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On May 04 2011 14:44 Zeri wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 04 2011 14:36 Namu wrote:On May 04 2011 14:32 Chro wrote:
I think tyler's idea is basically EG shouldnt have said anything on the fourm about team liquid being in it or not. Let the community ask team liquid if they're in it or not, EG should either say everything, or nothing.
He gave the community half the information, and as neutral as it was, leaving out information can be seen as aggressive. If we went to war and france didnt show up to the UN meeting and the media said "France didnt accept the invite to the meeting" then there would be a HUGE negative backlash no mater the reason. Its a very subtle way to attack someone. pretty much this... incontrol is saying colbi's response was neutral or w/e, but leaving out information can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. He left out information on both sides. He didn't just post EG's "side" and leave it at that. His initial post that started the whole ball rolling was: "Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate." Is that fairly vague and absent of information? Of course, because it would've been a dick move to only post EG's side, or presumptuously post Liquid's reasoning. Yes it is fairly vague and absent of information. If I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch, he declined" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? Now. what if I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch and he declined because of unresolvable timing issues" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? actually a BIG difference. The second one is more neutral and truthful actually. and if you are john and here that story told about you in the FIRST way. would you not be offended that the second version was not told instead?
What if your friend John was using that time to get to his lady on the side he was hiding from his wife, and now I just found out? Quite frankly, "unresolvable timing issues" gives me more questions than the first question. The first question is vague to the point that speculation is meaningless. I don't think it's Colbi's job to say Teamliquid's reasoning in the least. He didn't post EG's side, he stated the facts and allowed TL to post as much or as little as they wanted.
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It was unfair to double team Tyler i think, its tough to think on the spot when you are constantly being attacked
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On May 04 2011 14:45 Grantiere wrote:
Colbi gave accurate but incomplete information. Tyler completed the information. The end.
Incontrol was far more defensive and demeaning in the thread. Idra was much more logical.
yeah and btw incontrol's 30k posts to tyler's 5k posts doesnt really mean shit because incontrol has a ton of just plain shitty posts while most of tyler's are really well thought out
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On May 04 2011 14:46 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:43 Daralii wrote:On May 04 2011 14:42 sermokala wrote:
Why does idra stick with zerg like he could do a lot better with any other race. He seems to be of the opinion that switching to P or T would automatically make him a worse player because he's not playing the "hardest" race, or would somehow devalue his accomplishments. While I don't agree with IdrA about balance discussions, he has made it clear he believes that the problem is that he wouldn't be able to compete with these races for quite some time because of the fundamental differences between them. Things like timings, things like hotkeys, even just eyeballing whether you can hold something take a while to learn during which he wouldn't be able to compete at the highest level.
My mistake, I somehow managed to forget he'd have to effectively relearn the game. I am derp. :|
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On May 04 2011 14:40 PhyreHazard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:35 spybreak wrote:
So Colbi getting flak for doing his job as a PR? LMAO The point is that TL forum is not a place to advertise, so by responding to the question by doing some PR thing (and making TL look bad in the proccess) is kinda inapropriate.
Except TL forum is a place to advertise. Why do you think any tournament that means anything is advertised on on TL? The TL forum is much bigger than you are making it sound like.
Right now TL for sc2 is what ESPN is for sports.
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Way to pronounce Lachesis wrong 
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On May 04 2011 14:46 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On May 04 2011 14:42 Glaven wrote:On May 04 2011 14:41 Namu wrote:On May 04 2011 14:39 PZPolice wrote:
Geoff completely disregarding Tyler's argument and trying to make him look like an ass. It was almost unbearable to watch. He has a history of acting childishly but this made me not want to support anything he's a part of. exactly what I thought. lost a ton of respect for incontrol... What? The fact of the matter is in control way out argued tyler. My side of the argument, and the point I was trying to make, was much more complicated and nuanced I got exactly what you were trying to say and you are 100% right.
Yea geoff is good at spinning Tylers smaller points and amplifying them up so that Tylers actual point gets muddled. debate guy vs philosophy guy.. I think it was interesting just to see how the discussion developed.
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On May 04 2011 14:47 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:46 TheTenthDoc wrote:On May 04 2011 14:43 Daralii wrote:On May 04 2011 14:42 sermokala wrote:
Why does idra stick with zerg like he could do a lot better with any other race. He seems to be of the opinion that switching to P or T would automatically make him a worse player because he's not playing the "hardest" race, or would somehow devalue his accomplishments. While I don't agree with IdrA about balance discussions, he has made it clear he believes that the problem is that he wouldn't be able to compete with these races for quite some time because of the fundamental differences between them. Things like timings, things like hotkeys, even just eyeballing whether you can hold something take a while to learn during which he wouldn't be able to compete at the highest level. My mistake, I somehow managed to forget he'd have to effectively relearn the game. I am derp. :|
MorroW went from Terran to Zerg and he's arguably more successful now as Zerg than he ever was as Terran. It's hard to explain why he can do it switching to a worse race, but Greg couldn't race switch if he REALLY wanted to.
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On May 04 2011 14:48 meep wrote:Way to pronounce Lachesis wrong
Not sponsored by Razer so fuck it ;D
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Please don't turn starcraft into politics. We want the truth!!
I guess this is how SC2 can get big. Corporate shit sucks, but we need their money for tournaments. EG operates like lobbyists with their sponsors so they have to be the way they are.
Get used to more crap like this. Liquid has to deal with the consequences of being so global.
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So this is my first post but it was really annoying to listen to Tyler not be able to make his argument because i think he is right.
Although Colbi didn't technically say anything negative about TeamLiquid, leaving out the facts that he did leads people to jump to conclusions, especially on the interwebs. I doubt this was intentional but i could see how team liquid would frown upon it.
It made it seem like teamliquid would prefer not to participate in the tournament instead of they had issues that wouldnt allow them to.
He should have said something to the effect of "we invited TeamLiquid but they were not ABLE to participate" not just that they declined (which seems like TeamLiquid just said no we dont WANT to).
I feel like saying "we invited TeamLiquid but they were not ABLE to participate" is still bare boned and professional.
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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/kBxtS.png)
tasteless in his vampire form, why so sexy?
tasteless: i didnt ask for this
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On May 04 2011 14:26 cape wrote:
Tyler has a valid point but I don't think he can articulate it well enough. I don't think JP letting this stupid discussion go on for so long helps either. Of course things are going to look worse and worse for Tyler when he has to debate against someone who sidesteps his real argument the whole time.
this. basically Incontrol and Idra get to team up and think of their own points while Tyler is constantly on the spot having to address both of theirs while making his own. Tyler had a solid point and Incontrol was really getting out of hand at the end.
To address the actual debate I like to keep it simple. I want there to be as much transparency as possible about anything that is presented to the community. The last thing I want to see influence what the community does and does not know is fucking politics. If I wanted to read "filtered" stories I'd get my starcraft news from CNN (or Fox, if you like CNN).
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Tyler, lol.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 04 2011 14:49 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:47 Daralii wrote:On May 04 2011 14:46 TheTenthDoc wrote:On May 04 2011 14:43 Daralii wrote:On May 04 2011 14:42 sermokala wrote:
Why does idra stick with zerg like he could do a lot better with any other race. He seems to be of the opinion that switching to P or T would automatically make him a worse player because he's not playing the "hardest" race, or would somehow devalue his accomplishments. While I don't agree with IdrA about balance discussions, he has made it clear he believes that the problem is that he wouldn't be able to compete with these races for quite some time because of the fundamental differences between them. Things like timings, things like hotkeys, even just eyeballing whether you can hold something take a while to learn during which he wouldn't be able to compete at the highest level. My mistake, I somehow managed to forget he'd have to effectively relearn the game. I am derp. :| MorroW went from Terran to Zerg and he's arguably more successful now as Zerg than he ever was as Terran. It's hard to explain why he can do it switching to a worse race, but Greg couldn't race switch if he REALLY wanted to.
I think IdrA doesn't want to lose out on the months it took MorroW to adapt to the different race, to be honest. I mean MorroW is successful now, but he wasn't for quite a length of time-he dropped off the radar for a while.
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On May 04 2011 14:50 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:26 cape wrote:
Tyler has a valid point but I don't think he can articulate it well enough. I don't think JP letting this stupid discussion go on for so long helps either. Of course things are going to look worse and worse for Tyler when he has to debate against someone who sidesteps his real argument the whole time. this. basically Incontrol and Idra get to team up and think of their own points while Tyler is constantly on the spot having to address both of theirs while making his own. Tyler had a solid point and Incontrol was really getting out of hand at the end. To address the actual debate I like to keep it simple. I want there to be as much transparency as possible about anything that is presented to the community. The last thing I want to see influence what the community does and does not know is fucking politics. If I wanted to read "filtered" stories I'd get my starcraft news from CNN.
I don't know what incontrol was thinking...
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51117 Posts
IdrA: Protoss!
BeSt: Yes!!
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Just found this thought it was really funny.
![[image loading]](http://filesmelt.com/dl/tasteless.png)
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I think we learned in this episode that SOTG is not a good forum for serious debate, either of balance or of forum etiquette.
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EPT
