EPTSituation report 1 posted! - Page 57
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:39 NATO wrote: How many counters does zerg need? They're insanely slow, which makes them almost unusable as they get caught off guard too often. Zerg already has two hard counters - infestors and corruptors coming from two different tech trees. Plus against hydras, they barely win. Hydras barely win against BC? Are you out of your mind? Or have you just never researched Yamato cannon? | ||
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
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Volkov
United States71 Posts
I would say that's horrendous. I am betting that this patch will bring ZvT sliiiiiightly closer to even (but Terran will still completely dominate) - but PvT will now just drop. Because MMM is now even more powerful now that it will take even longer to get a decent anti-MMM force out of gateways (particularly for all-in MMM builds). Terran will be dominating even more as a result of this patch. That's my bet. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:33 Smigi wrote: Well, in Terms of PvZ, yes. It was necessary , Zealot would accumulate in numbers rapidly with 2 gate and have no consequences. This 5 second nerf will gave Zerg more time to respond. However, you must look at other match ups. Againist Terran, they made tanks almost useless againist Zealots. and Reaper build time nerf by 5 and Zealot build time nerf by 5, it basically makes no change. You guys are taking this 6 pool thing way out of porportion. Just vote down Steppes, and you'll be fine. Hopefully we actually get some decent and well balanced maps that don't have the rush distance of my front door to my mail box. You could have said exactly the same for the zealot rush regarding maps. 2 gating was hardly no consequences it does take an economy hit but maybe not enough of one. Was the one thing I hated facing PvP. I can see why they did it though but it limits protoss' choices of builds at the start not that there was much of a choice in the first place there is even less now. If 6 pool is going to be a problem like it was when these changes were briefly put into beta on many maps the first zealot would come out just after the lings appear giving free access to probes for a couple of seconds. If thats the case it will be pretty obvious and they will change it so I am not overly worried. The most annoying thing to me is that this change also affects my build and i didnt build early zealots i prefer stalkers. The warpgate change alone is going to change that, how much i will have to see. Tanks are hardly going to be useless against zealots ok they wont kill them as quickly but i think thats the only unit that really is affected too since stalkers immortals collossus etc are all armoured. Reaper was not really a problem v P but i could see it for zerg though. | ||
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DarkSeerTurbo
United States105 Posts
1. Tier 1 (1.5 if you count the add-on..) unit 2. Very beefy unit 3. Double damage against armored 4. Ridiculous 50/50 cost of concussive (compare to 200/200 zealot charge or 150/150 blink) 5. 50% movement speed decrease with each concussive hit!! (1.5 second duration with refresh on each hit!) 6. Zero cooldown time or mana cost (compare to zealot charge and stalker blink cd) 7. Low cost How, please, is this balanced? Even pro Terran players have said the marauder is too strong. The marauder, as it stands right now, is definitely within the top 3 best bang for buck units SC2 has. I feel that this is a fair change: 1. Instead of dealing double damage against armored units, make the damage 18 (it shaves off 2 damage against armored, damage to light units unaffected). Even with this change, the marauder is still strong but more reasonable. 2. Make concussive shells proct on every other hit. Each hit can be labeled as 1 or 0. If a marauder shoots 5 times, it will be 1-0-1-0-1. Every 1 procts a concussive blast (if it's researched, which it almost always will be due to extremely low cost and research time) while every zero is a normal shot. Due to the 1.5 duration of concussive blast, this new implementation will be a very slight nerf while giving other races a chance to retreat without suffering ridiculous casualties. Also, the setting should automatically be reset to 1 (again, a 1 procts concussive shells) after three seconds of inactivity/nonfighting so that slow will proct on his next attack (regardless of whether his last hit was a 1 or 0). I feel that this is a fair change. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
BW worked for many many years with 35 damage to light (ie small) units and tank lines were still scary as shit. That was with crappy AI too. Although, I have to admit that tanks don't work quite the same way anymore. In BW, you had vultures w/ mines to cover the tank to prevent light (ie small) units bum-rushing the tank line without heavy casualties. Now, with the absence of mines, it's much much easier to bum-rush the weakened tanks. Maybe in-field bunkers will become utilized more to help facilitate tank use; or perhaps mass hellions w/ pre-ignitor upgrades can cover the tanks from the light units. It's way too early to make judgments but I'm sure everything will work out fine. Especially considering how useless tanks were considered to be in the beginning of beta. | ||
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ninjaclip
United States7 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:49 branflakes14 wrote: Charge has a cooldown. It give the Zealot 1 guaranteed hit, after which it gets kited until the cooldown is up on charge. Immortals drop fast when focused, same with Collossi. Stim Pack also helps with this. Good god it helps with this. With no upgrades, 10 stimmed Marauders will kill an Immortal before it can fire a 2nd shot. if your fighting 10 marauders with 1 immortal you deserve a reward :D 1000/250 vs 250/100? uh duh? | ||
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Volkov
United States71 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:54 DarkSeerTurbo wrote: One of the first things to look at when talking about Terran balance is the marauder. Zero mention of the marauder is just disappointing. Take a quick glance at his specs: 1. Tier 1 (1.5 if you count the add-on..) unit 2. Very beefy unit 3. Double damage against armored 4. Ridiculous 50/50 cost of concussive (compare to 200/200 zealot charge or 150/150 blink) 5. 50% movement speed decrease with each concussive hit!! (1.5 second duration with refresh on each hit!) 6. Zero cooldown time or mana cost (compare to zealot charge and stalker blink cd) 7. Low cost How, please, is this balanced? Even pro Terran players have said the marauder is too strong. The marauder, as it stands right now, is definitely within the top 3 best bang for buck units SC2 has. I feel that this is a fair change: 1. Instead of dealing double damage against armored units, make the damage 18 (it shaves off 2 damage against armored, damage to light units unaffected). Even with this change, the marauder is still strong but more reasonable. 2. Make concussive shells proct on every other hit. Each hit can be labeled as 1 or 0. If a marauder shoots 5 times, it will be 1-0-1-0-1. Every 1 procts a concussive blast (if it's researched, which it almost always will be due to extremely low cost and research time) while every zero is a normal shot. Due to the 1.5 duration of concussive blast, this new implementation will be a very slight nerf while giving other races a chance to retreat without suffering ridiculous casualties. Also, the setting should automatically be reset to 1 (again, a 1 procts concussive shells) after three seconds of inactivity/nonfighting so that slow will proct on his next attack (regardless of whether his last hit was a 1 or 0). I feel that this is a fair change. It's not balanced. MMM in general is absurdly imbalanced. That said, I think it's pretty blatantly obvious at this point that Blizzard does not care about the competitive community. | ||
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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:52 Jenslyn87 wrote: The immortal IS cost effective against marauders, but not to any great degree at all. not even that, actualy.. just a-moved in to each other, 1 immortal will kill 3 marauders without stim, with stim, the marauders kill the Immortal.. and it is not even close. apply some micro and you can actualy kill a Immortal with 3 Marauders and only lose one. immortals are just so fucking bad and i facepalm everytime someone suggest that someone should "rush to Immortals" against early Marauder preasure... sadly, they are right because it is the best option for early game Toss if they dont want to be locked in to there base and try some funky 1 base templar or Starport play. i still think that those patchnotes are not complete, i still think that there is some more to come. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
This isn't the full patch. More buffs and nerfs will come. Calm down =) And I think Marauders need to be looked at more to find out what is imbalanced about them. Maybe it is just a numbers nerf. | ||
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:55 ninjaclip wrote: if your fighting 10 marauders with 1 immortal you deserve a reward :D 1000/250 vs 250/100? uh duh? Focusing down units that are in the middle of an army isn't uncommon. Marauders aiming at Immortals wouldn't surprise anyone. | ||
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drhoon
3 Posts
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ghettohobbit2
United States93 Posts
Tanks were nerfed for 60 damage down to 50 so that Marines+Shield could take an extra shot. And... now it's been nerfed again down to 35+15? Why not 35+25? And I play Zerg FFS.... | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:58 Whole wrote: To those who are complaining about Marauders: This isn't the full patch. More buffs and nerfs will come. Calm down =) And I think Marauders need to be looked at more to find out what is imbalanced about them. Maybe it is just a numbers nerf. you don't know that. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:43 Fantistic wrote: You think Marauders counter chargelots, HTs, DTs, Immortals and Collossi? You must be new. O wait don't Marauders out range the slow and clunky Immortals? O wait they do, and with slow I consider Marauders a counter with decent control (any diamond player). HT suck vs Marauder Collosi aren't so great either. | ||
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AmaZing
Nepal299 Posts
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