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On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division.
....
Look at the date of the OP, and then reevaluate your post.
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I literally stalk TL 26h a day with my time travel device. it gives me enough time to filter through some of the poop that the bad posters are throwing around.
(bad diamond and bronze posters)
but sometimes i hear something a bronze player has to say and perhaps it was by devine intervention, an understanding of this or another game, or something all together random but i take something away from the post (im not going to use the BO but something to the effect of "huh maybe throwing in an extra overseer and focusing a bit on corrupting researching buildings could be viable in the early mid game" or "my void rays dont have to be harrasing from they side they do work just fine over my stalkers blasting down the wall") its still a baby game.
Being in bronze should not mean you do not have the credentials to post. like chill says sc2 just needs more humility. you dont have to be good to post an idea. you do have to be the best to refute an idea tho.
and the manners of so many people here! gosh! so many people ONLY have posts disagreeing with people. if everyone posted ideas as just ideas and pros as pros and cons as cons the brainstorming aspect of our forums would be invaliable. forget if they know what they are talking about as long as they are mannered i say post away and perhaps your words will inspire better players to manipulate your newbie bronze idea into a serious stratagy.
what bothers me by far the most is everyones immediate reaction to everything in the strat forum namely "hat will get roflpizzerowntedstomed by strat A" in which case every original poster should respond then dont do it vs strat A. tl was very refined and mannered before beta.
get manners tlers... because i still love you.
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On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division.
Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical.
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On September 15 2010 05:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division. Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical.
you sir, aren't playing zerg.
I'd take my SC:BW mecanics back if you don't mind  Queen is a pain!!
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i was d- on iccup. now im 600 diamond. woopiedoodadoesn'tmeanjackshitday
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On September 15 2010 05:53 Konsume wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division. Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical. you sir, aren't playing zerg. I'd take my SC:BW mecanics back if you don't mind Queen is a pain!!
Touche. :p
Let me rephrase: IF YOU PLAY TERRAN OR PROTOSS, it is very possible for you to rank higher in SC2 than in BW because of the easier mechanics.
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Good post, I am not 100% sure on the accuracy of the ranking only because it based off of your single experience. I would like to see more players validate your rankings.
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On September 15 2010 05:56 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:53 Konsume wrote:On September 15 2010 05:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division. Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical. you sir, aren't playing zerg. I'd take my SC:BW mecanics back if you don't mind Queen is a pain!! Touche. :p Let me rephrase: IF YOU PLAY TERRAN OR PROTOSS, it is very possible for you to rank higher in SC2 than in BW because of the easier mechanics.
This is the case for me, at least. One of the largest fights you'll have as a new BW player is against the game itself. Dragoons doing whatever the fuck they want to do, bio control, and proper mutalisk management are things that take an immense amount of practice. Turn the page to SC2 and you get a smarter, more forgiving game, especially for newer players.
I think as long as you can scout actively, and respond to that information properly, then you too can become a SC2 diamond player. The time will come, though, that diamond will most likely mean something very different than platinum. Even now I see this discrepancy increasing daily.
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On September 13 2010 23:34 Effect010 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:28 Dragonsven wrote:
Yet another post describing why diamond players are not good and only old school players should comment on anything. I was expecting a rule on post count by the end. You should realize this kind of elitism does not work and you will end up driving all the new posters away once the initial boost from SC2 ends.
User was temp banned for this post. why especially is he not allowed to criticize this treath? i don´t see him bm´ing anyone...
This is the only thing i dislike about this forum. Bans and such are thrown around like candy. I cant count the amount of bans/warnings ive seen that are completely uncalled for. ive seen people SCARED to simply state thier opinion due to the reckless uncalled for banning. Then ive seen people get away with tons of BM. Ive even thought of starting a thread about it. I dont care to be banned though, not benificial to speak your mind againts the ruling class. Dragon learnt that the hard way like many many others. Nothing to do with manners as is obvious from lurking this forum.
The OP is right though. Once someone with a higher rating than you contradicts you, you lose all credibility.
I mean if you dont listen to one of the progamers then thats your own fault but I dont need to be told that a progamer is a pro at gaming? LOL ive read alot of posts starting off with "PLZ DONT BAN ME!!!1!!! ..just silly (banned)
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On September 15 2010 05:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division. Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical.
Seems like i fall into this category. I was c- P in BW. But now im top 100 world random. I always felt really smart in these rts's but never had the mechanics to prove it. Now with MBS and shitkeying everything, i feel like my gameplay is catching up to my knowledge.
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On September 15 2010 07:43 CounterOrder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 23:34 Effect010 wrote:On August 25 2010 02:28 Dragonsven wrote:
Yet another post describing why diamond players are not good and only old school players should comment on anything. I was expecting a rule on post count by the end. You should realize this kind of elitism does not work and you will end up driving all the new posters away once the initial boost from SC2 ends.
User was temp banned for this post. why especially is he not allowed to criticize this treath? i don´t see him bm´ing anyone... This is the only thing i dislike about this forum. Bans and such are thrown around like candy. I cant count the amount of bans/warnings ive seen that are completely uncalled for. ive seen people SCARED to simply state thier opinion due to the reckless uncalled for banning. Then ive seen people get away with tons of BM. Ive even thought of starting a thread about it. I dont care to be banned though, not benificial to speak your mind againts the ruling class. Dragon learnt that the hard way like many many others. Nothing to do with manners as is obvious from lurking this forum. The OP is right though. Once someone with a higher rating than you contradicts you, you lose all credibility. I mean if you dont listen to one of the progamers then thats your own fault but I dont need to be told that a progamer is a pro at gaming? LOL ive read alot of posts starting off with "PLZ DONT BAN ME!!!1!!! ..just silly (banned)
Elitism in Teamliquid does count. With the influx of new young players, of course respected old forum members get much more clout than a random new person. I'd rather have one decent poster than 10 random crappy posters.
I've been lurking here for the past eight years, and only since Starcraft 2 have I had to jump in a couple of times to argue with young kids who are just blatantly wrong. I mean, there's a post in another thread somewhere directed at Morrow (who is one of the best players in sc2 and has over 2000 posts) "You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about". I kinda wish we had the same forum intelligence from pre-Starcraft 2.
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I think we need an updated post of this because I think its very cool, but im guessing its something like if your below 1000 Diamond ur D- 1100 D, 1200 D+ then every 50 points from there equal roughly 500 in iccup rank?
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On September 15 2010 06:12 Fake)Plants wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 15 2010 05:53 Konsume wrote:On September 15 2010 05:48 xDaunt wrote:On September 15 2010 05:38 starcraft911 wrote:
You're being too generous by saying ~1200 is B in BW. My girlfriend who was a D+/C- player in BW is 1100+ diamond. I have numerous friends who couldn't muster the skill to break into D+ who're diamond now. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get into which makes me wonder what you have to do to place in a lower division. Keep in mind that the OP was made at a time when the people who were 1200+ then are probably 1400+ now. Also, you have to account for the fact that SC2 is a lot easier mechanically than BW. Playing "smart" is much more important relative to playing "mechanically well" in SC2 than in BW. Thus, it is very possible for players who only managed to get D+ or C- in BW because of bad mechanics to rank higher in SC2 where mechanics aren't as critical. you sir, aren't playing zerg. I'd take my SC:BW mecanics back if you don't mind Queen is a pain!! Touche. :p Let me rephrase: IF YOU PLAY TERRAN OR PROTOSS, it is very possible for you to rank higher in SC2 than in BW because of the easier mechanics. This is the case for me, at least. One of the largest fights you'll have as a new BW player is against the game itself. Dragoons doing whatever the fuck they want to do, bio control, and proper mutalisk management are things that take an immense amount of practice. Turn the page to SC2 and you get a smarter, more forgiving game, especially for newer players. I think as long as you can scout actively, and respond to that information properly, then you too can become a SC2 diamond player. The time will come, though, that diamond will most likely mean something very different than platinum. Even now I see this discrepancy increasing daily.
That's how a game should be. It's absolutely retarded for a new player's biggest obstacle to be the horrible design flaws of the game itself. A RTS game should be about formulating and executing strategies in real time, not about combating mechanical shortcomings of the game engine.
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On September 15 2010 13:05 Jyxz wrote:
I think we need an updated post of this because I think its very cool, but im guessing its something like if your below 1000 Diamond ur D- 1100 D, 1200 D+ then every 50 points from there equal roughly 500 in iccup rank?
But more points means you just played more though. iccup and sc2 ladder points are not directly comparable.
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i don't understand why there must be an equivalence in ranking between sc2 and bw. does it really matter if 1000 diamond = c+ bw?
you don't hit that high by accident, a high ranking diamond will inherently have a deeper insight into the game than someone in a lower league, even if he is/was only c+ in bw.
i just don't see why a correlation is needed.
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I still think mentioning your league and points is important when starting a thread. I don't wanna be telling people how and in what fashion to put down FF when they can barely manage to remember that FF exists in this game. There's a huge skill gap between low diamond and the average casual players anyway. I don't see where the hate comes from...
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I think people try to bring iccup rankings into sc2.... since SC2's ranking is so large.
Once you a diamond your a diamond. But the difference between a 500 diamond and 1000 diamond is quite a gap. The 1000 diamond should honestly be able to "toy" with the 500 diamond.
Then from 1000 diamond to say 1400+ diamond is another huge gap. The 1400+ should with relative ease, and regularity beat the 1000 diamond. (barring cheese basically)
The iccup rankings made it easier to distinguish. A B C D. And generally most competive players would agree low diamond(500) is approximately D. Low diamond is also when you start to truly get at least a feeble grasp of the game. Timing, scouting, expanding, headgames, etc. Unless you got there by cheesing in which case you will simply keep losing to those with even a slight grasp of the game.
People want another rank possibly? Alot of gamers love that prestige of elite rank. If your a casual player you wouldnt even be on these forums. Elite'est like to be set apart. While many who are highly skilled at a certain game do not care about rank/score/avatar many do.
People should just put their league and score into their Signature. It establishes credibility. If i am going to tell you about medicine and expect to be taken seriously, i need to establish credibility, I have done research for X years, ive studied for X years, and So forth. ITS credibility.
If your 1200diamond you, in all likely hood have more credibility than a 500 gold player. Now as a longshot, maybe this gold player watch replays, reads forums, researched all about the game, and has ALOT of knowledge but just isnt good at applying it? This is possible so on forums they may be able to contribute. Sort of like coaches, are they as good as their players? heck no, but usually they have alot of prior experience or have proved themselves to be worth it.
a high diamond player doesnt have to "prove" himself when giving opinions, while someone of a lower division probably needs to.
Stating your rank gives everyone a good idea of where you come from. If i say i need help and im in gold league, they know how to respond and give you advice that you can digest and use. If a 1400 diamond player posts for help the kind of advice they are looking for is different from someone in gold league.
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SC2 ELO isn't very representative of skill in some cases.
For example, I didn't ladder for two weeks. My hidden rating stayed the same, so when I started playing again (800 pts), I was still being matched up against tough opponents(as opposed to 800 level players). I blew through my bonus pool and am now at 1k rating; however, I am still consistently being matched vs 1400+ rating players.
My rating doesn't bother me too much; however, I think it is quite silly when I lose 15 points vs someone whose ELO is 200 higher than mine.
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On September 16 2010 06:58 Siffer wrote:
My rating doesn't bother me too much; however, I think it is quite silly when I lose 15 points vs someone whose ELO is 200 higher than mine.
That's because your MMR has nothing to do with your rating/points.
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woah, this is just like a guy bragging about getting to c- with 5 pool, epic.
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EPT
