EPTThe Truth About Diamond League - Page 26
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
I dont play alot and i absolutely dont like that i have no idea whatsoever on my skilllevel compared to good players or semipros/pros. I m winning some games and i have about 1k points on the diamond level and i think i must be somewhat ok right ? And suddenly i keep loosing to the same range of players and i m down to like 800 points or so and i think god i m awful. I have no idicator about my skill or the skill of players i play against. I dont know if i m getting better or worse. Sometimes i have the feeling that i m getting worse even tho i learned and corrected some of my mistakes. The system is bad for competitive players. I m a very competitive person in everything i do and i wanna exactly know where i stand even tho i might suck at sc2  | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
I really enjoyed this post,and Your grouping is pretty much accurate. I am trying to train my friends,they learn by themselves,but some things are crucial (wall-off,proper saturation,following BOs) those things are really hard to learn by yourself if You are a newbie. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
Also, I've played several games that have made me realise how terrible Diamond players are. I played a guy ranked above me (decent win ratio too) who was surprised that I beat his mass marine strategy with banelings. He told me I was the best Zerg player he'd ever played, and that I was the first Zerg player who'd beaten this strategy. I have played many other players like this (though he was perhaps the worst) while in Diamond, and I am constantly surprised at just how bad/clueless some Diamond players are. I never post my rank on TL because I don't think it properly represents my skill level personally, nor anyone else's. As far as I can tell, I am far and above most of the players I meet at the same ranking/points as me. It's probably 1/5 games where I play someone who obviously understands the game. The rest just know 1 or 2 strong builds that players like myself aren't quite good enough to beat consistently. (not trying to talk myself up here - I'm still terrible overall - just giving my own experience) The only people who should be posting their rank are the ones sitting in the top of their region (top 200 sorta thing). Ranks are meaningless everywhere else. | ||
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redwingxviii
United States101 Posts
all the people saying "oh i am diamond and i don't even try -- tee hee" = being arrogant | ||
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redwingxviii
United States101 Posts
uh, join a tournament. who knows you might be one of the greatest players ever? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12056 Posts
One thing I always noticed about this community since I joined during Brood War, was a lot of people were just using rank as a reason for someone to not be listened too, that used to rather annoy me due to the fact that rank only means how well you play, it doesn't make a difference to how well you know the game. It's like yes, there are people who play in Tournaments that get streamed, but that doesn't nessecarily mean that they themselves currently know everything the game has to offer at this point in time, so yes you should respect what they say, but it doesn't mean because of who they are it's automatically true. Take for example the person I mentioned in the first paragraph, he was saying something along the lines of mutalisks can't beat thors, mech is impossible to beat. Yet every game I watched of his, he always went the same build and always did the same thing, never deviating to try and find a way of making mutas useful against zerg, where as Terran players from all sides of the forum were saying that thors get owned by mutas if they're just spread properly, but the top zergs never took this on until very recently and it's changed the game almost completely. Basically what I'm trying to say is, just because someone plays in tournaments doesn't mean their opinions are officially always right, yes they're more likely to be right and if they put their opinions across in a nice, calm friendly manner like Jinro sometimes does, I'm sure alot of people would respect their additions alot more. This is a double edged sword though, because the popular players also need to take in what the other forum members say and everyone should have an equal chance to be listened too, regardless of rank when it comes to theorycrafting. Both sides of the arguments need to show respect for one another. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:37 sikyon wrote: I'm boiling down your post to the premise that profesional SC players have greater insights than your regular SC player. Sounds about right. But you've forgotten 1 key thing: If a 500pt diamond player posts that some sort of strat is good and you think he's full of it because he's not Idra, well that might be true. However, to a plat player he clearly knows what he's doing relativily speaking and his insight is still valuable. People posting their division/points are not just empty boasts about where they are and why you should take them seriously. It's just information that tells you what level of play this is working for. Your post also smacks of elitism, and somewhat smells like it's trying to attack players instead of strategies. That's a bad idea. In my opinion it's never acceptable to say "oh look you're only in gold your opinion doesn't matter". It is much more appropriate to say "nope, that won't work and this is why: ..." The ladder system is, and always will be, relative. If you don't find someone impressive relative to yourself, you should just not take his advice. It will probably be useful to someone below him. People don't jump from silver to diamond by using diamond strategies all of a sudden. They do it by going gold, then plat, then diamond, whatever that entails. I don't harbor anything against saracen, I think he had good intentions. But I'm gona quote this guy again just in case someone will read it again. Stop saying people's strats are dumb. To Jaedong (in BW ofc) all your strats are dumb. If the strat is dumb to you, don't do it. And don't make fun of the guy that came up with it either. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
I'm not going to name any names, but one person in particular isn't respectful enough himself to demand respect from anyone else Understandable, but if you look at his opinions when he's actually talking strategy/balance/whatever and not BMing, they are very well thought out and obviously come from the mind of a pro. | ||
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hydezyne
United States38 Posts
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NET
United States703 Posts
The ranking system is worthless as stated by many others. For one thing I'm in support of the invite only threads mainly so I and other players actually trying to get valid information have a more solid resource to learn from. As for elitism, if they know what they're doing I could care less if they hurt feelings or not. This isn't preschool, I'm sure most of us here are adults and can maturely take constructive criticism and what not. I come to Team Liquid for a few reasons: 1) Solid information backed by statistics and very experienced players. 2) Professionalism. 3) And to expand my horizon, whether it be for StarCraft or for any other aspect of life. | ||
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
On August 25 2010 09:05 redwingxviii wrote: "i wanna exactly know where i stand even tho i might suck at sc2" uh, join a tournament. who knows you might be one of the greatest players ever? Its just my bad english. I know i m not good enough i dont have a shot to even make it to round 3 or 4 vs the range of players that regularly take part in lets say go4sc2 or so. I just wanna know if i improve . The ladder right now has a huge variance and you dont know where you stand if you look at your points compared to the whole field. | ||
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Ursadon-n-Pals
United States928 Posts
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lFrost
United States295 Posts
also there are some players who believe they are good because they perform certain types of cheese or all-in builds every single game. this is equivalent to cheesing your way to C rank in iccup (which is possible) and telling yourself you are good. i have a friend who does a double 9 rax cheese in over half of his games, because he vetoes the maps that allow him to do that, and he is currently has nearly 1200 pts and is near the top of his diamond league, yet he is a really bad player who does not know how to use hotkeys or macro properly | ||
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bodycount
Poland36 Posts
Had to be said. | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
As a ~600 pt diamond player I agree. hahaha, this guys got spunk | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
New people (myself included) should NEVER start balance discussions. And, really, we shouldn't really participate in them. New people should be helping others work through their basic mistakes and mechanics, analyzing replays for newer players, and offering our expertise to people that can benefit from our experience. To them, we are the QXCs and IdrA's of the world, for all intents and purposes. They can't really incorporate or handle the nuanced help that a top top player can give them, so for that newer or lower diamond players are sufficient. Higher level players, players with extensive experience/replays of a situation, and people who have studied lots of VODs should participate in balance discussions according to their skill and ability to contribute. Ideally balance/strategy threads should look like an intellectual forum developing or like a Liquipedia article being written from the ground up. I think this is where Saracen is going with this. I don't really agree with his tone and do feel that it is pretty dismissive of people and their contributions. Some people aren't trying to be jerks or dismiss top players. Some people are trying their damndest to contribute to the community. They don't realize their statistics are biased or their replays are old or their information is overlooking a critical weakness. The desire to help is there. It's true these players should "respect their elders" so to speak, but I definitely don't think people should be shamed or prevented from talking. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On August 25 2010 09:17 Ursadon-n-Pals wrote: That is a spot on iccup conversion. I'm tired of D ranks thinking they are amazing now since they are diamond. D is for diamond  | ||
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