On August 20 2010 12:23 EliteAzn wrote:
It's kinda funny how people are ignoring the fact that Zerg players are risking being majorly supplied blocked by doing drops.

No, people have just come to terms with it and adapted, from playing BW for over a decade.

tacrats

476 Posts

August 20 2010 03:28 GMT

#42

On August 20 2010 12:23 EliteAzn wrote:
It's kinda funny how people are ignoring the fact that Zerg players are risking being majorly supplied blocked by doing drops.

To be honest, as a zerg player, thats not an issue.

If your dropping your whole army into a base, into a situation where overlords will likely die, then being supply blocked is the least of ur worries. Who the fuck sends 20 overlords full of units without making sure the coast is clear to get the drop done and pull the overlords back if need be? its not like they die in 2 hits.

[Agony]x90

United States853 Posts

August 20 2010 03:30 GMT

#43

For some reason, i feel like they gave medivacs healing and warp prisms the power field just to even their roles out against overlords. In BW, the fact that overlords were always so available made them the most usable and efficient transport in the game.

I just feel like the units that drop are the issue. Dropping zerglings and hydras could demolish a protosses entire base in BW. I feel like for some reason its just not the same when i see it in SC2.

eLiE

Canada1039 Posts

August 20 2010 03:33 GMT

#44

this transport issue bugs me early mid game. i don't like how i basically can't break through a one basing terran or protoss wall-in unless i get mutas or get banelings, and going for this upgrade early, along with the speed upgrade, means i'm getting less of those valuable units that i need to defend against their drops and harass against my open base. i think the price and/or time should be reduced.

tacrats

476 Posts

August 20 2010 03:33 GMT

#45

On August 20 2010 12:30 [Agony]x90 wrote:
For some reason, i feel like they gave medivacs healing and warp prisms the power field just to even their roles out against overlords. In BW, the fact that overlords were always so available made them the most usable and efficient transport in the game.

I just feel like the units that drop are the issue. Dropping zerglings and hydras could demolish a protosses entire base in BW. I feel like for some reason its just not the same when i see it in SC2.

toss just warps in units to stall ur units while his main army is coming back whereas sc1 u had time until his army came.

terran just sits in his base or on his ramp in sc2 so your drops are only really effective later game when his army is protecting his 3rd. plus no sensor towers

Subversion

South Africa3627 Posts

August 20 2010 03:35 GMT

#46

agree with someone above, speed needs to be 50/50 again

OhJesusWOW

United Kingdom127 Posts

August 20 2010 03:37 GMT

#47

On August 20 2010 12:28 tacrats wrote:
To be honest, as a zerg player, thats not an issue.

If your dropping your whole army into a base, into a situation where overlords will likely die, then being supply blocked is the least of ur worries. Who the fuck sends 20 overlords full of units without making sure the coast is clear to get the drop done and pull the overlords back if need be? its not like they die in 2 hits.

Yeah, if your dropping your whole army into a base...your state of mind is proof that you would never risk dropping just a few Zerg units into a base for a little harass. Not a chance. If you plan on dropping as Zerg, you're planning on taking everything out with it. And even then, you can lose supply. It doesn't have to be 20 overlords lost to hurt you, it could be 4 or 5 Overlords that set you back down to 160/170 food. If that drop didn't win, you need that 200/200 army ASAP. The time it takes to get more overlords and then finish up spawning that 30-40 other food is not okay. This kind of thing happens. Especially against Terran with all of its AA mightiness...and those god damn Vikings will follow Overlords to the edges of space.

a176

Canada6688 Posts

August 20 2010 03:40 GMT

#48

out of all the things to complain about for zerg, i think this is the least warranted. the cost of nydus was already mentioned earlier and that alone is argument enough in favor of the upgrade. of course, ovie speed is required but hey, that's only one mutalisk (or the cost of one nydus worm).

ovie can generate creep upon dropping as well, even with 3 minimum overlords, creep is spread so fast, your army gets an insane advantage.

i think really people are more concerned with the amount of effort loading up overlords versus the ez-mode of a nydus canal, and just hiding it with the excuse that the upgrade costs too much.

On August 20 2010 11:40 Saracen wrote:
Build time is just as much worth mentioning as cost.

this is very true. i think though, if you're getting ovie drop, you're doing it specifically in your mind, so you'll have the upgrade going as part of your build.

i mean seriously .. have any of you played bw?

epik640x

United States1134 Posts

August 20 2010 03:53 GMT

#49

One zerg unit can't harass like a siege tank, thor, or collosus though.

And yes it's too expensive.

comis

United States333 Posts

August 20 2010 04:03 GMT

#50

I just wish there was an upgrade to fix bad OL drop AI. I feel like P and T dropships operate fine but OL's just scurry around confused.

Otherwise OL drop is fine imo.

universalwill

United States654 Posts

August 20 2010 04:12 GMT

#51

the thing is, for 200/200 you get almost infinite dropships.

it's very annoying that it takes so long to get drop tech though, because of how much earlier T and P can get drop and abuse cliffs. maybe if overseers could carry units by default... that way you could get faster drop to deal with cliff harass but you couldn't make a ton of them and do a massive early drop because it just costs too much gas to mass overseers that early.

Jermstuddog

United States2231 Posts

August 20 2010 04:15 GMT

#52

Cut 40 seconds off ventral sacs research and everything will be fine.

We know Zerg units are broken and weak in general. But rish free shit like cliff dropping a tank should be uncounterable.

Zergs only real harass option from dropping is banelings, which are quite sad to say the least. 4 banelings != 2 lurkers.

But it is still needed for early game defense, right now Zerg is just a punching bag for 15 minutes in ZvX, and that sucks.

link0

United States1071 Posts

August 20 2010 04:41 GMT

#53

Reduce to 150/150 and call it a day.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

August 20 2010 05:01 GMT

#54

I like how people complain about prices, i'd love to see a replay of you with perfect macro, and the fact of the cost effectively being the soul reason you lost a game.

And if you made each overlord have to morph a drop function, that would probably cost more, in terms of making enough to make a doom drop usefull enough.

And lets not even go into the amount of apm/mechanics required for this. Zergs complain too much already about queen/creep tumor being too much of a toll.

DarkSeerTurbo

United States105 Posts

August 20 2010 06:22 GMT

#55

it costs too much (you need 2 upgrades: speed and drop capability) and it takes way too long (again, you need to research 2 upgrades). it's not a very viable option at the moment imo. especially since zerg has problems with survival at the moment.

DarkSeerTurbo

United States105 Posts

August 20 2010 06:25 GMT

#56

Mikilatov

United States3897 Posts

August 20 2010 06:30 GMT

#57

On August 20 2010 14:01 zomgtossrush wrote:
I like how people complain about prices, i'd love to see a replay of you with perfect macro, and the fact of the cost effectively being the soul reason you lost a game.

This.

I completely fail to imagine a scenario in which the cost of Ventral Sacs has lost a game for someone, it's fine.

ALPINA

3791 Posts

August 20 2010 06:46 GMT

#58

Speed price 100/100 is ok. because 50/50 was a no brainer - you just insta upgrade is after lair is finished. But to balance that cost increase they need to make drops 150/150.

blacktoss

United States121 Posts

August 20 2010 06:50 GMT

#59

Why is it bad that ovie speed is a no-brainer but warpgates and concussive shells are fine as no-brainers?

ALPINA

3791 Posts

August 20 2010 06:53 GMT

#60

On August 20 2010 15:50 blacktoss wrote:
Why is it bad that ovie speed is a no-brainer but warpgates and concussive shells are fine as no-brainers?

Those upgrades should cost more too, agree.