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On May 04 2011 14:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:44 Zeri wrote:On May 04 2011 14:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 04 2011 14:36 Namu wrote:On May 04 2011 14:32 Chro wrote:
I think tyler's idea is basically EG shouldnt have said anything on the fourm about team liquid being in it or not. Let the community ask team liquid if they're in it or not, EG should either say everything, or nothing.
He gave the community half the information, and as neutral as it was, leaving out information can be seen as aggressive. If we went to war and france didnt show up to the UN meeting and the media said "France didnt accept the invite to the meeting" then there would be a HUGE negative backlash no mater the reason. Its a very subtle way to attack someone. pretty much this... incontrol is saying colbi's response was neutral or w/e, but leaving out information can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. He left out information on both sides. He didn't just post EG's "side" and leave it at that. His initial post that started the whole ball rolling was: "Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate." Is that fairly vague and absent of information? Of course, because it would've been a dick move to only post EG's side, or presumptuously post Liquid's reasoning. Yes it is fairly vague and absent of information. If I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch, he declined" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? Now. what if I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch and he declined because of unresolvable timing issues" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? actually a BIG difference. The second one is more neutral and truthful actually. and if you are john and here that story told about you in the FIRST way. would you not be offended that the second version was not told instead? What if your friend John was using that time to get to his lady on the side he was hiding from his wife, and now I just found out? Quite frankly, "unresolvable timing issues" gives me more questions than the first question. The first question is vague to the point that speculation is meaningless. I don't think it's Colbi's job to say Teamliquid's reasoning in the least. He didn't post EG's side, he stated the facts and allowed TL to post as much or as little as they wanted.
No it really doesn't. The first one is way more open to speculation and the general speculations from the first version are way more negative towards john (TL) and the second one, the speculations are way more fair about the possibilities. You can't really say that it doesn't
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These stories are great. Id have to say Tyler forgetting storm in TSL 1 against Draco was close to as bad as Idra's CC cancel tho.
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On May 04 2011 14:46 AlBundy wrote:
Wow this was a really great display of the NA scene right here. Good job guys, way to promote ESPORTS... Hint: if you do not have the mental capacity to argue, then don't argue. Otherwise you make yourselves look like fools.
Also I would like to comment about Day9 vs. Idra, in my opinion this debate was pathetic. But I'm not surprised, this is what happens when players believe they're video games developers. Anyway there's no point arguing with a guy who thinks that "Zerg is broken". So, Idra wins tournaments using a broken race, does that mean he's 10 times better than his opponents?
Get real.
Hey, Idra followers and depressed Zerg, stop thinking that Idra will revolutionize Zerg play. He's got good macro but that's it. He's far from being a genius, especially when it comes to strategy and TACTICS. But all in all I'm very sad that a guy like Idra is so popular in the starcraft scene. I believe the foreign scene would be healthier without such an immature player.
I left wow and its AWFUL community, then came to starcraft & TL. Unfortunately, I found Idra and his fanboys. People thinking that they can devise strategy and solve the game, just like they can master a Tekken 5 character or a Call of Duty automatic rifle.
This, because real professional sportsman never argue with each and get mad in public.........oh wait
I like the wow community, and i like the sc2 community, I like Idra because he's competitive, he's straight up, he's passionate and he taught me how to play macro games.
If you don't like the way this community work, you are welcome to leave like you left the wow community, I don't think anyone will miss you.
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oh it's anna....except no video!
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On May 04 2011 14:38 Enervate wrote:There are connotative meanings and denotative meanings. Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 10:17 Colbi wrote:On May 02 2011 10:11 KiNGxXx wrote:
No Liquid?
But the tournament sounds good! Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate. If you don't think this post has a deceptive connotation, knowing the information later revealed,I don't know what to say to you. I'll try to explain the connotations of that post in case you fail to realize them. It paints EG as the ones being flexible and accommodating, (inviting TL), and it paints TL as pretentious (choosing not to participate). A more reasonable thing to say would be that EG and TL were unable to arrive at an agreement upon tournament conditions. Period. No one is saying that EG's post was not necessary. Just that Tyler's subsequent response was justified.
This is really just an argument on semantics. Colbi was careless in the way he phrased his statement, and now he's a horrible deceptive person intentionally trying to make team liquid look bad so everyone can love EG instead! That makes perfect sense.
Do you really think Colbi was thinking "This statement will make TL look awful and EG look great and no one will ever know! MWAHAHAHA!" No. People who actually care for the reason why team liquid didn't participate would find out, the rest of us wouldn't care and would perceive both teams the way we always have.
If anything, Tyler is trying tho make EG look bad now, saying they are some big buisness team only interested in looking good and making money.
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On May 04 2011 14:52 Zeri wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 04 2011 14:44 Zeri wrote:On May 04 2011 14:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 04 2011 14:36 Namu wrote:On May 04 2011 14:32 Chro wrote:
I think tyler's idea is basically EG shouldnt have said anything on the fourm about team liquid being in it or not. Let the community ask team liquid if they're in it or not, EG should either say everything, or nothing.
He gave the community half the information, and as neutral as it was, leaving out information can be seen as aggressive. If we went to war and france didnt show up to the UN meeting and the media said "France didnt accept the invite to the meeting" then there would be a HUGE negative backlash no mater the reason. Its a very subtle way to attack someone. pretty much this... incontrol is saying colbi's response was neutral or w/e, but leaving out information can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. He left out information on both sides. He didn't just post EG's "side" and leave it at that. His initial post that started the whole ball rolling was: "Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate." Is that fairly vague and absent of information? Of course, because it would've been a dick move to only post EG's side, or presumptuously post Liquid's reasoning. Yes it is fairly vague and absent of information. If I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch, he declined" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? Now. what if I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch and he declined because of unresolvable timing issues" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened? actually a BIG difference. The second one is more neutral and truthful actually. and if you are john and here that story told about you in the FIRST way. would you not be offended that the second version was not told instead? What if your friend John was using that time to get to his lady on the side he was hiding from his wife, and now I just found out? Quite frankly, "unresolvable timing issues" gives me more questions than the first question. The first question is vague to the point that speculation is meaningless. I don't think it's Colbi's job to say Teamliquid's reasoning in the least. He didn't post EG's side, he stated the facts and allowed TL to post as much or as little as they wanted. No it really doesn't. The first one is way more open to speculation and the general speculations from the first version are way more negative towards john (TL) and the second one, the speculations are way more fair about the possibilities. You can't really say that it doesn't
Should Colbi give any inference as to why Liquid declined? All it does is say information that Liquid may or may not want to be given out. The only reason anybody is ok with thinking Colbi said more is because they agree with TeamLiquid's stance.
For ridiculousness's sake, let's say they decided not to participate because all of their members who were in Korea caught the clap from a dirty broad. Is Colbi supposed to say they can't attend due to medical problems? To illness? Where do you draw the line? The best place to draw the line is at the very start and post nothing that leads to inferences.
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On May 04 2011 14:00 blade55555 wrote:
he wants a way too be able too scout and be able too react in a decent time or a build that makes you safe vs all. In bw if terran did that marine/medic push and you had 2 sunkens down you could morph them as soon as they move out once you see it, and they will finish in time. If you see something coming you should be able too prepare in a decent time and not do it blindly.
But the Z player would have had to prepare by putting colonies in the right spot to be able to morph them. If you just made spines build in 30s flat then IdrA can do absolutely nothing but drone, then throw up 3 spine crawlers as soon as the T moves out, with no other preparation.
You couldn't see the T player start moving out, and only then start to put buildings in the right spot to get sunkens and expect it to happen in time. They are fundamentally different in the way that they work compared to spine crawlers. You also can't then reposition them all game long to make them useful later.
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Where is this VOD of Anna playing BW???
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Aww she's afraid of being a noob, so adorable :D
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On May 04 2011 14:52 Azarkon wrote:
I think we learned in this episode that SOTG is not a good forum for serious debate, either of balance or of forum etiquette.
I disagree, I thought this episode of SOTG was one of the best so far.
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I think I'm officially jumping on the hate incontrol bandwagon. I 1. used to debate, as did he and 2. I'm a sales associate. I know how to manipulate people's words to make them sound silly, while making your own point yourself. For him to use his tactics on another pro gamer is pretty disgusting. Everything about him and his gf really just seem corny. I can see them sitting at dinner bming every other pro gamer and "friend" they have then putting on their masks as they go online. Tyler had some good points, and incontrol just came and picked up a few points while leaving out others and bashed him. Also, the way he treats Idra (arguably the best foreigner out there) when he's attempting to make logical points on what he sees as op is extremely frustrating. Instead of giving him solutions, he immediately just shuts him down.
All in all, most people probably cant even see through him. But for some of us, we can see him as a troll who thinks he's above every other pro gamer, and just plays along to gain power.
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Incontrol said there was a vod, then he got interrupted and never said where to find it!
Someone here must know where it is?
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when the stream goes offline. Tyler better snap a few necks.. Im with you brother!!! Go Tyler!
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On May 04 2011 14:57 elmizzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:52 Azarkon wrote:
I think we learned in this episode that SOTG is not a good forum for serious debate, either of balance or of forum etiquette. I disagree, I thought this episode of SOTG was one of the best so far.
I think they need to plan these debates ahead of time as many weren't really prepared for them.
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On May 04 2011 14:55 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:38 Enervate wrote:There are connotative meanings and denotative meanings. On May 02 2011 10:17 Colbi wrote:On May 02 2011 10:11 KiNGxXx wrote:
No Liquid?
But the tournament sounds good! Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate. If you don't think this post has a deceptive connotation, knowing the information later revealed,I don't know what to say to you. I'll try to explain the connotations of that post in case you fail to realize them. It paints EG as the ones being flexible and accommodating, (inviting TL), and it paints TL as pretentious (choosing not to participate). A more reasonable thing to say would be that EG and TL were unable to arrive at an agreement upon tournament conditions. Period. No one is saying that EG's post was not necessary. Just that Tyler's subsequent response was justified. This is really just an argument on semantics. Colbi was careless in the way he phrased his statement, and now he's a horrible deceptive person intentionally trying to make team liquid look bad so everyone can love EG instead! That makes perfect sense. Do you really think Colbi was thinking "This statement will make TL look awful and EG look great and no one will ever know! MWAHAHAHA!" No. People who actually care for the reason why team liquid didn't participate would find out, the rest of us wouldn't care and would perceive both teams the way we always have. If anything, Tyler is trying tho make EG look bad now, saying they are some big buisness team only interested in looking good and making money.
No one is calling colbi a horrible deceptive person.. it's just that the way he explained the situation was wrong. Maybe it's different from you but saying "Liquid chose not to participate after being invited" as King said, leaves a lot to be inferred from the statement... I feel like saying Liquid was unable to participate due to logistical issues, or even just saying unable to participate instead of chose not to participate is a much better statement.
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Please tell me someone will make a .gif of Tasteless winking at us at the end!
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On May 04 2011 14:55 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 14:38 Enervate wrote:There are connotative meanings and denotative meanings. On May 02 2011 10:17 Colbi wrote:On May 02 2011 10:11 KiNGxXx wrote:
No Liquid?
But the tournament sounds good! Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate. If you don't think this post has a deceptive connotation, knowing the information later revealed,I don't know what to say to you. I'll try to explain the connotations of that post in case you fail to realize them. It paints EG as the ones being flexible and accommodating, (inviting TL), and it paints TL as pretentious (choosing not to participate). A more reasonable thing to say would be that EG and TL were unable to arrive at an agreement upon tournament conditions. Period. No one is saying that EG's post was not necessary. Just that Tyler's subsequent response was justified. This is really just an argument on semantics. Colbi was careless in the way he phrased his statement, and now he's a horrible deceptive person intentionally trying to make team liquid look bad so everyone can love EG instead! That makes perfect sense. Do you really think Colbi was thinking "This statement will make TL look awful and EG look great and no one will ever know! MWAHAHAHA!" No. People who actually care for the reason why team liquid didn't participate would find out, the rest of us wouldn't care and would perceive both teams the way we always have. If anything, Tyler is trying tho make EG look bad now, saying they are some big buisness team only interested in looking good and making money.
No one is saying he did it intentionally to make Liquid look bad, but what he did definitely didn't explain the full story and left a bad image on Liquid, which they HAD to come in and clear things up.
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Awesome show and I'm so glad that we hit 20k!
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EPT
