EPTSituation report 1 posted! - Page 59
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FunkyLich
United States107 Posts
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Kippers
United Kingdom100 Posts
Anyways ontopic of the changes, hopefully i can still get the all importent first zealot out in pvz to block the choke. As for the warpgate changes... something to wait and see. | ||
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Volkov
United States71 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:24 Kippers wrote: Can i bite a bullet and say ive had fairly good success using high temp / zealot / archon [+ few sentries] vs MnM. Archons tank and do very nice damage, you can also merge your high templar as soon as they are out of energy. This path also allows you to get the +2 upgrades, and charge which helps cut through maruders much quicker. Vs ghosts you just have to rely on feedbacking them in an ambush manner [hiding high templar, when the army gets near shoot off the feedbacks before the terran knows whats hit him]. Without ghosts HTs are indeed great against MMM, won't deny that. But ambushing ghosts? Let me know (PM if you like) if you have some replays/vids of that, I really want to see some examples. My issue is that an EMP (which hits several HTs) usually goes off long before feedbacks (which hit 1 ghost only). | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
With the exception of the ultralisk, I can't think of any situation where I am getting tanks to kill roaches, or stalkers. I get tanks to defend my bio against banelings, and zealots and high templars and marines. The only units that I really feel required to get tanks against, are now the units against which the tank will be way too ineffective cost wise. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:21 Volkov wrote: Yes, and terrans have scan. (Which sure as hell goes off on the army before an engagement). Observers do of course help, but the problem is - EMP is instant, versus storm takes a couple seconds to kill the units. So good ghost micro ends up EMPing a good portion of the HTs one way or the other. (And let's not forget how much gas HTs require compared to ghosts). You could of course label me or someone else who says this a terrible player, and wouldn't be far from truth. But that doesn't really address my point. Terran cannot scan in a way that allows their site range to match observers. An observer 4 range away from your main army ensures your HT can hit their ghost first while being safe from ravens if its that late in the game. Terran can only preemptively scan (in which you can simply retreat and wait ten seconds), or alternatively reactively scan, but the actions required to do that would put them at a disadvantage compared to toss. EMP is instant, versus storm takes a couple seconds to kill the units ....nobodies telling you to storm their ghosts, you feedback their ghosts then storm -_-. Second of all, EMP takes an infinite amount of time to kill units because it doesn't damage health. In fact, a delayed emp will do zero damage, it is only maximally effective within the first few seconds of an engagement. good portion of the HTs one way or the other No. I'll admit they should get a portion of your army, but it will hit primarily zealots, taking only 33% of their health away, and a few stalkers, but if you micro properly ghosts can't kill hts neutral on or defensive ground. This is compounded doubly if you can hold high ground. (And let's not forget how much gas HTs require compared to ghosts) 150/150 compared to 50/200. OH NOES | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:04 BeyondCtrL wrote: O wait don't Marauders out range the slow and clunky Immortals? O wait they do, and with slow I consider Marauders a counter with decent control (any diamond player). HT suck vs Marauder Collosi aren't so great either. Get enough of them, and Colossi hard-counter Marauders when protected by an ablative zealot meatshield. It's not even close. The problem with Marauders is that they are so god-darned strong in the early game, before you can build up your Colossi numbers. | ||
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
On August 28 2010 09:13 VorcePA wrote: Wow. I disagree with all these changes. Maps: So the destructible rocks provide a temporary defense, as opposed to just changing the map outright for Z/P players? You couldn't just narrow the entrances? I like the two paths to an opponents base, so perhaps 2 layers of rocks one side of each player's base (coupled with the narrowed entrances) would be in order. Protoss: It's sooooo time to proxy barracks rush them. Proxy rax and 6 pool rush is going to dominate them :\ Terran: Reapers are pretty much useless outside of Zerg, and now they're being made more useless. Fantastic. The build time increase is warranted, but something needs to be buffed to offset that changed, otherwise they're just never going to be used outside of cheese strats. Increasing their damage by +1 or +2 or adding 10 more HP, or giving them +10 hp with the shield upgrades that marines get (while still increasing their build time) would possibly see them mixed in with a Terran's main army in all 3 match ups. Zerg: Yeah, ok. Ultralisks don't already have pathing problems, now they're going to also reduce the damage they do? I could see this change justifiable if they added +1 range to ultralisks so they could hit over smaller units such as lings/blings. I have no comment on ram, except that I think buildings are destroyed a little too quickly in general by all things that do bonus damage vs. armored. I hope I'm wrong, but this shit looks ridiculous. wow and i disagree with everything u just said. and im so happy that ur not on the balancing team. protoss: ever heard of using cronno boost on ur gateways rather then ur nexus? prolly not. this patch is buffing the shit out of zealots vs terran mech. terran: i play random diamond in all divisions. obviously u dont play any team games because they are littered with reapers EVERYWHERE. they needed this nurf big time and u want to buff them? what game are u playing? doesnt sound like sc2 zerg: u know the more i read the more clear it is to me that u dont have a clue what ur talking about. go post on the blizzard forums. blizzard has addressed the range issue already. on top of that ultras will be even better against building now.. being able to do splash to clumped stuff ei cannons supply depots and anything walling a choke. making them MUCH better at breaking through. ps no need to "hope" your wrong because u are. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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Oleksandr
United States227 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:06 StupidFatHobbit wrote: probably because unlike zvt, pvt doesn't make you want to claw your eyes out with rusty nails - just regular nails This! ^^^^ | ||
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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fathead
United States158 Posts
I'm not complaining about the ult nerf either, ults raped stalker/col so bad it was quite funny. I'm not sure what to think about the BC nerf. I only ever see BCs in 2v2 or 3v3, so I don't really care. 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 are just silly anyway. Chat channels are awesome! Would love to see them let you watch reps online one day also. That would make the game perfect. All in all it seems like blizzard knows what its doing and is constantly making painfully slow yet steady progress. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:10 Volkov wrote: Also, anything about protoss anti-air? They don't seem to think it's a problem. But let's see: Ghosts hard counter HTs, Vikings OWN Colossi and Void Rays. Phoenixes are useless. Completely disagree. Phoenix are on cost-efficiency parity against Vikings, deal very well with Ravens (which are otherwise very problematic to deal with due to PDD), can harass with Graviton Beam, take out Medivacs... they are a pretty good unit in the TvP matchup, IMO. Complaining about Vikings > Void Rays would be like complaining about Speedlings > Marauders; some units are designed to be cost-efficient against others. | ||
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BrightLegacy
United States56 Posts
EDIT: Actually that seems like a bad suggestion, They should have just made it so warped in zealots took longer, but gateway'd zealots took as long as they used too. I can't even imagine how effective proxy raxs will be now. | ||
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smore
United States156 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:29 Zato-1 wrote: The problem with Marauders is that they are so god-darned strong in the early game, before you can build up your Colossi numbers. So they're like Hydras in BW ZvP before you get an appropriate Templar/Reaver count. Somehow I don't remember people complaining that Hydras fight Dragoons cost effectively or that they can kite zealots. But you turn a speed upgrade into a slowing attack, and it suddenly becomes overpowered. | ||
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Volkov
United States71 Posts
On August 28 2010 10:28 Half wrote: Terran cannot scan in a way that allows their site range to match observers. An observer 4 range away from your main army ensures your HT can hit their ghost first while being safe from ravens if its that late in the game. Terran can only preemptively scan (in which you can simply retreat and wait ten seconds), or alternatively reactively scan, but the actions required to do that would put them at a disadvantage compared to toss. Well, if you can get enough observers to perfectly protect your templar that way - then sure, that'll probably work. I highly doubt that's consistently possible in a real game. If you had a different experience and feel that realistically achievable observer play consistently protects your HTs - good for you. I haven't seen any reason to believe that, and not just from my own play. On August 28 2010 10:28 Half wrote: ....nobodies telling you to storm their ghosts, you feedback their ghosts then storm -_-. Second of all, EMP takes an infinite amount of time to kill units because it doesn't damage health. In fact, a delayed emp will do zero damage, it is only effective within the first few seconds of an engagement. My point with EMP is that it can't be dodged to lower its effect, versus storms are dodged routinely, even by poor players. My problem with feedbacking the ghosts is that not only you are using one spell per (relatively cheap) unit, compared to ghosts being able to EMP multiple HTs (thus making them useless), but also that the micro requirements are just asymmetric. Again, if your micro is so top notch that you can consistently feedback all the ghosts to prevent them from ever EMPing your casters and heavy units - then everything I am saying is irrelevant. But for most players that's not the case. On August 28 2010 10:28 Half wrote: No. I'll admit they should get a portion of your army, but it will hit primarily zealots, taking only 33% of their health away, and a few stalkers, but if you micro properly ghosts can't kill emp on neutral of defensive ground. This is compounded doubly if you can hold high ground. Like I said, if your micro is that consistent, then good for you. But even with perfect micro (certainly not mine, hence my complaining), I seriously doubt that you can protect all your templar from EMPs. Not to mention that like 2 feedbacks is 1 less storm. On August 28 2010 10:28 Half wrote: 150/150 compared to 50/200. OH NOES First, that's not too insignificant, but I was referring to the cost including the abilities. EMP is available from the start, versus storm takes a while (and lots of gas) to research. And cloak is again cheaper to research than storm. | ||
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bendez
Canada283 Posts
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ziteNiA
Sweden73 Posts
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unit
United States2621 Posts
2-3gate zealot and 4korean warpgate are very annoying (even to do) and keep the fun parts of the mu hidden because of zealot wars in the early game...i feel that lings need a slight attack buff and marauders need a nerf somehow (possibly removal of stim??? though that might be too much) YAY CHAT CHANNELS! and im looking forward to removing DO from my "dont give me this map" list ^^ soon i will be playing all the maps ^^ | ||
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