EPThttp://blip.tv/file/get/ItmeJP-Starcraft2StateOfTheGameEP34611.mp3
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 760
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Mumblee
Canada256 Posts
http://blip.tv/file/get/ItmeJP-Starcraft2StateOfTheGameEP34611.mp3 | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 13 2011 21:10 The KY wrote: Appeal to accomplishment, where an assertion is deemed true or false based on the accomplishments of the proposer, is a logical fallacy. In other words, it's stupid and wrong and people should stop saying it unless they want to look stupid and be wrong. EDIT: Conveniently Goeff goes into this at the start of the show, in regards to Nony specifically but it applies to all of them; 'It's a shame, and it's a blessing, that this show, we're so accessible. Like when Tyler makes a comment about MC or protoss or just gameplay in general, you can track him down. You can say something that he will see, you can tell him your thoughts. And that's not how the NFL is, that's not how ESPN is, you can't track one of those guys down and say 'Hey, I thought you were a total schmuck for the way you talked about *sports guys name* the other day, he's the best quarterback ever, who are you.' And er, I think that's too bad because Tyler doesn't just say 'MC is bad' and then we all chuckle and we move on, he actually explains the build, talks about the circumstances, and gets into the game at a level that people pay hundreds of dollars for coaching to hear, and he's sharing that knowledge for free and he's giving analysis that people should be...doing drastic things to get that information.' Get some. That's exactly why we don't listen to Chomsky's point of view on politic just because he made an awesome theory on linguistic and the acquisition of language... Ho wait. What's funny is that Geoff, Tyler are always bashing on IdrA's whine about protoss, but they are both protoss with relativ sucess, especially Geoff, despite being more or less one of the most busy player out there with NASL and shit. If the game were balanced, with his coaching session, the NASL, a girlfriend, he should disappearing from the scene as a pro player. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
And by pro players, i mean reasonable ones, not Idra ofc. Yes Idra is whining a bit too much about zerg current state, but there's no zergs to contradict him. Only protoss do this, most of the time with stupid idea like Use nydus more, etc | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On April 13 2011 21:52 WhiteDog wrote: That's exactly why we don't listen to Chomsky's point of view on politic just because he made an awesome theory on linguistic and the acquisition of language... Ho wait. What's funny is that Geoff, Tyler are always bashing on IdrA's whine about protoss, but they are both protoss with relativ sucess, especially Geoff, despite being more or less one of the most busy player out there with NASL and shit. If the game were balanced, with his coaching session, the NASL, a girlfriend, he should disappearing from the scene as a pro player. what's "exactly why"? you actually gave no reason for your first sentence. just a statement. good job. your whole logic in the 2nd paragraph makes no sense at all. just because the guy is busy and has a lot of things on his plate means he shouldn't be competitive? because he IS competitive means the game is actually imbalanced? WHAT? let me drop this concept on you... maybe some people like geoff are just HARD WORKING and ORGANIZE their time. note how he streams his practices on most nights, and probably trains a lot more without streaming? jesus. why do you pretend you know the ins and outs of someone's life when you actually have no clue? likely none of us here knows just how much time these pros devote to the game, so why can't you let their results speak for it rather than blaming the game? gotta hate when popularity invites the stupidity of the masses. these guys are trying to dish out quality free content on a weekly basis, and for some reason after every episode some schmoe finds things to complain about and then 20 slack jawed yokels jump on to post idiotic pieces of garbage like the above poster. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10761 Posts
I mean... Is anyone still seriously saying: "use more nydus worm" to solve anything? | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
There are quite a few zerg players who say that, yes we're having a hard time right now, but every option isn't exhausted yet. It also seems like most zerg gamers were terran pros in brood war, and terran could have a stupidly strong maxed army with tanks and mines and whatnot, whereas the other races had to work around it. I think the zergs in sc2 are expecting infested siege tanks and vultures to pop out of the sky so they can turtle up hard core and go death ball style, but that's never been how you play the race. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:03 Velr wrote: Use Nydus Worm is a running gag since the Roach nerf after the Beta? :D. I mean... Is anyone still seriously saying: "use more nydus worm" to solve anything? Hey, "just go mech" was/is almost as much of a gag. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:06 Euronyme wrote: The only reason people even think zerg is imbalanced is because like 3 zerg progamers are publicly complaining about it, in basically every interview they're in. There are quite a few zerg players who say that, yes we're having a hard time right now, but every option isn't exhausted yet. It also seems like most zerg gamers were terran pros in brood war, and terran could have a stupidly strong maxed army with tanks and mines and whatnot, whereas the other races had to work around it. I think the zergs in sc2 are expecting infested siege tanks and vultures to pop out of the sky so they can turtle up hard core and go death ball style, but that's never been how you play the race. Please list the zergs who are saying that and it's quite a few more than 3 zerg progamers who are complaining (nestea,july,dimaga,morrow,idra,lalush off the top of my head) Anyway, I think they [sotg cast] reiterated their position on balance better this week | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
That's exactly why we don't listen to Chomsky's point of view on politic just because he made an awesome theory on linguistic and the acquisition of language... Ho wait. ..what the fuck? People listen to Chomsky's opinion because of it's content. If he critisizes, say, the President of the United States, no one says 'hey Chomsky when's the last time you were the head of a major industrial power?'. especially Geoff, despite being more or less one of the most busy player out there with NASL and shit. If the game were balanced, with his coaching session, the NASL, a girlfriend, he should disappearing from the scene as a pro player. As fush correctly pointed out, that makes no sense. I don't even need to elaborate, logically it simply does not follow. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:02 fush wrote: what's "exactly why"? you actually gave no reason for your first sentence. just a statement. good job. your whole logic in the 2nd paragraph makes no sense at all. just because the guy is busy and has a lot of things on his plate means he shouldn't be competitive? because he IS competitive means the game is actually imbalanced? WHAT? let me drop this concept on you... maybe some people like geoff are just HARD WORKING and ORGANIZE their time. note how he streams his practices on most nights, and probably trains a lot more without streaming? jesus. why do you pretend you know the ins and outs of someone's life when you actually have no clue? likely none of us here knows just how much time these pros devote to the game, so why can't you let their results speak for it rather than blaming the game? gotta hate when popularity invites the stupidity of the masses. these guys are trying to dish out quality free content on a weekly basis, and for some reason after every episode some schmoe finds things to complain about and then 20 slack jawed yokels jump on to post idiotic pieces of garbage like the above poster. And pro zerg player, who give 100% to SC2, are not HARD WORKING and ORGANIZE ? lol I was basically saying that yes, we listen to chomsky point of view on politic at first because he made decisiv theory on linguistic. We are in fact listening at Tyler and Geoff because they have a history, they are known to be really interesting players, with great skill and such. So saying "it's not because they don't have result that they should not be listened" is funny. Geoff himself said some time ago that what Day9 says is often outdated because he doesn't have the time to play. Tyler is often flamed because he does not give his best to SC2, and actually played wow for a long time. Geoff is a caster, almost married, coaching big guy. Day9/Tyler/Geoff's points of view are interesting, but stop implying like everything they say is like the word of god directly appearing on the fucking bible: they are wrong about ZvP balance, and all this thing about seeking new doors is getting old. I am in NO WAY disrespecting them for saying that. ..what the fuck? People listen to Chomsky's opinion because of it's content. If he critisizes, say, the President of the United States, no one says 'hey Chomsky when's the last time you were the head of a major industrial power?'. Art is signature, you would never even know about chomsky if he were not a decisiv linguist. There are a lot of guy outthere who constantly said a lot of interesting things about the politic and no one ever heard of them because it's NOT the content that makes someone famous. Get real. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:09 syllogism wrote: e: quote isn't edit Add-in: morrow, sen, moonglade, dimaga (from gsl world championship kelly's house interview) Add-in: darkforce, lalush, ret, haypro, mardow Add-in: Artosis, idra | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10761 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:07 TheTenthDoc wrote: Hey, "just go mech" was/is almost as much of a gag. It's almost like: "Just go Colossi"... Oh, wait :D | ||
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djcube
United States985 Posts
On April 13 2011 21:37 joheinous wrote: wtf does tyler do all day  ? is he working on something else than sc2? He doesn't play sc2 and doesn't watch the premier tournaments so what does a sc2 pro do exactly? I'm not ripping on him btw just wondering what he does.Well first of all he's married... and I was always under the impression that he had a real job that wasn't sc2-related. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:10 WhiteDog wrote: And pro zerg player, who give 100% to SC2, are not HARD WORKING and ORGANIZE ? lol I was basically saying that yes, we listen to chomsky point of view on politic at first because he made decisiv theory on linguistic. We are in fact listening at Tyler and Geoff because they have a history, they are known to be really interesting players, with great skill and such. So saying "it's not because they don't have result that they should not be listened" is funny. Geoff himself said some time ago that what Day9 says is often outdated because he doesn't have the time to play. Tyler is often flamed because he does not give his best to SC2, and actually played wow for a long time. Geoff is a caster, almost married, coaching big guy. Day9/Tyler/Geoff's points of view are interesting, but stop implying like everything they say is like the word of god directly appearing on the fucking bible: they are wrong about ZvP balance, and all this thing about seeking new doors is getting old. I am in NO WAY disrespecting them for saying that. no one said pro zergs aren't giving it their all. strategies take time to develop. how long had it been since the release of sc1 for bisu to come out with his pvz corsairs? how long til flash came out with the flash build? give it some time is all day9, tyler, and geoff have been saying. you can't cry imba before you've tried to open all the doors (as per tyler's analogy) tyler and geoff have a "history"? geoff came 4th in MLG 2 weeks ago. tyler talks and analyses this game like no other, if you actually took time off looking for things to complain about and listened to the show. the whole issue with your argument is that you think just because they appear busy or distracted means they don't put in the hours into not just practicing, but thinking about the game. and because they're successful despite your misinformed perception of them not practicing enough, you argue that the game is imbalanced? no... still doesn't make sense to me. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:23 fush wrote: no one said pro zergs aren't giving it their all. strategies take time to develop. how long had it been since the release of sc1 for bisu to come out with his pvz corsairs? how long til flash came out with the flash build? give it some time is all day9, tyler, and geoff have been saying. you can't cry imba before you've tried to open all the doors (as per tyler's analogy) tyler and geoff have a "history"? geoff came 4th in MLG 2 weeks ago. tyler talks and analyses this game like no other, if you actually took time off looking for things to complain about and listened to the show. the whole issue with your argument is that you think just because they appear busy or distracted means they don't put in the hours into not just practicing, but thinking about the game. and because they're successful despite your misinformed perception of them not practicing enough, you argue that the game is imbalanced? no... still doesn't make sense to me. SC1 & SC2 are not the same game, not in the same scene. SC1 at the beginning was a bunch of amateur / loosers (I was one) playing for good fun. Some, more talented at the game, started to get better, improve their mechanics and build strategies. 10 years of SC1 is not just developping the meta game of SC1, it's also more or less developping the e-sport scene where SC2 appeared. When I mean history, I'm not meaning they are dynosaures, just that they were the best at some point, but they are not now, and they are not at IdrA's level (well tyler is, but he is actually playing like protoss should be played, non abusive, and because of that he is way behind what he sould). | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
Just gonna use WoW as an example here. When you come from a WoW background, you're used to people screaming OP, even the most well respected members of the community will whine about something, and Blizzard will nerf things every month so nobody is really OP for very long. So when you come from that background, as I suspect quite a few people do, you aren't used to the game sort of developing for itself, you expect someone to fix it for you (Blizzard). Many people here did not play sc1, they dont know anything about it, and therefore they cannot understand the arguments used by day9/tyler etc. What i'm trying to say, is that whining about balance is a completely normal thing to do in other games, and it has carried over to Starcraft now, as well as the mentality that someone will fix it for you as long as you complain enough. The only problem is that Starcraft isnt anything like CoD or WoW or whatever other game out there. It is far more complex, and i hope that people will learn that as time goes on, that things can and will fix themselves. I hope people can understand my point, because it's really hard to explain it properly  | ||
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On April 13 2011 22:23 fush wrote: no one said pro zergs aren't giving it their all. strategies take time to develop. how long had it been since the release of sc1 for bisu to come out with his pvz corsairs? how long til flash came out with the flash build? give it some time is all day9, tyler, and geoff have been saying. you can't cry imba before you've tried to open all the doors (as per tyler's analogy) tyler and geoff have a "history"? geoff came 4th in MLG 2 weeks ago. tyler talks and analyses this game like no other, if you actually took time off looking for things to complain about and listened to the show. the whole issue with your argument is that you think just because they appear busy or distracted means they don't put in the hours into not just practicing, but thinking about the game. and because they're successful despite your misinformed perception of them not practicing enough, you argue that the game is imbalanced? no... still doesn't make sense to me. So why have a balance team to begin with seriously, all this hypothetical mysterious x player will solve the match up is funny. Roach at armor2 with tunneling claws and 1 food raped protoss, was that not broken? or protoss with 15sec warpgate? couldn't that be solved by bisu too? also On April 07 2011 03:49 IdrA wrote: youd have to be retarded to think people whos livelihood depends on winning games arent trying to figure things out. but we've been trying since the second phase of the beta and nothing fucking works. | ||
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