Great show. Please have the Machine on more often! He didn't get to speak too much this time but I really like when he does get the chance. He seems very relaxed and laid back but he still voices his opinion. He's a great addition IMO.
Edit:
On May 04 2011 14:59 On_Slaught wrote: Did everybody see Tasteless with the eye wink as JP said "and we're out?"
Epicccc..
Well obviously... who else would we be staring at?
On May 04 2011 14:58 ronpaul012 wrote: I think I'm officially jumping on the hate incontrol bandwagon. I 1. used to debate, as did he and 2. I'm a sales associate. I know how to manipulate people's words to make them sound silly, while making your own point yourself. For him to use his tactics on another pro gamer is pretty disgusting. Everything about him and his gf really just seem corny. I can see them sitting at dinner bming every other pro gamer and "friend" they have then putting on their masks as they go online. Tyler had some good points, and incontrol just came and picked up a few points while leaving out others and bashed him. Also, the way he treats Idra (arguably the best foreigner out there) when he's attempting to make logical points on what he sees as op is extremely frustrating. Instead of giving him solutions, he immediately just shuts him down.
All in all, most people probably cant even see through him. But for some of us, we can see him as a troll who thinks he's above every other pro gamer, and just plays along to gain power.
No need to jump on any hate bandwagons, they're just two very passionate guys talking about their hobby, Tyler just want's what's fair for his teams players and incontrol just want's whats a smoothly run tournament, they're dudes, testosterone gets in the way but I don't think they want hate bandwagons.
I 100% agree with Tyler on his debate over fake persona on the forums to create a professional image for yourself.(And it was funny that the person who's done a complete turn around in this degree was the one to call him out/shut him down with some cliche debate tactics)
But nah let's have everyone turn into mindless hand shaking GG zombies.
sometimes its really hard to like geoff. the way he handled that was wrong. the wrongest part was to use words like "motherfucker" in a serious discussion as a face of a league or a team. it doenst matter if they are bros its just wrong...
On May 04 2011 14:32 Chro wrote: I think tyler's idea is basically EG shouldnt have said anything on the fourm about team liquid being in it or not. Let the community ask team liquid if they're in it or not, EG should either say everything, or nothing.
He gave the community half the information, and as neutral as it was, leaving out information can be seen as aggressive. If we went to war and france didnt show up to the UN meeting and the media said "France didnt accept the invite to the meeting" then there would be a HUGE negative backlash no mater the reason. Its a very subtle way to attack someone.
pretty much this... incontrol is saying colbi's response was neutral or w/e, but leaving out information can be interpreted in a lot of different ways.
He left out information on both sides. He didn't just post EG's "side" and leave it at that. His initial post that started the whole ball rolling was: "Liquid was invited, but chose not to participate."
Is that fairly vague and absent of information? Of course, because it would've been a dick move to only post EG's side, or presumptuously post Liquid's reasoning.
Yes it is fairly vague and absent of information. If I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch, he declined" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened?
Now. what if I said "i invited a man named john to eat lunch and he declined because of unresolvable timing issues" what are your immediate inferences? what do you think happened?
actually a BIG difference. The second one is more neutral and truthful actually. and if you are john and here that story told about you in the FIRST way. would you not be offended that the second version was not told instead?
What if your friend John was using that time to get to his lady on the side he was hiding from his wife, and now I just found out? Quite frankly, "unresolvable timing issues" gives me more questions than the first question. The first question is vague to the point that speculation is meaningless. I don't think it's Colbi's job to say Teamliquid's reasoning in the least. He didn't post EG's side, he stated the facts and allowed TL to post as much or as little as they wanted.
No it really doesn't. The first one is way more open to speculation and the general speculations from the first version are way more negative towards john (TL) and the second one, the speculations are way more fair about the possibilities. You can't really say that it doesn't
Should Colbi give any inference as to why Liquid declined? All it does is say information that Liquid may or may not want to be given out. The only reason anybody is ok with thinking Colbi said more is because they agree with TeamLiquid's stance.
For ridiculousness's sake, let's say they decided not to participate because all of their members who were in Korea caught the clap from a dirty broad. Is Colbi supposed to say they can't attend due to medical problems? To illness? Where do you draw the line? The best place to draw the line is at the very start and post nothing that leads to inferences.
He should give inferences to the nature of the declination. A statement like the second one I made gives enough inference to not associate blame more on one party than the other. Whereas the first one does not. Thats it. Thats all there is.
On May 04 2011 14:46 AlBundy wrote: Wow this was a really great display of the NA scene right here. Good job guys, way to promote ESPORTS... Hint: if you do not have the mental capacity to argue, then don't argue. Otherwise you make yourselves look like fools.
Also I would like to comment about Day9 vs. Idra, in my opinion this debate was pathetic. But I'm not surprised, this is what happens when players believe they're video games developers. Anyway there's no point arguing with a guy who thinks that "Zerg is broken". So, Idra wins tournaments using a broken race, does that mean he's 10 times better than his opponents? Get real.
Hey, Idra followers and depressed Zerg, stop thinking that Idra will revolutionize Zerg play. He's got good macro but that's it. He's far from being a genius, especially when it comes to strategy and TACTICS. But all in all I'm very sad that a guy like Idra is so popular in the starcraft scene. I believe the foreign scene would be healthier without such an immature player.
I left wow and its AWFUL community, then came to starcraft & TL. Unfortunately, I found Idra and his fanboys. People thinking that they can devise strategy and solve the game, just like they can master a Tekken 5 character or a Call of Duty automatic rifle.
This, because real professional sportsman never argue with each and get mad in public.........oh wait
I like the wow community, and i like the sc2 community, I like Idra because he's competitive, he's straight up, he's passionate and he taught me how to play macro games.
If you don't like the way this community work, you are welcome to leave like you left the wow community, I don't think anyone will miss you.
Cobli has no business divulging why liquid declined. You do not speak for another team. imagine if you as a player had somebody else telling others why you made your decisions. Wouldn't it piss you off if somebody was speaking for you?
It's the same principle here. colbi said what happened, nothing more nothing less. Just because Tyler thinks Colbi should go out of his way to make TL look golden, doesn't mean he should. had he done that, he would be speaking for TL, and TL might be pissed that somebody else is telling everybody else their opinion in their place.
On May 04 2011 15:01 CEPEHDREI wrote: sometimes its hard to really like geoff. the way he handled that was wrong. the wrongest part was to use words like "motherfucker" in a serious discussion as a face of a league or a team. it doenst matter if they are bros its just wrong...
I agree 100% I LOVE geoff. I really do. theres no reason for him to get so heated and defensive.
On May 04 2011 14:46 AlBundy wrote: Wow this was a really great display of the NA scene right here. Good job guys, way to promote ESPORTS... Hint: if you do not have the mental capacity to argue, then don't argue. Otherwise you make yourselves look like fools.
Also I would like to comment about Day9 vs. Idra, in my opinion this debate was pathetic. But I'm not surprised, this is what happens when players believe they're video games developers. Anyway there's no point arguing with a guy who thinks that "Zerg is broken". So, Idra wins tournaments using a broken race, does that mean he's 10 times better than his opponents? Get real.
Hey, Idra followers and depressed Zerg, stop thinking that Idra will revolutionize Zerg play. He's got good macro but that's it. He's far from being a genius, especially when it comes to strategy and TACTICS. But all in all I'm very sad that a guy like Idra is so popular in the starcraft scene. I believe the foreign scene would be healthier without such an immature player.
I left wow and its AWFUL community, then came to starcraft & TL. Unfortunately, I found Idra and his fanboys. People thinking that they can devise strategy and solve the game, just like they can master a Tekken 5 character or a Call of Duty automatic rifle.
You're definitely improving the community by leaps and bounds yourself by generalizing and hating on an entire continent based on a few people. Great job, keep it up.
On May 04 2011 14:58 ronpaul012 wrote: I think I'm officially jumping on the hate incontrol bandwagon. I 1. used to debate, as did he and 2. I'm a sales associate. I know how to manipulate people's words to make them sound silly, while making your own point yourself. For him to use his tactics on another pro gamer is pretty disgusting. Everything about him and his gf really just seem corny. I can see them sitting at dinner bming every other pro gamer and "friend" they have then putting on their masks as they go online. Tyler had some good points, and incontrol just came and picked up a few points while leaving out others and bashed him. Also, the way he treats Idra (arguably the best foreigner out there) when he's attempting to make logical points on what he sees as op is extremely frustrating. Instead of giving him solutions, he immediately just shuts him down.
All in all, most people probably cant even see through him. But for some of us, we can see him as a troll who thinks he's above every other pro gamer, and just plays along to gain power.
No need to jump on any hate bandwagons, they're just two very passionate guys talking about their hobby, Tyler just want's what's fair for his teams players and incontrol just want's whats a smoothly run tournament, they're dudes, testosterone gets in the way but I don't think they want hate bandwagons.
it wasn't just about the talk, it's just the way incontrol handled it and how he treated tyler was so disgusting
On May 04 2011 14:35 spybreak wrote: So Colbi getting flak for doing his job as a PR? LMAO
The point is that TL forum is not a place to advertise, so by responding to the question by doing some PR thing (and making TL look bad in the proccess) is kinda inapropriate.
Except TL forum is a place to advertise. Why do you think any tournament that means anything is advertised on on TL? The TL forum is much bigger than you are making it sound like.
Right now TL for sc2 is what ESPN is for sports.
Thats just annoncing your tournament and stuff. Maybe I didn't word this right but what I meant is you don't come in here to do business.
On May 04 2011 14:58 ronpaul012 wrote: I think I'm officially jumping on the hate incontrol bandwagon. I 1. used to debate, as did he and 2. I'm a sales associate. I know how to manipulate people's words to make them sound silly, while making your own point yourself. For him to use his tactics on another pro gamer is pretty disgusting. Everything about him and his gf really just seem corny. I can see them sitting at dinner bming every other pro gamer and "friend" they have then putting on their masks as they go online. Tyler had some good points, and incontrol just came and picked up a few points while leaving out others and bashed him. Also, the way he treats Idra (arguably the best foreigner out there) when he's attempting to make logical points on what he sees as op is extremely frustrating. Instead of giving him solutions, he immediately just shuts him down.
All in all, most people probably cant even see through him. But for some of us, we can see him as a troll who thinks he's above every other pro gamer, and just plays along to gain power.
As someone who was on Tyler's side of that argument, this is a terrible, haterade fueled post. Look. Incontrol is part of EG, and he used his skills to make EG look good. I don't see how you can blame him for that.
Agreed, that was a terrible post even tho i agree with Tyler.
Using debate tactics is quite a natural instinct if you are/were a debater for a long time.
Is he intentional? No.
And he shuts down Idra? He should, because although Idra has some really good points, he probably repeated them so long on forum/podcast or IRL, that Incontrol got really bored of those lines.