EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 910
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cooked
China1238 Posts
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Fighter
Korea (South)1531 Posts
So yeah, I see where Tyler's coming from, but I feel he's being a bit defensive and sensing ill intent where there was none. | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
i really don't understand why tyler can't understand that he messed up and just admit it. especially when hotbid has the opposite opinion. | ||
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Darclite
United States1021 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:10 VanGarde wrote: On the little rant I really have to stress that I feel that the message Day9 tried to bring fourth is something that is severely missing right now. I am not sure he got it across as well as he could had but the bottom line of his argument is that yeah you can keep picking individual situations and scenarios and argue that one race is not favored in said scenario. But it is really hard without lots of data to say that this is an imbalance or not and that the reason it is not useful to discuss imbalance all the time is that discussing it over and over is not going to make anything any better. And the whole "balance" mentality that has cursed sc2 since the beta I feel is to a large part IdrA's doing. There definitely is a huge problem in sc2 where a massive part of the community is so caught up on balance, you can't watch a stream or a tournament anymore without the comments being all about "<insert name of player who won who plays race x> won, thus <race x> is op." Then that player loses in the next game and the comments are "lol yeah, <race x> just lost so I wonder which race is really op". This mentality is partly spawned I think from the larger community, this is what the general consensus is when this is discussed that it is a result of the game being young, and a lot of people coming over from wow or other games where balance discussions were much more core. But I also feel that one HUGE factor that no one really mentions is that the whole op thing really took off because Artosis and IdrA, two major personalities on the scene and two very visible and vocal personalities began the massive zerg is underpowered crusade. I won't argue that they were not right or anything like that, there has always been balance issues. But IdrA and not so much Artosis anymore but previously are very much fueling or legitimizing the idea that you should always go to balance just because they are so vocal about it. They are dumbing down the community by pushing this kind of thinking. To complain about balance issues is one thing but when IdrA pretty much constantly declares that every player in the world that ever wins anything but is not playing zerg is essentially a bad player who did not deserve their win, and when IdrA goes on his rants about how he basically can't win against protoss or whatever. On their level it might be legitimate concerns but the way that those concerns are brought fourth are the seeds that raise a terrible sc2 community where people who lose even in masters league go to balance before anything else to justify their loss. Perfectly said. The numbers don't support any major imbalances, especially not the idea that protoss is OP. Idra's mentality of every zerg player being inherently better is ridiculous. The smartest thing said in the argument was Day9's point that the only reliable measure of skill is the ability to win. I try to like Idra, but when he says that every win is due to his incredible skill and knowledge of the game, and every loss is due to imbalance makes me dislike him. His words are lowering the community's SC IQ by 10 points. Isn't it nice when a player like Spanishiwa or Sheth (or Bio on I think the NA server) try to develop new methods instead of just bitch and moan? And if you are bashing Day9, just never play starcraft again. You don't deserve it. That man has a legacy in brood war, and more importantly, has done more for E-sports in the west than anyone else. Not fanboyism, more of an obsession with the game itself, and the rationale that improving your play is more important that qqing, and he is the only major figure that puts forth that idea consistently. I loved when Incontrol pointed out that Idra thought Terran was weak in BW. Could it be possible that maybe Idra is just upset about losing or struggling in a matchup and trying to justify it rather than accepting it!?!? And let's say Kiwikaki won IPL. That would be all you would hear about for three weeks, because Idra would say he should've won because he's better, and then all zergs would think that they are better than all protosses. But Idra won. And suddenly the meaning changes. Now Idra won because he's so amazing and brilliant and really deserved to beat that noob. Yeah, that makes sense... There's a problem here. | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
Tyler's point is that you don't come to a forum, which is not an advertising forum, but a community, and act like an advertiser. If the standard is that TeamLiquid is to NOT be a community forum, but instead be a forum for advertisers to spew their bullshit PR speak, then we need to get that memo out. Geoff being a real jerk here. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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subtset
United States23 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
I have it on mute, tell me when they move on | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:25 Zythian wrote: Tasteless is bored, lol Aye, such a shame that we get Tasteless in on what is the most serious and least entertaining SotG in.... ever? The balance discussion is one thing, but this is just tooo far. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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cape
United States142 Posts
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trollparty
Australia74 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:25 nekuodah wrote: Jp for god sake you have tasteless there, use him you got them two every week and they are argueing about boring shit for most people now, it was fun at first but its gone in 50 circles, end it. agreed he should have ended it after their initial statements, this whole discussion is so ridiculous | ||
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blackhydra866
United States20 Posts
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drox22
129 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:21 Mailing wrote: Terran and protoss can scout all-ins. If a zerg makes 25 zerglings and gets early gas, a terran can see that with a SCV and infer a bane bust is coming, and make a wall. A protoss can make an extra sentry and FF. If a zerg sees 15 marines and 20 scv charge out of a terrans base, and just made a round of drones, there is almost nothing they can do, unless they BLINDLY already built 3 spines or a bane nest. If they do this blind safety practice, and the terran does NOT all in, they are BEHIND in econ. so you are attacking 1 scv with 25 zerglings? Why not try to hide the zerglings to that the terran doesnt get any information? This is an essential problem with most zerg players, you keep your zerglings clumped and kill 1 scv with 25 zerglings and then go "WHY IS IT POSSIBLE THAT 1 SCV can scout 25 zerglings" answer: because you are stupid. And if you properly control the wathc towers with your zerglings I doubt a terran will ever get an scv to your base and if he uses a scan hes behind economically. All 3 races have the same problem, it's just that for some reason zerg players LOVE to qq and seriously the win rate in all server is pretty balanced, zerg even has a higher win rate than terran on most servers overall, I'm sick and tired of this zerg imbalance crying, just learn to play the game and use your brain and stop crying... or switch races. | ||
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
Day9 didn't really argue it well. | ||
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