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On August 25 2010 02:19 Saracen wrote:
It's all a matter of respect. I don't know, maybe you'd rather have wonderful theorycrafting sessions with random SC2 players, but I'd rather have mine with Qxc. Of course, the suggestion Qxc proposed is not going to happen because the administrators actually do care about how TL is perceived by the general public. They really want it to be accessible and friendly to players of every skill level. But that's not saying that as things are, we can't get people like Qxc to post a little more frequently by showing them a bit more respect.
What they need to do is allow posts to be ranked, and post rankings contribute to your user rating. You could have an option to not show posts below a certain threshold, and posts from highly rated users could be highlighted.
Anyway, if Blizzard can have an invite only league, why can't TL have an invite-only forum? It can be read by anyone and only posted on by people who were invited. I don't see how this would be a problem at all.
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Hopefully in the future the leagues of Bronze - Diamond are better spread out so it matches somewhat similar to ICCup thingies
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Why not have a "Pro Forum" where only featured good players (just like with the featured user streams) can start a topic. Discussion should be of a lot higher quality just because the OP would be of a fairly high quality. Free of trolls and the mods could easily hand the bans out to idiots.
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On August 25 2010 09:59 fryy wrote:
Why not have a "Pro Forum" where only featured good players (just like with the featured user streams) can start a topic. Discussion should be of a lot higher quality just because the OP would be of a fairly high quality. Free of trolls and the mods could easily hand the bans out to idiots.
Because there are better ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish than sectioning off part of the community from another part. A good example is the "quality poster" star. Another good example is liquidpedia where SC strategy is presented at the highest quality (probably on the net) with supporting evidence to back it up.
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On August 25 2010 10:03 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 09:59 fryy wrote:
Why not have a "Pro Forum" where only featured good players (just like with the featured user streams) can start a topic. Discussion should be of a lot higher quality just because the OP would be of a fairly high quality. Free of trolls and the mods could easily hand the bans out to idiots. Because there are better ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish than sectioning off part of the community from another part. A good example is the "quality poster" star.
I didn't say section it off. I said only featured players could start a topic. Everyone else can post after the OP.... but if you do post it had better be of high quality too.
*edit* I brought up the streams in my first post to kind of explain but maybe didnt go into enough depth. When i watch a stream i ALWAYS look at the featured streams first, as you know they are decent players. After that i would take a look at the non featured streams. With a "featured players topic" forum i pretty much would always go there first too - as you would expect the standard to be higher than the General forum.
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On August 25 2010 10:03 Archerofaiur wrote:
Because there are better ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish than sectioning off part of the community from another part.
I thought that was the entire fundamental point of the ranking system in SC2. There's Pro players, Diamond players, Platinum players, etc.
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I like the idea of invite-only threads.
As a 800+ Diamond player (lol had to do it) I feel like it would be good if we could have some threads where all the 800+ Diamond players can't post crap and only the pros give their opinion on where the balance of the game is and how to execute/counter some of the more viable strats.
As a Zerg player, I am struggling with things like "when is it OK to take my natural vs Terran?" it would be nice if we could maybe get some sort of strategy question and answer thing going.
I can't really ask this question in the current forum setup as I will get 20 different responses that don't necessarily reflect what is good, solid game play.
So... +1 for the invite-only thread idea.
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I just want to point out that the OP does not imply that the ladder rankings are meaningless or poorly implemented or that blizzard's ladder system is bad.
A whole lot of us are bad to mediocre mid-level diamond players. We're better than gold players. We're worse than pretty much any competitive BW player who switched over. It's a ranking that iteratively becomes more accurate the more you play.
There are over 1.2 million players ranked in 1v1. A little over 50k of them are in diamond. There are about 4k players with a current ICCUP rating of C or greater. The scale is different.
The ladder is not only a meaningful measure, but an incredibly useful tool for finding well matched opponents and learning how to beat them. Say what you want about bnet 2.0, but I'm not aware of anything prior that comes close in this regard.
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A pretty controversial post but it raises a good point. The difference between BW and SC2 forums is that nowhere in BW does anyone really say "hey you're wrong cause I'm B and you're only D" or "I'm A/B so I know what I'm talking about". Instead, it becomes pretty readily apparent because the game is developed enough to know who knows what they're talking about. SC2 we really don't have much to go on. However, the flip side is, sometimes a silver, gold or heck even bronze CAN come up with a good idea that no one's ever thought of. I guess only time will tell =)
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completely disagree.
any diamonds past 600 holds a certain level of decency. 900 diamonds often compete with with tournament players/popular players.
The difference between sub 500diamonds and 900+ diamonds is HUGE, its as big as Silver->Gold.
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As a crappy Silver player I'd love it if TL had a separate section of the SC2 strategy forum where only the inner circle of pro gamers that have proven themselves worldwide can post. I guarantee you that if enough of them participated actively to the board (and how likely this is to happen is questionable, given how much these players would rather play than talk) then the discussion would be exciting, educational and most of us would love to learn from it.
There's a reason why people watch Day[9] casts. We want to hear what someone who's demonstrated to know what he's talking about has to say about the game, the mechanics and strategies. A board for pros would feed some of that hunger too.
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I'm an average player at best and I agree with the OP 110%. Elitist Jerks have a World of Warcraft forum that usually has solid posts, but the only way they maintain that quality is that they are moderation nazi's to the extreme. There is very little moderation here and as a result your average post is going to be full of armchair theorycrafting with no basis that was probably made up on the spot.
People don't seem to understand that the average SC2 player is average... average. I think a few rules from EJ would help this board out immensily.
*The ability for people to report bad/unqualified posts. You regulate this by giving out warnings/bans to people that report posts for no reason.
*You must have 10-15 replies in various threads before you can made your own topic.
*Orginal topics are closely watched. People who make poor topics are quickly banned from posting/replying.
The report post feature makes moderation much more efficient. Rather than randomly browse the forums for trash you can look at the the list of reported posts and take immediate action. Is the post worthy of a warning/ban? Done. Did the person needlessly report the post? Warn/ban them.
Clean up the boards imo.
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What a long thread. I hope to read it all one day.
There are high ranked players that don't understand the game and low ranked players that do but cant execute. Theory-crafting is good and all and sometimes when I get stumped I browse a bit to see what I find about a situation I am struggling with but I usually get driven away by the discourse. I just watch replays and try to figure it out on my own.
The real issue is how people talk to each other. Since BW is a competitive game it quickly becomes an e-peen measuring contest when talking about the game. If someone posts something you don't agree with, why not ask about it / keep exploring it before saying "you're wrong idiot"?
Well w/e, showing my age I guess.
Hi to anyone that remembers me.
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When talking about leagues, you also have to remember blizzards recent philosophies concerning their games. Take WoW for example, they have completely reduced the level required to raid on wow to cater "casual" gamers and having been personally in a guild that attempted to go for top rankings the normal content was really very very easy and realistically a bit boring.
The same could be said about SC II, the leagues make you feel good because you are at this level. Also the gap is even bigger on other servers e.g on SEA there are people at ~800 + diamond that dont even have a semi optimal build. (10 sup, 11 rax , 12 sup to wall against T .......................... /facepalm).
Also i believe that what you have to do is instead of going "im a ~xxx point diamond", go and actually measure yourself to someone thats semi-pro and that usually kills any ego you have. It also serves as a good learning tool. knowing what you need to work on and what you're doing ok with.
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On August 25 2010 06:24 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 06:23 heyoka wrote:Believe it or not, SC1 knowledge is not required to be knowledgeable about the game. In fact, SC1 is the simplest, most kiddy pc RTS I've literally ever played. It got popular because it was accessible to all, similar to the way Halo did. This is the best thing I've ever read in the forums. Thank you Saracen, thank you so much. Two resources, pre-defined base slots, max mineral saturation, 3 races. I expect to get hated on this, but it's the truth. The game became very competitive but it's one of the simplest pc RTSes ever made. Care to disagree? User was warned for this post
no i agree man i agree.....so what pro team were you a part of again? whats that? you get raped at this game to bad to beat top people at it? oh........well what is your name on the ladder? you are atleast top 100 right? no? well...........................
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The OP is right on, im half way into one of the BS diamond leagues and i came from wow, i play random, and i never make beyond 35 workers per game. Thanks for the original post and i like QXC's limited participation thread if us lowbies can still view it.
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Yep. My 480 points mean nothing, although I already knew that >.>
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On August 25 2010 10:32 Kinmaul wrote:
I'm an average player at best and I agree with the OP 110%. Elitist Jerks have a World of Warcraft forum that usually has solid posts, but the only way they maintain that quality is that they are moderation nazi's to the extreme. There is very little moderation here and as a result your average post is going to be full of armchair theorycrafting with no basis that was probably made up on the spot.
People don't seem to understand that the average SC2 player is average... average. I think a few rules from EJ would help this board out immensily.
*The ability for people to report bad/unqualified posts. You regulate this by giving out warnings/bans to people that report posts for no reason.
*You must have 10-15 replies in various threads before you can made your own topic.
*Orginal topics are closely watched. People who make poor topics are quickly banned from posting/replying.
The report post feature makes moderation much more efficient. Rather than randomly browse the forums for trash you can look at the the list of reported posts and take immediate action. Is the post worthy of a warning/ban? Done. Did the person needlessly report the post? Warn/ban them.
Clean up the boards imo.
There is a report function already, it's at the top right of each box. However, this feature only works if people use it, so maybe it should advertised better.
The moderators actually do moderate the forums fairly rigorously, but I'm guessing the huge influx of members due to sc2 is making the job a lot harder.
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Yeah couldn't agree more.
Although I do think often there are people with pretty good game knowledge, but not that good at executing it (poor multitasking, micro, fast hands etc)
I feel like I'm one of these people. I know exactly what I should be doing, but executing it perfectly is a different story 
Thus, I feel like im DEFINITELY a mediocre diamond player, but not necessarily with poor game sense.
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This is really accurate. My friends keep doing really dumb things, and I'll ask them why, and they'll say something like, "An 800 point diamond player said so on TL!" I've been trying to convince them to think for themselves, which I think is the best way to get better
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EPT
