercurialGaming wrote: Nobody knows the game; it's only been out for a month (excluding beta). Just saying they're bad doesn't help anyone and only makes you sound like a dick. I prefer Day9 but that's just my opinion I don't go around bashing every commentator for not being like Day9. Everybody has their own styles and it just so happens that HDH's style is alot more "newbie" friendly.
This. Exactly what i was trying to say. Although you worded it better. 2 different styles, that's why it is a great mix that MLG have found, it caters for everyone - the top end players who watch and also the casual/newer players who like to have a view.
I personaly find it refreshing as if you had the same type of casting for every game it would get stale real quick.
On August 28 2010 14:36 Zurles wrote: Although I tend to agree, a giant hate thread is probably taking it a bit too far.
Just let it play out; constructive criticism is one thing but trying to convince everyone that your favorite caster is the best and that these other two casters suck just comes across as mean.
I think one thing you guys are missing, is that not everyone that wants to watch a SC2 replay is a super high diamond player. It's ok to have Husky and HD around for entertainment casts. Who cares if they can't see the build coming 10 minutes before it happens. They put out high quality content, consistently, and with a good attitude. Sometimes It's nice to watch a game and not have to worry about someone complaining about how they built their gas on 15 instead of 13, and just enjoy the spectacle. Husky doesn't need to be a top player to indulge that.
Do you think destructible rocks near the main favor protoss due to void rays? Do you think that protoss are at a disadvantage early to mid game vs terran on maps that do not have them?
Thought atleast HD was diamond player, should know plenty. Seems like just elitist hate too me. Personally I just can't bear listening day9 O0H-AAH all game long.
On August 29 2010 00:10 escobari wrote: Thought atleast HD was diamond player, should know plenty. Seems like just elitist hate too me. Personally I just can't bear listening day9 O0H-AAH all game long.
Really? a few of my friends in diamond are pretty clueless, it doesnt mean that much.
On August 29 2010 00:10 escobari wrote: Thought atleast HD was diamond player, should know plenty. Seems like just elitist hate too me. Personally I just can't bear listening day9 O0H-AAH all game long.
Really? a few of my friends in diamond are pretty clueless, it doesnt mean that much.
this is whats good about husky the jokes and the enthusiasm and the nerdgasms.
I'd love to see husky paired up with some knowledgeable more "boringish" caster who could provide the tactical insight while husky provides the exitement. HD just isnt that guy.
Haha I'm watching the stream right now and JP is regurgitating what Day9 said about a previous PvZ... Like JP said practically verbatim "a sign of a good T player is when they use their reapers to put pressure on the front instead of jumping up the back blah blah blah" which was exactly what Day9 was talking about in day 1.
EDIT: Day is currently teaming up with Husky! Cool!
First time poster here. My caster preferences go from HD > Day9 > Husky > that other guy (JP)
I think a lot of personal bias factors into caster preference. For example, Day9 is a little bit too nerdy for me(no offense, just an observation). It's hard for me to identify with him and his jokes. There are things that Day9 does(like the hearts or more recently the troll face), make me cringe. I do understand how it might amuse some other people though.
Overall HDH's fans are mostly casual starcraft gamers and their casting styles reflect that. I'm a casual sc gamer myself; watching games with HDH casting feels like i'm watching the game with them, while with day9 i feel like i'm watching a game and he's telling me about it.
A lot of people here seem to think that analyst = commentator. While they can go hand and hand, they are not both necessary. Personally i prefer to do the analysis myself and have the casters there to give a play-by-play or entertain.
Imo HDH's mistakes don't warrant as much hate as they get. Day9 makes mistakes as well, like Select's player info or Whitra's name change info. But he doesn't get nitpicked as much, mainly because the TL community sees him as one of their own. With HDH the hardcore players see them as outsiders that are bringing in noobs,like me (:
On August 29 2010 00:10 escobari wrote: Thought atleast HD was diamond player, should know plenty. Seems like just elitist hate too me. Personally I just can't bear listening day9 O0H-AAH all game long.
Really? a few of my friends in diamond are pretty clueless, it doesnt mean that much.
I'm sure you would cast better than HD... LOL -.-
First off i never said i would, secondly i dont have to be a caster to critize the casters, i have love for them as they do work in the sc2 community but it doesnt mean their casting is my cup of tea.
Husky making baseless conjecture annoys me... Maybe I'm just peeved he tried to talk over Sean (Don't worry though, guys... the Thoughthammer chuckled to himself and just kept on talking)
I can't stand HD. I find that he adds almost nothing to any commentary and misses a lot of action. For instance in the Drewbie vs Idra match Idra went for a greater spire and 5 corruptors at the same time, and HD spent the next 3 minutes talking about how he had no idea why Idra was getting said corruptors. I feel the Husky is only able to hype up action moments (which he does well btw), but does not know enough to talk about the strategy and misses a lot of big things as they are building. Only once they become very apparent on screen (mothership popping out) does he actually say something about it.
I think they did a lot of work that had a lot of benefit to the community during the beta, but I honestly can't stand them as commentators. =/
HD is criminally underrated, infact he is the best pure SC2 caster. Day9 is just so likeable, and everyone loves Day9 but when things get truly exciting i feel HD does the absolute best job of conveying his excitement so it feels sports like.
But yes, HD is just....oh god. At least he doesn't talk about "chrono boosting his probes for the economy" as if its revolutionary anymore. Like, really, chrono boosting probes for economy? I thought it was for a fucking probe rush, chrono is such a proskill and you never see it
Having approachable commentary isn't a bad thing, this kind of attitude is going to scare people away from the game as a sport. How many people at home who are really really in to grid iron or basketball hate the TV commentators and think they say idiot stuff? - I'd bet a lot.
Give them a chance, they are all learning as it's an evolving game and a new skill which is pretty rare, it's not like there's a long history of video game commentators.
When you think about the professionalism shown for example by all the commentators at MLG and how new this is, really we should be impressed more than anything, just be patient or hell, accept perhaps there's going to be one high skill commentator and one mid skill to appeal to the masses.
If I could make one criticism, Husky needs to just relax a little bit, slow down and not constantly constantly talk, including overtalking. (at least he's making less jokes than he does on his YTube feed) Patience is a virtue.
On August 29 2010 02:00 Raevin wrote: HD is criminally underrated, infact he is the best pure SC2 caster. Day9 is just so likeable, and everyone loves Day9 but when things get truly exciting i feel HD does the absolute best job of conveying his excitement so it feels sports like.
I definitely disagree with this. Even as just a sports-esque commentator, I don't think he sounds confident enough with his vocabulary. He stumbles over things a lot. TotalBiscuit is, in my opinion, a lot better for sports-esque commentary.
The main issue is that day9 is sort of forced to dance around some things HD says because they are incorrect and he can't outright call him out on it but also cant just agree because it would damage his own integrity.
On August 29 2010 02:19 7th-Real wrote: The main issue is that day9 is sort of forced to dance around some things HD says because they are incorrect and he can't outright call him out on it but also cant just agree because it would damage his own integrity.
Day[9] has always been good at dancing around questionable statements, though. Just like his brother.
I think everyone needs to relax for a bit and chill out.
A lot of the opinions posted are not well thought out and kinda rushed,
I think everyone needs to give the casters (esp. HD and Husky as this is their first) more time and then reach their judgements when they have seen more.
I appreciate Husky's energy, albeit sometimes excessive. I don't dislike HD as a person, but he's essentially the John Madden of SC commentators -- he simply tells me what's on the screen. Husky can miss a thing here and there, but you can actually tell he's watched a lot of replays and has a general sense of the "meta game"/trends. I think a balance of insight and excitement is necessary, thus I would put Husky behind Da9 and JP simply due to the latter pair having more experience live.
I mean, if I just wanted some guy to quietly tell me what's going on in monotone, I would just watch the replays and talk to myself.
The simple fact that our commentators take time to actually read threads like this and take the constructive criticism proves that they are awesome. Seriously.
On August 29 2010 02:40 Gentso wrote: Casters in order from best to worst
1) Day9 2) Husky 3) HD 4) JP
whaaa?????? JP at 4? That guy is one of the top notch casters in SC2 imo.
Agreed. I would have agreed with this list months ago when MLG was first starting their king of the hill series, but JP has improved tenfold since his original casts. Now he can definitely hold his own and is continuing to get a better understanding of the game. 1 4 2 3 imo.
I honestly think most of the problem with HDH is they aren't good alone or with each other, because there styles are way too similar. Paired with Day[9] however and they are excellent because you have two different styles meshing together perfectly.
Also I think HD has a better voice then Husky, I find Husky's voice very annoying to listen too, it's not a good voice for commentating.
On August 29 2010 02:40 Gentso wrote: Casters in order from best to worst
1) Day9 2) Husky 3) HD 4) JP
whaaa?????? JP at 4? That guy is one of the top notch casters in SC2 imo.
I think its more personal preference. They are all doing a fantastic job and keeping us (at least me) entertained. I think some of the differences are overplayed and all four should be commended for making it fun
On August 29 2010 02:40 Gentso wrote: Casters in order from best to worst
1) Day9 2) Husky 3) HD 4) JP
whaaa?????? JP at 4? That guy is one of the top notch casters in SC2 imo.
Yeah, I've been really impressed with him.
You could really see the "Day[9] difference" in the last game of HuK vs CauthonLuck where he instantly recognized the no chronoboosting on the Nexus and late gas. I feel like if it were HDH they would have missed that. Seriously great casting by everyone there though!
i really don't like to be disrespectful, but hd and husky have absolutely no understanding of the game. i'm more tolerant of husky thank hd because husky's commentaries are more lighthearted and play-by-play than hd's analytical style. hd tries to be day9, but the problem is that hd's understanding of the game is about what you'd find in gold league. he makes a ton of incorrect calls, misses important details, sometimes he doesn't correctly call which player is ahead. obviously hd and husky are likable guys with a knack for casting, but they need to learn more about how the game works if they want to stay at the top of the commentary hill. it's simply annoying hearing them spouting false information to huge audiences filled with many lower level players who are going to believe them.
On August 29 2010 02:37 UberThing wrote: I think everyone needs to relax for a bit and chill out.
A lot of the opinions posted are not well thought out and kinda rushed,
I think everyone needs to give the casters (esp. HD and Husky as this is their first) more time and then reach their judgements when they have seen more.
I have not noticed an improvement since March. How much time should they have? It seems to me that they're not very committed to being good casters. Having an entry level approach is one thing, but they're regularly unprepared to talk about the players they're watching and thats just a matter of effort.
Pretty much same here. Early on when I started playin I used to be a big fan of Husky/HD for your same reasons. Now even tho I'm still watching their videos (for entertaiment) sometimes I just can't stand facepalming comments like "HE SHOULD REALLY GET VOIDRAYS" when the zerg got 534534535 mutalisks out, suggesting that "archons are really bad against ultras" or that kind of stuff (last game he casted)
That said, Day9 is just the best caster I've seen on SC2 by far, hes just as funny as Husky while at the same time he got a bilion times his game knowledge. I don't wanna be rude towards HD or Husky, since I'm still watching most of the stuff they cast but Day9 is just on a whole different level.
On August 29 2010 03:24 Odoakar wrote: Notice how no one is interrupting Day9 and talking over him like d.appolo did on IEM. It's really much more enjoyable to listen compared to IEM games.
Great casting by Day9 and Husky, very good casting by Day9 and HD/JP
That was literally Apollo's first time and he has game knowledge comparable to Day9 and probably more player knowledge. You could really tell he put a lot of time into prep.
On August 29 2010 02:37 UberThing wrote: I think everyone needs to relax for a bit and chill out.
A lot of the opinions posted are not well thought out and kinda rushed,
I think everyone needs to give the casters (esp. HD and Husky as this is their first) more time and then reach their judgements when they have seen more.
I have not noticed an improvement since March. How much time should they have? It seems to me that they're not very committed to being good casters. Having an entry level approach is one thing, but they're regularly unprepared to talk about the players they're watching and thats just a matter of effort.
It's the Sarah Palin of SC2 casting.
I get what you're saying but HD/Husky have limited experience casting games live at events. This is a different ball game to casting VODs on youtube. A lot of the hesistation/saying wrong things etc is due to inexperience.
Day and JP are faar more experienced in this regard and it shows. I feel however it is unfair to hate and say they are not commited etc and are terrible. Everyone has their own favourites. I started watching both HD and Husky a year and a half ago and they have improved immensely. Personally I like their style, but I also respect you if you dont. They have done new things and they adapt. Just giev them more time to adapt to casting live and being proper commentators.
I'm actually surprised on how well they are doing. Because I thought they would just bomb. They seem like great people, but they just don't have the in depth knowledge needed for high level commentary.
To me it's like watching a UFC fight with Joe Rogan at the microphone and then trying to watch a local MMA fight and some scrub just spouting nonsense.
I think if they took more time to get out of their shell and explore other high level opinions or even watch other caster's streams they would improve. I would say they need to play more, but I don't think they would even be at a high enough level to make an impact.
I think their style is fine. Yes it is their first time, but a huge amount of the things they say are just plain wrong. I think Day9 wanted to facepalm at a few of the things HD said.
He even winced when HD said sc2 has a random factor because of cheese.
It's not the exp at casting that bothers people, it's the whole game knowledge part. And way too often they do not know what their talking about. It often feels like "oh another hd/husky game... well sure, let's watch it's 20 mins of fun, I just have to ignore the weird mistakes"
Have you guys ever seen Chris Puckett cast a Halo game? It is excruciating. MLG doesn't seem to have the highest standards. However, I fully support HD and Husky. They make mistakes but will get better, and live events are pretty hard. I'd rather watch them than most people that aren't named day9. They have energy, and most other casters just don't bring that.
They seem compareable at least to JP when they're paired up next to Day9, not surprising, though JP and Day9 definitly have the best chemistry. It was cool that they mixed it up like that today. Hopefully they all try to improve as time goes on.
Who thinks MLG really should really invest in some chairs? Halo fans have a stadium, SC2 fans get a rug.. lol
On August 29 2010 02:37 UberThing wrote: I think everyone needs to relax for a bit and chill out.
A lot of the opinions posted are not well thought out and kinda rushed,
I think everyone needs to give the casters (esp. HD and Husky as this is their first) more time and then reach their judgements when they have seen more.
I have not noticed an improvement since March. How much time should they have? It seems to me that they're not very committed to being good casters. Having an entry level approach is one thing, but they're regularly unprepared to talk about the players they're watching and thats just a matter of effort.
It's the Sarah Palin of SC2 casting.
I get what you're saying but HD/Husky have limited experience casting games live at events. This is a different ball game to casting VODs on youtube. A lot of the hesistation/saying wrong things etc is due to inexperience.
Day and JP are faar more experienced in this regard and it shows. I feel however it is unfair to hate and say they are not commited etc and are terrible. Everyone has their own favourites. I started watching both HD and Husky a year and a half ago and they have improved immensely. Personally I like their style, but I also respect you if you dont. They have done new things and they adapt. Just giev them more time to adapt to casting live and being proper commentators.
The mistakes happen on the YouTube videos also. :/ If it was just really basic, it wouldn't necessarily turn off experienced players. Its the being wrong part that does. Enjoying misinformation is a preference?
The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
On August 29 2010 04:00 Rah wrote: They seem compareable at least to JP when they're paired up next to Day9, not surprising, though JP and Day9 definitly have the best chemistry. It was cool that they mixed it up like that today. Hopefully they all try to improve as time goes on.
Who thinks MLG really should really invest in some chairs? Halo fans have a stadium, SC2 fans get a rug.. lol
TL owes day9 the same sort of criticism as hd/h receives. It is only fair. Day9 is a great caster, but he shares a lot of mistakes with hd/h.
Both,
>overuse/repeat phrases >state common observations ("look there is 75 chrono boost, maybe the's saving up for aggression") >use words like "smooth, nice, great etc" Generally vague descriptive words.
There are more examples and little particularies of each caster that I could complain about. What bothers my about these threads is not the criticism its the fact that very few are willing to extend similar attention to all casters.
While day9 is undoubtedly one of the best casters in the community he is not immune to criticism and threads made in the "Its not wrong to have high standards" spirit become a bit of a joke when noone is willing to talk about the blunders of day9.
In the beginning HDH didn't have great chemistry and everytime they cast together it takes them awhile to get into their flow going. JP/Day veterans and good as usual.
But from what I am seeing is that the longer HDH talk the better their flow go, and for being their 1st event I see that they are doing well.
I think they're flowing great, there isn't a problem with the chemistry. Even though HD and Husky throw out some really wrong comments a lot, I think I would rather have that then commentators stumbling over each other.
Apollo and Day9 both have great knowledge for the game and understand what's going on very well. However, when they would talk over each other and stumble that was was just bad. It felt like finger nails on a chalk board
I personally find myself listening harder to day9's comments, as he often has some insight/viewpoint I didnt think of. Plus its always something I can agree on, never a mistake or nonsense statement. The others I find are often just stating the obvious, but still they are enjoyable to listen to and at their best can really get a good feeling going.
I think the best casters tend to be amoung the best/better players as they know more so miss nothing and know whats going on meta wise and such. Being told exactly what is on the screen that I just watched isn't very engaging commentary but thats life.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
what does it mean
prox·y (prks) n. pl. prox·ies 1. A person authorized to act for another; an agent or substitute. 2. The authority to act for another. 3. The written authorization to act in place of another.
COMPARE TO:
proximity [prɒkˈsɪmɪtɪ] n 1. nearness in space or time 2. nearness or closeness in a series
HD wins, Proxy is not Proxy, it should be "Proxi", as in short for proximity.
Either way really, doesn't really matter in my opinion, both could be argued as the proper "proxy"
For cases of closeness, use Proxy. for cases of hiding or substitution, use Proxy.
On August 29 2010 04:27 Kurr wrote: Casting has been fine. I just hate that I can't make it fullscreen because it cuts the minimap and part of the screen T_T
That can be fixed by setting your desktop resolution to 16: 9, like 1280x720 or 1920x1200. Try doing that and then making it fullscreen.
I think husky needs a tan + haircut.. And also better clothes? Everyone else looks so professional, and here's husky with out-of-bed hair and a hoodie?
On August 29 2010 04:15 Aegeis wrote: No love for these commentators?
Still lots of room for improvement, but considering how difficult live commentating is, I think they are doing pretty well. So here is a little love. I'm having a good time watching the MLG.
HD and Husky give me almost nothing to think about and never teach me anything about the game. It's just play by play that I can already do in my head.
On August 29 2010 04:38 Teogamer wrote: HD and Husky give me almost nothing to think about and never teach me anything about the game. It's just play by play that I can already do in my head.
I totally agree. Day9 and Husky was a surprisingly good combination though. Still, Day9 and JP is the best combination, they are very laid back and easy to listen to while still analyzing the game and pointing out key things. Pretty much every combination involving HD is bad lol.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
They confuse themselves. They dont realize the factors that lead to wins and losses (eg. upgrade timing) . It's unpleasant to listen to them for the most part.
I think proxy is a nice term for when you go as far as building a small group of unit producing structures near an enemy, because then it's actually a war by proxy as you designate a specific group of your units and buildings outside of your main base to wage war and just support them economically. I guess not many people know the term that well though, so they think it's short for proximity and then use the word that way.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
I like them all. Day 9 focuses more on the strategy, HD and Husky are more focused on the excitement. I think people underestimating their understanding of the game. I just watched the Huk vs Kiwikaki match and they covered the strategy aspects very well while still emphasizing the excitement of the big battles. Imo they are very good for the SC2 community, highlighting how entertaining SC2 can be.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
FUCKING OWNED gtfo bitch proxy means proximity aka near distance. GTFO troll! HD and Husky are doing great! Whoever is hating shouldn't even watch the MLG at all!
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
On August 29 2010 04:58 Aurdon wrote: When did Proxy pylons start getting called 'proximity pylons'? Am I just nitpicking or is changing a well established term seem kind of annoying?
It's just a really common misconception among people that proxy has always been short for proximity because it's an easier term to understand the application of than proxy. It's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
So what you're saying is you get annoyed because people don't use the same lingo as you do? Because people do not talk the same way you do?
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
On August 29 2010 05:03 floor exercise wrote: It's just a really common misconception among people that proxy has always been short for proximity because it's an easier term to understand the application of than proxy. It's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
Even if the audience understands what proxy means (not everyone will), it's hard to make the connection of what the building is actually a proxy for. If it's a barracks, it's a proxy for... placing barracks at your main and marching the units across the map. It's really unintuitive. Ideally we'd replace all the random terms like 'cheese' and 'gosu' and the such but obviously they're too entrenched.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
So what you're saying is you get annoyed because people don't use the same lingo as you do? Because people do not talk the same way you do?
That's ridiculous.
It's easy to notice these differences in lingo, and that kind of ruins the flow a commentator should have. It's like if they repeatedly pronounce a word wrong or is saying Citadel of Adun instead of Twilight Council, sure, it's not that big of a deal, but you still notice it and it's annoying.
And it's not just the lingo Antoine uses, it's the lingo the whole community uses.
But as I said, it isn't that big of deal. It's not like HD is a bad caster for saying proximity instead of proxy, but it's still annoying.
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
So what you're saying is you get annoyed because people don't use the same lingo as you do? Because people do not talk the same way you do?
That's ridiculous.
It's easy to notice these differences in lingo, and that kind of ruins the flow a commentator should have. It's like if they repeatedly pronounce a word wrong or is saying Citadel of Adun instead of Twilight Council, sure, it's not that big of a deal, but you still notice it and it's annoying.
And it's not just the lingo Antoine uses, it's the lingo the whole community uses.
But as I said, it isn't that big of deal. It's not like HD is a bad caster for saying proximity instead of proxy, but it's still annoying.
Language evolves and changes all the time. I don't understand why you are wasting mental energy on being annoyed at something that at the end of the day doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form.
HD and Husky were my introduction to sc2 early beta casting, so I definitely should give them props for that, but for some reason I just don't enjoy their casting much anymore. Day9 is the best, but he is by no means perfect. He really needs to stop with his 'yeah, yeah, yeah' comments. Apollo at ESL were horrible. He and Day9 had absolutely no chemistry at all. No natural pauses and transitions, so I hope that was the last time we see them paired up. I hate how HD forces his voice to sound different when something action packed is going on. It just sounds retarded and not professional at all. With Husky I just gets the feeling of being spammed relentlessly so it gets so exhausting to listen to after a while.
Obviously this is all personal opinions and we will all have different views on this, but I think we all have to give them props for being there covering it.
On August 29 2010 05:03 floor exercise wrote: It's just a really common misconception among people that proxy has always been short for proximity because it's an easier term to understand the application of than proxy. It's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
Even if the audience understands what proxy means (not everyone will), it's hard to make the connection of what the building is actually a proxy for. If it's a barracks, it's a proxy for... placing barracks at your main and marching the units across the map. It's really unintuitive. Ideally we'd replace all the random terms like 'cheese' and 'gosu' and the such but obviously they're too entrenched.
Ultimately it doesn't matter as long as the audience understands that proxy = something outside your base.
The confusion arises when people claim something outside your base isn't a proxy because it's not closer to your enemy, if you're merely doing it to hide it. By pretending proxy means proximity it becomes a very narrow term to define a building you are using to rush with.
Since the beginning of SC it's been referred to as a "proxy robotics" or proxy dt tech or whatever you will. Not to mention production facilities that aren't necessarily closer, just obscured by being outside of your base. I remember a King of the Beta game where the terran built his starport in another main to hide his banshees. Would someone honestly try to argue it ceases being a proxy because it's not closer? It gets kind of absurd.
The fact is "proxy" on its own works and has always worked without other requirements being met like the relative distance to your enemy.
We're not really advocating the evolution of language so much as its devolution by saying proxy is short for proximity. It's kind of silly to use a constrictive term to replace a more broad, accurate one.
But at the end of the day it doesn't matter as long as people watching understand what is going on. I doubt Ursadons share a common genus with polar bears
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
So what you're saying is you get annoyed because people don't use the same lingo as you do? Because people do not talk the same way you do?
That's ridiculous.
It's easy to notice these differences in lingo, and that kind of ruins the flow a commentator should have. It's like if they repeatedly pronounce a word wrong or is saying Citadel of Adun instead of Twilight Council, sure, it's not that big of a deal, but you still notice it and it's annoying.
And it's not just the lingo Antoine uses, it's the lingo the whole community uses.
But as I said, it isn't that big of deal. It's not like HD is a bad caster for saying proximity instead of proxy, but it's still annoying.
Language evolves and changes all the time. I don't understand why you are wasting mental energy on being annoyed at something that at the end of the day doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form.
But to each their own, I guess.
Language evolution is okay. Spreading false origins for terms and folk etymologies is just confusing and unnecessary. Saying something that's false shouldn't be justified under "language evolution."
In a perfect world (with the right funding of course) I actually think that JP and Day would be fantastic for a desk team. JP screams professional and is very, very good at guiding a discussion. I'd add a third member that is a little more serious than Day to balance each other out and just let JP moderate/MC. Day's analysis and ability to fill time would be essential for this position.
Then you'd have play by play teams. Honestly, I'm not crazy about HD and Husky, but put them with an "expert" that can chime in and you've got some potential.
There's a reason that most sports broadcasts team a play by play person with a color commentator that is usually a former player of whatever sport. You have expertise in the commentator and professional broadcasting from the play by play guy.
I really have a more complete vision I'd go with given the funding/bandwidth to pull it off, but that discussion would be better for a blog post.
The one specific piece of feedback I'd give for the current setup is Husky, get a jacket and lose the hoody. The other three look immensely more professional than you do. Professionalism is how you get esports to go more mainstream and bring in the bigger sponsors. At the moment you're the stereotypical skinny nerd. I do love the enthusiasm and saw a difference in your commentary from yesterday to today for the better..
On August 29 2010 04:31 Antoine wrote: proxy DOES NOT MEAN proximity
Proximity = distance....used to imply an unusually shore distance from building to nme base.
You just got served by self.
i'm not arguing about the definition of proximity. i'm saying that proxy is not short for proximity, but has a different meaning instead. technically proximity could be right as they're using it, but one of them tried to explain earlier that people say proxy meaning proximity, which isn't true.
Basically you are arguing that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are trying to save some face, meanwhile making your self look like a complete idiot.
yeah you caught me
Mothxal did a good job summarizing about the difference. It's annoying that HD and Husky are changing terminology from something I, and the whole rest of the community, have used for years.
So what you're saying is you get annoyed because people don't use the same lingo as you do? Because people do not talk the same way you do?
That's ridiculous.
It's easy to notice these differences in lingo, and that kind of ruins the flow a commentator should have. It's like if they repeatedly pronounce a word wrong or is saying Citadel of Adun instead of Twilight Council, sure, it's not that big of a deal, but you still notice it and it's annoying.
And it's not just the lingo Antoine uses, it's the lingo the whole community uses.
But as I said, it isn't that big of deal. It's not like HD is a bad caster for saying proximity instead of proxy, but it's still annoying.
Language evolves and changes all the time. I don't understand why you are wasting mental energy on being annoyed at something that at the end of the day doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form.
But to each their own, I guess.
It's just like if someone is using incorrect grammar, you notice it and even if you understand what the person is trying to say, you get stuck at noticing these errors which eliminates the flow in the conversation. And this is especially annoying if a caster is doing it as flow is very important when casting.
Also, it's not like I decide "hey, I'm going waste mental energy on noticing when HD says proximity instead of proxy!", it just happens.
But as you say, people react differently, to each their own indeed.
On August 29 2010 05:35 ey215 wrote: The one specific piece of feedback I'd give for the current setup is Husky, get a jacket and lose the hoody. The other three look immensely more professional than you do.
I don't really get the jacket-thing, to me it looks rather awkward than any way of professional. http://www.mymym.com/gfx/tasteless-bunny-blizzcon.jpg This is how Tasteless did cast the Blizzcon (I wouldn't dare to say this wouldn't go by "professional") SCBW matches, and it feels just so much more authentic, instead of everyone wearing the same, boring black jacket - which really does look even worse with a T-shirt underneath btw.
Personally. The best from the streams I've seen (beeing EU and all) is the duo of HD and Day9. After some small blunder where they were getting used to each other, I feel they had good chemistry and HD's voice is good for beeing the backbone of a comment where Day9s knowlegde and excitement shines through. One thing that do ge t annoying every now and then is the constant 'ladies and gentlemen' from HD, but no biggy. His genes (voice) makes up for that .
HD and Husky don't go well together, and I feel personally that Husky is fitting for the more younger people (not that I am old to any degree), but there is something about him that seems shabby and his voice isn't providing anything good to the soup. He needs to talk slower and simply calm down. I honestly don't feel Husky has 'grown' with his popularity, like the crap about Pylo the pylon, I find that lame to actually cast and bring up. I neither find it funny or cute in any way. It's a damn pylon for gods sake. And he loses focus when stuff is getting stormed, more annoying then entertaining.
I am not saying Husky is bad, but that his place as commentator here is a little wrong. What he does to get people interested in the game (along with HD) is great. It's basically him that got my interest to the game, and then you learn more and more and you find better alternatives. He's the practice league of commentating, basically.
So Day9 + JP or HD is for me the perfect setup from what's aviliable.
On August 29 2010 05:35 ey215 wrote: The one specific piece of feedback I'd give for the current setup is Husky, get a jacket and lose the hoody. The other three look immensely more professional than you do.
I don't really get the jacket-thing, to me it looks rather awkward than any way of professional. http://www.mymym.com/gfx/tasteless-bunny-blizzcon.jpg This is how Tasteless did cast the Blizzcon (I wouldn't dare to say this wouldn't go by "professional") SCBW matches, and it feels just so much more authentic, instead of everyone wearing the same, boring black jacket - which really does look even worse with a T-shirt underneath btw.
Cool shirts beat jackets! so true :-) Not a fan of the hoody though, he should wear some kind of shirt (dont care if tshirt/poloshirt/ normal Button shirt). Jackets make day 9 / Hd / Jp not look proffessional but awkward.
Some kind of table on screen would help too & interaction with crowd/players.
This douchebagery has got to stop. You don't like the commentators. Thats fine. You're not paying for it (well maybe you did, but you knew they were casting). Seriously, just let it go. Enjoy the event. Don't watch their YouTube channel. Just enjoy it. Stop being so angry.
On August 29 2010 06:11 kilgr20 wrote: ROFL day9 and his comments bout girls and his female build order 8 - movie 9 - dinner 12 - kiss if that don't work I go for a bit of harass
lol epic
10 dinner sir, dont miss up the BO or else you are putting yourself behind early
man, so many of my gamer friends and caster friends are all there. I wish I had the money to go to these things, or like them I was famous enough to be paid to go.
I loved HD's excitement during the Huk vs Kiwikaki War of the Worlds and they still did a good job noting the importance of the +1 upgrade and the concave.
This is so off topic, but, I was wondering what headsets all of the casters are wearing?
I've looked through Razer's, Creative's, Sennheisers, Astro's, Turtle Beache's, and Logitech's lineup and couldn't find them. I really like the mic quality.
HD/Husky are terrible if you are a relatively high level player watching the stream. They have no clue what the players are doing, what builds are standard/funky, and flat out miss obvious things that each player is doing.
Day9/JP are surprisingly amazing as a team, probably given that they casted 12 hours straight at the countdown party.
On August 29 2010 06:35 superbabosheki wrote: HD/Husky are terrible if you are a relatively high level player watching the stream. They have no clue what the players are doing, what builds are standard/funky, and flat out miss obvious things that each player is doing.
Day9/JP are surprisingly amazing as a team, probably given that they casted 12 hours straight at the countdown party.
Not sure what you mean by high level player, but I have learned to not freak out when they say wrong things. They still have something good when casting. They bring some excitement and energy into it.
On August 29 2010 06:35 superbabosheki wrote: HD/Husky are terrible if you are a relatively high level player watching the stream. They have no clue what the players are doing, what builds are standard/funky, and flat out miss obvious things that each player is doing.
Day9/JP are surprisingly amazing as a team, probably given that they casted 12 hours straight at the countdown party.
Not sure what you mean by high level player, but I have learned to not freak out when they say wrong things. They still have something good when casting. They bring some excitement and energy into it.
I mean that everyone gold and under don't know when husky/hd are pulling stuff out of their ass or saying something very redundant. Husky's excitement really annoys me for some reason, and HD's just sounds fake.
I don't know why but both their voices just make me want to shoot myself in the face. Everytime I hear the "alrrrrrrrrighty then laties and gentlemen" from HD I feel like puking.
On August 29 2010 06:44 crappen wrote:Not sure what you mean by high level player, but I have learned to not freak out when they say wrong things. They still have something good when casting. They bring some excitement and energy into it.
There's nothing wrong with expecting excitement in addition to intelligent commentary. HD/Husky's only strength appears to be that they can get excited and energetic. They've demonstrated profound lack of game insight throughout the tournament in addition to missing several key parts of the game. There was more than one instance where HD was shouting "How did that happen?!" If you have to ask that as a caster, you're not fit for the job.
HD/Husky are vital members of the eSports community. They expose untold amounts of otherwise uninformed people to the professional Starcraft scene and they do it very, very well. I respect them a lot for that. But just because they have a high ranking youtube channel does not mean they are qualified for high-level live commentary. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. They have their place, as does everyone else.
On August 29 2010 04:06 Jibba wrote: The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
On August 29 2010 04:06 Jibba wrote: The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
Although I can see where a lot of these comments are coming from, I still think it's insanely rude and uncalled for to flame them this much as they've certainly made their stamp in the SC2 community and brought a lot of new people in the scene.
Constructive criticism is fine and is needed for people to improve, but in my opinion a lot of people should be ashamed of themselves for flaming these two kind gentlemen for doing their best to bring entertainment for a lot of people who actually do enjoy their casting.
There are times I'm embarrassed to be a part of this community.
On August 29 2010 07:18 Darksoldierr wrote: i think all the commentators was great, even in "mixed" combo
HD and Husky both got a LOT better when paired up with Day9. He was able to provide the strategy analysis while they could do playbyplay and hype. I wouldn't mind at all if that's what happened in the future; they only seemed to suffer when paired together.
JP, needs to be replaced imo. Husky needs to Look the part. Casters shouldn't look like 14 year old kids who rolled out of bed to come to a starcraft tournament. and HD needs to play the game more than once a week so that he knows what he is talking about.
I don't understand how a thread like this gets wind under its wings. I just really hope HD and Husky understand that this kind of thing just comes with the amount of attention they receive doing sc2 commentaries. It doesn't matter what you do, if you're in the spot light, people will criticize you from their arm chair. It's human nature.
Please don't be concerned with it. And I don't agree with a lot of the stuff people complain about here. I think you have great game understanding and entertaining commentary. You're a great team that compliment each other well.
I don't think HD and Husky are bad at all. They commentate pretty well at the game are pretty entertaining. Day[9] on the other hand gives his valuable strategical imput which actually helps players improve which I think is really valuable.
JP was quite quiet. I think he is a better host than a commentator. However when he does talk, it makes sense, he's just doesn't have the volume or energy of a shoutcaster. I don't really mind.
I think the real morale of this event is that X + Day[9] = awesome where X = Anything. I'm sure if you put a box turtle next to him, it would be fun to watch.
On August 29 2010 07:53 Antisocialmunky wrote: JP was quite quiet. I think he is a better host than a commentator. However when he does talk, it makes sense, he's just doesn't have the volume or energy of a shoutcaster. I don't really mind.
I think the real morale of this event is that X + Day[9] = awesome where X = Anything. I'm sure if you put a box turtle next to him, it would be fun to watch.
JP doesnt have enough "Sauce" ;P.
on a more serious note i thought everyone did great, and they will only get better.
The biggest problem I had in this tournament with the entire experience was with the minimal usage of the tabs in the top left. The production tab shows so much, if you as the camera and caster miss something it still works out if the production tab/mini map shows it for me. Kind of like the replay function in normal sports.
The commenting made some dull games worth watching while still keeping up my interest. Thanks for an excellent service.
I thought that Husky seemed a little like a fish out of water. There were several times, especially in his first few matches, where his co-caster had to hold his hand to help him keep up with what was going on. HD was very patient with him though and he eventually caught on.
Still, I don't think Husky brought anything special to the casts at all. HD, JP, and Day9 seemed much more familiar with the game and with the players that they were commentating on. Also, Husky was by far the most unprofessional looking. He appeared to have just gotten out of bed. In general, I'd like to see all of the casters put just a bit more effort into looking more professional when they cast. After all, they are representing a lot more than just themselves when they cast.
Day9 and HD did the best imho. I'd really like to see JP and Husky make more of an effort to get to know the players they cast. Day9 and HD seem like they know most of the players and their play styles personally.
My criticism is of day9 and JP. They are always pointing out tiny player mistakes, which I think is wrong to do. "The pool was put down at 235 minerals, little bit of a blunder." "The factory was late." To me that is like saying, "Our tournament has lesser caliber players with unrefined and sloppy play." Definitely the wrong message to send.
The adoption of the word blunder by all English commentators is pretty tiresome as well. It is said too often. I usually associate this word to mean a huge mistake. I'm not sure if that is the fully correct meaning, but hearing "a little bit of a blunder" when an SCV arrives 10 minerals late to build a supply depot it just sounds completely wrong to me.
I feel like husky and HD have way to little game sense.. for example the game of Huk vs Kiwi on Xel Naga caverns, when Huk accidentally splitted his force in the middle (running zealots and a few stalkers on the left side while the collosi went on the right side... was in their eyes "masterful micro". while all i saw was the game engine fudging it up, for him.
It might have been intended by Huk, but then It was a really bad move, as it ended him losing way to many units.
And sometimes they predict one thing, and It ends up pretty much the opposite of what they predicted , they become stunned, which makes em look pretty stupid.
Guess they have to look and play more games, so they can get a better feeling of the flow of the game.
Sean and JP do the normal routine, good as always.
Edit: Ohh I forgot.. Husky looked like a hobo! god dammit buy a cheap suit jacket, and get a haircut.
I think we should just get it over with and hire some goons to force the Plott brothers to commentate everything of any interest ever whenever they arise.
I gotta say I like how much I enjoy Day9 commentary on SC2 even though its so much worse than his commentary and casting from BW.
Don't get me wrong difference between the games is that the general understanding of SC2 as a game is still very poor (from pros to casters like Day9) and about 90% of gameplay is just applied BW knowledge.
As such casting becomes a bit difficult when you can't say for sure how certain things are even though you have a decent idea.
My whole point here is that the longer SC2 is played the harder its gonna be to cast games and this is where I think casters like HD and Husky simply won't cut it anymore.
However casters like Day9 are just gonna stand out even more cause even though he might not be able to play the game like a pro I have no doubt he'll be able to understand it just as well and thats when his casting is gonna start to shine for real (just as it did in BW).
On August 29 2010 09:11 RyanS wrote: My criticism is of day9 and JP. They are always pointing out tiny player mistakes, which I think is wrong to do. "The pool was put down at 235 minerals, little bit of a blunder." "The factory was late." To me that is like saying, "Our tournament has lesser caliber players with unrefined and sloppy play." Definitely the wrong message to send.
The adoption of the word blunder by all English commentators is pretty tiresome as well. It is said too often. I usually associate this word to mean a huge mistake. I'm not sure if that is the fully correct meaning, but hearing "a little bit of a blunder" when an SCV arrives 10 minerals late to build a supply depot it just sounds completely wrong to me.
Those tiny mistakes they point out can have a significant effect on the game. Would you rather they just ignore them and then look mystified when someone misses a timing or doesn't have enough units to attack/defend?
It's like a missed shot in basketball. I don't think anyone says, "Man, these NBA players are awful at basketball" when the commentators point out that they miss a shot.
If there's one thing being a sports fan has taught me it's that most of people hate most of the commentators most of the time, so I hope that they're not taking the criticism on this thread too much to heart.
HD & Husky looked pretty awkward in front of the camera, especially when things were a little messed up, but I've seen profession TV presenters struggle with that (infamous Bill O'Reilly autocue tantrum anyone?) so it's something they'll get used to.
As far as the commentary itself goes, I think the big thing they can learn from Day9 is just staying calm and keeping things understated. They are both a bit too excitable, which isn't so bad for one guy on a youtube video, but when you have the two of them, it doesn't really play off each other well. If you're going to have two over the top commentators you really need them to be two that disagree with each other so you can have them trying to one up each other with more and more ridiculous statements then get a good laugh at the end when one shows themselves to be completely wrong.
People have talked about play by play and analysis, but one thing I think is missing from the commentary and hasn't been talked about much is the role commentators should play in explaining the game state. Day9 does this really well in his daily shows, he'll pause and say something like "Wow, player A has 20 more food already than player B, that's such an advantage to just have more stuff" but in his live commentaries where he can't pause the game even he seems to neglect this. Really wish commentators would focus on that a bit more, we can see that someone is walking their stalkers and zealots towards the enemy base, would be nice to know how many units to expect to be there once they arrive.
Explaining the game state is a huge part of most sports commentaries (eg how often in basketball do you hear "Bulls are on a 10-2 run the last 3:30" or "Kobe Bryant with 8-13 shooting tonight after that made basket") yet it's really not done nearly enough in the SC2 commentaries I've heard to give a good sense of the big picture.
HD and Husky didn't look that bad simply because JP is also really bad. He just completely lacks any kind of emotion in his casting and it just comes off rather awkwardly. HD and Husky at least bring energy to it which is important but I agree that their game knowledge and analysis skills are sorely lacking. They also don't work that well together, lots of interrupts but this seems pretty common with the casting scene being as amateur as it is right now.
Honestly, Day9 with another pro like Gretorp is probably the best I've heard. Day9 by himself is incredible but I think 2 people is usually more interesting than one.
On August 29 2010 09:11 RyanS wrote: My criticism is of day9 and JP. They are always pointing out tiny player mistakes, which I think is wrong to do. "The pool was put down at 235 minerals, little bit of a blunder." "The factory was late." To me that is like saying, "Our tournament has lesser caliber players with unrefined and sloppy play." Definitely the wrong message to send.
The adoption of the word blunder by all English commentators is pretty tiresome as well. It is said too often. I usually associate this word to mean a huge mistake. I'm not sure if that is the fully correct meaning, but hearing "a little bit of a blunder" when an SCV arrives 10 minerals late to build a supply depot it just sounds completely wrong to me.
Those are pretty big errors relatively speaking to higher level players.
If you are playing at the highest levels those tiny mistakes do have noticeable effects on games. For example a slightly late pool can get you killed in a rush situation. Just look at LzGamer's vs Incontrol G2 where Lz pretty much had the game won but got tanks slightly late and lost or the or LzGamer vs Incontrol G3* where Lz was less than 5 seconds late on Stim.
basically, day9 plays A LOT, which makes him such an excellent commentator... But can we expect this from all the commentators? Especially with a game this young?
On August 29 2010 11:27 kickinhead wrote: basically, day9 plays A LOT, which makes him such an excellent commentator... But can we expect this from all the commentators? Especially with a game this young?
It's a preference thing. Do you want a commentator that knows what the hell is going on? HD himself even admitted that he only plays one ladder game a week. That's just not good enough, IMO. Actually, I'd love to have Day9 cast with another top top pro player just to get more insight. JP is humorous and exuberant and brings out the funny while doing most of the play by play.
they just need to convince husky that NEVER shutting up is bad. That guy talks from 5 minutes before the game til 10 minutes after the game without taking a breath. He comes off as obnoxious. Nobody is going to rival day9 on knowledge of the pro game, but they should at least work on not being annoying.
I have never really been a fan of Day9's SC2 commentary. SC2 isn't a complicated game and in depth analysis is pretty much pointless. I did however like his SC1 commentaries. It helped me understand the reasoning for Pro gamer strategies.
For example, I always thought it was stupid not to get fast reavers for PvP but I remember there was one game casted by Day9 that explained the reasoning, which is that if a player is weaker with reavers, a fast range into early expo opening can put you into a good position vs reaver openings. That depth just doesn't exist in SC2 and I feel that Day9 overanalyzes SC2 to the point where its frustrating.
I got introduced to teamliquid and the whole sc2 scene with the help of HD and Husy and for that I thank them. But as I got more and more into starcraft the more I drifted from watching their vids. HD and Husky just aren't as entertaining or informative as Day[9] is.
On August 29 2010 12:33 SentrySteve wrote: To me this tourney proved HD has no place next to Day9, JP, or Husky.
i think hd is the best co caster in that he always stays calm, and gives good straight points and builds off the others sometimes. but day 9 vs husky is really a preference thing, both are funny and have pros and cons. husky makes battles fucking insane and i love his humor. but sometimes he talks over the other commentators. day 9 is also funny and laid back, and gives good insight at the right times, but he really cant make the big battles as entertaining as the others.
On August 29 2010 09:11 RyanS wrote: My criticism is of day9 and JP. They are always pointing out tiny player mistakes, which I think is wrong to do. "The pool was put down at 235 minerals, little bit of a blunder." "The factory was late." To me that is like saying, "Our tournament has lesser caliber players with unrefined and sloppy play." Definitely the wrong message to send.
No, it's like saying 'these players are making mistakes that could easily cost them the game' because it really could. Really if you don't understand how big of an impact these little errors can have you shouldn't be criticising!
I've never been a fan of Husky and HD personally. Their commentaries are definitely not top level commentaries has it has been pointed out, and the form of excitement they bring to their casting is non-contagious. Also their flow was off and they didn't seem to be working too well as a duo, but that could have just been the nerves. They are tolerable though, and I still did enjoy the matches they casted, which I feel is an important point, I just didn't enjoy them as much as I believe a different caster would enable me to.
On the other hand, I love Day[9], he even taught me a build order to use with the ladies. 8 Dinner 10 Movie 12 Move in for the kiss, and if that fails then you try to get back into the game through harassment, it's genius.
I think they all did a good job but you could notice that HD and husky were new to this. I think they got valuable experience that they will use at future events.
On August 29 2010 11:59 hacpee wrote: SC2 isn't a complicated game and in depth analysis is pretty much pointless ...That depth just doesn't exist in SC2 and I feel that Day9 overanalyzes SC2 to the point where its frustrating.
What are you on? Of course SC2 has depth. Saying that it's currently shallower than BW might be fair but saying it "isn't a complicated game" and "depth doesn't exist" is just wrong.
I enjoyed all the commentators tbh. They all have their strengths and I enjoyed Husky & HD's enthusiasm and style.
On August 29 2010 12:33 SentrySteve wrote: To me this tourney proved HD has no place next to Day9, JP, or Husky.
HD is one of the few guys who can compete with commentators from other e-sports, play by play wise. Day needs to stop casting as much as he does he gets so annoying, because he simply burns out himself as a caster he jsut says the same things a million times per broadcast.
I thought HD and Husky did a fine job. For most people watching the sc2 stream they provided enough knowledge of the game and what was going on. It's only the people who are really into it who think they are bad, for those people only Day 9 casting makes the stream good. While I do love Day 9 because he has that background of high level play which makes him point out thinks that I want to see, for the majority of people, the other casters are fine.
Can't we just agree that Day[9] was the most professional caster there. HD, Day[9], and JP are amateurs compared to him. However, they all did fantastic. And yes, some of them need to work on game sense, I'm sure they will read this thread and be like, oh shi-. Good job on the casting. Keep up the hard work.
On August 29 2010 04:06 Jibba wrote: The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
Please do tell me about it.
omg VOD please hahaha
Agreed, must see.
WoW is already a pretty tough game to spectate, so I can't imagine how horrible Fragdolls did.
On August 29 2010 13:12 okaygo wrote: Can't we just agree that Day[9] was the most professional caster there. HD, Day[9], and JP are amateurs compared to him. However, they all did fantastic. And yes, some of them need to work on game sense, I'm sure they will read this thread and be like, oh shi-. Good job on the casting. Keep up the hard work.
It's not the number one priority of a caster to provide strategical analysis. Casters number one priority is to entertain. That's why it's so easy for someone to tune in to a quake or quake related broadcast(a lot of quake casters cast WOW games for example) and enjoy the game with no prior knowledge simply because the commentators are accessible and entertaining. Like 2GD for example when he started casting WoW he did not know much about the game but it was he who made the games entertaining and not his more experienced co-caster. You guys are just too deprived of real quality casts and are too close minded to accept anyone into your elitist society who didnt get an A on PGT.
On August 29 2010 13:20 Sfydjklm wrote:It's not the number one priority of a caster to provide strategical analysis. Casters number one priority is to entertain. That's why it's so easy for someone to tune in to a quake or quake related broadcast(a lot of quake casters cast WOW games for example) and enjoy the game with no prior knowledge simply because the commentators are accessible and entertaining. Like 2GD for example when he started casting WoW he did not know much about the game but it was he who made the games entertaining and not his more experienced co-caster. You guys are just too deprived of real quality casts and are too close minded to accept anyone into your elitist society who didnt get an A on PGT.
Wrong, the number one priority of a caster at a live event is to inform the viewer of the state of the game. You don't necessarily need to be able to commentate on the effectiveness of anyone's strategy, but if you can't tell the viewers what is taking place and what is likely going to take place, you're not doing your job right, plain and simple as that.
Edit: If all we're asking them to do is be entertaining, the best solution would be to get Chill and iNcontroL liquored up and have them cast everything.
On August 29 2010 13:12 okaygo wrote: Can't we just agree that Day[9] was the most professional caster there. HD, Day[9], and JP are amateurs compared to him. However, they all did fantastic. And yes, some of them need to work on game sense, I'm sure they will read this thread and be like, oh shi-. Good job on the casting. Keep up the hard work.
It's not the number one priority of a caster to provide strategical analysis. Casters number one priority is to entertain. That's why it's so easy for someone to tune in to a quake or quake related broadcast(a lot of quake casters cast WOW games for example) and enjoy the game with no prior knowledge simply because the commentators are accessible and entertaining. Like 2GD for example when he started casting WoW he did not know much about the game but it was he who made the games entertaining and not his more experienced co-caster. You guys are just too deprived of real quality casts and are too close minded to accept anyone into your elitist society who didnt get an A on PGT.
I completely agree. Yet when I don't really get entertained by a caster, it only becomes worse when he is making wrong calls all the time or is making the trivial sound important. I found Cholera extremely entertaining although his analysis was never very deep. Nonetheless, he was an extremely engaging commentator and that's what I liked about him.
Every viewer has different tastes, but I think we can all agree that having better knowledge and analysis skills can only be an advantage.
On August 29 2010 13:12 okaygo wrote: Can't we just agree that Day[9] was the most professional caster there. HD, Day[9], and JP are amateurs compared to him. However, they all did fantastic. And yes, some of them need to work on game sense, I'm sure they will read this thread and be like, oh shi-. Good job on the casting. Keep up the hard work.
It's not the number one priority of a caster to provide strategical analysis. Casters number one priority is to entertain. That's why it's so easy for someone to tune in to a quake or quake related broadcast(a lot of quake casters cast WOW games for example) and enjoy the game with no prior knowledge simply because the commentators are accessible and entertaining. Like 2GD for example when he started casting WoW he did not know much about the game but it was he who made the games entertaining and not his more experienced co-caster. You guys are just too deprived of real quality casts and are too close minded to accept anyone into your elitist society who didnt get an A on PGT.
that's the problem, husky's mono toned screaming voice of melted together words is in no way shape or form entertaining.
and 2gd played wow in tournaments before he started casting.
When it really comes down to it, we are the minority. Think of it like this, those who go to TL tend to take Starcraft/Starcraft 2 much more seriously then others. So that is why we find that a lot of us seem to have the same opinion on the matter, especially in our acknowledgment of Day9 and not so much HD and Husky.
With that said, tournaments want people who are entertaining. Although the serious players will be watching, they will still cater to those who will keep up with the entertainment value and not so much knowledge. That's why HD and Husky are so poplar, they are entertaining and come off as knowing a lot. People like that and are drawn to it. We can only hope one (or possibly two) of these may happen; HD and Husky become more knowledgeable then they are now, Day9 becomes the top commentator in terms of tournaments, or up-and-coming commentators will arrive and possibly take over. They are not going anywhere, and I hope they become much more knowledgeable, but I will still be supporting Day9 over other commentators.
It sounds like you first started watching husky/hd once the beta started so i'm not sure how much of an informed opinion you can make on their casting overall where they had done a ton of sc: bw casting prior to the beta. That being said I think it's pretty obvious Day9 is in a higher tier of casting, but you have to give HD and Husky the benefit of the doubt since they have less experience in this kind of venue. They were adequate enough in their casting, I think you're throwing too much hate at them. Give them time and the gap will seem smaller. At least for Husky.
On August 29 2010 13:02 Butigroove wrote: HD did a better job today when he was casting with Day, imho.
I agree, I also noticed how Husky never talked too long or over Day9 although sometimes he did over HD, Day9 actually talked over Husky a few times. IMO I think 1) Day9 and Husky 3) JP and HD.
On August 29 2010 04:06 Jibba wrote: The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
Please do tell me about it.
omg VOD please hahaha
Agreed, must see.
WoW is already a pretty tough game to spectate, so I can't imagine how horrible Fragdolls did.
It was at Blizzcon 2007 and CGS ran the tourney, and I think it was broadcast on DirecTV.
Once they finally got the speaker in a good position so the audience could hear the commentating, I enjoyed it much more. I think Husky and HD did alright for their first big live public tournament. You guys are being too harsh.
You should be more harsh about MLGs handling of the SC2 crowd. I don't know if they purposely did this, but the SC2 stuff was all jammed into a corner with TWO 6 person benches and ONE screen showing the game. That's it. Most people had to sit on the floor. I feel their should have been better accommodations for the spectators. Rows of chairs and/or a second screen would have been nice. Perhaps they will learn from this and set up the next SC2 tournament better? Hope so. I like the event though, overall. Thanks all for showing up!
I only saw the Day 2 stream and I was pleasantly suprised by Husky and HD. Day9 has been a top player in BW and knows the game inside and out, so compared to him HDH definately lack some insight, but they surely did a good job considering this was their first offline casting experience. I especially like when Day9 was casting together with Husky. That was quite an entertaining combination.
I found husky to be really poor, but I don't believe it was due to his knowledge as a caster, I think he just wasn't up to the pressure. The chemistry between them was also not very good. HD on the other hand was very good at picking up Husky's slack.
Husky was mumbling around, spouting nonsense, not really talking about anything at all or anything valid for most of the casts, however he did have his charm and I do feel he has a very clear and good casting voice.
Some more experience and I feel he'd be good.
Nothing to say about day9 and JP, they're both fantastic.
Overall good show and thanks to all four of them for casting the games for us!
HD and Husky are faaarrrrr better commentators for the casual spectator, and thats what matters most in supporting SC2's rise in esports. Day9 is good but he makes just as many "mistakes" as HDH, and I put that in quotes because only the most asinine of SC2 dorks think it's relevant whether a caster can always predict the tech path of a player.
And a real fatal flaw of Day9's is his inability to work in tandem with another caster, he'll just ramble over co-casters and it's terribly awkward.
i personally thought they did rather well at live commentary then i expected. HDH i mean. D9 and JP i expected but you guys should really try casting one of your own games without break to find out how much harder it is before judging. Anyway, I enjoyed the whole atmosphere it brought to my room.
I really liked all the commentaries and I enjoyed that the caster duos also changed. I really like HD he tries to make things more professionally where as Husky seems more like the whatever guy and his style is very sloppy and doesn't therefore show much effort even if there is. I really liked the day9 and HD pair up for example. I think Husky should try to do things more professionally in the future.
On August 29 2010 04:06 Jibba wrote: The worst was when Blizzard got Fragdolls to fucking cast WoW. That was literally the most embarrassing esports moment I can remember.
Please do tell me about it.
omg VOD please hahaha
Agreed, must see.
WoW is already a pretty tough game to spectate, so I can't imagine how horrible Fragdolls did.
An arena match is totally unwatchable as a eSport, simply because it is too fast and you cant see what is happening. In an arena in ancient rome you could actually see the movement of the Gladiators and / or the Lions, but for WoW that isnt possible with all the instacasts. You are practically only watching the health bars [the numbers from scrolling combat are only for the current character] and maybe the general positioning, but that in total is extremely boring.
The total contrast to this is the feeling of the actual players, for them it is pure adrenaline, but you cant describe what happens in an arena fight simply because it is too fast. One PvP addict and his constant self-glorification in guildchat was the reason why I had to put him - a guildmate - on my ignore list. The whole concept of PvP competitions in an MMO is bad IMO.
On August 29 2010 16:27 tyrless wrote: HD and Husky are faaarrrrr better commentators for the casual spectator, and thats what matters most in supporting SC2's rise in esports. Day9 is good but he makes just as many "mistakes" as HDH, and I put that in quotes because only the most asinine of SC2 dorks think it's relevant whether a caster can always predict the tech path of a player.
And a real fatal flaw of Day9's is his inability to work in tandem with another caster, he'll just ramble over co-casters and it's terribly awkward.
I have to disagree. Everybody on 4chan and Mlgpro loved Day9 more than any of the other casters. Day9 is hilarious and also a amazing commentator. People were literally not watching the games when he was not casting.
People are really overstating the differences between the casters though. Day[9] is not nearly perfect. He makes errors in games all the time, whether you notice them or not. I think the heirarchy is something like
Day[9] > Husky > HD/JP
I believe that Day[9] is the most knowledgeable in subtle ways, like mentioning that +1 ground weapons for Protoss makes them 2-hit Zerglings instead of 3. Day[9] also usually has the best predictions for what builds people are going for and tends to miss *LESS* action than the other casters.
I personally like Husky quite a lot. He is very entertaining and I think his commentary has come a long way since the HDH. He is fairly knowledgeable about builds. He does miss some action sometimes, but it is in improvement over the past, for the most part.
I think HD has improved a lot less so than Husky. I feel his knowledge of the game needs some work, especially about some of the builds and timing windows players can use. Some of his map analysis too can be pretty bad at times. You need to play more than once a week, HD!
JP, I feel really suffers when he is with Day[9]. He is really outshadowed by Day[9] because Day[9] is just so much more enthusiastic about the game. Honestly, I don't think it is that much of a bad thing since what people obviously want is more Day[9]. I would really, really like to see more of the cross pairings in the future, I think it can only do good things for JP.
Edit: I mean JP is really just playing support most of the time. If Day[9] is watching the Terran base for the audience talking about the double marauders, marine, reaper push, then JP will watch the Protoss base and just inform about any tech buildings going down and add something like "we might see immortals".
On August 29 2010 16:30 AmaZing wrote: i personally thought they did rather well at live commentary then i expected. HDH i mean. D9 and JP i expected but you guys should really try casting one of your own games without break to find out how much harder it is before judging. Anyway, I enjoyed the whole atmosphere it brought to my room.
Pretty much this. I was going to write up some big thing about all the random stuff that makes casting work the way it does, but the best exercise for anyone who's looking to actually give some serious feedback about how the commentators performed is to try and do it yourself. This isn't a "LETS SEE YOU DO BETTER HUH" sort of nonsense argument, I actually recommend just giving it a try to see what it's like. Even if you just open up sound recorder and do an audio cast of some random game off sc2replayed or something, go do it. Listen to it afterward. You'll come to understand a lot (or possibly discover that you're amazing at it and thus should consider doing some yourself).
Couple short points off the top of my head:
- If the caster doesn't get excited, the game is not exciting. It doesn't matter what's going on in the game; your brain mentally parses audio as more important than video. This is why casters tend to "fake" excitement. It's also why they tend to announce how great it is that Player A is making drones or how brilliant Player B is for going 4gate stalkers.
- Co-casting is easier than solo casting in some ways but much harder in others. This is why, in a lot of commentary teams, one caster (usually one who's more accustomed to solo casting) tends to take the spotlight while another just backs them up. Everyone likes to criticize JP for being "that guy that talks sometimes when Day9 is casting", but I actually think he's pretty awesome at what he does. Its tough to really explain how amazing having a good backup can be. Compare Day9's performance on a solo cast to Day9's performance with JP backing him up. He does fine solo, but he's able to be much more potent and visceral with some backup.
- Filling time is tough. Generally speaking, the caster should be talking pretty much constantly (breaks shouldn't be longer than a couple seconds at most). Even when co-casting it can be tough not only thinking of something to fill time, but judging how much time you need to fill on the fly. End result: sometimes you have to cut yourself off because something more interesting is happening. It's really really REALLY tough to try and transition from how siege tanks are too expensive to mass off of one base so he needs to take his expansion soon if he OH MY GOD THERES A NYDUS WORM IN THE BACK OF HIS MAIN HE SEES IT BUT HIS ARMY IS SO FAR AWAY HES NOT GONNA MAKE IT IN TIME
That being said, I do have some constructive criticisms:
- Catchphrases and signature terms are fun and endearing (HUGE BLUNDER, etc) but they're easy to overuse. My subconscious will notice when you're saying it too much, which causes me to start thinking about how often you're saying your funny catchphrase, and as a result my attention is lost from the game. Those are the moments where you lose your audience and they decide to go do something else.
- I do hate how some casters havegotten this weird speech pattern where they do put emphasis on words that don't really need them as though everything is just confirming a suspicion that they did talk about previously even though they have not mentioned it before. It does start to get annoying after a while and does make me feel like I am talking to a camel or something because every sentence does have this weird hump in the middle.
"So here we go this is going to be game 1 which is on Lost Temple and we do see that we do have cross positions here as the terran player has spawned in the 3 o'clock position while the protoss player is on the other side of the map in the 9 o'clock position. So we see he is going for a standard 13 gateway which is the most common protoss opener so we will have to see if he goes for another gateway or if he does decide to get his cybernetics core first..." yeah, that drives me nuts.
i'm not the biggest husky hd fan but they did their jobs and it was their first live event (in front of a crowd) so obviously they had jitters. i think hd and husky videos are really good for newer players, i know all my new sc2 friends like husky and watch his videos regularly, whereas i think day9 is more of the comedian/indepth guy. seriously his standup is badass
On August 29 2010 18:46 DarkspearTribe wrote: This thread went from MLG caster feedback to MLG caster bashing
While some posts are definately centered around bashing some of them while promoting their own favorite caster, quite a few of em do give decent feedback that should be considered for the next broadcasts. The post above yours is a good example.
It'll only serve our own enjoyment of the casts to give them some things to improve upon for the future.
That said, I hope they won't set a specific team of casters just yet. I guess it's obvious that Day9 will have to be included in all future events, but the other spot(s) should still very much stay fair game for all of them. If MLG doesn't want to hire 4 casters each time (understandably so), take Day + one of them for one event each and see how it plays out. It was a nice preview to see them all cast one set of games together, but it's definately not enough to base a long-term decision on I'd say.
On August 29 2010 18:46 DarkspearTribe wrote: This thread went from MLG caster feedback to MLG caster bashing
While some posts are definately centered around bashing some of them while promoting their own favorite caster, quite a few of em do give decent feedback that should be considered for the next broadcasts. The post above yours is a good example.
It'll only serve our own enjoyment of the casts to give them some things to improve upon for the future.
See, I don't know that this is true. It's not like the comments in this thread are novel. There's at least 2 other megathreads where we've seen every single thing said in here before.
Oh? My mistake then, I'm a hardcore lurker but I didn't particularly remember those.
Well, at least here each caster will find some commentary about his own performance and they're apparently actively reading it too, which might serve to reinforce some points and to invalidate others, depending on the "general consensus" between all these threads.
Anyway, I enjoyed reading (some) people's opinion on the mixed caster-duos so I'm happy with this thread at least.
What is JP's reason for starting to cast? From what I gathered from the King of the Beta Hill and the State of the Game podcasts he is a former WoW player that did content for MLG for WoW, such as podcasts about arena. I assume that when MLG decided to get into Starcraft 2 they just assigned JP to be their SC2 community person, and that's why he ends up casting a lot of things. He's learning well and seems very commited to becoming a good caster, but does he even have any brood war experience? and is it wise of MLG to play safe with one of their own people when there might be better casters in the community? (think Chill, DJWheat)
I think people overstate how good HDH are for 'newer' players or even people who are unfamiliar with SC2.
Basically it doesn't matter if a commentator is talking about pretty deep analytical stuff that Day9 likes. Rather it is how the commentary is presented. Someone unfamiliar with the game would be more drawn to Day and JP just because they worked much better together; they had a much better flow, could fill downtime with banter and had very clearly defined roles in their commentary. The end result is something that is much more professional sounding and listenable for people of any background and any skill level. The accuracy of the information or how much "gamesense" the commentator is showing don't come into it. If a new person likes the general 'tone' of what they are hearing they will be encouraged to learn more about it. Hearing some rambling from a bunch of nerds (and I don't want to be mean by saying that; we're all nerds here) does not encourage a person to stick around.
Look at TotalBiscuit; he does not have an incredibly deep understanding of the game (by his own admission) but he has a great casting voice and can keep people listening by providing a fun commentary that doesn't sound like he's trying to fill up space. HDH just can't really provide that; together or alone.
The thing that really strikes me about them is that they don't sound like they've improved from the early days of the beta which is kind of concerning. Maybe they have, I don't watch many of their videos nowadays, but it is kind of odd since they both love this game and are obviously very passionate about what they do. I will echo the statements that they worked better when paired with Day9 rather than each other. I think thats definitely more a case of their styles of commentating (which are quite similar) not meshing with each other.
As was said several times already, I think that they were all good. I also think that Day9 has a lot more experience, and that shows a little bit. There is no doubt in my mind; however, that HD and Husky will keep getting better and better.
ok, i saw this topic 2 days ago i said to myself m gonna read it another day but now this topic got 23 pages WTF ? can someone write me a short version ? i dont belive that at least 50% of post here are trolls :D
and my personal opinion, all the caster where great ! the olny monets the hole thing was inconsistent was when they had to talk about random thing because some game got delayed for whatever reson and believe me is not easy when u got a plan in ur head and sundenly u have to change it and talk about anything just to keep talking.
Day9 JP Husky HD I think they all did a great job. Husky and HD, more so HD, need to actually play the game more and actually know all the ins and outs and unit names, They also need better camera viewing and need to pay attention to mini map better. Day9 is just a seasoned vet, Husky and HD will get there one day. It's very early in sc2's life. JP is just... felt like Day9 overpowered him but he definitely pretty good.
I love all the setup day9 and JP did. The troll masks, or day9's short standup. HD and Husky aren't bad, but need to work on their off-game talks more.
Day9 has over 10 years of experience. HD and Husky just started casting a few months ago during beta. Considering the amount of time between the two I think HD/Husky are amazing.
Yes, HD and Husky do need more practice. That doesn't mean they are bad. I think the MLG production staff caused more casting issues than the casters. The time between games and the lack of filler. They just leaned on the casters to kill time which isn't fair. Yeah Day9 can do it because he does a 45 minute show every day buy HD/Husky aren't use to that. They aren't that kind of casters, yet.
I think the casters did an overall good job at mlg. The things I was displeased with was the presentation of casting.
We have Day9/JP/HD all in blazers trying to look semi professional (awesome!) Then we have husky who looks like he's 12 and his mommy didn't dress him that day; hair sticking up in the back, sweat shirt. Cmon now that's not professional at all.
I would like to see HD/Husky get a little more experience under their belts and instead try and avoid speaking at 9 million words a minute with every few moments having their tone rise as if something epic happens every game (e.g., OMG HE'S BUILDING A THOR!!!) and instead try and add more meaningful commentary to each game. You have to keep in mind that some people who aren't veterans at starcraft may want to watch MLG and more descriptions of what's going on might help rather than just saying what's on the screen.
On August 29 2010 03:09 universalwill wrote: i really don't like to be disrespectful, but hd and husky have absolutely no understanding of the game. i'm more tolerant of husky thank hd because husky's commentaries are more lighthearted and play-by-play than hd's analytical style. hd tries to be day9, but the problem is that hd's understanding of the game is about what you'd find in gold league. he makes a ton of incorrect calls, misses important details, sometimes he doesn't correctly call which player is ahead. obviously hd and husky are likable guys with a knack for casting, but they need to learn more about how the game works if they want to stay at the top of the commentary hill. it's simply annoying hearing them spouting false information to huge audiences filled with many lower level players who are going to believe them.
Really? No understanding of the game? So they don't know that drones collect minerals and buildings produce units? I guess that means you have absolutely no understanding of what these casters are saying than! And I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but this is the kind of hyperbolic trolling that tells me HDH haters are just trying to find a reason to show how hardcore they are.
On August 29 2010 21:56 Bosscelot wrote: I think people overstate how good HDH are for 'newer' players or even people who are unfamiliar with SC2.
Basically it doesn't matter if a commentator is talking about pretty deep analytical stuff that Day9 likes. Rather it is how the commentary is presented. Someone unfamiliar with the game would be more drawn to Day and JP just because they worked much better together; they had a much better flow, could fill downtime with banter and had very clearly defined roles in their commentary. The end result is something that is much more professional sounding and listenable for people of any background and any skill level. The accuracy of the information or how much "gamesense" the commentator is showing don't come into it. If a new person likes the general 'tone' of what they are hearing they will be encouraged to learn more about it. Hearing some rambling from a bunch of nerds (and I don't want to be mean by saying that; we're all nerds here) does not encourage a person to stick around.
Look at TotalBiscuit; he does not have an incredibly deep understanding of the game (by his own admission) but he has a great casting voice and can keep people listening by providing a fun commentary that doesn't sound like he's trying to fill up space. HDH just can't really provide that; together or alone.
The thing that really strikes me about them is that they don't sound like they've improved from the early days of the beta which is kind of concerning. Maybe they have, I don't watch many of their videos nowadays, but it is kind of odd since they both love this game and are obviously very passionate about what they do. I will echo the statements that they worked better when paired with Day9 rather than each other. I think thats definitely more a case of their styles of commentating (which are quite similar) not meshing with each other.
this guy said it a lot better than most in the past 20 pages
Good commenting in a pair is often distinguished by the humorous side and the knowledge-based side. Unfortunately with the Day9+JP combo both sides seems to be represented exclusively by Day9.
I'd love to see Raelcun, TheGunRun and CatZ commenting live on a LAN-tournament btw. TheGunRuns soothing voice is actually awesome and casts with CatZ as the sidekick are truly insane funnieh! :D
I think HD and Husky are fine. Yes there are things they should probably work on if they want to be "pros" and do it for a living legitimately, but right now they're still a couple of dudes who took up a mic.
Also, they are extremely entertaining for beginners and people who are just fans. One of my favorite things to hear is Husky calling out "STOOORM." People need to get a little bit off their high horse and be more supportive. JP has a professionalism about him, but not nearly as entertaining as either HD or Husky.
When you progress as a player a little bit more, you start leaning more towards Day9's commentary because of his analysis and communication skills.
As far as improvement, I agree, if HD and Husky don't improve, they'll always be just two dudes shouting, but if they do, it'll be awesome because they have a great chance to improve the community with their fanbase.
HD and Husky will continue to improve, no doubt about that. It does take time to get adjusted and adapt to a new environment. If you don't believe me, look at every pro gamer who brings theirn on Keyboard/mouse and possibly PC just to get a bit of normality. Trying to shoutcasts games is diffucult and many times people only highlight the errors. Even professional sports announcers make the wrong calls when trying to do a play by play and pitch by pitch in baseball. As long as they don't detract from the game and offer knowledge to a wide audience, it is fine.
EPT
We all have different tastes/preferences. 
![[image loading]](http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9917/proxy.jpg)
